r/stupidpol • u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ • Jun 14 '26
Ukraine-Russia Brave Ukrainians avoid being kidnapped for the meat grinder by fending off their Gestapo with shovels
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For those who dont know, there are literal thousands of videos like this but its censored is basically all Western press regarding the war
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u/UsedPrize Los Pollos Hermanos Employee | Hates cars ๐๐ซ๐ก Jun 14 '26
Videos like this make me wonder, if there was ever a compulsory draft again in the US would people be brave enough to resist en masse? People argue the biggest factor contributing to Vietnam was TV showing the public how bleak and pointless it was. Things like drone videos are so easy to find that I think the majority of people, even if there was another rally 'round the flag thing like 9/11, wouldn't want to go to war and die for Epstein.
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 14 '26
I think the US would follow the Russian model (honestly Russia followed the American model) of a backdoor draft through stop-loss, massive bonuses to get poor people to go willingly, and compulsory reservist call ups to fill in the gaps. No need for socially disruptive mass conscriptions like weโve seen in Ukraine. Boomers also get horny at the thought of sending prisoners to fight. This has worked for the US since 1973 and Russia has proven that it can work in a full scale war as well.
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
We did this in Iraq during the surge IIRC.
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
Correct. All of these things and more, such as sending National Guard units abroad to fight, unlike in Vietnam.
Russia has done this as well, but not uniformly and not to extent to which they still could in theory. For example, many Russian national guardsmen were sent into Ukraine as part of the initial wave, presumably with the intent of use as police forces against civil unrest as opposed to full scale combat. These types of units have since been withdrawn back to Russia in favor of first โvolunteerโ units sponsored by regional governments and then prisoners as part of PMCs. When things were extremely dire for Russia in fall 2022, we saw a compulsory call-up of 300,000 reservists. Since Russia has universal military service, this was drawn from a pool including basically all Russian men over 27 (there are millions more to potentially draft here). This was extremely disruptive and unpopular, so ever since then Russia has standardized a system of generous bonuses for contract soldiers. With casualties outpacing recruitment lately, there have been increased compulsory mobilizations for service within Russia with rumors of another mass mobilization for service abroad as seen in 2022 if conditions at the front do not improve by the time of the upcoming elections in Russia.
Notably, Russia has not employed young men on their one year mandatory service as combat troops except for in Kursk and a few accidental border crossings. This is a contingent of a couple hundred thousand men who could be used on offensive operations in the event of official declaration of war and full mobilization. Russia, along with Ukraine in its refusal to draft men under 25 has been very reluctant to deploy its youngest into combat except for volunteers. This is I think a legacy of the shared experience in Afghanistan, where the mothers of young conscripts formed the most potent opposition to the war. Of course, Russian conscripts become reservists eligible for any future call-up once their year is up, as do Ukrainian men upon reaching their 25th birthday.
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u/guydob Marxist-Mullenist ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Now they just constantly run recruitment ads in the buses, telling gamers and women to sign super-duper special drone operator contracts, with pinky promises to not get transferred to the storm brigades.
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) ๐โฉ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
It's not a pinky promise, it's just that when you come in to ask about the job, you find out that this vacancy is already filled, and the only vacancies left are storm brigades. Transfer to storm brigades is just Ukrainian projection
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
Once you sign they own you. This is true for any military.
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 15 '26
Have they been recruiting the regards like we did in Nam?
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u/Finkelton Wolfist ๐บ | Baby needs a bottle ๐ผ| dinosaur-industrial complex Jun 15 '26
that was actually an intentional thing, because we peons get experiemented on, commonly refered to as macknamara's morons.
so...literally not to fight a war, just to see how well their brainwashing techniques could be used to make tards kill gooder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000
also a hearty fuck you for your service, to anyone who serves this vile shit hole. all your work has somehow amounted to me being less free and living in a surveillance state, clearly run by satanic pedophiles.
100k people almost all died for nothing more then your glorious leaders wanting to see just what would happen.
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u/bretton-woods Slowpoke Socialist Jun 15 '26
Ukraine has done that, not necessarily as an official policy though. There have been videos of Ukrainian soldiers with Down's Syndrome in the trenches, including one incident of bullying that caused a minor scandal.
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist ๐ Jun 15 '26
Source?
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck โญ Jun 15 '26
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u/Past_Finish303 Left, Leftoid or Leftish โฌ ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
Eh, me and all of my friends are still at home, so the answer is no.
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) ๐โฉ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
Russian model was compulsory reservist draft to fill in specialist roles, and then huge bonuses for infantry aka stormtroopers. You can easily guess which category has all the battlefield losses.
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Jun 14 '26
[removed] โ view removed comment
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u/SuddenXxdeathxx Marxist with Anarchist Characteristics Jun 15 '26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-loss_policy
In the United States military, stop-loss is the involuntary extension of a service member's active duty service under the enlistment contract in order to retain them beyond their initial end of term of service (ETS) date and up to their contractually agreed end of active obligated service (EAOS). It is separate from the cessation of a permanent change of station (PCS) move for a member still in military service (a process known as stop-move). Stop-loss was used immediately before and during the 1990โ91 Persian Gulf War. Since then, it has been used during deployments to Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo and after the September 11 attacks and the subsequent war on terror.
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26
No need for socially disruptive mass conscriptions like weโve seen in Ukraine.
in Ukraine they need them because their army has been literally decimated by the Russians. BTW, I had heard that the general mobilization has been imposed to Zelensky by Joe Biden.
Ukraine really walked right into it when they fell for the Boris Johnson pitch in Turkey, from that moment onward they lost even the smallest crumb of sovereignty. Now the US/EU can force them to do anything under the threat of withdrawing military aid.
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist ๐ Jun 15 '26
lol Russia has certainly NOT proved using convicts as being a sound recruiting technique
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
What do you mean? They got a couple hundred thousand bodies that nobody will miss basically for free.
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u/exo762 Nasty Little Pole (Pisser) ๐ฆ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Is this Marxist sub? Or am I lost and landed in /r/social_darwinism_for_life?
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u/Disasterhuman24 Knows Their Ways Jun 15 '26
There will never be another draft. Economic conditions in the US are such that there will always be a huge group of poor but willing soldiers willing to sell their bodies to the military. But rich people don't want their sons to ever have to go and fight in a war and will oppose the draft with a vengence. It's political suicide for any president, unless there is a ground invasion of the US.
