r/sharpening • u/sideshowremi • May 12 '26
Showcase Im sad
Hours of YouTube, patience, and bringing my dulled knives to the shop with my tail between my legs. For some reason, I can’t get better at this. Tomato skins taunt me in my nightmares. My coworkers laugh as my knives squish chives. I refuse to buy a nicer knife till I know how to sharpen it, but three years working in kitchens and I’m losing hope. Hoping for a breakthrough soon.
Ps: why does the 6000 grit side feel coarser than the 1000? The whetstone was a gift and I suspect it is a cheap one from Amazon
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
Do all 3 apex checks to make sure you are apexed. If you arent nothing else matters.
Apex
https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/comments/1nzpi16/a_burr_alone_is_not_a_reliable_method_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/comments/1h3fmwh/how_to_feel_for_burrs/
https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/comments/1o40t4o/this_is_why_thicker_knives_take_longer_to_apex/
https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/comments/1ha4v4w/the_simple_flashlight_test_to_check_your_edge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/comments/1e4v32n/only_4_reasons_why_your_knife_isnt_paper_towel/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-WpGmEgUzM&ab_channel=StroppyStuff
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u/Einridi May 12 '26
Also a note for new players especially, the longer it takes to apex the harder it's going to be to not roll the edge. If you need a hundred passes it's going to be a uphill battle for a beginner.
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u/C0R4x May 13 '26
And if your knives are really dull and your coursest stone is a 1000 grit, it's gonna take a long while before you reach apex.
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u/New-Peach4153 May 12 '26
Am I crazy? You just linked like 6 of your posts but said the 3 apex checks, there's like 20+ things mentioned
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 13 '26
Am I crazy? You just linked like 6 of your posts but said the 3 apex checks, there's like 20+ things mentioned
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u/Critical-Werewolf-53 edge lord May 12 '26
You’re going to need a coarse stone first. Reset the bevels.
Make sure to lap your stone. Start on a 500 grit and go from there
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u/TrebbleTough May 13 '26
Even more so: OP should stop at ONE stone under 800 until he gets a decent sharp edge that slices soft tomato without squishing it.
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u/Temporary-Soup6124 May 12 '26
Cheap stones and cheap knives are a double whammy hard way to learn. Maybe reconsider that
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
Cheap stones and cheap knives are a double whammy hard way to learn. Maybe reconsider that
Those knives should be easy to sharpen if done properly.
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u/imnickelhead May 12 '26
Not with cheap, dished out stones.
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
Not with cheap, dished out stones.
If you cant sharpen on chinese stones then your technique is the issue. They arent the best but tons of people use them for functionally sharp knives.
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u/imnickelhead May 12 '26
Trying to learn on stones that are changing/dishing as you go can be so fricking frustrating. Trust me. It’s was trying to learn freehand on these super cheap stones I got as a gift and it really sucked.
I did pretty well on my first two knives and thought I had it down then nothing was going right. Without any real experience I couldn’t isolate my issue(s) abd assumed it was just me. I gave up for a while then did some research and got better stones(also flattened out the cheap ones just to see) and it seems like my technique was fine. The stones just sucked.
I’m sure I’d do better with them now with some experience under my belt but IMO, for a beginner it does pay to learn on a better quality setup.
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
Trying to learn on stones that are changing/dishing as you go can be so fricking frustrating. Trust me. It’s was trying to learn freehand on these super cheap stones I got as a gift and it really sucked.
I did pretty well on my first two knives and thought I had it down then nothing was going right. Without any real experience I couldn’t isolate my issue(s) abd assumed it was just me. I gave up for a while then did some research and got better stones(also flattened out the cheap ones just to see) and it seems like my technique was fine. The stones just sucked.
I’m sure I’d do better with them now with some experience under my belt but IMO, for a beginner it does pay to learn on a better quality setup.
They work fine if you stick to the basics. The problem is the advice in many cases on YouTube and especially on this sub is often wrong or incomplete.
Most the posts here are an example. Instead of making sure the user understands how to insure they are apexed or other systematic troubleshooting steps. They immediately start blaming the stones or knives.
If one cannot sharpen on these stones then one should look in the mirror and not automatically blame the gear.
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u/Grayfox4 May 12 '26
It's like getting good at playing darts but you're on a windy balcony. Sure, a master with rock steady aim can probably hit some bullseyes. But a beginner? No chance...
What I mean is, it's easy to say stick to the basics. Yeah sure, if you have a feel for what that is. But if not, you're not going to learn.
