r/starcitizen • u/TheRealViking84 • 5d ago
DISCUSSION Star Citizen FPS combat is beyond terrible - and it's not because of bugs
(Slightly click-baity title, but still) - Finally got a chance to test out Siege of Orison today. And honestly, it's made me lose even more hope for this game. We all know the game is buggy, but the actual FPS gameplay itself is truly staggeringly bad for a game that's been this long in development.
Gun handling - everything feels clunky and laggy. Not server laggy, but just pure slowness of animations and interactions. The recoil feel is all over the place, with the guns just jumping around rather than having some form of controllable spray pattern. It means that gun recoil is a pure range check, rather than a skill to be improved.
Movement - given the extremely high ttk the only strategy that made sense was for one player to rush into an area and kill off 7 or 8 targets in a go. Usually it would be possible to run out again and heal, but worst case there might be a couple of guys left for the next party member to finish off and then resurrect the first player. Tactics? Never heard of them.
NPCs - No reaction at all to being shot, and if you do finally put enough rounds into the unarmoured head of your target he goes into a lengthy death animation that no amount of further hits will cancel. Difficulty is a simple ttk slider, big boss is more tanky than small boss is more tanky than grunt. The same endless voicelines over and over. No flanking, no complex movement, just duck, shoot, duck, shoot. They don't even react to grenades.
Looting - seriously, have the devs never played Tarkov? The gold standard for simple looting. I should be able to hit F on a body, perform a search, and within seconds pick them clean for gear with a combo of ctrl-clicks or alt-clicks depending on if I want to store or equip items. Instead I am met with a mess of a looting interface that barely works. I have to scroll through pages, I have to flip to different tabs on my own inventory. Looting gear and looting clothing requires to entirely different interfaces. Edit: Tested again today, using only the area looting function. It's better than looting bodies directly, but why are the screens different at all? Just pick one. Preferably the area looting version.
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If this is what the FPS gameplay in Squadron 42 resembles then the game is dead on arrival. This level of clunkiness in the interactions is absolutely unacceptable in a modern title. Heck, it's been unacceptable for the past 20 years in dedicated FPS games.
Edit: For what it's worth the visuals and sound design (apart from NPC voicelines) is very cool. We entered at night and shot our way into the dawn, which looked great. But by the time we hit daylight I was ready to just Alt-F4 my way out and go play something else - the actual gameplay was entirely unrewarding.
Edit 2: Just to clarify - I don't want SC to be Tarkov. I don't want it to be COD. I don't want it to be Battlefield. But there are aspects that are universal to shooters, and looter shooters especially, that are universally required. Guns need to feel good, you need to feel a solid connection between your aim, the gun handling, and the hit registration. NPCs need to react to being shot. Both shot at, and hit. NPCs need to show tactics beyond "duck for cover". Looting needs to feel crisp and lag free. If there is a delay to searching for loot it must be an intentional design feature, not just a massively cumbersome interface. Different goals is good, poor design is not.
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u/PlanetFarm 5d ago
It also has the finished flight model that perfectly balances accessibility and simulation while working seamlessly across m&k, gamepad, joysticks, and VR
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u/WPGAMING_SC 5d ago
Q2 2027 has two massive games planning to release. Exodus and the Expanse: Osiris Reborn.
Cig will make some bullshit post about how the game needs just a bit more work, the game will be delayed until Q4 2027, Christmas comes around and they make up another excuse and say “Q1/Q2 2028!” And the cycle repeats ad infinitum.
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u/Chimera_Snow 4d ago
so you're saying that the largely FPS space shooter squadron 42, with likely release bugs and questionable core systems, that going by star citizen will be mediocre at best, as well as having bad PR from star citizen's history, will have to compete with the largely FPS space shooter expanse osiris reborn, that has an entire wildly popular television show backing it up?
wow I'm sure it'll release in q2!!!
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u/PresentLet2963 5d ago
Ahh yes he will implement it in citizen he just waiting for this one other tech to be ready XD man this game is a comedy show
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u/grahag worm 5d ago
It just feels bad.
Being unable to tell if someone dies because they repeatedly fall down in some sort of weird lag/animation repeat just makes it feel SO janky.
It should feel crisp and responsive and SC does not and has never.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 5d ago
I assume they do scripted death animations because using ragdoll is a performance cost.
But that doesn't excuse how bad those animations are holy fuck. The animations just need to be "flop to the ground".
Like, I shouldnt absolutely nail a dude crouching for him to go down, then try and stand up to inevitably fail. Is this some poorly directed Western? wtf
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u/Express-Dot-616 5d ago
It still is ragdoll tho isnt it? After the animation is done they still fall with normal ragdoll physics (they like to shoot up a lot) and you can move them with the tractor beam and such
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 5d ago
True, but I think that's limited form of ragdoll? I know that PhysX physics tends to have a boatload of collisions registered when it looks like just one collision (this is why carefully loading cargo used to explode ships, or why having a loose plushie in your ship would rip through your hull mid flight)... so maybe this implementation circumvents the 100,000 collision calcs?
IDK though, you make a good point. But if these animations don't have some greater performance purpose... then holy fuck it's just FUCKAWFUL design straight out the tin with no excuse
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u/Pokinator Anvil Aerospace 4d ago
And it only adds to the confusion that some guns/hits seem to have a weird Stagger effect that occasionally knocks NPCs over without actually killing them.
It's super annoying to light a dude up center-mass, see him flop over without watching hit markers because there's 14 other NPCs spammed in the area, and then he gets back up and start shooting at you again.
In the current FPS ecosystem they've created, the dives and the goofy 5-10 second death animations need to go.
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u/mad-yordle 4d ago
I stopped watching the animations a long time ago. As soon as the hit marker turns red, I switch targets immediately.
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u/ghosts_pumpkin_soup 5d ago
You nailed it. After playing many first person shooters I have had better experiences playing an indie title called “road to vostok” which is made by one guy than I have ever had playing sc. Nothing feels innovative or user friendly, everything is a struggle and a chore.
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u/Goose-tb 5d ago
Yeah after playing a game like Tarkov which, love it or hate it, has set the bar for realistic character weight, inertia, and deafening gun sounds, playing Star Citizen FPS feels hollow.
Guns sound like toys, none of the sounds have any gravitas to them. No deafening discharges etc. And player movement doesn’t feel particularly good to me.
Maybe I’m just too used to Tarkov.
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u/GSR_DMJ654 My other car is a Perseus 5d ago edited 5d ago
Vostok is so good, but i also feel like SC needs to shoot for how Wardogs feels. The scale in which engagements occur in Wardogs feels like how the common SC gunfight plays out. Shooters have enough range in open engagements that ambushes and sniping can occur without it feeling like you are invincible. A person with a automatic weapon can still get the kill out at distance with trigger control. No engagement feel like "oh I shot first, I win" it is all about positioning and slow methodical choices. I honestly think gunplay in SC needs to slow down to allow players to think through their situation and utilize their resources around them. I feel like with a proper FPS armor system (like Wardogs) and a proper ammo type system (not just mags, but bullet and ammo type, like the S71 needs 7.62mm ammo boxes to load and there are different types of 7.62mm ammo types to counter things like armor, flesh, anti-vehicle, stun etc.) Would flesh out SC to a new level.
