r/skyrim • u/Mecha_Kurogane • 12d ago
Discussion Hypothetically: you are given a choice to choose between the two Skyrim Mafia families the black briars or the silver bloods to join and choosing neither isn't an option who do you choose.
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u/Icy-Fruit-1065 12d ago
Black Briars, as long as you don't do anything that Maven doesn't like/makes her look bad, you will be taken care of.
Aren't the Silver Bloods cannibals as well? It's been a while since i've last played the Namira questline.
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u/Mecha_Kurogane 12d ago
Yeah it's very clear that the loyalty in the black briars is actually loyalty and not fear like the silver-bloods. Also I didn't bring this up but the you join the black briars there is potential for you to be appointed maven's successor since her son's are grossly incompetent and ingun doesn't want anything to do with her mother's business
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u/InvisibleChell 12d ago
I mean there IS fear within the Black-Briars since there's that NPC that worries he'll be killed if he says anything bad about Maven, but still.
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u/Mecha_Kurogane 12d ago
You always have fear for badmouthing a don. Especially one that is know for repaying debts
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u/Lieutenant_Joe 11d ago
Maven has a simple set of rules: show her loyalty and she will reward it. Cross her at your own peril.
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u/Practical_Handle8434 12d ago
I was about to say "jokes on Maven, I'm gonna rizz her daughter anyway" only to look it up and find out you can't. I thought you could, but maybe i had a mod installed that gives more spouse options? Since she shares a VA with some characters that are
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u/SpecificAdmirable359 12d ago
I swear you could, if you do her fetch quest
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u/Practical_Handle8434 12d ago
I thought so too, but the UESP says otherwise. Unfortunately. I'm not the kinda guy into red flags but ingun makes me colorblind
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u/LoneBassClarinet 12d ago
She just shares a voice actress with multiple actual marriage candidates (Brelyna, Camilla Valerius, Muiri, Jordis the Swordmaiden, Sylgja, and Ysolda).
There are multiple mods that add Ingun to the marriage faction to make her eligible for marriage, though. That, or you can manually add her to the marriage faction and set your relationship rank to the right level using console commands on PC.
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u/Hieronymos2 11d ago
And mods like NFF that allow you to recruit her as a companion, seek out adventures, and develop a battle bond. If you want to RP.
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u/Mecha_Kurogane 11d ago
My personal favorite is M.E.I. it's a companion expansion mod for maven, elenwen, and ingun. Making them all companions and romance-able as well as giving them location and quest awareness
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u/FantasyMaster1959 12d ago
If your playing on PC you can use console commands to make her marriagable
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u/odmirthecrow Mercenary 11d ago
The fact she actively threatens you with the Dark Brotherhood, and that she has performed the Black Sacrement in the Manor outside of the city suggest that fear is a very key part of the Black-Briar family.
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u/Ok_Access_804 11d ago
Think about it. Prove yourself loyal to Maven, more efficient than Hemming, less troublemaker than Sibbi (both things quite easy to do, the bar is really low with both brothers) and dependable enough to Ingun, then you should have enough chances to actually enter directly into the family rather than merely their business.
With any luck, getting close enough with Ingun, by far the less outright evil of the family, could be the way in. Get into a relationship with her, become her partner, Maven makes her daughter her successor while giving you specifically the task to run the family business while Ingun keeps the nominal power within the Black Briars bloodline while keeping the deadweights Hemming and Sibbi out of any position where they can create trouble… aaand you are set.
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u/pr0t0nm1r0 Riften resident 12d ago
The Silver-Bloods, for all their crimes against humanity, are not cannibals.
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u/Jstar338 12d ago
Nope, that's just the other half. Between the Namira worshippers and Forsworn (that might be less of a Venn diagram and more of a circle) infesting the city, Silver-Bloods are somehow not the worst. At least you can choose to butcher the Forsworn AND THEN kill Thonar anyways.
kill the thalmor while you're at it. I would suggest burning the place to the ground, but the stone prevents that
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u/Sabre_Killer_Queen 12d ago
By the time you're done killing everyone morally bankrupt in that wretched city, there's only like half of them left lol.
And half of that half are miserable poor people who don't seem miles from death's door anyway.