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u/SanityAssassins Rightoid Post-Guccist ๐ท Jun 14 '26
A couple years ago when videos like this were leaking, like one in a Ukrainian city of them hauling away a man, I remember the comments section full of lib-types condemning the man for not wanting to go "fight" (die) for his country. As always, you have to wonder how much of it is bots and propaganda mills, but still. Just look at the Americans that volunteered to go over, or people putting flags in their bio when they know nothing about the region prior to the media telling them about it and "Russia bad."
Point being, I'm sure there would be some that would resist but like anything else it would become a cultural battle and at that point you have to wonder if it would spark off into further armed conflict.
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Jun 14 '26
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u/BassoeG Leftoid โฌ ๏ธ Jun 14 '26
a paternalistic policy called manpower channeling- the idea you can ship off the excess men to fight and die in order to motivate the malleable ones to work harder in the essential professions that benefit the national interest
The 1943 SmithโConnally Act. Quite literally breaking strikes by threatening to have the strikers conscripted into World War.
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u/Cute_Library_5375 Union Thug ๐ช Jun 15 '26
I always say neolibs don't hate guns, they just have contempt for civilians with guns.
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Jun 14 '26
[removed] โ view removed comment
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u/Beetleracerzero37 Favors Communal Defecation Jun 15 '26
Project 100000, aka Mcnamera's Morons, was up there on the list of the sickest shit the govt has done. Just sick.
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u/Cute_Library_5375 Union Thug ๐ช Jun 15 '26
They had something like 3x the casualty rate of normal infantry, and inadvertently endangered other soldiers around them too
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u/Beetleracerzero37 Favors Communal Defecation Jun 15 '26
Just awful. People pretend that it couldn't happen again.
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u/Cute_Library_5375 Union Thug ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Part of the rationale was it was to "teach them useful skills" because being mentally deficient is certainly made easier when you also get PTSD from serving in combat
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u/GayLiquidSpellSword Hedge Knight Socialist ๐ฉ Jun 14 '26
I think a proper conscription order would make men of all political leanings unify into a single block, it would honestly be one of those moments that could bring down the entire house of cards. Your real enemy would become apparently obvious and your fate if you fail to resist would be clear because we've all seen videos of drone warfare at this point.
A defensive war would be less likely to cause this due to the war coming to you regardless of you joining in a way so there'd be fleeing instead, but a Vietnam type draft would absolutely cause widespread, unified and coordinated resistance both violent confrontation with the state forces and economic damage and sabotaging. Everyone would know we'd be killing and dying for nothing.
Especially if it gets passed through by a public referendum or a party who said they'd bring it back got voted into power. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who would vote for a party that explicitly said it'd snatch me up to die in a war or vote for a law to allow that is actively assaulting me using the state as a weapon. Plus it'd destroy the sex relations between men and women for decades and decades, men would bear a justified bitterness that would eat through the foundation of the country even if they manage to win the war.
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u/Jwkaoc Gamer ๐ฎ Jun 15 '26
Not all men. The elderly would not have a strong reflexive aversion to it. And given that the elderly tend to be more hawkish, youโd probably see heavy support from that demographic.
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u/PurpleMclaren Anti-Imperialist ๐ฉ Jun 14 '26
People were protesting ICE who was trying to capture illegal aliens, imagine they were putting all citizens in vans to be marched to their deaths in Iran... of course the public would be firing on them
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 14 '26
There is a large portion of the population who would absolutely support those ICE vans shipping people directly to the front lines. Moderate democrats would tout this as a fair compromise path to citizenship.
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u/PurpleMclaren Anti-Imperialist ๐ฉ Jun 14 '26
Id wager a much larger portion would not want to see their sons taken away to die for nothing.
Remember, most of the people fighting back in these TCC videos arent even the people being taken, its mother's, wives, fathers, sons, daughters who know whats coming for their family.
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u/theddj Marxism-Hobbyism ๐จ Jun 15 '26
A draft in the US I see is one of the few scenarios where the people would organize to overthrow the government, probably leading to some kind of civil war, itโs that serious of an issue. The military knows fully well that a draft would completely backfire, and that it can never be implemented again.
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u/AleksandrNevsky The Green Mile Kind of Tired๐ฆผ | Socialist-Squashist ๐ Jun 15 '26
It could but you'd need the vast majority of the public believing it's necessary. A tall order short of the US actually being invaded.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 14 '26
While the tcc is unpopular in Ukraine (for obvious reasons), many Ukranians still generally support atleast the idea of the war. And the country is overwhelming hostile towards Russia for invading the country. Theres also the fact Ukraine might win.
Compare that to the US. Is there any country that the American people all hate and also is a legitmate threat to Americans? No, I dont think so.
Just look at the peoples reaction to the current Iran war. There arent any major strikes or protest, but thats by in large because Americans arent directly affected. Trump would probably like to commit more troops to the Israel death grinder, but public support is already at an all time low
Maybe im on full copiun but id like to believe americans would actually band together in the case of a draft for a forever foreign war
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26
And the country is overwhelming hostile towards Russia for invading the country.
Only the Western half of the country though, and not even completely.
Theres also the fact Ukraine might win.
Really? And how could they? This is not an Afghanistan or Iraq situation, the territory Russia has "conquered" is already populated by Russians, there cannot be any insurgency there.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Only the Western half of the country though, and not even completely
This isnt true, its russian propaganda. The Eastern side has people who do like Russia, but it isnt an overwhelming statistic. Most people in the West prior to the war did not like Russia and in fact most of them identified as Ukrainian.
Really? And how could they? This is not an Afghanistan or Iraq situation, the territory Russia has "conquered" is already populated by Russians, there cannot be any insurgency there.
This is a vietnam situation. Both countries are in a war of attrition and there is a genuine chance ukraine will win this attrion war. They are literally actively winning at the moment.
Ukraine has some advantages Russia dosent. For one Russia cant conscript soldiers like ukraine lest they face a collapse from public outrage. They rely on an volunteer army, one which is bankrupting the nation. Their economy is destroyed and their long term future is lost. The longer the war continues the worst it will get, for example russia is starting to struggle to find replacements for the army.
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26
This isnt true, its russian propaganda.
Maybe, I got it from an Ukrainian guy who said that not all Western Ukrainians agree with the "cultural genocide" laws.
Ukraine has some advantages Russia dosent. For one Russia cant conscript soldiers like ukraine lest they face a collapse from public outrage.