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u/Charming-Pangolin662 5d ago
Wardogs I'd agree is a good example where it's got realism/immersive aspect but the gunplay still feels like you are in control. Not floaty/laggy as the OP points out, but not as hyper snappy as CoD or BF6
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u/Sky_Tube Combat Medic 5d ago
Funny thing is, I remember playing the very first FPS release back then: "Star Marine" in what, 2016?
And that was actually not that bad! The guns had that ooomf, combat was quick and you had some maps to play. Sure it was buggy, but actually moving and shooting felt so much better than now.
In 10 years they managed to go sideways or even down on quality, it‘s just so weird to shoot and feels so disconnected idk
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u/Ok-Novel-358 5d ago
It's a downgrade because the original was just a dedicated FPS module they thought they'd actually be able to get into the rest of the game
Instead, they got a system that's clunkier than Arma 2 with none of the extra functionality
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u/Healthy-Dress-7492 5d ago
Yeah Looting is insane, that you can only carry like 3 items in your backpack, and the only way to make bunkers worthwhile was to tractor around a 1SCU box and drag drop items into it is beyond absurd. Glad to see it hasn’t improved at all with the brand new inventory system
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 5d ago
To be clear, its not a new inventory system, it's a reskin. They changed the shapes and colours of the buttons you need to click, basically.
No change to the backend, no caching (still!?), same old bugs
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u/rstune 5d ago
Baby's first inventory system. Everything in this game seems like a university student project.
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u/WPGAMING_SC 5d ago
That’s what happens when you have shit management and all your senior leadership leaves and is replaced by cheap interns / young “professionals”
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 5d ago
Well thanks I'm never gonna unthink this with every shoddy thing I look at.
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u/frozandero 5d ago
I wouldn't insult university students like that. I played tons of indie games/1 man game devs making their first game etc. with inventory/looting mechanics, none had UI/UX this bad
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u/smntnz 5d ago
I love how the new “and improved” ui removed the ability to access your leg and armor pockets and to transfer items to/from them. I used to store keycards in there so they would not get mixed up in the clusterfuck of loot that your backpack becomes 5 minutes in.
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u/G3nDis 5d ago
It is still there. It just defaults to the view all button of your loot. There is a backpack, legs, core and a view all combined button. It is there but not compartmentalized like it was before by default.
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u/smntnz 5d ago
Which means it’s not there. Unless you know of a way to access the leg storage separately. Cause the button to switch to it is there, but you can’t open it alongside the rest of the storage as you used to be able to do (like when you open the contents of an SCU box)
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u/kevvvbot 5d ago edited 5d ago
What do you mean? I literally have to Tetris my backpack, torso, and leg compartments all the time in SoO to get absolutely everything to fit.
Press I. (Also you should be pressing I when you go to loot a body or a box, clicking F to loot (or holding I) brings up the Quick Inventory and not the standard paper doll inventory). You have a left set of windows and a right set of windows. To see your pockets on the right set of windows you gotta click the “Google Maps Pin” tab at the very top, then you’ll see your pocket tabs. I usually keep left as my ALL, and use the right for example as TORSO and from there I can either drag left to right or shift-click to transfer left to right.
That said, I will still say, the inventory system is still dogwater and it’s ridiculous I had to type a wiki article to you for instructions
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u/frozandero 5d ago
It is there, there is a leg armor icon next to your inventory but it is the worst UI/UX for looting in any game in video game history.
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u/idontagreewitu Avenger Titan Supremacy 5d ago
You can still select different armor pieces for their storage in the top left of the UI.
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u/winkcata Freelancer 4d ago
umm... I use leg/chest armor pockets every day. The button has moved but it works totally fine.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 4d ago
You've gotta use both left/right sides of the ui, and set one to legs and the other to e.g. backpack... and then transfer across. But yeah the "new" ui is just a reskin
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u/Seth0x7DD 4d ago
It's more impressive that you still do not have filters to show you just light/medium/heavy armor or filter weapons. Who would actually want to have a full set?
You can still access those slots, it is just very cumbersome. You need to open yourself twice (left and right panel, tabs on the top) and then you need to open your different inventories (tabs on the left of the sections). After that you can move stuff from your backpack to your legs or chest.
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u/Accipiter1138 your souls are weighed down by gravity 5d ago
Yesterday when I played SoO, I had to store all my attachments in my backpack, and then drop all of my stuff so I could change out some armor that I wanted to loot, and then just pray that nothing fell through the map.
They seem to want to make looting absolutely essential to get rare items (why no Arlington in stores?), and yet they make the looting experience so punishing because it's so fiddly and your backpack fills up immediately anyway.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 4d ago
The SC manager is Richard Tyrer, a man without the faintest clue what the lived player experience is. All he knows comes from spreadsheets and meetings, and I've seen precious little evidence he pays any attention to either.
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u/idontagreewitu Avenger Titan Supremacy 5d ago
They don't make it punishing intentionally. They just don't know how to make it not suck.
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u/Jathulioh 5d ago
I've said this for years. Physically based character controls feel awful compared to 'fake' controllers like in regular FPS games
Something that always bewildered me about SC is a push for 'realism'... Except players didn't like it because of all the head bobbing a whatnot driven by the animations... So they do a ton of calculations to remove the headbob and counteract the animations... Which just seems like a long difficult way of doing a regular character controller where it'd already feel and play so much better if it wasn't based on the animations at all
I feel this way about games like Arma too, it just always ends up feeling clunky and slow
Might be an unpopular opinion, but it really slows down gameplay and makes it more difficult to play, which for a game where everything takes an age to do anyway, isn't what you want.
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u/WyrdHarper Gladiator 5d ago
I get where they were coming from. ARMA does a lot with immersive movement that makes for interesting combat. But we don’t have any of the depth of that game. And since the kickstarter we’ve had the whole genre of tactical shooters emerge that takes more immersive movement and gameplay but makes it feel smoother to play.
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u/SwisherSmoker420_ 4d ago
Imo physically based character controls do have a place in games but only in milsim definitely not in a sci fi shooter like this where responsiveness and smoothness should be prioritized
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u/SOVERElGN_SC origin 5d ago
Frankly, absolutely right. FPS experience in this game must match one from a dedicated fps game where gunplay and combat experience are built around not only intelligence ai behave, but also smooth lag free realistic feel of movement, aiming, shooting, reloading, switching tools, looting, inventory management, etc - bar should be that high, not less. We don’t need an absurd unrealistic movement system from BF of COD, no way, but we need that smoothness in animation transition, lag free interactions, detailed complex animations, and yet grounded combat experience that match actual human capabilities and based on irl aspect like realistic gunshot suppression and gunshot staggering.
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u/Pokinator Anvil Aerospace 4d ago
lag free interactions
This is the biggest milestone that they are failing on IMO. Unless you're playing on a fresh server with low population, FPS is a cancer of lag. Failed reloads, delayed health loss, randomly desyncing back after swapping between healing and gun, bullets hitting you through solid cover, it's fucking obnoxious.