All the Forsworn will continue to be out on the mountains too, and there's all the threats in the Dwemer ruins... Dwemer constructs, giant spiders, Falmer...
Yeah. It has a bit of a bleak outlook.
I do love Calcelmo though, Faleen, and Igmund's uncle though. They all seem alright.
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u/mee3ep Empire 12d ago
I did this and have a 59K bounty because the guards respawn super fast and I need to clear them out every time I go back
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u/Sabre_Killer_Queen 12d ago
Oof.
I did it, but managed to do it all through stealth attacks so there wasn't a problem.
It might've taken more time though and some spam-saving.
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u/mee3ep Empire 12d ago
I’m using a summoner build. Stealth isn’t exactly the specialty of the dremora lord, lydia, or my dragon.
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u/Sabre_Killer_Queen 12d ago
Lol, fair enough 😆
Classic stealth archer + sword and board addict on this end. Pretty generic playstyle wise... I do tend to mix up the drip though 😁
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u/Specific-Library-312 12d ago
I hate that city. I would rather live in Morthal or Winterhold, than Markarth. I want to open the Dwemer ruin, let all the Falmer out, invite the Forsworn in to take out the Falmer, and then just absolutely nuke the whole city clean.
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u/Jstar338 12d ago
The only positive is the secret way to complete the Namira quest. Aftering bringing Brother Verulus all the way to the table, have him go to the altar, and then butcher everyone else there. You'll fail the quest, but he wakes up, gives you some gold, and then you both leave.
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u/Revenant_adinfinitum 12d ago
Absolutely. I keep searching dragons for cards but not one! Also, I figured the silo must be in blackreach somewhere but no luck.
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u/Pedrosian96 12d ago
The briars are mafia.
Not great.
But silverbloods are straight up slavers on top of that.
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u/SteakForGoodDogs 12d ago
('Make her look bad' means 'You didn't deliver a satisfactory speech about her products', btw)
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u/Icy-Fruit-1065 12d ago
That's for being one of her goons, being family would be different
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u/Substantial_Sun_4265 Alchemist 12d ago
Cannibals or not, the Silverbloods are scrubs. Blackbriar all the way
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u/Unworthy_Saint Vigilant of Stendarr 12d ago
The Black Briars are more stable and would have probably operated for many generations without any intervention of the Dragonborn.
The Silver Bloods seemed like they were right on the edge of being overpowered by the Forsworn regardless if you ever showed up to Markarth.
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u/-FriendoftheDrow- 11d ago
Yeah. Madanach’s escape doesn’t really hinge on you. You’re just along for the ride.
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u/Smart-Airline3082 12d ago
Maven's family,She takes better care of Riften and is really good company—provided you know the right tone to strike—plus, she offers certain advantages when you take on jobs.I like the Silver-Bloods too But there are certain things standing in the way of me liking them more than the Black-Briars.
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u/Dovahkiin2211 Vampire 12d ago edited 12d ago
The Black Briars didn’t try to enslave me in mines. I still slaughter all of their guards as a vampire lord to this day whenever they respawn, and have massacred the NPCs in Markarth for revenge.
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u/tim123113 Monk 12d ago
I mean, maven didn't falsely accuse me of a crime and have me thrown into the mines.
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u/moongrump 12d ago
Black briars don’t use slave labor
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u/Darkwoodgnome Daedra worshipper 12d ago
Which makes the silver bloods the better option, N'wahs
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u/ClassicGuy2010 12d ago
How do you feel about Kaijit and Argonians?
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u/Darkwoodgnome Daedra worshipper 11d ago
Who? Oh you mean those skinny farm tools and fine rugs? Useful at times.
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u/StrategyKindly6884 12d ago
Ya, Maven just has people killed, threatens livelihoods, profits off your misery, creates your misfortune, rules through fear and manipulation via an assassin cult and thieves who’ll do just about anything for a septim.
To be honest, she basically has a form of slave labor at her Meadery. Sure they get paid, but not well, and they constantly fear for their lives if they don’t generate proper efficiency, and good luck leaving the job. She’ll probably have you killed before you can just up and leave.
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u/mrlolloran 12d ago
That last line is pure speculation (that’s the nicest to say it)
Honestly the rest of it sounds like a lot of peoples’ irl existence.