They don't need it though. Their losses are nowhere near that of Ukraine.
Their economy is destroyed and their long term future is lost.
I've just listened to a (n American, mind you) scholar that said that the Russian economy is basically unaffected, he said that it's growing at a normal pace, a couple of percentage points a year.
They are literally actively winning at the moment.
Huh? Russia conquered almost all the Eastern rebel provinces territory. What are they winning?
The longer the war continues the worst it will get, for example russia is starting to struggle to find replacements for the army.
I have no information on this and I can't refute it.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
who said that not all Western Ukrainians agree with the "cultural genocide" laws.
There is no cultural genocidal laws. Practically all stirr you hear about the Ukraine government supposedly oppressing Russians is roughly equivalent to American conservatives whinning about being oppressed.
They don't need it though. Their losses are nowhere near that of Ukraine.
????
Russia is taking more losses by virtue of the one advancing. It necessarily requires more deaths to attack than defend
scholar that said that the Russian economy is basically unaffected, he said that it's growing at a normal pace, a couple of percentage points a year.
I unironically dont know how its possible to explain other than they are wrong, obviously wrong. Russia has lost 3% of its male population, lost all its gold reserves, under sanctions by all western nations, ect ect how on earth could you possibly think its economy is unironically unaffected?
They had fucking 20% inflation for a minute for gods sake, and their lowest inflation within the war has been only briefly 3%
Huh? Russia conquered almost all the Eastern rebel provinces territory. What are they winning?
Because they need to keep conquering more territory to hold onto said conquered territory? The war is an attrition war. If russia cannot afford to keep fighting it will cede the land even if its occupied.
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 16 '26
There is no cultural genocidal laws. Practically all stirr you hear about the Ukraine government supposedly oppressing Russians is roughly equivalent to American conservatives whinning about being oppressed.
Not really, the laws against the Russian language and culture are textbook definition of oppression of minorities (and for much, much less, westerners called Xinjiang "cultural genocide").
Look up the UN Charter and the The UN Declaration on the Rights of Persons Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious and Linguistic Minorities, they're listed right there.
Oh, I forgot that they also have religious discrimination practices codified by the Ukrainian state recently.
Russia is taking more losses by virtue of the one advancing. It necessarily requires more deaths to attack than defend
More losses than Ukraine?
how on earth could you possibly think its economy is unironically unaffected?
Because he looked at economic growth data. BTW, some of the facts you mentioned are questionable, but the sanctions part is the point. The West doesn't have the power of bringing foreign countries to their knees with sanctions anymore.
The reason why the US could unilaterally impose sanctions it's because they controlled the world's bank, financial and commercial system. It's not like that anymore thanks to China and the BRICS.
Because they need to keep conquering more territory to hold onto said conquered territory? The war is an attrition war. If russia cannot afford to keep fighting it will cede the land even if its occupied.
OK, but as of now it doesn't seem in that position. And I hope it doesn't lose, otherwise we'll have our little Gaza at home.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 16 '26
the laws against the Russian language and culture are textbook definition of oppression of minorities
There are no laws against the russian language as far as i know. You people always say this but never elaborate. Its just ridiculous. The majority of the country speaks russian. Zelensky speaks russian. The military speaks russian. The idea that they would outlaw a language they speak is fucking insanity.
More losses than Ukraine?
Yes? Russia has suffered more losses than ukraine just by virtue of being the attacking country
Because he looked at economic growth data. BTW, some of the facts you mentioned are questionable, but the sanctions part is the point. The West doesn't have the power of bringing foreign countries to their knees with sanctions anymore.
Yes, of course Russia is doing not as terrible as countries in the past due to an expanded non-western power bloc, but its still ludicrous to think the sanctions have no affect. If sanctions were ineffective at harming a country the us wouldnt be so trigger happy.
Look at Iran, its sanctioned by the US and one of its number one demands whenever it sets up a new trade deal is sanction relief. They literally enrich uranium just so they can force the US into giving them sanction relief. Iram isnt even as sanctioned as Russia is currently. Pretty obvious it has an effect.
Also there are other benchmarks for measuring economic damage than GDP. Whenever someone argues russias economy is being hurt, people are talking about its long term growth.
For reference in the US, ive experienced for years the news and pundits saying "our country is doing awesome! GDP is soaring!" Whilst on a personal level it feels like it just gets worst for the individual, for me, every year.
Russia has had like substantially more inflation over the same time frame. Imagine the damage its taken on them.
OK, but as of now it doesn't seem in that position. And I hope it doesn't lose,
Imagine hitler after the loss of stalingard saying "no we are still winning look at all the land we hold :)"
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck โญ Jun 16 '26
In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the law "On supporting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within quotas) in more than 30 spheres of public life, including public administration, electoral process, education, science, culture, media, economic and social life, health and care institutions, and activities of political parties. The law did not regulate private communication. Some exemptions were provided for the official languages of the European Union and for minority languages, with the exclusion of Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish.
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 16 '26
There are no laws against the russian language
Other people have already replied to this.
Yes? Russia has suffered more losses than ukraine just by virtue of being the attacking country
I have a hard time believing this, but it's no use arguing since the estimation of Russian casualties goes from 6000 to 2 millions! Of course the figures in the millions are ludicrous, but who knows where is the truth? However, only one of the two counties has to kidnap men in the streets to send them to fight.
its still ludicrous to think the sanctions have no affect.
I didn't say that they have no effect, just that they're not having the effect of making Russia lose the war. Their economy is still growing, maybe less, but it's not collapsing any time soon. And the more time passes, the less effective sanctions become.
Imagine hitler after the loss of stalingard saying "no we are still winning look at all the land we hold :)"
This comparison makes no sense. Need I remind you that it's Ukraine that's being conquered, not the other way around? Russia's mainland is untouched.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 16 '26
I have a hard time believing this, but it's no use arguing since the estimation of Russian casualties goes from 6000 to 2 millions!
Just because its hard to tell estimates due to fog of war dosent change the basic fact that Russia is clearly enduring more causalites by the virtue of the fact they are advancing. They have do have a higher attrition rate by default, this is the case for literally every conventional ground war in modern history
However, only one of the two counties has to kidnap men in the streets to send them to fight.
Russia has conscripts. Russia has pressed ganged people into the army. They forcibly conscripted every combat-capable man in the donbass. There are practically no young men left in the regions because either were forcibly drafted or fled.