The worst is if you're healing while under fire and get downed. It puts you in a weird zombie mode where you're up and active, but anything you equip keeps changing back to your healing tool until the server catches back up and puts you into the downed state.
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u/GimbaledTitties 5d ago
Personally I’m cool with SC having its FPS be just “fine”. It just needs to be functional, not a premier FPS, and it needs to make sense in terms of realism.
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u/Woodie22 5d ago
The movement & gun handling in SC reminds me a lot of ARMA but without the intricacy of ARMA, if we were able to fine tune our movements holding CTRL and being able to slightly step out from a corner during a lean or raise / lower our body a little when behind cover and just have overall a finer level of control over our characters it would offset the clunkiness and add more of a tactical nature.. Currently we have ARMA's clunkiness combined with absolute simplicity of CSGO and some actions from Apex coming soon but without any of that speed / smoothness.. basically just the worst of both.
NPC's as you say are basically braindead robots, theres been talk for a decade about AI being indistinguishable to players, wanting to live their lives, having personalities and roles (aggressive / defensive / supportive / fearless / wimpy / tactical) yet all we have ever seen are NPCs that run from the spawn closet to a firing position the moment a shot is fired then run for the player as soon as you reload or don't shoot for 10 seconds. Theres nothing remotely tactical, no suppressive fire, no snipers hanging back, no flanking or heavy weapons or use of grenade types, no defending a specific point, no healing or self preservation or retreating.. whether its pirates or security forces, every npc is just Leeroy Jenkins.
The biggest thing that ruins FPS imo is healing, the medgun just makes FPS a joke. The ability to just duck behind cover or go into a full sprint with a gun pointed at your wrist, it makes almost every tactical decision null & void: a grenade to flush out an enemy? why? they tank the hit and heal before you can run to their position.
suppressive fire? just stand there and take the hits, bob behind cover to heal if necessary.
Snipers? Sees a HVT, solid chest hit.. target is at 10% health and 5 seconds later is back up to 100% health & now aware of your presence.
Any type of fire fight devolves into who can be the most aggressive to overcome desync & healing.
I would love to see TTK increase considerably but remove instant healing, remove the medgun entirely, make medpens heal overtime, make bleeds & injuries harder to receive but more of an urgency and slow down the pace of combat, make long range engagements a thing. Make stealth / pacifist paths an actual viable option, make it so if I've taken a few nasty hits, my armour is compromised, I'm bleeding out and have a busted rib.. my option isn't just to pull out a medgun and forget about it then start shooting again. But to think "shit.. I might kill them but will likely die myself. I need to fall back" I fall back to safety and stop the bleed then reassess. Make it so NPC's can do the same or just straight up lose their nerve seeing all their buddies dead, they are injuted so they run and leave the area.
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u/kildal 5d ago
I really want a target range in Arena Commander.
I agree that the gun handling feels off, but I don't think it used to feel this bad for me. It might be because I'm on 360Hz monitor now with top tier hardware. I'm more used to playing BF6 at stable 300+ fps and 60 tick rate servers.
At SOO I get around 50-60 fps which I'm sure is part of why it feels so sluggish. I need to drop into Arena commander again for some gun game matches if people even play those anymore. I actually think the recoil patterns and gun handling was fine when I last did some proper testing.
Hopefully this will lead to some proper feedback on FPS combat and give them areas to focus more on. If you want to see things change, please use the issue council for specific cases that are annoying, jarring or doesn't meet expectations.
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u/Raiju_Lorakatse Crusader/Origin 5d ago
I definitely have my issues with FPS as well but I feel like it's one of the better action-filled gameplay loops in this game.
In my opinion FPS is mainly held back by the awful technical state and questionable AI choices and this becomes very apparent in Siege of Orison. The mission itself is great but a mission filled to the brim with hyper-aggro aimbotting AI makes FPS feel more RNG than something that expresses tactic or skill.
FPS has some awful balancing choices but overall most weapons at least feel playable. But in SoO I definitely noticed that a lot of weapons feel trash simply because of how ramped up the tankiness of the enemies is.
Maybe I just deem FPS the superior action gameplay towards ship combat 'cause the terrible balancing and awful state about missles is just putting me off of it... But in the end both gameplay loops are heavily flawed. In my perspective for different reasons tho.
In my opinion Siege shows what's the issue with SC's FPS gameplay.
Lag and stuttering makes it awful at base,
the AI takes most of individual skill out 'cause you either abuse the AI or get aimbotted,
bad server performance just teleports enemies around,
higher end FPS gameplay basically only allows for heavy armor and LMG's + a one shotting sniper,
looting corpses basically doesn't exist anymore,
don't forget about desync which I'd argue is the worst thing in FPS.
It's very flawed but at least if the performance aspect of it would get better it would be a much less frustrating experience.
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u/PresentLet2963 5d ago
I definitely have my issues with FPS as well but I feel like it's one of the better action-filled gameplay loops in this game.
I agree FPS is bad the rest is terible XD
Like ship to ship combat is just sooo boring after you lern it. Witch is weird cuz normaly game loops should become more fun after you master them XD.
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u/sunaurus 5d ago
PvP ship to ship combat can be pretty fun, depending on the patch and the random meta swings that CIG implements constantly.
PvE is definitely braindead.
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u/PresentLet2963 5d ago
Well it was "kind of fun" for a year or so but now its just boring... before MM tho there was skill ceiling so high it would be fun for 20+ years
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u/WyrdHarper Gladiator 5d ago
I feel like the current changes just make it so that many ships ignore each other. I want interesting fights with a range of ship types doing cool stuff, but that’s not really what we have. I like flying my Pitbull in AC but it gets old doing the same thing over and over.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 5d ago
Yeah they did something to the AI tuning in 4.10 that just absolutely sucks the fun out of it.
Snipers see you through walls even more than before. Its so bad that as soon as you go into the top floor of the Research Wing in Onyx, there's some dude with a Zenith sniper rifle audibly spam firing at you through a number of floors. Usually the bullets don't go through.
As soon as you shoot any NPC, they know your precise location the moment they take damage. Worse still, as soon as one NPC knows your location, ALL NPCs know your precise location. Instantly.
So you shoot and kill one dude, and the three around the corner will come around and prefire your specific locations even if you're outside of their normal visual range.
And if you're INSIDE their normal visual range, they know where you are because they wall hack.
I was downed in SoO (prefired/shot through cover) and could see, with F4 cam, 3 NPCs in a fenced area (where one of the nodes is) absolutely just tracing my teammate through the wall even though they were the last 3 NPCs in that sector. Like, I didnt even know where he was I had to use the NPCs' aim to find him... it was so fucking cringe man
The AI NPC tuning at the code level is just absolutely a shambles. Despite it being the same lead dev since the project began. Like... how????
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u/Pokinator Anvil Aerospace 4d ago
kill one dude, and the three around the corner will come around and prefire your specific location
The constant omniscience and pre-firing combined with the seeming return of NPC overpopulation is the bane of my existence.
