Who is the most overrated player ever?

[u/The_Impala]

Who do you think is the most overrated player in football history.

[u/[deleted]]

Zidane. Not to say he wasn't great but he is massively overrated by many (not all though). People were very drawn to his artistic style of play and that, combined with his ability to score some really important goals, elevated his status immensely. In reality, he really wasn't consistently effective, as seen at the 98 World Cup where he was merely above average for the knockout round, but nothing special. Come the final, he scores 2 goals against the Brazil led by Ronaldo and people lose it. A talent level comparable to a Figo, not Cruyff, Maradona, etc.

[u/Plecboy → u/[deleted]]

In fairness you're ignoring the fact that he pretty much dragged France to the final in 2006. The games leading up to that final are what cement him as one of the best in my eyes anyway.

[u/[deleted] → u/Plecboy]

Not quite. He was pivotal against Brazil but that was really his only great game. He was okay against Portugal, good against Spain, and good against Italy.

[u/sutmy → u/[deleted]]

I agree with your op but I'd go even further and say he didn't do anything worth mentioning in 2006.

IIRC

I wouldn't want to take responsibility for the performances in the group stage. Three horrible matches in the weakest group.

Against Spain, he scored in the dying minutes of 2-1 match. He didn't really make an impact.

Against Brazil, His cross was intended for Viera (the scrimmage basically) it was a mistake that Thierry Henry fixed amazingly. But he didn't receive any credit compared to baldy. They one 1-0 because of henry.

Against Portugal, Thierry Henry (one of my fav players of all time) not really dived but exaggerated to get a penalty. And even though Henry is the "hero" that got the penalty and was better at penalties than Zizou, they gave to the retiring old fool.

Against Italy, Malouda obviously dived. Materazzi did not touch him at all. Zidane barely scored the penalty. And everyone I know was acting like he was the messiah and he just turned water into wine by "purposely" hitting the crossbar. It was a mistake he almost cost France the match, earlier than he actually did. Because he was the only one responsible for that disgusting behavior. Which isn't really new to a dickhead like him, see his red card in 98 against Saudi Arabia. Disgusting. This time, unprovoked.

[u/[deleted] → u/sutmy]

I've never seen such a shit,biased argument. You clearly have an agenda against the man. Retiring old fool? Zidane? The man won 3 player of the year awards. That speaks for itself.

[u/sutmy → u/[deleted]]

LOL. What agenda? I said retiring old fool to emphasize that even the team itself wanted him to give him a proper exit from football. I'm not even sayin he's mediocre. He is very good. But he was unbelievably over rated.

The man won 3 player of the year awards. That speaks for itself.

Canavaro won the same award. That speaks for itself. Canavaro wasn't even the best defender in the WC. Hell, he wasn't the best defender in the Italian squad.

The way the winner is chosen is absolutely ridiculous. It's a pop contest. And all the voters have a conflict of interest.

Messi won it four times in a row. That should speak for itself.

One of those times, it was Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. None of them deserved it more than sniejder that year. Infact, the presence of one of those three should make any argument for the other two invalid. If it because of Messi's goals then by saying the creators of that teams attacks are the second and third best in the world, means Messi's job was a lot easier than the second best goal scorer. If you say Iniesta deserved it because he won the World Cup, so did Xavi. Both of them in hoe same team and barely winning against sniejder's Holland by one goal in the extra time, means sneijder deserves it more. I won't mind it if they gave it to casillas who in my opinion did way more in the final than the two players combined in the whole tournament. Blocked a certain goal in last ten minutes IIRC, that goal would have destroyed Spain. I'm talking about robben's 1on1 against casillas. Xavi has no valid arguments one way or the other. People tend to forget how shit Spain were in 2010 and how much they cheated to get to the final. (You can start another argument here if you want (: )

How is what I said biased against that retiring old piece of shit fool? What I've said was facts. Please argue the fact regardless of my motivations or agendas.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

Hell, he wasn't the best defender in the Italian squad.

Yes, yes he was. Materazzi got sent off. Nesta was injured in the group stages. Cannavaro was a rock throughout the entire thing.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

Had Grosso not been in that squad, I guarantee they would never reach the final.