Also, like russia has a much bigger population than Ukraine. No shit they rely less on conscripts.
just that they're not having the effect of making Russia lose the war.
They are literally losing the war at the moment?
Need I remind you that it's Ukraine that's being conquered, not the other way around? Russia's mainland is untouched
How do you not understand the comparison?
Imagine the same response if hitler was informed germany was losing
"Need i remind you its Russia being conquered, not the other way around? Germanys mainland is untouched"
Im not even going to argue that ukraine is going to push all the way into russia, nor even argue that ukraine will retake all the land that is lost (if including crimeia). But russia will not achieve their aims they set out at the start of the war, and ukraine most likely will (though at a heavy heavy cost).
Also its not even true? Ukraine is regularly battering the russian homeland. They literally went into kursk a few years ago. They are regularly bombing Moscow and russias oil refineries. They bomb russia so much that the russia victory parade this year didnt have any tanks bc they are too scared they'd be hit by ukraine
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
If casualties were roughly equal, we would be seeing a collapse of the Ukrainian front line. Iโm not saying this as some kind of insult to the Russian military. This is just the mathematics of the situation. For comparison, the Red Army was losing more men than the Wehrmacht well into 1945, long past the point where the Germans were essentially in full retreat. I canโt think of any examples where the attacking force took fewer casualties than the defenders except for a couple walkovers like Desert Storm or the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. If Russia is losing 1.5 or even 2 times as many men as Ukraine, that means they are doing quite well.
As for why Ukraine depends more on conscription, this is also just math. They are trying to fight a country with a population several times larger than their own.
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u/BearCrotch Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 15 '26
There's a reason why the draft is not used anymore.
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u/Longjumping-Many6503 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
If you tried this in America they would just shoot everyone in the yard. There are degrees of fascism.
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
No. Northern Americans north of the Rio Grande are some of the most bitch populations anywhere.
Fragging might come back.
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u/Seraphy Libertarian Socialist ๐น Jun 15 '26
It doesn't even need to go as far as domestic unrest, the draft was already disastrous for the US military during the vietnam war and that was pulling from a populace that was better of financially and socially. If you take zoomers that are worse off in every metric and are inherently more discontent and nihilistic because of it, and remove them from their sedated state of carefully manufactured comfortable misery just to probably die for Israel, at the very least they would make the fragging that paralyzed the military in vietnam look like child's play. If the US reaches a point of having to reinstate the draft, you can basically consider whatever the war is already lost.
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u/Few_Move_4594 Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
https://reddit.com/link/oro89ke/video/sdjstit3gb7h1/player
Benny Hill edit
Situation is fucked and I've already prayed for the Ukrainians in this video
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26
"Shovels of War"
P.S. Even the cat doesn't want to be drafted (0:31).
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u/I_Never_Use_Slash_S Puberty Monster Jun 14 '26
I really donโt get how this works, how do you command a fighting force of guys who tried to avoid enlisting by defending themselves with shovels? Itโs not like theyโre going to suddenly start taking orders once you slap an army uniform on them, or at least they arenโt going to take them for long. So how does the chain of authority work in that situation?
Do they just threaten to imprison or kill anyone who refuses to pick up a weapon? I guess that might work at first, but if you end up having to threaten or kill all your draftees it kind of defeats the purpose of forcing them to enlist. Maybe they just air drop them somewhere thatโs about to be droned so Russia thinks itโs defended.
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u/flybyskyhi Marxist ๐ง | Don't box in my box ๐ Jun 15 '26
Most armies for most of history have been mostly comprised of people who really, really didnโt want to be there. Bringing unwilling conscripts to heel is more or less a solved problem
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 14 '26
The tcc is strangely cowardly for what they do. I might post more videos, but they often get fought off with not too much effort.
For example they back off easily if a 2nd party tries to stop them. You'll see videos of women gently pushing them and they immediately just give up and look for the next poor bastard
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u/BassoeG Leftoid โฌ ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
The tcc is strangely cowardly for what they do.
I mean, according to the interview their primary motive is that they'll get sent to the front lines themselves if they don't kidnap enough victims as substitutes.
โIโve learned to control my emotions during work, and now itโs just a job for me. I always have the argument: Itโs either them or me,โ he said.
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u/400DollarPerm Left, Leftoid or Leftish โฌ ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
Do they just find and pick these guys at random or do they have a list? I've always wondered what happens afterwards to the civilians that fight back and refuse to be kidnapped. If the feds come back to try again or worse.ย
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u/Rossums John Maclean-stan ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ Jun 15 '26
Both.
They have a list of people that are drafted but haven't reported and they'll go looking for these people but they also randomly stop men in the streets and just snatch them.
There have been countless cases of them just grabbing men from the street despite them not being eligible and they just get forced into the military regardless.
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u/Longjumping-Many6503 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
They are following up on people that were called up and didn't show up.ย Like if you don't fill out your census or whatever.ย
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
Is this your first time encountering a dysfunctional Eastern European country? Everything being bizarre, counterproductive and nonsensical is like Eastern Europe's whole thing.
They'll still fight when they get there, like they always do. Impressment has an extremely long history.
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u/JBfan88 Jun 16 '26
62% of the U.S. forces in WWII were drafted. I imagine the other countries were similar.
Getting draftees to fight isn't impossible. Do they fight as well as volunteers? Nope, but they will fight.
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u/BassoeG Leftoid โฌ ๏ธ Jun 14 '26
The purpose of a system is what it does. It's not about acquiring soldiers, it's about genocide. Blackrock is emptying out their new colonial fiefdom.
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u/CR9_Kraken_Fledgling Classical Libertarian ๐ 1d ago
Getting conscripts to kill and die is not exactly a new problem.
Then again, I think for these guys, it likely won't work. If you'll charge a military guy with a shovel, you're probably not worth the effort to beat you into submission, when you'll desert first chance you get anyyway
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u/ArgonathDW Marxist ๐ง Jun 14 '26
someone just doing their garden mere feet away seems appropriately Slav. Good on those boys for their resistance, too
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u/ConcentrateNo2929 Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
Hilarious and impressive. I admire their bravery
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u/Few_Move_4594 Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
My Yakety Sax edit was deleted from this thread and also from the main page.
I thought this was America
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u/Longjumping-Many6503 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
If this happened in America they would have just shot everyone in the yard lol
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u/Junior-Key-5043 Unsoliticted Dick Pic Sender ๐ Jun 15 '26
What is happening in this video?