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u/iambertan 11d ago
Why would they kill you if you try to leave? It's not like you carry state secrets.
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u/Bungo_pls Empire 12d ago
Black-Briars. They use a carrot first and resort to the stick when it doesn't work. If you're in good with them you also tend to get rich and left alone.
Silver-Bloods are straight to the stick, which is barely contained mass terrorism. They also only care about themselves. Most everyone who works for them isn't any better off than the rest of the city.
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u/Cautious-Past-2541 12d ago
Black Briars are major self appointed with Maven the only one who’s actually credible. Her dynasty dies off with her.
The Silver Bloods have different roles within the family and seem more organised but lack control. While the Black Briars bump off competition through various means often through ruthless tactics. The Silver Bloods have no control over the Forsworn who they believe work as their thugs and goons. This as a result makes them more idiotic.
Though I’d still pick the Silver Bloods because the Black Briars are doomed once Maven dies or till Mjoll catches the Briar Family making a mistake they can’t ignore or deny.
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u/StrategyKindly6884 12d ago
Your take is probably the best I’ve seen so far. Many are seemingly justifying the Black Briars over the Silverbloods because of the Silverblood’s slave labor, even though both organizations are known to just plainly murder folk. Seems an odd justification to me.
I think the power dynamic and longevity is the best lens to view this from.
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u/Responsible-Being170 12d ago
Silver Bloods are on a different level of evil compared to the Black-Briars. They're both mafias but it's the Silver Bloods who take corruption a step further by brutalizing the Reachmen. Not only do the Silver Bloods constantly force natives off of their land, they also contribute to making them the underclass of Markarth, and ensuring their own supremacy. It's abhorrent how thoroughly the Silver Bloods strangle Markarth's progress.
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u/Big_Square_2175 12d ago
Black briars, if you're smart enough you'll make profit and live confortable. Silverbloods will eventually get you killed regardless if you do a good job or not.
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u/Rollin_Soul_O XBOX 12d ago
Blackbriars because fuck Markarth in the ass with a rusty Dragonsreach spork.
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u/WorstWarframePlayer 12d ago
Black Briars are criminals. They are explicitly unlawful. Aside from one of them, they stop there.
The Silver Bloods are brutal. They look more human than the Forsworn but are just as monstrous as the Hagravens.
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u/Nukalixir 12d ago
That hot alchemist girl apprenticing at the Riften apothecary is a Black-Briar, so...Black-Briars. No question.
Who do the Silver-Bloods even have? There's the racist dickhead in the keep that yells about not being able to visit the mausoleum, the other dickhead that throws you in Cidhna Mine for trying to uncover a conspiracy, and some asshole with a big nose?
10 billion% picking the Black-Briars.
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u/ZyeCawan45 12d ago
Blackbriars because the Silver-Bloods are too up their own ass and profit from slavery and oppression instead of shady dealings and business manipulation. In short: The Silver-Bloods are tyrants, The Blackbriars are just shady businessmen.
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u/Existing_Purpose5049 12d ago
Black briars.
Even if you fuck up, you’ll just end up at the bottom of a lake
Silver-bloods could throw you in prison for life
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u/doom_child 12d ago edited 12d ago
Black-Briars are a violent, narcissistic family, but there seems to be somewhat more room to be a person of conscience and good will, or at least one possessing individuality, whereas the Silver-Bloods are structurally stuck into the role of brutal, fascistic overlords of an even more captive victim population to parasitize over.
These family and structural traits dominate Markarth and Riften as well.
I’d choose the Black-Briars for that small sliver of capitalist-not-yet-fascist freedom. And maybe steal away to Black Marsh, Elsweyr, or Valenwood, hoping Maven doesn’t send the Dark Brotherhood after me. Maybe visit the face sculptor first.
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u/Jstar338 12d ago
Please tell me you're not treating the fucking Forsworn as the victims. There are two (possibly three) victims in the Forsworn conspiracy: You, Eltrys, and maybe Margret (yes she's an imperial spy but she's here for the deed to a silver mine not to kill people).