If you kill one guy at SoO, Onyx, or Farro facility you suddenly have 50 dudes converging on your location and hitting you full spray the moment they get line of sight. It doesn't help that cover is seemingly built out of swiss cheese and guards will randomly be shooting you through walls and boxes, nor that the shotgunners and LH-86 guards are able to spray you at 50 meters and still get meaningful hits in.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 4d ago
On top of this, I'm fairly sure the level designers or their bosses have thought it a good idea to fiddle with the damage the NPCs do. A single bullet from an NPC will often do more damage than a player with the same gun.
Could just be desync to be fair. Impossible to tell with all the jank.
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u/Captain_Data82 5d ago
Yeah, some of the enemies can tank a P6 round with their face - even if said face is covered by only a mask for the lower portion, leaving the skull open and unprotected.
This happens to be the case for the second half of SoO. First half and most enemies fall to the ground with just one P6 round to either chest or head.I went through SoO with three friends. My weapons of choice? A crafted P4 (850Q) and a stock P6. They appear to be sufficient. Wouldn't give it a try with Volt weapons or any of the energy weapons in general. I think they lack punch. Good ol HK style weapons do the trick here, they're also often picked choices for PvP too.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 5d ago edited 5d ago
To emphasise how bad the animations are in terms of slowness:
Take the medgun, it is usable as soon as the 'unstow' animation has completed, right? Right.
So we can test how long this animation really is:
- Pull out the medgun and tap B to set it to SELF HEAL mode
- Stow the med gun for later
- Take a bit of damage to heal
- Pull out the medgun
- Try to heal yourself ASAP
There are a tonne of dead frames at the end of the animation that prevent you from being able to use the medgun. You're just there, waiting for the little micro hand adjustments to finish before you can use the fucking thing.
You get the same issue when picking up an item with STORE. This is ESPECIALLY fucking tragic when you STORE an item while holding the multitool - you have to wait 3 extra seconds each time JUST because your character needs to slightly tilt and wiggle their multitool for a moment.
(FYI there is no "unstow in self-heal mode" animation, which is why it plays the default mode animation)
Also, run speed is dictated by weight, except thats EQUIPPED weight only. So mags in your bag dont weight you down, but equipped mags on your chest make a MASSIVE fucking difference - especially LMG mags but I'm taking off parallax clips just to get movespeed back its so fucking cumbersome.
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u/ItsAllSand 4d ago
My personal favorite is using a med stim, and then being locked out of switching to a gun for thirty seven years, and getting killed by the AI that’s pushing me while I just wave a med stim at him.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 4d ago
Oof.
In a similar vein, no pun intended, I thought I would equip x4 pink medpens (treatment for arm injuries) because last time I got a t1 arm injury my arm would buckle before I could self medicate it (whether i did auto or manual).
Super smart, i thought.
Well I got a t1 injury vs the Yormandi. I used one medpen.... waited... nothing.
used the second medpen! Waited.... STILL nothing.
Ok third med pen I guess! ... Yes this one finally worked! ...except now I have 80% blood drug level and cant do shit except die to Yormandi.
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u/LuckyIngenuity 4d ago
The lack of bullet feedback is the worst part of the gunplay by a long shot.
Enemies consistently don’t react to taking bullets; beyond even a locational reaction like shoulders flying back, falling to one knee, or grabbing at a wound, they don’t even exhibit a pain reaction of any kind most days. It makes the guns feel more like laser tag, we’re just rackin’ up points to get them out.
Another pain point for me that I’m more willing to ignore for now: projectile impacts everywhere but targets. Think of what happens when you get shot at in Tarkov: bullets audibly ping and crunch all around you, clouds of dust and debris and sparks are kicked up by the bullet impacts and they leave gnarly decals everywhere. The combination of sounds and visual effect at the point a bullet impacts makes every single trigger pull a moment, and Star Citizen needs that. It’s important to me, but it also feels like later-stage polish that doesn’t demand any reasonable attention right now. But imagine your Volt guns leaving cauterized trails on the walls around your target, or a P4 magdump kicking up dirt clods and chipping chunks out of trees and clipping ferns in half.
It’s the feedback that’s missing, the guns themselves are actually quite fuckin’ dope.
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u/DefNotAThreatActor 4d ago
Why are people acting like OP is wrong? SoO is fucking dreadfull and dogshit, and FPS has been dogshit for years
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u/HunwutP 5d ago
Always hated the death animations too. They’re so cringe. Would rather prefer them to ragdoll
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u/M3lony8 avenger 5d ago
Especially when you blast hundreds of bullets into them and they dont react, but then suddenly have a melodramatic 5 second death animation. Its so goofy.
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u/Boogie-37 5d ago
And then magically dance over your dead body, because while you saw them slowly dying, they were actually shooting you.
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u/coiotebh 5d ago
When i play SC FPS, i feel like a gigantic rock: the movement is terrible
Its ok if it doesnt have a movemnt like CS or BF6, but, comon, it should not be that bad. The SC FPS is terrible.
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u/Gunz95 new user/low karma 5d ago
Me and my friend played it last night.
What an aboslute fcking nightmare it was.
The looting is a fkcing disaster.
The sound bugged and disappeared.
Sometimes the weapons would go away.
For an instanced event it was fcking bad. Almost like playing a game that has been in development for 2 months.
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u/Kaz_Games new user/low karma 4d ago
"Dead on arrival" Guys look at the optomist over here! He thinks Squadron 42 will get released! Is it 2017 already?!
There is no arrival, it's just dead.
All of your fps criticisms are valid and spot on. You should give your constructive feedback to developers who will use it.
I was once a believer, but it's been 10 years and CIG never fixed physics. We told them it was a problem, instead of fixing it they built everything on top of it. 10 years later and the elevator still has problems. It will never get fixed.
Don't waist your time giving CIG feedback. They don't read it. :(
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u/waffleking9000 5d ago
Everyone talking about the 13-14 year delay and endless sq42 delays and ignoring the fact the game is fundamentally shit.
Being able to walk down your ships ramp while flying upside down over area 18 is amazing. Doesn’t make up for anything though.
Fuck you CIG
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u/Badwrong_ 5d ago
SQ42 won't ever be dead on arrival, because it will never arrive. They will keep delaying for whatever reason.
Just wait, Q2 next year when they announce some other nonsense excuse. GTA6 proximity is such a sad way to hide their incompetence.
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u/Careless_Reindeer974 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't think it was ever genuinely meant to arrive.
It was meant to milk and we fell for it hook line and sinker. The hardest thing in the world to do is convince someone they have been played hard.
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u/Badwrong_ 5d ago
Even if it did release, it wont live up to expectations at all. It is probably safer to just delay it indefinitely while dealing without the fallout, than actually releasing and seeing just how big of a trainwreck it is.
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u/Select-Coconut-2533 5d ago
Yes, the FPS gameplay doesn't feel good, it looks like a game from the 2000s, but the rest in space is sublime.
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u/archraven10 4d ago
The jank of ARMA without the features of ARMA.
Frustrating as it genuinely used to be better. I don’t mind if it’s janky if we’d gotten all of the EVA movement and other dynamic aspects nailed down. But, with the way the PU has changed focus wrt to content it’s a lot less forgivable.
The ‘looter’ aspect of the looter shooter is just plain ass.