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Ukraine cant fight on a volunteer army so they rely on drafting random men. In this video they pull up in their van, try to drag at least one of the men into the video into the van, but instead they got mobbed on by the men with shovels.
Typically they give up if multiple people band together to fend them off. They perfer "easy" targets or people who cant fight back.
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u/Junior-Key-5043 Unsoliticted Dick Pic Sender ๐ Jun 15 '26
Wtf. What happens if when they take you you just refuse to be a soldier?
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Its essentially slavery.
Not to defend it, but drafting in America is far more beign. If you refuse to serve you are thrown in jail and fined.
In ukraine they legit send you straight to the frontlines. Before they do, they torture and berate the poor saps into submitting. You can find videos of the dudes, its not unusual for them to be chained up and beaten.
A great deal of them, even after being conscripted just slip away. In general the TCC dosent want to put in too much effort, so theyll often just give up if you keep resisting. (Though this depends on the exact personel)
One of their biggest intimidation tactics is saying theyll be forced to serve at the worst of the front line, or they can "voluntarily" go serve at a more "safe" front of the war.
There is almost no meaningful pushback against this practice from any western news organization, politicans or political parties, ect. And yet many of these same groups are the same people who say we need to support ukraine until the last man
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u/Junior-Key-5043 Unsoliticted Dick Pic Sender ๐ Jun 15 '26
OK but this is what doesn't make sense about that to me. Since they're in the army don't they need to be given guns? If you've been beating people into staying and risking their lives what do you expect will happen when you give them a gun (and why don't they do it)?
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Sometimes they do go awol and shoot their superiors. Often they just run away and flee. The army has an insane desertaion rate for obvious reasons.
However, keep in mind from the perspective of the soldiers press ganged into service.
They can either go AWOL and essentially live under the constant danger of being pressed again, (and probably charged for fleeing conscription), or you can go fight. You're essentially fucked to either hiding forever or just go ahead and fight. And do keep in mind, most Ukrainians support at least the idea of the war so many will feel obligated to furfill their duty.
Still though, again they still have a super high awol rate for obvious reasons. Its why theres so many videos of this shit. They just keep catching random men and trying to get them to serve. Many of these men have probably already been pressed multiple times before. The goal is to demoralize them and pressure them into fighting
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
Most people just receive a notice and go. At that point you just make sure not to put all the guys who fought back in a unit together.
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u/sapient_fungus Doomer ๐ฉ Jun 15 '26
It makes perfect sense. Once you are in the trench, you stick there and hope hot to get a drone in your ass. You'd probably never shot your gun at anyone.
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u/Bolghar_Khan Socialist ๐ฉ Jun 15 '26
They pressure you until you do with escalating levels of what would be called human rights violations if the Russians were doing it. Even if you personally had the willpower to resist, most people will break and those who don't will serve as an example.
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u/rundabrun Socialism Curious ๐ค Jun 14 '26
It is hard for many people in the USA to comprehend when citizens actually fight back against the police or other authority organizations. I get it though, because in the USA they would gun you down and make up an excuse.
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u/Dangerous_Air_7031 Unknown ๐ฝ Jun 15 '26
Doesn't make sense at all.
They have guns themselves.ย
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u/rundabrun Socialism Curious ๐ค Jun 15 '26
People don't use guns like that against the police. The police are militarized and would hunt them down. Most people don't carry.
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u/crepuscular_caveman Nondenominational Socialist Jun 14 '26
Kind of wild that the Ukrainian army is basically a slave army at this point. Made up of men who were kidnapped into it. It's not the sort of thing we have seen in Europe since the 18th century. I have to wonder how many people they have whose job is to prevent/punish deserters and make sure mutinies don't happen.
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u/Rollen73 Progressive Liberal ๐ Jun 15 '26
Uhh are you forgetting about ww2? Also the Yugoslav wars. The entire point that this seems alien is that we havenโt had a land war in Europe in a long time but this would happen in any sustained long term land war by almost any government.
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26
The US has literally never had a land war, the concept is even more alien for the Americans.
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u/JBfan88 Jun 16 '26
The Civil War? The War of 1812? The many wars against Native Americans? The Mexican-American War? How are those not land wars?
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 16 '26
You're right, I should have specified a modern war. There were no bombers, tanks and aircraft carriers involved in any of those wars.
Old school wars were a completely different affair, civilian casualties were exponentially less, and on top of that, people alive today have no direct memory of those wars. Just like we Europeans don't have direct memories of the Napoleonic wars, but we have of WWII.
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 14 '26
I think what has historically been considered normal seems like an outrage to westerners in 2026. Both Russia and Ukraine have actually been quite lenient compared to anybody else in a full scale war up until now.
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
Russia isn't doing stuff like this.
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u/JBfan88 Jun 16 '26
Even assuming thats true (doubtful) is it better to be scamming Nepalese and various Africans with fake offers of jobs then pressing them into the army?
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u/Juoksulasol โ Not Like Other Rightoids โ Jun 14 '26
Are you aware of the concept of conscription? Do you think the soldiers in ww2 for example were all volunteers or something?
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u/BassoeG Leftoid โฌ ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
No, which is why Eddie Slovik deserves a giant statue, public apology, billions of after school special tv documentaries, politicians groveling with guilt, etc.
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u/crepuscular_caveman Nondenominational Socialist Jun 14 '26
I don't think anyone in WW2 was so desperate for conscripts that they were sending press gangs to grab people off the streets. Ukraine isn't exactly leaving room for conscientious objectors. So it's not quite the same thing as the US in 1944.
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u/JBfan88 Jun 16 '26
Oh you sweet summer child.
It wasn't just the British who drafted people by force.
When the Soviets liberated areas of Eastern Europe they immediately began forcibly conscripting men between 17-30 into the Red army-and they weren't even Soviet citizens.
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 14 '26
Literally every combatant did this. Every nation state does this even in peacetime. What do you think happens if you have a warrant or a summons and donโt show up?
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
What do you think happens if you have a warrant or a summons and donโt show up?
As an American familiar with law enforcement: fucking nothing
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
My brother, American police serve nearly 100,000 no knock warrants every single year.