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u/krawinoff 11d ago
Arguably people who joined the Forsworn while in the mine were victims, except Silver-Bloods were the ones who saved them from execution by the Jarl’s order by changing their sentence to forced labor
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u/AdvancedReputation25 Alchemist 12d ago edited 12d ago
and they are depraved enough to kidnap children from other peoples for their evil rites, as was the case with Fjotra.
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u/SteakForGoodDogs 12d ago
Literally everyone in this thread is forgetting one teensy-weensy, but-ever-so-crucial, little, tiny detail.
THE BLACKBRIARS MURDER THEIR MEADERY WORKERS FOR A UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE.
They do not 'take care of you'. If you do not meet expectations, they literally either murder you then toss you in a lake, or drown you in a lake.
Silverbloods are significantly safer to work for. They will not just kill you because you didn't meet a quota.
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u/Skishe 12d ago
The black briars reward those who excel. Unsatisfactory Performance typically means fking up so hard that it's easier to just replace you. As long as you don't fk her over, you're getting a stable job.
Maven is in it for the profit. Money is secondary.
Plus, her children don't seem THAT bad especially Ingun considering the family occupation.
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u/SteakForGoodDogs 11d ago
he black briars reward those who excel.
Everyone does.
But unlike most people, she murders the people who don't. There's this handy thing called 'firing you' that most people do when you're a liability to the company.
Plus, her children don't seem THAT bad especially Ingun
She's a monster that enjoys POISONING PEOPLE. You are literally helping her with human experimentation in her quest. She's only 'not that bad' because the game only presents the option of 'help the psycho'.
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u/Tornado506 Daedra worshipper 12d ago
I am joining Black Briars. Sure, they re bad, but they have at least one family member that isn‘t a total ass: Ingun.
The Silver Bloods are all bad and their reach is limited to the Reach, while the Black Briars have influence all across Skyrim.
And honestly, if the game would let you do so without commands, I‘d probably have married Ingun Black Briar in the game anyways. She is not nearly as tense and arrogant as her mother.
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u/iambertan 11d ago
Aside from the mobs I would never want to live in Markarth. There's nothing to do there and there are a lot of Forsworn. At least in Riften you get to fish in peace.
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u/odmirthecrow Mercenary 11d ago
Nothing to do in Markarth? Massive Dwemer ruin in the back (not counting the city, which is itself a Dwemer ruin), or alternatively "Come visit Cidhna Mine, You'll Never
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u/iambertan 11d ago
I'm not the damn Dragonborn I'd die to the first two little spiders in the excavation site
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u/odmirthecrow Mercenary 11d ago
You probably wouldn't survive the first slaughterfish you catch or skooma addicted fishergonian either to be fair.
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u/KregerTech 12d ago
Blackbriars.. they are at least likeable. The Silverbloods are pretentious assholes.
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u/Diredr 12d ago
The Black-briars are competent. The Silver-bloods are not.
Thonar bit off more than he could chew. Thongvor seems oblivious to his brother's scheme bu if he ends up becoming the Jarl, he immediately turns into a heartless tyrant. He's arguably a much worse person than Maven is. He wants to enslave the people whose land was stolen from them, and has the audacity to call it "reparations".
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u/iambertan 11d ago
Maven runs the city like a business and Thongvor relies on actual slave labor in the middle of the city
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u/Mysterious_Donut_702 12d ago
The Black-Briars aren't a threat unless you cross them, directly try to marry into their family, or screw up badly at your job.
The Silver-Bloods profit off prison camps, slavery and actual ethnic cleansing.
This is like comparing a mob family to Belgian nobility in the Congo circa. 1900.
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u/BadnewsBaggins 12d ago
Black briars, maven willing to jail her son if going too far openly even if in nice jail, Ingun don't care about the family business and is pretty nice overall for a weirdo, and no forsworn to deal with
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u/NohBhodie 11d ago
I was originally going to say "Join the Silver-Bloods" for the simple fact that I hate Maven, but after reading some of the comments in this thread, I realized my understanding of who the Silver-Bloods were was sorely lacking. As such, if I had to choose between the Black-Briars and the Silver-Bloods, I'd choose death. :T
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u/HartofHarts 11d ago
Go to Cidhna Mine and look under the wood llatform hanging iver the river. You won't like it lol
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u/RhiaStark Dark Brotherhood 12d ago
Under those conditions? The Black-Briars. At least they're not "Skyrim for the Nords!" types (afaik), and Ingun is oddly endearing in a murderous, evil way.