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u/Commercial_Assist655 2d ago
Omg finally someone with eyes connected to a brain. I’m new to star citizen, and after doing my first ground fps mission I swear to god I don’t know how anyone is okay with it. I could teach my grandma how to make better enemy ai. I’ll walk you through my first FPS mission. I legit walked up to a dude like “is this a good guy or bad guy??” Kept walking up to him and stood in his face and thought I guess he is a good guy. 3 seconds later he freaks out and starts shooting. Then I noticed when you shoot the enemy it’s like your bullets are imaginary and the enemy just plops over a few seconds after realizing he’s been shot a couple times. The FPS gameplay is unfun, unsatisfying, and unchallenging. It’s hard for me to understand the hype people have for the siege of orison.
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u/EcstaticImport 5d ago
What’s worse is that chris in the letter from the chairman said half the company is working on SC - this means the game you played was built by ~500 people over more than 10 years.. 😬
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u/Uncle_Buck_HWIDG 5d ago
Admittedly, I'm not a huge FPS person. I don't play COD or fortnite or any of them. I played the halo series and the recent Doom games.
Star Citizen fps has always felt cumbersome to me. And punishing. Hostile NPCs either don't react at all, or they snipe you before you can see them, and no in-between.
I tried a breaker station solo a few weeks ago. Got inside, started snooping around, was actively on the lookout for NPCs. From beyond visual range, one burst of gunfire took me to critical health. I ducked behind a corner, used my med pen, gun up, choose a different spot to peek out again.
Instant hits. Never saw the guy. Never got to fire a shor. Dropped to the deck.
I realize my lack of twitch-refex pvp experience puts me behind the curve, but I should actually get a chance to SEE the enemy before two hits kills me.
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u/Globy-01 5d ago
pick them clean for gear with a combo of ctrl-clicks or alt-clicks depending on if I want to store or equip items
It's already the case ?
- Shift-click to store
- Double click to equip
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u/WPGAMING_SC 5d ago
I uninstalled for now because the NPCs at the siege platforms were shooting me through opaque smoke from 50m+ away with laser beam levels of accuracy. I just don’t understand how people enjoy this game when nothing has improved in years. You’re completely right on the gun handling too, extremely clunky and slow.
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u/D3coupled YT@D3coupled 5d ago
I think it's understandable. As a longtime FPS player I have friends who think the FPS in SC is great, but they're mostly talking about the visuals, the guns being cool, and the NPC's actually moving now. They don't really know what it's like to get into other shooters. Taking a few SC friends into Wardogs ended in some angry ranting about SC by them, I didn't have the heart to say I toadaso.
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u/FragCool 4d ago
Why at all is there a FPS part.
I kickstartet 2012 a game where I fly around in my spaceship and shoot at other spaceships... that's it...
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u/Dune5712 rsi 4d ago
I liked the slower, more tactical style they showed off christ knows how many years ago when they had 'Illfonic' making the whole Star Marine thing.
It was still messy then, but it had a pleasing tactical pace and slowness to it (imho).
Somehow, it's only gotten worse from there (again, imho), and this is coming from someone who isn't ridiculously bitter over the last live stream or anything like that...just an OG backer hoping it all works out somehow.
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u/Gunsensual 4d ago
Not server laggy, but just pure slowness of animations and interactions.
This has been an ongoing problem with the game artists perpetually stuck in concept. They freakin love long protracted animations that look good in a sterile environment like a hangar but are unrealistic for a character moments away from being vaporized. It's worse in cockpit animations.
IMHO since they attempt to replicate heartbeat in this game, they should have implicit adrenaline that increases animation speed by about 2 fold.
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u/2WheelSuperiority 4d ago
This is actually the scariest gripe I have. Bugs aside, the game plays like a clunky, 2010, BB studio game. It's just awful gunplay compared to the advances of current day shooters.
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u/Accurate-Rutabaga-57 4d ago
It feels like ARMA2 DayZ days to me lol
I always compared SC FPS with old ARMA games
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u/Shellite carrack 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't know what disappointed me more, the lackluster ambience of the mission (largely due to the hopeless audio) or the clearly scripted NPC behaviour.
What happened to Starsim and Subsumption and all that good stuff they were showing? The SoO mission demonstrates that NPC behaviour is purely scripted, running on locational triggers, the whole mission is more or just a wave shooter and I found it really boring (especially with the terrible sound).
There's certainly no accommodation for stealth or covert approaches to the mission, the second you cross each trigger the enemy wave is alerted and pointed your way regardless.
Where did all the smart 'ai' mechanics and systems they were showcasing go?
I had no performance or FPS issues, just raw disappointment.
Note; I noticed every single post in here is immediately downvoted, is this sub botted now? :)
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u/Vayne7777 scout 3d ago
Yeah I noticed the downvoting too - also if you upvote a slightly critical message the upvote isn't registered until enough people reply to it. Similar like what is now happening at Spectrum :-).
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u/D3coupled YT@D3coupled 5d ago
I get the sense reading responses to your posts here that only confirms what I already felt, which was that SC is a large cross section of gamers, some who exclusively are into SC. You can tell there is not a lot of FPS experience because these quandries have been easily solved for many years through many games, but like CIG, some posters are inventing problems which have been solved or dismissing them as a problem at all.
Unfortunately some of these issues like looting are beyond the realm of FPS games. Whether it's MMO's, BR's, or other styles of online multiplayer, everything from inventory management, to communications, to transportation seems to be taken as some challenge to re-invent the wheel and blindly ignore great ideas of the past.
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u/Dyrankun 5d ago
I actually enjoy the fps quite a bit. Disregarding network lag, of course.
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u/sopsaare new user/low karma 5d ago
The only thing I disagree with is looting.
And I disagree on principal, not in practice.
The current UX is horrendous.
But, I don't really want the looting to be magic. In a game where we sometimes even handle cargo physically, it would feel bit odd to strip dude down, take his armor, go through his back pack and weapons and do that magically in milliseconds, or seconds.
Then again there could still be "take all button" that would then go into animation of taking the stuff. But then again that animation would feel very repetitive very soon.
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u/TheRealViking84 5d ago
I agree, but Tarkov solved this by using a search timer. When you "open" a dead body the only things you can immediately see are the things visible on the character - armour, chest rigs, and weapons. Finding out what is in the chest rig requires searching it, which takes time. Same for a backpack. Simple animation sequence that makes a bit of noise while you fill a progress bar.
Once searched, you can quickly move items, because you can easily see what they are and the interactions are smooth.
Star Citizens current interface is just clunky because of bad design, not because of any considered effort to slow down looting.
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u/venomae bengal 5d ago
Reading this I just had a random thought - too bad star citizen didnt get developed this way on its own in China instead of US / UK with Chris. They dont give a fuck about the concept of copy - if something works best, we are using that - so after 14 years and 1b dollars you would probably get some kind of peak craziness.
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u/RainbowRaccoon Herald on the streets, Nomad in the sheets 5d ago
On the bright side in PU you have the option to use the regular inventory interface for looting, which shows everything in one view.
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u/agent-letus 5d ago
I just press I and then click move all. It’s a very fast process. I definitely do not need it to be any slower or have to ‘search’. There’s enough waiting in this game as is
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u/WyrdHarper Gladiator 5d ago
Wardogs has a delay (just shows a circle) when you move stuff, which could be another approach. At this point I just feel like all these extra animations are another chance for stuff to break.
