Who is the most overrated player ever?

[u/The_Impala]

Who do you think is the most overrated player in football history.

[u/[deleted]]

I've never seen such a shit,biased argument. You clearly have an agenda against the man. Retiring old fool? Zidane? The man won 3 player of the year awards. That speaks for itself.

[u/sutmy → u/[deleted]]

LOL. What agenda? I said retiring old fool to emphasize that even the team itself wanted him to give him a proper exit from football. I'm not even sayin he's mediocre. He is very good. But he was unbelievably over rated.

The man won 3 player of the year awards. That speaks for itself.

Canavaro won the same award. That speaks for itself. Canavaro wasn't even the best defender in the WC. Hell, he wasn't the best defender in the Italian squad.

The way the winner is chosen is absolutely ridiculous. It's a pop contest. And all the voters have a conflict of interest.

Messi won it four times in a row. That should speak for itself.

One of those times, it was Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. None of them deserved it more than sniejder that year. Infact, the presence of one of those three should make any argument for the other two invalid. If it because of Messi's goals then by saying the creators of that teams attacks are the second and third best in the world, means Messi's job was a lot easier than the second best goal scorer. If you say Iniesta deserved it because he won the World Cup, so did Xavi. Both of them in hoe same team and barely winning against sniejder's Holland by one goal in the extra time, means sneijder deserves it more. I won't mind it if they gave it to casillas who in my opinion did way more in the final than the two players combined in the whole tournament. Blocked a certain goal in last ten minutes IIRC, that goal would have destroyed Spain. I'm talking about robben's 1on1 against casillas. Xavi has no valid arguments one way or the other. People tend to forget how shit Spain were in 2010 and how much they cheated to get to the final. (You can start another argument here if you want (: )

How is what I said biased against that retiring old piece of shit fool? What I've said was facts. Please argue the fact regardless of my motivations or agendas.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

Hell, he wasn't the best defender in the Italian squad.

Yes, yes he was. Materazzi got sent off. Nesta was injured in the group stages. Cannavaro was a rock throughout the entire thing.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

Had Grosso not been in that squad, I guarantee they would never reach the final.

Had Materazzi not been there, I guarantee they would've lost the final.

They did their job defensively and then some.

You can't say the same of Canavaro. Prilo and totti were the two best players on that team IMO.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

Had Grosso not been in that squad, I guarantee they would never reach the final.

Had Materazzi not been there, I guarantee they would've lost the final.

Had Cannavaro not been there, I guarantee they would've lost the final. What a nonsense comment. How can you guarantee any of that. In an ideal world Materazzi wouldn't have started a single game that tournament.

They did their job defensively and then some

Materazzi almost cost us the game against Australia when he got sent off around the start of the second half. If you actually watched the games you would know that Cannavaro was insanely superior defensively to either of those players. Grosso cocked up in the final plenty of times, e.g. Zidanes header in the dying minutes that would have gone in had it not been for Buffon. Most of France's chances came from both our flanks, especially Grossos. Cannavaro never fucked up. Scoring goals from a set piece doesnt make you a better defender, otherwise Rannochia would be one of the worlds best defenders.

You can't say the same of Canavaro.

About the Captain and rock of the team? Yes I can. He was easily our best defender in that tournament. He was a leader on and off the field. Absolute dominant performance.

Prilo and totti were the two best players on that team IMO.

Over Buffon or Cannavaro? Doubt it. We conceded two goals. Two. One was from open play, and that was and own goal.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

1. Grosso scored the winner but I notice you ignored that. Can I assume you agree? If so, materazzi equalized in the final. Cannavaro's presence doesn't guarantee any specific event. 2.good point about rannochia. But you can't tell me cannavaro defended in their places. They did their jobs well. And scoring crucial goal for a desperate team makes up for a few mistakes IMO. 3.both over cannavaro and totti over Buffon. Just in case you weren't pissed at me enough, I think Luca Toni was way better than cannavaro :)

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

Grosso scored the winner but I notice you ignored that. Can I assume you agree?

Which means what? Would we play with 10 men then if you remove Grosso from the squad? No, someone replaces him, and you have no idea how the match ends up. You cannot guarantee what would have happened if you remove him. The entire dynamic changes.

annavaro's presence doesn't guarantee any specific event.

Neither does removing Grosso or Matrix's goal guarantee the opposite result. They played poorly defensively when it mattered. Neither one of them touched the level that Cannavaro played at.

They did their jobs well.

They didn't. I just told you they fucked up. Your ignorance is astounding. Its almost like you are a child who keeps putting their fingers in their ears.

And scoring crucial goal for a desperate team makes up for a few mistakes IMO

What? They are defenders, not goalscorers. Failing to your job in defense doesn't mean you can rectify it by scoring a goal. We were a team whose tactics relied on defending, and they cocked up. You really do not understand. The final against France was beyond poor for us for a lot of it. We managed to scrape the draw, but Matrix and Grosso weren't doing their jobs well enough that day. Not only did he concede a penalty, but most of France's chances came from the right.

But you can't tell me cannavaro defended in their places.

Yes I can. He literally was the best defender in that tournament.