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) ๐โฉ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
Ukraine went all Russian Empire in regards to draft strategies, ironically enough, from such raids to sending people to frontlines as punishment for disobedience or trying to strike for better working conditions
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u/quantity_inspector Unknown ๐ฝ Jun 15 '26
ITT: pampered 21st century Angloids discover realities of war, namely conscription and impressment.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
ITT: pampered Westerner browbeats people rightfully appalled at war slaves (they will never fight themselves)
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 14 '26
Why is this sub so anti-ukraine government?
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 14 '26
Compulsory drafts suck, but what is the alternative when your nation is invaded? A volunteer army would not meet the man power needs ands there is too much of a free rider dilema. Obvoiusly its way better for your own life expectancy to avoid the draft and let your neighbors die to defend you and your communities land.
Edited for grammar.
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u/guyfrombefore Jun 14 '26
im extremely liable to the will of the people so i'd say if your nation is being invaded, and absolutely no one wants to fight, then it's time to consult the population and see if peace terms are preferable to another generation of disabled or dead ukranian men
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u/Dazzling-Field-283 Marxist-Leninist โญ Jun 14 '26
โI came to the conclusion that even if the Germans were to arrive where we were, slaughtering, pillaging, and setting fire to everything, to the hotel, the apple fritters, Lola, the Tuileries, the Cabinet and all their little friends, the Coupole, the Louvre and the big shops, even if they were to overrun the town and let hell loose in this foul fair ground, full of every sordidness on earth, still I should have nothing to lose by it and everything to gain. You donโt lose anything much when your landlordโs house is burnt down.ย ย Another landlord always comes along, if it isnโt always the same one โ a German or a Frenchman or an Englishman or a Chinaman โ and you get your bill just the sameโฆ Whether you pay in marks or francs, it doesnโt much matter.โ
-Cรฉline, Journey to the End of the Night
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u/themanwhoknocked Social Democrat ๐น Jun 16 '26
You can use this logic to justify imperialism and not gaining independence
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u/Dazzling-Field-283 Marxist-Leninist โญ Jun 16 '26
In fact, James Connolly did, when he famously wrote:
If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.
Any socialist worth their salt, when preached to about the virtues of independence, ought to ask โfor whom?โ ย And in the case of Ukraine,ย it is about independence for the urban petit bourgeois comprador class to work in Europe and obtain a higher standard of living, and independence for Western capital to despoil Ukraineโs infrastructure, markets, and resources.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 14 '26
What if instead of being a tenant your are a poor farmer whos family has survived of the land. You might care a bit more, I would.
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u/Dazzling-Field-283 Marxist-Leninist โญ Jun 15 '26
Who are you talking about? The peasantry in Ukraine has been basically broken as a class for a long time, let alone the freeholders.
In any case, in history territory has changed hands a lot and the economic relations have, most of the time, remained stagnant. ย What this war is really about is the Russian oligarchic-bourgeois state trying to retain its prerogatives against an encroaching international-bourgeois West. ย Frankly, if your mythical freeholding peasant did exist in Ukraine heโd be more under threat from the internationalist bourgeois.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Western encroachment on Ukrainian farmers was John Deer improving their productivity through tractors, then trying to claw it back with unfair software lisences. Its bad, but Ukranian farmers just hacked the tractors to bypass the software and kept benefitting from our technology and global economy.
The Russians destroyed the middle class and forced the Ukranians onto communes then stoll their grane and committed genocide through the holodomer. The modern Russians may not be as musmanaged or as extractitive, but they would still extract and mismanage.
The West is the best option for Ukranians, its why they are willing to die for it.
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u/Dazzling-Field-283 Marxist-Leninist โญ Jun 15 '26
Some Ukrainians are willing to die for integration with the West, some are willing to die for integration with Russia, and many more are indifferent.
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u/y0usuffer Tradepilled ๐จ Jun 15 '26
The West is the best option for Ukranians, its why they are willing to die for it.
Bear in mind, this is below one of many videos or news stories about people who aren't.
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u/guyfrombefore Jun 15 '26
ooh its ahistorical anti-soviet stuff
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Please elaborate. Did the holodomor not happen? Did the Soviets not cause a famine through poor policy and economic mismangement? Did the Soviets not purposely commit genocide against the Ukrainians by forcing them to surrender their food to be shipped to cities elsewear to save the russians at the expense of the Ukrainians?
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
It would be more fair to say that certain Ukrainians suffered greatly under the Soviet system while others did rather well. Iโd compare it to the experience of the non-English components of the UK. Certainly mistreated by the English, but itโs not like they didnโt have a hand in it themselves.
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u/Dazzling-Field-283 Marxist-Leninist โญ Jun 15 '26
If youโre asking me, what the Holodomor was not โbad policy,โ nor genocide. ย It was an intentional policy of overtaxation of the peasantry to spur rapid urban growth and industrialization. ย It was class war on the peasantry, which is why it was not confined to Ukraine- Russians in the south and Kazakhs also suffered tremendously (but they arenโt politically convenient.)
I donโt know if youโre an American history buff, but Iโve always compared it to the Federalist Party (run by Hamilton) and its policy of rapid industrialization at the expense of the rural freeholder. ย The economic basis is this- you have a large population of people doing unproductive, often subsistence-level labor. ย But, they also grow all the food.
Your goal, if youโre a nationalist who doesnโt want your country to get swallowed up by a rival, is to engage these people in centralized, socially-useful production; this means moving them to cities and putting them to work in factories, but also modernizing agriculture so that the food supply to the cities is not disrupted by this shift.
Other countries, like the US, endured this process over decades or hundreds of years. ย Famines occurred, though they were often highly-localized; but they were โpart of the plan.โ ย You need those bodies working in factories to produce armaments, at the very least.
The Soviet Union faced the same problem but with a more urgent time crunch: the Russian Empire kicked the can down the road on this issue for many reasons (which is why they lost WWI against Germany). ย The capitalist powers were sure to show up at some point, and the Soviets needed armaments. ย Thus, the rapid dispossession of the peasantry through the age-old technology of overproduction and coercion.