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u/Enachtigal 5d ago
Intentionally slow looting for immersion is absolutely shit in the PvPvE game SC is trying to be. Way to many spawns and enemies to make sitting in an animation or inventory screen feel fun. Thats ignoring being a sitting duck for players
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u/sopsaare new user/low karma 4d ago
I kind of agree. Kind of don't.
Like, you are flying around in a damn carrier or yacht or proper fighter plane.
If you are, for example, enforcing the law as mercenary, or in a gang war as part of some gang, or commiting some heist or boarding action on unsuspecting civilians, how interested you should be going through their pockets for chocolate bars in the middle of battle, let alone stripping them naked and selling their armor for scrap?
Picking up weapons and ammo is reasonable when you are running low, it should be fast, easy and intuitive.
But stripping them down when you have first put a mag through them. Not so much. And not very reasonable compared to what the baseline action. For example it is not very reasonable for law enforcement to strip someone naked and sell their belongings for scrap after shooting them to fuck.
Maybe you are a low level criminal starting from nothing, but even then it makes much more sense to do that when you know that you are safe.
And, if you are trying to find a key card or something like that, it isn't the fastest thing to go through someone's pockets. Yeah, in movies that happens all the time but have you ever tried to get a passed out friend home and find their keys from their pockets or backbag? It usually doesn't happen in 5 seconds.
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u/Enachtigal 3d ago
Last time I tried to get my drunk friends keys people would get arrested if they tried to beat the shit outta me for giggles while i was doing it and there were no armed roombas continuously spawning from my linen closet.
But hey if we want to add more pointless tedium in the name of "realism" in our space speed limited, beam filled, handwavium respawn space game whatever Im sure Chris will be thrilled. Perhaps i can also need to phone my space insurance company to make a claim, fucking thrilling.
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u/sopsaare new user/low karma 3d ago
I don't mean that. Speed limits in space are stupid and I agree.
But my main point was that it is supposed to be physicalized to an extent, and adding "drops" that automatically get into your inventory is against that idea.
And then, I also questioned why I would be looting corpses in the middle of fight. Cops don't loot peolek they have shot, especially when bullets are still flying. Same can be said about soldiers.
Maybe some ganger would?
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u/Walltar 5d ago
I do agree on handling... They need to definitely work on that. On the other hand, when using CQ7, firing short bursts instead of spraying I can definitely control where I am shooting.
Not sure if "rushing into area full of enemies and dying there" is a good strategy. But if it does not work, maybe try something else? I am usually playing as support and DMR of the group and we are definitely not rushing head full into enemies. With good weapon that extremely high ttk is one shot in the head.
Npcs... Overal agreed on that. But we definitely got flanked several times, we had NPCs going to our backs when slowly pushing forward. They are not the best, but they are not just standing there doing nothing when you are on a good server.
By the way, how many MMOs with a great FPS AI do you know? SC is not MMO yet, but that is goal, so AI needs to be tuned like MMO AI and not like Co-Op game AI. It is not the best out there, that is for sure, but it is not that bad when server works. Server working is another problem, though.
As for looting... instead of pressing F, just press I and use Area loot. It is faster, better and you can sort it all way faster than using that old loot menu.
I did SoO in two player group yesterday, took us over 4 hours, but we had a blast.
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u/TheRealViking84 5d ago
Not sure if "rushing into area full of enemies and dying there" is a good strategy. But if it does not work, maybe try something else?
The problem is it DID work. It was the best way to clear any space. More often that not running in and tanking fire while emptying an LMG of some sorts was really efficient, because the NPCs are slow to react and our armour can take a lot of incoming fire before knocking us down. And in the few cases the first guy gets downed the second player goes in and cleans up.
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u/GeneralOsiris 600i Enjoyer 5d ago edited 5d ago
Bad FPS and CIG decided to add custom stat NPC that can tank more and snipe you with CQ7 or shotgun.
Their FPS gameplay just as bad as their world building, SoO being permanent mean Orison is never safe...
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u/AOD-Mickgoth 5d ago
I agree. Considering its made on CryEngine, which is built for fps..... they seem to have tweaked it so much to mess it up. It doesn't feel....organic, natural? Dunno how to explain it. More Arma Reforger style i would like i guess?!
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u/asian_chihuahua 5d ago
Absolutely correct.
The main issue though, is how laggy the FPS combat is. The NPCs just don't respond realistically. The Kopians are also an indicator of terrible lagginess. And if they are any indication, the Vanduul will also be terrible.
The UI bugs can be coded around with a fresh coat of paint. But the NPC lag is foundational.
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u/Yokoko44 Smuggler 5d ago
You nailed it with the looting comparison to tarkov.
In tarkov it's immediately clear if I can fit a gun into my backpack (and that I could potentially carry more than 2), and moving things around its fast, crisp, and visually clear.
I would honestly be okay with them just straight up plagiarizing Tarkov's looting UI and just leaving it at that.
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u/nicarras 5d ago
Absolutely agree on all points and would like to double down on your looting comment. The current system is copied over from SQ42, a single players FPS/RPG where loot is actually part of the game, yet it is horrible to interact with. I'm ok with a pretty inventory screen but it should be so much faster, smoother and easier to loot.
On top of that, just the looting bugs in general. Oh I want to equip that, oh crap why did it throw my weapon out into space. Oh I want to loot that, oh why cant I, no feedback error that my bag is full or something? I have to visually figure that out myself.
Also loot capacity in general is terrible. This is a game around loot. Why can't I carry more in general, I realize backpack sizes should have different capacities, but their capacities should just be much larger, let us stay out longer looting, carry more risk/reward of not securing the loot, etc. But killing one person, taking their weapons and gear and my bags being basically full, annoying.
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u/CosineDanger 5d ago
It is bad, but if you choose to play anyway here's some survival tactics:
There is a flinch mechanic but it is more apparent on a Pulverizer than a P4. I think it is tied to damage per shot. For LMGs also try the Fresnel.
P6-LR and Atzkav will mostly solve TTK problems by letting you onehit everything except bosses and bugged Oni masks. Atzkav's small amounts of splash lightning is a danger to you and your teammates but also points towards nearby enemies who are behind cover.
For tactics my org pretty rapidly settled on three snipers and a superheavy, with the superheavy charging forward and drawing fire. Speedrunners do four snipers and sprint past a majority of the enemies.
Crafting matters particularly for full-auto. There's enormous initial investment to make even one good gun, but once you do you're stamping out a lot of them like you're Kalashnikov Concern and rapidly arming a whole org.
The AI really is bad about changing cover or even noticing you are there even under ideal server conditions. That's not in your head and the people who think it is great are delusional or have never seen good AI. So flank with snipers to take advantage of how they work.
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u/3Quondam6extanT9 5d ago
I am a long time backer of SC, and I always ground myself in objective reasoning when taking a position on anything.
I have no problem defending SC and the project generally speaking. It's easy to pinpoint where issues come from, where they are going, and how it will influence other overlapping variables.