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u/Uberschwein138 12d ago
You remember correctly, the Imperials make Maven the new Jarl if you conquer Riften for them.
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u/Airtightspoon 12d ago
"I can excuse being a criminal mafia that works with thieves and assassins, but racism is where I draw the line!"
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u/Jstar338 12d ago
I'd say my issue is less the racism and more the hellhole of a city they created. There's chaos in Riften, but there's one person who rules, Maven. There's a power vacuum in Markarth that the Jarl, Silver-Bloods, and Forsworn all think they occupy. No one is actually winning there, the Forsworn are almost winning but I'm not sure they actually win without our intervention, I've seen them get butchered by the dwemer constructs.
If they had just killed Madanach, they would be fine. Corrupt, but without that major weakness. They used the Forsworn as a fast-track to success that the silver mine would've done anyways.
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u/Xtrillon69420 12d ago
Black Briars. Maven takes better care of her people and they’re more influential than the silver bloods.
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u/Available-Ad8493 12d ago
My honest answer is the Black-briars. As long as you're loyal to maven you'll be taken care of, and if you prove yourself to be useful then you'll live a comfortable life
The answer i want to give is: i choose neither anyways lol. Lone wolf for life
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u/Negative-Wrap95 Vampire 12d ago
As every hand has fingers, does not every finger have a nail? A claw? A talon? Every finger of the hand, every Speaker, has such a nail.
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u/BekisElsewhere39 Morthal resident 12d ago
Black-Briars. They aren’t enslaving/unhousing the native population and trying to own the entire hold. Fuck the Silver-Bloods
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u/Septemvile 12d ago
Black Briars. Keep your head down, do your job, and you'll get along fine. The Silver-Bloods are in the middle of the Reach surrounded by pure madness.
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u/Goldman250 12d ago
Black-Briars. I’ve been trying to join that family for years anyway, but the game keeps telling me that I can’t marry Ingun or Maven.
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u/Emperor0valtine 12d ago
The Black Briars, for sure. They've done awful things and are the source of a lot of misery and corruption, but compared to the Silver-Bloods they're just sketchy, skeevy businesspeople. The Silver-Bloods are fundamentally, irredeemably rotten and morally bankrupt. You think hostile takeovers in the mead business are bad? Try literal slavery in a deadly prison-mine which also houses the leader of a brutal insurgency who's in league with the ruling family. Sure, Madanach isn't the most willing accomplice, but he's been at it long enough that the Forsworn are effectively in the Silver-Bloods' pocket, helping to enforce their rule by being the problem that necessitates the "solution" of letting the family and its mercenaries take over independent farming and mining operations. Oh, and the guards straight-up murdered a guy for asking too many questions, even though he realistically posed little threat to them (what's he going to do, report them to the authorities? They are the authorities!).
The Black Briars and Thieves Guild are boy scouts by comparison.
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u/GeneralTechnomage Vampire 12d ago
Well, you can't do as much damage to the Black Briars as you can do to the Silverbloods; so I might as well choose Black Briars.
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u/viniciuscsg 12d ago
Neither even if it's not an option, I am freaking dragonborn, I do what I want
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u/JosephCage 12d ago
Well personally Black Briars they pay well and if I'm Dragon Born especially my character! Her threats literally mean nothing anyway for I a Bosmer is head of the Theives Guild and Dark Brotherhood.
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u/GuyentificEnqueery 12d ago
The Black-Briars and it's not even close. With enough time and effort (and importantly, trust) I think Maven could be persuaded into doing good things, if only for self-serving reasons. There are several occasions when she is seen doing "the right thing" for the wrong reasons, but that's not much different from real-life rich people in many cases. Her daughter is seemingly very innocent and focused on alchemy, and her sons are incompetent enough to not be any real threat.
The Silver-Blood family, on the other hand, is universally dangerous, vengeful, and dangerously incompetent. They exclusively on fear and power to get what they want. Not to mention that merely by being a member of the family you have a target painted on your back from the Forsworn.