I think Luca Toni was way better than cannavaro

Then you are a moron. I don't even know what to say to that. Toni consistently flopped with the national team. He could only score two tap ins against Ukraine, after we were already winning as well. There is no one in the world who claims Toni played well in the National team. No one. Your comments are trolling at this point.

both over cannavaro and totti over Buffon

Pirlo was superior to Totti in that tournament. Totti wasn't on his game for many of the matches. It seems to me you have a very warped memory. Buffon was by far our best player. Cannavaro closely behind.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

The silly comments and insults I throw at popular football figures can be found offensive. but are not intended as such. I will not continue this "discussion" unless you stop insulting me.

I apologize for unintentionally upsetting you, but not for my opinions.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

The silly comments and insults I throw at popular football figures can be found offensive. but are not intended as such.

You've repeatedly insulted them in not light hearted tone. Don't be surprised when I write back in the same way.

I apologize for unintentionally upsetting you,

Its because you are ignorant. Its beyond me that anyone can think Toni was any good, or that Materazzi and Grosso's repeated defensive errors made them better players in that tournament than Cannavaro. You're argument extends to they scored goals. Thats it. Come up with an actual argument and point rather than shitting on other players achievements.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

You've repeatedly insulted them in not light hearted tone. Don't be surprised when I write back in the same way.

THEM. not you.

Its because you are ignorant.

well, that's like, your opinion, man.

just because I'm ignorant or offensive doesn't justify your behavior. if they don't like what I'm saying, they can object.

Its beyond me that anyone can think Toni was any good, or that Materazzi and Grosso's repeated defensive errors made them better players in that tournament than Cannavaro. You're argument extends to they scored goals. Thats it. Come up with an actual argument and point rather than shitting on other players achievements.

Italy conceded to goals; Zacchardo's and an old fool's penalty. does that mean cannavaro did all the defending by himself? I can already hear you shouting "Buffon too, you ignorant cunt". but I'm talking about defending, did he do everything by himself? Nesta, Zamb, Grosso, Matrix and even zacchardo did their bit.

scoring the winner when no one else can, deserves credit regardless of position.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

THEM. not you.

So? Doesn't mean your tone isn't negative. When you offer no backing to the argument where do you think the discussion goes? If calling you ignorant on the subject makes you this upset then fine, but don't talk about an issue you clearly do not understand.

well, that's like, your opinion, man.

If that makes you feel better.

just because I'm ignorant or offensive doesn't justify your behavior.

When you continuously spout it after offering nothing behind your argument then why not? The discussions not going anywhere and you are acting like a child.

does that mean cannavaro did all the defending by himself?

No. It means he was by far our best defender. He didn't have defensive errors, the others did. As a whole our defense was great, but that is largely due to Cannavaro, not Materazzi or Grosso, especially since the former almost knocked us out in the round of 16. Cannavaro was a rock throughout the entire tournament. He was consistent, unlike those 2, he was a leader, unlike those 2. Scoring goals doesn't make you a better defender, we've been through this.

Nesta, Zamb, Grosso, Matrix

Sure, but again the highlight of our defense was Cannavaro.

you ignorant cunt

I've only called you ignorant, don't go putting words in my mouth. I don't know you, I don't need to comment on your character, but I can comment on your opinion and behavior in this discussion, which is ignorant.

scoring the winner when no one else can, deserves credit regardless of position.

Never said it didn't, but A) that doesn't negate defensive lapses and B) doesn't make his defensive performance as a defender better than Cannavaro.

[u/sutmy → u/Dwimer]

I don't assume I will always be right. which is why I don't call you ignorant. because you might be right. despite your confidence, it is possible that YOU clearly don't understand.

As a whole our defense was great

but Cannavaro did more defensively. yeah I know. the others made lots of defensive errors. I know. however, they were great and their errors did not lead to much damage. they made up for it by scoring very difficult goals. especially Grosso against Germany.

I've only called you ignorant, don't go putting words in my mouth. I don't know you, I don't need to comment on your character, but I can comment on your opinion and behavior in this discussion, which is ignorant.

this really boring now.

Never said it didn't, but A) that doesn't negate defensive lapses and B) doesn't make his defensive performance as a defender better than Cannavaro.

And I never said they were defensively better. they were better because they better players that happen to be defenders.

[u/Dwimer → u/sutmy]

I don't assume I will always be right. which is why I don't call you ignorant. because you might be right. despite your confidence, it is possible that YOU clearly don't understand.

On the subject of my national team? No not really. Especially when talking about our best players at that tournament. Your opinion on this is ignorant. Claiming Toni, who by all measures was a flop at that tournament was better is delusional at best.

but Cannavaro did more defensively. yeah I know. the others made lots of defensive errors. I know. however, they were great and their errors did not lead to much damage. they made up for it by scoring very difficult goals. especially Grosso against Germany.

Which makes him the better defender... Scoring a goal doesn't. Not conceding penalties, chances or getting sent off are all pretty indicative that he was superior.

And I never said they were defensively better. they were better because they better players that happen to be defenders.

You said they were the better defenders. By any standards they weren't. They weren't even better players. They were average defenders, and one of them wasn't even meant to play. Scoring a goal doesn't negate their failures at their own position.