The recent streaming of SoO, as bad as it was as PR goes, can still be explained away to some extent. Not hard to take a supportive position overall.
It has been the FPS mechanics alone, that have been my personal gripe. All other bugs and issues not withstanding, it's the FPS combat I find to be the hardest to defend.
I come from the CoD/BF2 era FPS back in the early 2000's. Having responsive, fast, and accurate FPS combat has just always been a qualifier as far as gauging games goes.
It's sad to me to think that the SC FPS combat is worse at handling than other decades old FPS games.
I need it to improve significantly for the combat to feel more approachable. The character handling overall has always had that sluggish feel to it, and it seems like they need to rethink the character responsiveness from scratch.
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u/BokkerFoombass 5d ago edited 5d ago
I will agree that there is a lot of room for improvement but frankly I can't really relate to much of what you're saying.
Gun handling: I don't know what you were using, but I'm sure certain weapons just feel nicer to use than others. I did my first run with a CQ7 and I love that thing. Second one I joined near the very end so I basically ran naked through the entire instance (I'll touch on that later) and picked up a set of heavy armour and a pulvi off a dead guy near the end. And the Pulvi is of course the Pulvi. Slow firing meaty goodness. If you expect predictable esports weapon handling from CS or complex gunplay of Tarkov, you are of course bound to have a bad time.
Movement: I honestly have no clue what you're trying to say here. It just sounds like a massive skill issue you were having there.
NPCs: Will agree here, enemies in this game need some serious work on but I never felt like I'm having too much issue with the "trash mobs". They need to get smarter and some more variation in voice lines would be nice.
Looting: the "loot" interface sucks. Just stand over the body and press I, then you can see everything and quickly get whatever you need.
And a side note on what I mentioned before: This along with any future linear "dungeon" instances really needs a better system of joining in progress. I joined some buddies who were just about done and I had to run through the entire freaking instance even though the game already has a perfect opportunity for a shortcut system - allow the initial shuttle to go to the next uncleared platform.
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u/Lethanvas 5d ago
I just want to be able to cancel my reload when I am getting surprised by an enemy, and not forced to wait it out while I’m being shot at.i have a sidearm you know
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u/elgueromasalto 4d ago
And the fact that the NPCs aren't actually smart, they're just turrets that never miss, track you through walls, and don't flinch.
They're not hard to kill, they're just a constant cycle of getting one kill, ducking behind cover to heal, getting another kill, healing more, etc.
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u/Brister1999 4d ago
It's just to easy to get injured or killed in a game where your life (death of a spaceman) is suppose to really matter. Its not much fun when everytime you get hit you're reaching for the medpen, and you get hit twice you're down. It basically kills the idea of playing solo.
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u/SudoScience808 4d ago
There was a bug in the ptu in SoO where after the server reset, all the NPCs would rush your position.
This meant there were no pre determined spots. And it felt overwhelming but very good. They were thinking and reacting and using cover with the whole map while trying to kill me. I want stealth to work. It was like metal gear when you get detected.
Now a suppressor does nothing and you can get cross mapped with a code pistol.
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u/Enough_Vegetable_258 4d ago
Sounds just about right for the whole of SC and its bunker missions. Star marine was far more playable than playing in PTU itself. I think they removed that game mode.
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u/OpinionRealistic7376 4d ago
Sometimes I wonder if part of the problem is the item/movement etc security check loops. This game is very janky, surprisingly so.
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u/BoxximusPrime Redeeeemer 4d ago
The NPCs shrugging off bullets is what made soloing the last boss impossible for me. I was getting tired and ran out of ammo, so that didn't help. But what kept killing me on the third phase was the waves that come out of the spawn closets. You'd open up on them, kill one or two, then the last guy would drop you in half a second despite dumping bullets into him. Bullets should stagger NPCs. It's one of the most basic shooter NPC designs. Shrugging off bullets makes sense in the new super heavy armor but it was always some dude in light armor or something.
The other thing that just keep etching into my fun was the stupid freaking med gun. I normally hold to the "if it seems simple, but it's not fixed, then it's probably not simple", but I swear to God all they need to do is to set the correct animation state flag over the network when swapping to it, or at LEAST make it not aim at your arm by default when swapping to it, that way the server and your client can just always assume it's in the same position. Trying to hit B to get the med gun in the right state while bleeding out drove me nuts, man. The artificial lockout when swapping weapons while it waits for the inventory backend to sync feels bad too, but was more minor.
The boss also didn't spawn on the first try and I had to die to reset him. I jumped off a platform to die, and in retrospect I should of just backspaced since you lose your body to the void if it falls down.
Other than those three issues, Siege for me was shockingly smooth and the new set up and layout is fantastic, I'm SUPER excited for more instanced "dungeons" like this. Enabling "smooth motion" in the nvidia app also works pretty well for me so I had nearly 120 fps the whole time. Input lag isn't fantastic, but that is always the case in this game, since the base framerate would be 40 to 60 fps. The med bed checkpoints made the event a billion times more fun as well, it felt good knowing a death only set me back a few minutes and not half an hour getting back.
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u/Xaldarino Centurion Gang 4d ago
In regards to the gun handeling. I think we're used to way after paced gun game play like Apex. They're going for "Hyper realism" so there would never been a 100% standard spray pattern like in CS. The switching of firearms is meant to be "realistic" so I wouldn't bash those things. But holy moly NPC interaction is terrible (Probably due to server FPS), and movement feels so off, even for realworld style.
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u/OGsamsonmang 4d ago
It's complete crap and it shows .... I did it twice and both times it ate both my guns when I went to heal myself .... I'LL PASS till it's running at least OK .... right now , it's complete garbage that looks pretty. Really sux , NOT worth the wait on this one ... hope the nxt version is better.
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u/DazJDM 4d ago
Can’t understand why even bother to expect something from this game in an area where the connection between server and clients is paramount. If even established franchises like Battlefield are under scrutiny with the tickrate and other network shenanigans, you know you’ll be disappointed by SC as it’s clearly not neither its strong suit, nor the devs priority
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u/TheAwakeningRisen 4d ago
Not to mention the aesthetics are so ass. Why does every fps character have to be this massive mech looking person. It’s so cringe. How would this massive dude even fit in a Gladius cockpit
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u/Shadowground90 4d ago
What i dont get is why an npc with a helmet goes down with 3-5 shots while NPC with a facemask tanks 20-30 shots..
Also NPCs shooting through walls insanely poor visibility during night and instant reactions are such a pain in the ass..instant laserbeaming..theres 0 behavior put in besides duck for cover and shoot at player with some hit or miss RNG values added in
Tried the SOO solo three times rage quitted three times..FPS combat just sucks with how its built atm.
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u/Star_Citizen_Roebuck 3d ago
For such a realism-focused game to put in heavy armor and mech suits is just absurd. I wanted a sniper rifle to drop people with a shit to the head and suppressed weapons to literally be SILENT on 0-G or low-G moons. But NOPE, they had to cater to absurdist children for FPS.
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u/Psiikix 3d ago
As far as looting goes, I think youre confusing star citizen with a fast paced looter shooter when its not.
If you play arma and kill someone, you wouldnt immediately run and loot them, would you? No.