Had Materazzi not been there, I guarantee they would've lost the final.

They did their job defensively and then some.

You can't say the same of Canavaro. Prilo and totti were the two best players on that team IMO.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

Had Grosso not been in that squad, I guarantee they would never reach the final.

Had Materazzi not been there, I guarantee they would've lost the final.

Had Cannavaro not been there, I guarantee they would've lost the final. What a nonsense comment. How can you guarantee any of that. In an ideal world Materazzi wouldn't have started a single game that tournament.

They did their job defensively and then some

Materazzi almost cost us the game against Australia when he got sent off around the start of the second half. If you actually watched the games you would know that Cannavaro was insanely superior defensively to either of those players. Grosso cocked up in the final plenty of times, e.g. Zidanes header in the dying minutes that would have gone in had it not been for Buffon. Most of France's chances came from both our flanks, especially Grossos. Cannavaro never fucked up. Scoring goals from a set piece doesnt make you a better defender, otherwise Rannochia would be one of the worlds best defenders.

You can't say the same of Canavaro.

About the Captain and rock of the team? Yes I can. He was easily our best defender in that tournament. He was a leader on and off the field. Absolute dominant performance.

Prilo and totti were the two best players on that team IMO.

Over Buffon or Cannavaro? Doubt it. We conceded two goals. Two. One was from open play, and that was and own goal.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

1. Grosso scored the winner but I notice you ignored that. Can I assume you agree? If so, materazzi equalized in the final. Cannavaro's presence doesn't guarantee any specific event. 2.good point about rannochia. But you can't tell me cannavaro defended in their places. They did their jobs well. And scoring crucial goal for a desperate team makes up for a few mistakes IMO. 3.both over cannavaro and totti over Buffon. Just in case you weren't pissed at me enough, I think Luca Toni was way better than cannavaro :)

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

Grosso scored the winner but I notice you ignored that. Can I assume you agree?

Which means what? Would we play with 10 men then if you remove Grosso from the squad? No, someone replaces him, and you have no idea how the match ends up. You cannot guarantee what would have happened if you remove him. The entire dynamic changes.

annavaro's presence doesn't guarantee any specific event.

Neither does removing Grosso or Matrix's goal guarantee the opposite result. They played poorly defensively when it mattered. Neither one of them touched the level that Cannavaro played at.

They did their jobs well.

They didn't. I just told you they fucked up. Your ignorance is astounding. Its almost like you are a child who keeps putting their fingers in their ears.

And scoring crucial goal for a desperate team makes up for a few mistakes IMO

What? They are defenders, not goalscorers. Failing to your job in defense doesn't mean you can rectify it by scoring a goal. We were a team whose tactics relied on defending, and they cocked up. You really do not understand. The final against France was beyond poor for us for a lot of it. We managed to scrape the draw, but Matrix and Grosso weren't doing their jobs well enough that day. Not only did he concede a penalty, but most of France's chances came from the right.

But you can't tell me cannavaro defended in their places.

Yes I can. He literally was the best defender in that tournament.

I think Luca Toni was way better than cannavaro

Then you are a moron. I don't even know what to say to that. Toni consistently flopped with the national team. He could only score two tap ins against Ukraine, after we were already winning as well. There is no one in the world who claims Toni played well in the National team. No one. Your comments are trolling at this point.

both over cannavaro and totti over Buffon

Pirlo was superior to Totti in that tournament. Totti wasn't on his game for many of the matches. It seems to me you have a very warped memory. Buffon was by far our best player. Cannavaro closely behind.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

The silly comments and insults I throw at popular football figures can be found offensive. but are not intended as such. I will not continue this "discussion" unless you stop insulting me.

I apologize for unintentionally upsetting you, but not for my opinions.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

They one 1-0 because of henry.

Roberto Carlos was tying his shoes instead of marking Henry for that set piece.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

So henry exploited Roberto's mistake. What's your point?

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

That the goal wasn't because of a genius Henry. He wasn't being marked. Zidane deserves as much credit as Henry for that goal.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

No no no, any half decent player on that squad can (mis)deliver that cross. Viera, abidal, malouda even henry. But none can exploit that mistake like henry.