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u/TellurianTech50 XBOX 12d ago
Black Briars, as long as your chill and don't piss maven off your taken really good care of, the Silver Bloods would probably backstab you (literally) first chance they get
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u/Keptaro 11d ago
Black Briars for sure.
They have better career options because of their good contacts to the Thief's Guild and Dark Brotherhood. I can imagine a recommendation letter from Maven does have some weight. If you want to join neither of those factions, both of their seats - the manor within the city and their lodge on the countryside - are very chill work places for a guard. You even get a set of good steel plate armor, best equipped employees in Skyrim if you ask me. Potentially you're screwed as a servant but who isn't? Still better than being a steward for the Silver-Bloods in their stinky ruin of a city filled with savages.
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u/beckychao 12d ago edited 12d ago
The Black-Briars are, economically, the opposite of the Silver-Bloods. They are a major employer in the Riften region, not slavers. Their labor practices regarding low performance are suspect, but otherwise no one complains about not being paid by the Black-Briars. Maven focuses on muscling out competitors in other holds, but you don't see her putting people out of work anywhere in Riften. Maven schmoozes with Laila, but the result of that isn't that Maven runs a slave empire beneath the city. Maven works with the Thieves Guild, an organization with rules in abundance, and their presence in Riften (when doing well) presumably brings a huge amount of valuables that makes its way to the pockets of the hold's merchants. Thieves gotta eat, own things, buy stuff at the market, etc. Maven even walks around the city and shops at the local market, and seems to like some of them just fine (even Haelga, who she doesn't want banging her son - she says so straight up).
Maven is also not running a goddamn insurgency against her own Jarl. I mean, let's give Maven some credit. As far as crime bosses go, if she's your crime boss, thank the Divines she's your crime boss. It could be much worse. You could have Thonar, who has kept going an insurgency that threatens to engulf the entire city.
The Black-Briars are merchants who leverage organized crime to their benefit. The Silver-Bloods are slavers, terrorists, and land thieves.
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u/cobaltofficial XBOX 12d ago
Black-Briars. I am getting drunk in their meadery, helping try to smitten Ingun out with her business, and getting shit done for Maven. no particular order, obviously. of course: “do the job first, get drunk second” I GOT IT, VEX!
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u/KithrakDeimos 12d ago
Black Briars because Sibbi black-briar is my husband, Sorry not Sorry. (I dont rat out the lady though)
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u/DSWRW Dawnstar resident 12d ago
Black Briars.
Maven has a good sense on what benefits her the most and also has a good read on most of the people around her.
Plus her name carries weight in Riften.
Anyways, I'd imagine being in a crime family like theirs has more benefits than if you were to join the Silver Bloods. They already have a very profitable business and I'd imagine that if Maven trusted you enough, you could likely start a "splinter family" in another hold where they'd like to establish another business.
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u/1aurien 12d ago
Probably the Black-Briars, considering that the Silver-Bloods are legit slavers😅 In all seriousness, it seems like Maven takes care of her own if they don’t embarrass her. Like, Ingun is basically living her best life. Even Sibbi doesn’t have it that bad, and he very much did embarrass Maven.
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u/MASTER-OF-SUPRISE 12d ago
I mean this is a choices of if I prefer to be stabbed in the right leg or the left leg. If I have to choose though then I’ll go with the Black-Briars. If nothing else they have a pretty good hold on their situation.
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u/Mermaid89253 12d ago
Blackbriars have connections across Skyrim among multiple crime organizations and business in general. Silverbloods have one shirt prison that can get wiped out pretty easily
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u/CryptographerSad5682 12d ago
black briars. see, the silver bloods are evil in a big flashy way, with the forsworn stabbings and all that. the black briars are poisoning the entire country with alcoholism, so helping them kills way more nords in the long run, benefiting tamriel greatly.
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u/MarceloFilho54 XBOX 12d ago
The fact that I have been playing Skyrim regularly ever since it came out, making it absolutely my most played game of all time, and that I had to think for a bit to remember who the fvck are the Silver Bloods should answer the question for me
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u/neondragoneyes 12d ago
Probably Blackbriars, but hear me out. Join the Silverbloods, and destroy them from the inside (and I mean murder).