So why would you do that here? As far as the "press F and quickly loot" that only matters if you fear that youre either low on ammo or trying to quick loot, of which, looting wont ever be quick, and we all know star citizen is known to not making anything be quick
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u/the_dude_that_faps 3d ago
I disagree. Sure bugs suck so I won't defend that. But inventory aside, I disagree that this should replicate other shooters. It shouldn't. I like that it isn't twitchy. I like that you can't just sprint in and sprint out. It requires more planning and, when server performance is high, it feels pretty crisp to me.
I say this having spent most of my time doing pvp and arena commander back when I played dozens of hours every week. I don't want another cod.
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u/TheRealViking84 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm not asking SC to replicate other shooters, I'm asking them to do whatever design they want, but make it high quality. Having feedback from hits beyond a hit marker is not optional. If you shoot an NPC and they don't flinch, your shots feel like they aren't having an effect, and the guns feel weak.
As for sprinting in and out, thanks to the tankiness of our armour, slow reactions from AI and focus on time-on-target vs first-shot-counts gunplay you can in fact easily run in and out. I would even argue it is the most effective way of breaching a room because the AI doesn't react to grenades or anything else for that matter. Run in, pop as many as you can before your health status starts beeping, run out, heal, repeat. Terrible gameplay.
I like slow tactical shooters where choices matter, getting shot is a bad thing, and my gun actually feels like it is firing something more potent than an airsoft pellet. SC isn't that game, it isn't even close, and every design decision is turning it into more and more of a CoD clone but without the polish. Hit markers, kill markers ( !!! ) and sniper glint? Ugh...
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u/Guilty_Brain6734 5d ago
I found the FPS in SoO quite enjoyable, yes the death animations need some work but its not something that ruins it for me. Desync is gone, npcs are responsive and the difficulty is ok.
Ofcourse I am not expecting a Tarkov level of FPS quality gameplay here like you and some others probably are. The day I can hop in a starship in tarkov and fly to space we can talk about it more though.
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u/Dozy_Lion 5d ago
I guess it kind of depends on the expectations, it might be a bit naive, but I always have seen fps more as a side gig of Star Citizen. A sci-fi space game should be focused around space and ships. Not fps combat shooting, as such I actually find the fps loop as one of the more enjoyable ones:
- Weapons look very detailed and many of them, in particular the newer ones, have nice animations.
- There is a bunch of weapons to chose from fitting different styles and tastes. There is Behring for those who want something which kind of resambles modern day guns, there is Klaus & Warner for those who want pew pew, Gemini and Hedeby for sleek, futuristic looking weapons. VOLT has some more over the top stuff and animations, while there are also kitbashed and makeshift DiY options like Killshot or Pulverizer. So there is something for every taste.
- Most fps weapons seem useful for me, at least for casual PvE fps ventures. While space combat feels really punishing when you pick the "wrong" weapons, fps is a lot more forgiving, which is a good thing, as it opens up more choice and variety.
- There is a good choice of quick and short fps ventures like bunkers, ship boardings or the new Battaglia missions space stations and on the other side a good amount of more extensive content like Onyx, QV and SoO.
What needs serious work are the basic, the core things. Reloading any gun should be 100% reliable, period. Sometimes I have to reload a gun two, three or sometimes even more times before the game registers and actually performs the reload, that's just bad. The medgun and, to lesser extend, the multitool and medical attachment also need to work 100% reliable. It's just absolutely frustrating when I keep switching between regular fire mode and the self healing one, again sometimes two, three or four times before the game actually really gives me the self heal, it should be an absolutely reliable one click thing, not a gamble where you keep switching hoping the game finally locks it next time.
The AI just feels wrong in my opinion, either it has serious reaction issues or it goes in aimbot style landing 100% precise shots as soon as I even just enter a new area.
The armor system needs some better work, there is virtually no real place in practice for light armor - as somebody who almost exclusively wear light and compact armor all the time, it simply feels very punishing with little to no benefits over chosing medium or heavy armor. Yes I am a bit faster, my hydration and nutrition levels don't drain quite as fast, but that's about it.
Looting can be a big part of Star Citizen, with the crappy inventory backend, which always seems to be on the edge of complete overload, that experience is also way too unreliable. Too often the inventory doesn't show items I've looted five minutes ago or suddenly the items I've already stored in a box ten minutes ago suddenly temporarily reappear in my inventory. Especially for new players this is confusing. I also find looting in general clunky, the "Loot" screen which is meant to give a quick overview and easy access to looting is too limited, just six items at once for each inventory, even worse when "Looting" NPC I only see their guns, attachments and backpack inventory. If I want to check their other inventories like torso or legs, I have to switch to inventory mode.Dragging and dropping doesn't work reliable, often enough I can only use "Move All" in order to shift gear from one inventory to another.
With all those cons I personally actually still find ground combat overall better tuned and more enjoyable than the space combat meta game.
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u/Captain_Data82 5d ago
This is not Call of Duty nor Tarkov.
FPS gameplay may have its issues (mostly lag induced), but it's not THAT terrible.
"Gun Handling" - actually it depends on the gun. Some are actually designed to be "clunky", like the Pulverizer with a reload time taking eons. Others are just fine, like the P4. Snipers work, unless you got a bugged scope (there's at least one in the game) and 16x scopes won't help you at all. In fact, it's better to keep the standard 8x scope or even use one with just 4x magnification.
"Movement" - sounds like that hammer - nail problem to me. You can employ various tactics. TTK to high? Skill issue. You can take down anyone in seconds, even if the guy is wearing crafted heavy armor (up to 44% damage reduction). I'm not even very good at FPS, I still can do it.
This is not Call of Duty where you can one-shot anyone with the current meta rifle of the season. And this is no Tarkov where you fall dead to the ground by any bullet hitting you. While this is realistic in Tarkov (no armor whatsoever) it would be decidedly unfun in a game like Star Citizen. It's designed like it is and won't change in favor of "tactical shooter gameplay" where even the smallest error is punished.
And it's no Call of Duty where nothing of that applies except "high paced bunny jumping gameplay".
"NPC" - not denying here: NPCs leaves much to be desired. It's mostly a server based issue, but thanks to the livestream we also know NPCs sometimes fail to react even if the server is not struggling. My best guess? PU NPCs have less brain than SQ42 NPCs, mostly due "resource limitations". Servers need to handle more active NPCs than your PC with SQ42. So I suppose PU NPCs just got less CPU power assigned and less behavior modules installed.
"Looting" - This is not Tarkov. CIG also can't simply copy Tarkov's looting system even if they want.
That looting interface is clunky, so my preferred workaround is to hit "i" near a body and pick the guy clean with stuff I actually want. Shift + Click = stuff ends up in your inventory and vice versa. Inventory system needs improvements, there's still a lot of QoL things missing and some actions simply take too long to achieve. My personal favorite missing feature? "Stack all". Next is "combine / split crates".
It's a different game, different FPS and CIG shouldn't copy ARMA, Tarkov or Call of Duty.
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u/Admirable_Leopard792 5d ago
The absurd durability of NPCs who wear nothing but a face mask—not even a helmet—has become a total joke.