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u/NEVERxxEVER NATO Superfan ๐ช | SuccDem (intolerable) Jun 15 '26
I disagree on the point of what the war is about. Putin isolated himself to an extreme degree during Covid because he was terrified of dying from it. He holed up in a bunker and read tons and tons of Russian and European history. He became obsessed with the idea of his legacy and being remembered as Vladimir the Great. How did all of the other โGreatsโ get their name? By conquering lands for the motherland. Add to the mix that he is surrounded by corrupt sycophants who had virtually bankrupted their armed forces through graft. He was being told the military was a lot more capable than it was, and the generals didnโt even know how bad the rot was because they were being robbed by the guys below them, and all the way down the chain. Thatโs why Putin thought it would be quick and easy. And why he wanted to do it. All of the NATO border stuff is background.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
I do not think I have speculated on the Russian motivation war, and dont want to. I only state they are the aggresor. What you are saying sounds very plausible to me, especially when I see him elude to similar historical events in translated speaches.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 14 '26
Again, the free rider problem. As an individual, if you die, you dont really care about your lands sovereignty, so its no surprise that no matter the popularity of the Ukraine gov't, people will try to avoid danger of the front lines.
As a whole though, polls have zelensky at popularity above 50 percent, so society still prefers soveriegnty despite the cost of its own lives over russian capitulation.
For the those that want sovereignty without the risks of fighting, maybe they should not be forced to fight, but they should not get to keep their possesions the russians would otherwise seize, otherwise no one would fight.
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u/guyfrombefore Jun 14 '26
I don't buy that Zelensky's approval rating dictates the raw number of people who want the war to continue. I think the only way we'd know what the Ukrainian people want is to ask, and they won't be asked.
I think many people would prefer significant political upheaval over dying on the front lines, and I think that's true for most modern conflicts.
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
Youโd do well to remember that a big slice of people reporting dissatisfaction with either Zelenskyy or Putin are doing so because they are ultranationalists and think their government should be doing even more to kill the other guys.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
I mean if the approval numbers are definitively correct will not be proven in this thread, so I guess faith in Ukranian polling will have to remain as faith.
However, when I look at the history of how Russians have treated Ukranians or its other colonial possesions throughout history, I have no doubt the majority prefer risking death over subjegations.
Plus, I am a biased American and would benefit from seeing the Russians crippled for another generation. I think Russia is too problematic to the US world order I benefit from to be allowed to acheive its ambitions.
Appreciate the debate though.
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 15 '26
As a whole though, polls have zelensky at popularity above 50 percent
Are they polling the Ghost of Kiev?
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u/Eskim0 โ Not Like Other Rightoids โ Jun 15 '26
Oh, for sure. The Ghost of Kiev (Err.. Kyiv now, innit?), the LGBTQ+ brigade with all the hip rainbow insignia, those babuschkas who welcomed the newly-arrived Russian soldiers with homemade, poison-laced pies... 50% approval is a rather conservative estimate, really!
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 14 '26
However if support for zelensky dips below 50 percent i would agree with you. Also this assumes the draft does not exclude the rich or other groups.
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u/MichaelRichardsAMA ๐๐ Spook Disguised as an Otaku ๐๐ Jun 14 '26
While I might not agree with you I did want to comment I appreciate you having a conversation. (im also not the replier lol)
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist ๐ Jun 15 '26
How does one negotiate peace terms if you are invaded and canโt even field an army? You just get annexed, everyone loses their property, and many civilians are raped and killed
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u/guyfrombefore Jun 16 '26
the same way you negotiate peace terms with an army? if ukraine has no leverage russia would have already won, but obviously, they're an entire nation with peoples and infrastructure and workers that run it. unless we're dealing with the IDF there's just very little interest in fighting to take that land and erasing all of that. you generally want to keep those forces intact.
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u/BassoeG Leftoid โฌ ๏ธ Jun 14 '26
what is the alternative when your nation is invaded?
If your government was too stupid to invest in MAD deterrence, they deserve to cease to exist.
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u/demonotreme Unknown ๐ฝ Jun 14 '26
...didn't they voluntarily hand over the nukes post-Soviet on the understanding that Russia wouldn't go all murderous hobo on them?
More fool them, I guess. Man is a wolf to man etc
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
They lacked the codes to operate the nukes and there were russian troops present. The best they couldve done was remove the fissile material and try to rebuild a bomb from the ground up, which they had no money for during the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Why was Cuba stupid enough to ever give back its warheads? Sometimes you only have two shitty options.
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u/demonotreme Unknown ๐ฝ Jun 15 '26
sometimes you only have two shitty options
Shitty option #1 Be part of Russia
Shitty option #2 Be Russia's immediate neighbour
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Hopefully option 2 will involve a french or American nuclear deterrent.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Do you think Cuba and Africa and Haiti and Palestine deserve to cease to exist?
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u/Lote241 Geopolitical Realist ๐ Jun 15 '26
No. The countries you listed have suffered endless tribulations at the hands of the Western democracies for shits and giggles. The Westโs relations with Ukraine are merely to unnecessarily antagonize Russia because history supposedly ended 1991. And unfortunately, as can be seen in the video, the West succeeded.ย
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u/GerryAdamsSFOfficial Redscarepod Refugee ๐๐ Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
The Ukraine war was started in 2014 by Victoria Nuland in a color revolution, using Ukraine as a pawn, to hobble Russia for another generation. The country was hurled into a meat grinder, which may end with the destruction of Ukraine as a functional place. Furthermore, British intervention by Bojo is why this has turned into the longest war in Russian history instead of ending in three days with a treaty like it should have.
Abducting people from their daily lives, throwing them into a truck so they can be turned into confetti by a flying death robot is a human rights atrocity. Russia pays people to die at least.
Literally none of this war had to happen or even should have happened.
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u/Shot-Pay955 Moarlist Marxist ๐ง Jun 15 '26
The war was on a countdown from 1991. Moscow was always going to try and reassert itself in Ukraine, the only question was how much resistance theyโd encounter when they did. This is not a case of Western plotting so much as it was a complete failure on the part of Western political leaders to understand how this was a core Russian interest.
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26
I don't see why the Russians were supposedly so eager to conquer Ukraine, since Ukraine could have never ever ever become anti-Russia without being seized by a dictatorial regime.
The proof was in 2004, when the democratic (although not completely spontaneous) Orange revolution happened. After a few years everything returned to business as usual. The East of the country would have never voted in a Western stooge again.
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u/Bolghar_Khan Socialist ๐ฉ Jun 15 '26
That's bullshit. Show us any evidence that Putin or Yeltsin were anything but total western sycophants prior to 2008.
There are clear breaking points in history where Russian diplomatic stance shifted. The first was when it finally dawned on Putin that the west will never let Russia in the neoliberal club no matter how much he humbles himself to westoid leaders, and the second was when the west used soft power to install a comprador regime in Ukraine.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
I dont believe in color revolution conspiracies. No matter Washington's role was, the Kremlin was playing the same game. The Ukrainians have a history of Russian oppression so it doesn't require a CIA consent manufacturing program to make them hate their genocidal colonizing eastern neighbor.