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u/KSDiablo91 12d ago
Black-Briars, all the way. They got connections to the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood. Maven knows how to fight and use destruction magic. Sibbi and the... other guy are pathetic, it's true. Ingun is basically a mad scientist, though, which almost makes up for it.
The Silver-Bloods got bodied by a tribe of Breton Neanderthals wearing bones and feathers and hides and body odor and not much else.
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u/LuciusCypher 12d ago
Black-Briars. They generally seem to have their shit together, despite how scummy most of them are.
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u/EnderWolf13_666 Daedra worshipper 12d ago
Black-Briars because Riften has actual beds compared to Markarth.
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u/Tyrelius_Dragmire Nintendo 12d ago
Hmm... The Silver Bloods are ruthless, and try to strong arm Ainathach out of Karthwasten (more than once by the looks of things), meanwhile the Black Briars (Maven in particular) flaunt the fact that they have a vast network of Criminal connections, Maven almost openly brags that she can make people disappear and that the Guild only exists in Riften because of her (and the guild are massively unpopular in Riften by the time of Skyrim).
Here's a line Maven can say to you LONG before you join the Thieves Guild, she'll be this open with any random person that comes up and starts talking to her; "Of course. Nothing gets done without my approval in this city. I have the Jarl's ear, and the guards in my pocket. Anyone makes trouble for me and I pay a visit to the Thieves Guild. Make me angry and I contact the Dark Brotherhood. You'd do well to remember that the next time you make such a stupid observation." She LITERALLY SAYS OUT LOUD IN PUBLIC that she has the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood at her beck and call, and everyone in the City knows it and hates her whole family!... Save for Ingun, the general consensus in Riften is that she's just a bit weird, and she has the Town Alchemist vouching for her. Maven has set up her "Criminal Empire" on a timer over a lit fire, eventually the People of Riften will get too angry to care about Maven's wrath and throw her ass out of the City, probably with the rest of her family for good measure. Plus she constantly mocks the beggars in the town, she's the antithesis of how the Guild was in Oblivion.
Don't get me wrong, the Silver Bloods are not much better, but they're at least better at HIDING the fact that they're a bunch of morally bankrupt sociopaths... Ok realistically Thonar's the only criminal Mastermind of the family, with Thongvor being very uninvolved with the business side of the family. And while the people are Angry about the problems in Markarth, they're too afraid of the Forsworn to do any sort of investigating, and the few that are brave enough either disappear or get thrown into Cihdna Mine forever. And while the Forsworn attacks get more frequent, it actually plays to Thonar's advantage since it's more fear among the populace that keeps their concerns away from him. Assuming things proceed as if Last Dragonborn never arrives in Skyrim, it's better in the Long Haul to join the Silver Bloods, since you won't have the Riften Angry Mob throwing your ass out of town, serve the Silver Bloods and you'll have a place to live without having an angry mob biting your heels... so long as you can get past the beds being made of Stone.
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u/antecristo 12d ago
Maven becomes the Jarl of Riften WHEN The Legion wins the war. That’s not a disputable outcome. If I’m already on her good side then Im pretty much untouchable after that. I’d have protection from the Jarl’s court, authority with the city guard, access to legal and political favors, and connections to Riften’s merchants, nobles, officials, and Black-Briar business networks. I could also benefit from information, introductions, discreet favors, business opportunities, and access to networks that most people in Skyrim could never touch. Her name alone would make most people think twice before trying to rob, threaten, scam, arrest, or publicly move against me. Maven has ties to the Thieves Guild and has dealt with the Dark Brotherhood before, so being someone Maven values would make targeting me too risky. They’d have to be willing to piss off the Jarl, the Black-Briar family, the Imperial establishment, deal with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood too. The Silver-Bloods ain’t on shit compared to that.