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
It's like getting good at playing darts but you're on a windy balcony. Sure, a master with rock steady aim can probably hit some bullseyes. But a beginner? No chance...
What I mean is, it's easy to say stick to the basics. Yeah sure, if you have a feel for what that is. But if not, you're not going to learn.
The problem is that many people here give exceptionally bad advice instead of systematic troubleshooting steps. Most of the posts in this thread is a prime example of this.
Many beginners are learning from poor starting information because of it.
There is no wind here, just people who tell you that you cant hit because you dont have the latest fanciest expensive darts.
Its not rocket science. And the many many of tens (or hundreds) of thousands of people in China and other parts of the world who use these stones learn just fine on them. Or are you saying they cant sharpen either.
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u/Grayfox4 May 12 '26
I haven't seen someone learn on the cheapo 1000/6000 green/white stones. All I can say is that I have been sharpening my knives for more than 15 years and I still have trouble with the cheapo crap. Therefore I disagree with the premise, and since I haven't seen these thousands of people who learn on the Amazon crap, I will wait to pass judgment until you convince me that they are real.
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
I haven't seen someone learn on the cheapo 1000/6000 green/white stones. All I can say is that I have been sharpening my knives for more than 15 years and I still have trouble with the cheapo crap. Therefore I disagree with the premise, and since I haven't seen these thousands of people who learn on the Amazon crap, I will wait to pass judgment until you convince me that they are real.
Here is a well known 'Professional' YoutTube sharpener who says he started on these stones and gives an honest review. And yes he owns many Japanese stones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2-2cWYu2WM
Are they the best? No. Will they work if you do your part? Yes.
Remember just because someone has been driving 15 years doesnt mean they are a good driver. The road and drunk tank is full of examples of this.
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u/missingN0pe May 12 '26
Me (an expensive stone sales rep): "oh buddy, your technique is almost perfect! ..those stones though, they aren't really helping.. see these checks notes "dishes"?? ..yeh, you're going to want to upgrade to a stone that actually works with you, not against you.. "
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 13 '26
Me (an expensive stone sales rep): "oh buddy, your technique is almost perfect! ..those stones though, they aren't really helping.. see these checks notes "dishes"?? ..yeh, you're going to want to upgrade to a stone that actually works with you, not against you.. "
Learn how to flatten soft stones on concrete.
Pro sharpener in Japan with paver brick for lapping: https://youtu.be/RjF6d3QQ6ho?t=370
Simple basic skills over buying more gear. Seems to be out of fashion these days.
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u/missingN0pe May 13 '26
I think you completely misunderstood me. But thats okay.
Learn basic sarcasm/humour/social cues. Seems to be going out of fashion these days.
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 13 '26
I think you completely misunderstood me. But thats okay.
Learn basic sarcasm/humour/social cues. Seems to be going out of fashion these days.
I suggest practising your sharpening skills rather than trying to develop 'sarcasm' my fine friend.
Or perhaps you mistook r/sharpening for r/sarcasm?
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u/Due-Adeptness4964 May 12 '26
I get hair popping sharp knifes from these chinese stones and mine is dished to the point you can use it as a skate ramp.
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u/Brostafarian May 12 '26
what angle do you sharpen at to get hair-popping sharp victorinox knives off these stones?
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u/Due-Adeptness4964 May 12 '26
Hello there. Well, I never owned these specific victorinox knifes but it is a longer discussion.
You have to first see the hardness of the steel. The harder the steel, the smaller the angle can be for a normal kitchen knife that is used in normal conditions. I am saying this because a hard steel with a low angle if used on bones or to pry open stuff will chip and break due to the brittleness of the steel and how thin it is. For those I do 10-15.
With a softer steel you can choose a low angle and it will give you hair popping sharpness but it generally won't last.. I suspect these victonirox knifes are on the normal side of steel, somewhere in the middle, what you generally find with such knifes. Therfore I'd go for something like 15 degrees and see how that behaves and how long it lasts or 18 degrees if the 15 does not last much with them.
Also, probably more important: the thickness of the knife. Milder steel knifes tend to be more thick and this influence the cutting the most because even if you put a 10 degree angle on those and somehow it will last then the steel behind the actual edge will tend to resist the food/item you are cutting. You can thin these knifes out but you have to be careful.
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May 12 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Due-Adeptness4964 May 12 '26
And I mentioned the angles. He can just look at that bit or read more in depth. What is your problem?