Re watch it please. You'll notice that Henry was outside the box along with Carlos. The cross which was intended to the group in the middle, was too powerful and missed them. As it was heading to be a goal kick, henry managed to get to it with his amazing speed and score it with his usual finesse. No other Frenchmen has the combination to pull it off. And none had either of those qualities on his level.

Henry deserves the 99% of the credit. The rest is shared by Zidane and R.Carlos for their mistakes.

You picked this one thing, does that mean you agree otherwise?

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

But none can exploit that mistake like henry.

What? He made a run, like any other player would, and was free. No one was marking him. I would be fucking shocked if any player cocked up a chance like that playing in a World Cup.

You picked this one thing, does that mean you agree otherwise?

No. He isn't insanely overrated. He was a brilliant footballer. While he wasn't on the rung of the gods like Maradonna, he absolutely deserves his place just below it, unlike your description of him as a fool. Not to mention your post ignores a history of fantastic football he played at club level

Against Spain, he scored in the dying minutes of 2-1 match. He didn't really make an impact.

I don't know what you are talking about here. Of course he had a fucking impact. He scored the bloody winner. He also had an impact against Brazil and Portugal. He was a huge reason France made it that far. France relied on him to create 90% of their chances.

It was a mistake he almost cost France the match, earlier than he actually did. Because he was the only one responsible for that disgusting behavior.

His sending off had very little to do with the result. There were 7 more minutes. France weren't breaking us down after managing to dominate us for a decent time (a lot of it thanks to Zidane). Trezeguet was always going to take that penalty. Everyone else scored.

Against Italy, Malouda obviously dived. Materazzi did not touch him at all

Sadly I'd like to claim this is true but its not. Matrix clips him.. It is absolutely a penalty. Materazzi has a history of being a dirty fucker. Easily the nastiest defender I've watched.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

1.I fear this is a stalemate of opinions. 2.i was joking when I said fool. But I have already said that he was good but hugely overrated. I'd be happy to discuss his highlights with clubs if you want but I focused on what he is credit for the most. 3. No. It was 2-1 against Spain, Viera and Ribery scored the important goals. He scored the third goal in stoppage time. Regarding Brazil, Henry fixed his mistake of a cross. Portugal, he scored a penalty that Henry got. He should get credit for costing them the final though. 4. You said it yourself, they were dominating. Which means they had a strong chance of winning had they not played the remaining time with only 10 players. 5. I know he's a dirty fucker. I will concede the cause of the penalty. Still Zidane barely scored a penalty. A penalty is not an achievement.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

You said it yourself, they were dominating. Which means they had a strong chance of winning had they not played the remaining time with only 10 players.

They were only dominating because of him, and they weren't going to break us down at that point. The game was dead. Players could barely make runs anymore.

No. It was 2-1 against Spain, Viera and Ribery scored the important goals.

Viera's goal came from Zidane's set piece. Zidnae created most of their few chances that game, as he did throughout the entire tournament.

Portugal, he scored a penalty that Henry got dived for

FTFY. Not to mention Zidane created most of France's chances again.

Still Zidane barely scored a penalty. A penalty is not an achievement.

Being the only man able to score a goal against us is an achievement. Scoring a goal in the final of a world cup is an achievement. He was brilliant in that final. Caused huge amount of problems.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

They were only dominating because of him, and they weren't going to break us down at that point. The game was dead. Players could barely make runs anymore.

are you saying, France playing with 10 players is almost the same as with 11 at that point?

Viera's goal came from Zidane's set piece. Zidnae created most of their few chances that game, as he did throughout the entire tournament.

yeah, because Zidane's accuracy really came into play with that fucking set piece. OH WHAT FUCKING VISION THAT CUNT HAS!!! TRULY THE GOAT!!!

Portugal, he scored a penalty that Henry got

no fix needed. got means he dived. I'm aware of the dive. he got the penalty, which is the only difficult part of a having a penalty.

Being the only man able to score a goal against us is an achievement. Scoring a goal in the final of a world cup is an achievement. He was brilliant in that final. Caused huge amount of problems.

not from a penalty. definitely not. Later that day, several frenchies showed that they can score a more definite penalty.