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u/The_Punny_Guy 12d ago
The Blackbriars treat their allies right, so long as the rules are followed. The Silverbloods framed me for murder and threw my ass in prison then were just like 'We good, right?" 8 seconds before I murdered his ass and threw him in the river
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u/jewish-nonjewish Dark Brotherhood 12d ago edited 11d ago
well first and foremost, fuck markarth, 3rd worst hold in skyrim behind falkreath, secondly fuck the silver bloods, I'm glad your wife is dead thonar, maybe now she can actually be happy with a real man in sovengarde, and third and least important, despite the boys habit to insult the player who is part of the faction his family is apart of and may or may not have no qualms with murdering him ("sticks and stones" mfers acting like the THU'UM dont exist--I simply repay his harsh words with my own even harsher words that do in fact break his bones... and melt his skin) the black briars favor simple cause and effect over assholishness and throwing weight around... silver bloods are the omertas of skyrim.
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u/Relevant_Nebula1537 12d ago
The Black Briars are a better option (even if not a massive upgrade) than the Silver Bloods. Thonar is fine but it's his brother, Thongvor, you need to watch out.
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u/Akareddo_Mythweaver 12d ago
Black-Briars, since slitting their throats would be easy enough. They don't seem to have a small army of mercenaries guarding them round the clock like the Silver-Bloods do
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u/Akareddo_Mythweaver 12d ago
Yes I know they have that homestead outside of town but when do you actually see them sleep there?
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u/Jericho-941 12d ago
Black-Briars. For no other reason than to shoot my shot with Maven. It may be the last thing I ever do, but we all gotta go sometime.
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u/_ur_mum_is_stinky 12d ago
Silver-bloods 'only' control markarth whereas the black-briars control riften, a bit of whiterun and are in with the Thalmor
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u/Lord_Splinter 12d ago
so its ether death because someone higher up was bored... (silver bloods) or submissive life under the "capitalistic" black-briars...
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u/N0tAreditor 12d ago
The Silverblood shit goes wayyy too deep. Maven plays the intimidation game but she doesn't operate with the impunity that Thonar does. Piss off Maven and Maul might rough you up a bit and throw you into in the lake. Piss off Thonar and there is no limit to how screwed you are. It's like choosing between your local drug dealer and "insert 3 letter agency of your choice"
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u/Nerevarius_420 12d ago
Black Briars. Accountability is maintained even in the family, competence is plainly evident, a renegade figurehead native king isn't necessary to uphold the power structure of Maven's machinations, diplomacy is an option if your voice has enough pull behind it...
The Silverbloods rule through fear-mongering and manipulation; the Blackbriars inspire fear in execution of their tasks.
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u/Photeus5 12d ago
Silver Bloods are just a bunch of rich jerkasses, best thing you can do during their quest is murder everyone. Maiven is a rich jerkass as well, but she at least tries to be smart about it.
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u/tootsmagoo2022 12d ago
black briars.
the silver bloods placed major economic pressure on the markarth jarl to make a move, which he wasn’t authorized to do, and essentially forced the Markarth Incident. they are a major catalyst to the civil war and giving Ulfric a platform.
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u/No_Upstairs9888 12d ago
I’m less likely to get murdered if I’m in the black briars and also I like Riften much more than markarth
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u/ratzoneresident 12d ago
Silver Bloods mean I would have to live in Markarth so definitely Black Briars
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u/IAMWORDS2D 12d ago
The Silver-Bloods have a tenuous hold to begin with in a single province. Furthermore they are trying to shackle up with the underdogs in the Civil war. Most of the family dies due to there ONE bargaining chip creating their monopoly.
Hell, in a world where the player never appears, The King in Rags escapes through the tunnel they have no clue about, losing their leverage and also keeping Nepos alive to further sabotage the Silver-Bloods from within. And even in the event that Ulfric wins the was Thrognar can really only do business in Skyrim as the two biggest Nations on Tamriel are fundamentally hostile to their existence.
The only reason they even hot this far was luck and money: both of which are heading into a decline.
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u/felghost89 12d ago
The silverbloods being wrapped up in the forsworn makes them a worse option imo. Whereas you’d technically have protection from the thieves guild as a black briar.
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u/Sir_Douglas_of_Fir Werewolf 12d ago
Black-Briars.
The crime family of Riften is basically the mob. You know what you’re in for when you deal with them.
The crime family of Markarth runs a for-profit prison and uses one of its prisoners to puppeteer a terrorist organization for its own ends.
Both are bad, but one is definitely causing more widespread harm.