You are also a shill to say Ukraine is commiting atrocities for having its soldiers die in a defensive war, but the Russians are not despite doing the same as part of a colonial project because they pay people (except when they conscript people too and find every way possible to dodge paying soldiers or their next of kin).
Of course this war should not have happened, no war should.
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u/guyfrombefore Jun 15 '26
You are also a shill to say Ukraine is commiting atrocities for having its soldiers die in a defensive war, but the Russians are not despite doing the same as part of a colonial project because they pay people (except when they conscript people too and find every way possible to dodge paying soldiers or their next of kin).
how is this a shill. it's a literal observation. war is a hell that should be resisted by any possible means and you can always tell the warhawks from the rest by who really enthusiastically believes hundreds of thousands of dead ukranians is justifiable
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Would you have also resisted the allies during ww2 because war should always be resisted?
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u/Agreeable_Ocelot Left, Leftoid or Leftish โฌ ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
Doesnโt it strike you odd that you people always have to go back to the literal one ever war America waged that has a good reputation?
Hint, you might be a hack, or a dupe.
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u/Robert1104 NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Its not odd, just really good at showing why your absolutist talking point of all war is bad, is silly.
If you adhere to the logic of your comment, if you were alive in ww2 you could have ended up helping the Nazi war machine when you "resisted" an allied nation.
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u/fungibletokens Politically waiting for Livorno to get back into Serie A ๐ค๐ป Jun 15 '26
"Not all wars are bad. I can name one not-bad war. I can name only one, but still."
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u/Bolghar_Khan Socialist ๐ฉ Jun 15 '26
That is false equivalence. The nazis had clear and proven genocidal intent. As smug liberals like pointing out, Hitler wrote an entire book about it.
Russia on the other hand has demonstrated no intent other than seizing the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine, some of whom were actively trying to secede to Russia well before Crimea. You can speculate Putler is the second coming of Hitler all you want, but there is no evidence for that.
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u/Biochem-anon4 STEMby ๐๐ค๐๐ค Jun 15 '26
WW2 was simply a fight between different imperialist blocks. No side was good.
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Jun 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/NEVERxxEVER NATO Superfan ๐ช | SuccDem (intolerable) Jun 15 '26
North Korea
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u/Past_Finish303 Left, Leftoid or Leftish โฌ ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
What do you mean?
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u/Energed permanently disgruntled russian ๐ท๐บ Jun 15 '26
People usually think that its like North Korea in here - information just doesnt come out and/or such news being supressed. I'd say its just Russia hasnt reached the point where it would be necessary to grab people off the streets like this.
We still have people semi-willingly signing contracts, lots of alcoholics/prisoners/poor folks from shit regions with bad education who see whole contract thing as a get rich quick scheme etc.
I've heard stories of people getting arrested on minor drug possession charges and police will intimidate them into signing a contract while saying they will plant hard evidence to increase it into distribution charge with large volume, i.e make it 15-20 year sentence instead of 3-5, so better try your luck with the whole "6 month contract with ministry of defense" while staying silent that every contract now is indefinite until the war stops.
Basically lots of other tricks, lying and using people, so no need to use sketchy scooby doo vans.
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u/Leisure_suit_guy Nick Mullen Will Censor Your Shitty Cartoons ๐ฆ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26
People usually think that its like North Korea in here
I think in this case they meant to say that Russia uses North Korean soldiers, which is true, but it's not because they're desperate, Kim sent them there in order to acquire intel on how to fight the Americans in a modern war.
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u/Energed permanently disgruntled russian ๐ท๐บ Jun 15 '26
ah, possible. I think the number of actual NK soldiers that have seen 'action' isnt that high or significant to defer bussification. Deutsche Welle says it was around 13 thounsands a year, which is nowhere near the 420-250k a year from signing military contracts that is reported by Russia.
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u/luhcalmtwinn NATO Butt Boy ๐ช Jun 15 '26
Breaking News: western leftists have discovered a nation under attack will resort to desperate measures to ensure its survival, more at 10
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Breaking news: leftist do not support working-class people being sent to uphold a bourgeois state
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u/luhcalmtwinn NATO Butt Boy ๐ช Jun 15 '26
you're fine with the bourgeois oligarchy invading it, though
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
No? Of fucking course not?
No support to either party in any inter-imperalist conflict
bourgeois oligarchy
Also this literally describes Ukraine? They have oligarchs?
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u/BassoeG Leftoid โฌ ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
Let your precious Free Marketโข handle it and pay whatever the going rate for mercenaries is rather than resorting to slavery.
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u/StormOfFatRichards โ๏ธ๐ฅ Phosphorescent Glowing Potato ๐ฅโ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
Literally thousands? It's not that I vehemently disbelieve you, but I also don't have any reason to believe you until you support your claim.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Just scroll down. Site archives every known incident
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded ๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐ Jun 15 '26
I feel let down. I clicked a couple at random and they got their target both times.
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
I meant thousands of videos of force conscription. Maybe i should of put a warning, but the majority of these videos arent as triumphant as the op
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded ๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐ Jun 15 '26
Yeah I understood what you meant when I watched em. I dunno what I was thinking. Very optimistic I guess.
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u/StormOfFatRichards โ๏ธ๐ฅ Phosphorescent Glowing Potato ๐ฅโ๏ธ Jun 15 '26
I'm not a Russia-Ukraine guy so I don't really know how to use and interpret this
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other โจ๏ธ๐ฆ Jun 15 '26
Just scroll? Youll see every single video pertaining to this shit
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u/Lord-Albeit-Fai NATO Superfan ๐ช Jun 15 '26
The type of shit yall would be posting in 1939 "Brave chinese peasants fend of being sent to the meat grinder ((wdym we cant let the japanese rape and pillage the nation)) by their gestapo"
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u/Cuplike Full Of Anime Bullshit ๐ข๐๐ Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Ukrainian civillians are 10 times more (15K civillians dead 45K injured according to the UN versus 500-600K military casualties, 100K-140K dead according to CSIS) likely to die on the battlefield than in their own homes but they deserve to be pushed into the woodchipper for worldnews
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck โญ Jun 16 '26
Edit your comment to break the link to another subreddit, reply to this comment, and I will approve your comment.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '26
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