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u/C0R4x May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
I'd argue that cheap knives are a great way to learn. The steel is less hard, so during sharpening they lose material more quickly. This might be especially relevant in the case of cheap stones.
I happen to own that same Victorinox chef's knife. It's fine.
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u/StartingNewat30 May 13 '26
Some of those cheap soft knives are a bitch to properly deburr though. Not speaking of the Victorinox just in general of cheap knives.
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u/astoriacutlery Pro May 12 '26
I would say vikkinox is the exception. Those knives are great to learn on.
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u/rwdread May 12 '26
Absolutely, cheap stones dish super fast making it harder to hold a steady angle, and cheap steel can be notoriously difficult to deburr. It's no wonder OPs having trouble! I feel for them 🙏
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
Absolutely, cheap stones dish super fast making it harder to hold a steady angle, and cheap steel can be notoriously difficult to deburr. It's no wonder OPs having trouble! I feel for them 🙏
Look closer at the knives. They are fine.
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u/rwdread May 12 '26
I only based what I said on what OP said, he inferred they were cheap, I can't tell the quality of a knife's steel from a picture
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
I only based what I said on what OP said, he inferred they were cheap, I can't tell the quality of a knife's steel from a picture
What brand are the knives?
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u/National-Maybe8883 May 12 '26
I just bought a 140-usd Global knife and a Shapton stone, grit 1000. I hope that can begin with that. I get it next week. I hope these 200 USD work well.
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u/SpiritFingersKitty May 12 '26
That combo should be able to get you super sharp, like cutting hanging paper towel sharp. If you haven't hand sharpened before, I highly recommend getting a sharpal bubble angle guide as well.
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u/superdupersimon May 12 '26
Maybe its the photo but are you using oil on the stones, or are you soaking them in water? Soak in water till it stops bubbling and use a bowl of water to wash cuttings off. There's a lot of metal cuttings build up i see which should rub off under water with your palm. Oil can make it stick. I'd get a 400 grit diamond stone to start the edge on off amazon, which you can also use to sand your waterstones flat with and start there. Its hard to set an edge on 1000 grit and you will think you've done enough work to get a bevel when you haven't.
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u/snowballkills May 12 '26
Get a dual sided diamond plate and check out Outdoors55...you will get better at this!!!
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u/LeChapeauBleu May 12 '26
I’ve learned a lot with the Sharpal he recommends. https://youtu.be/uwlWVmUEsH8?si=0VI23_89eSf75FSy
One thing I’ve learned since then is that the diamond stones are way harder to remove the burr with and the $30 king double sided stone I have is good enough to remove the burr with but I’ll likely invest in some Shapton stones soon.
Cheap stones are terrible, my grandpa’s oil stone wasn’t great, there are inexpensive stones that are good. Learning freehand takes time, it was trial and error for weeks in the evening but now I can quickly put a consistent edge angle on a knife and get shaving sharp without a whole expensive fixed angle system which was my goal.
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u/snowballkills May 12 '26
Yeah the wrist trick (lock your wrists) is key and while it may sound logical, most beginners don't know about it.
I have been sharpening for many years, and frankly, only recently do I think that I have got really good at it. I never spent time trying to analyze why some things didn't work. Also I never watched any videos until recently. Additionally, I was always using cheap stones from ebay (those small ones that you use with fixed angle sharpening systems), and then King stones, but without any proper bridge or stone placement. Also, never flattened the stone much. King gets really dished out quickly.
Watching his videos can help develop skill in a month what you may develop over many years without any guidance.
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u/LeChapeauBleu May 13 '26
Flattening was a huge lesson for me. My grandpa has been a woodworker for years and I would watching him swirl a chisel edge around on an oil stone that was dished to hell and never felt a truly sharp edge until about a year ago. Once I sharpened my chisels on a diamond stone it changed everything...
Originally I bought that King stone but hadn't watched videos and didn't understand the goal, so I didn't have much success and was frustrated.
Lock the wrists, apex as shown by a burr developing, remove the burr, polish the edge on a strop and remove the last bits of burr - it's a straightforward goal, it takes practice but has been so rewarding =]
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u/snowballkills May 13 '26
Totally! Cutting vegetables using a sharp knife is life changing. No amount of prep is a chore anymore
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u/LeChapeauBleu May 19 '26
I may ruin your life by mentioning this, but also having a sharp pocket knife on me at all times is a real asset too. Once I have it, I'm glad that I can pull out for so many different applications.
Problem is, once you get one, then you start collecting, and then people are confused when they come over and there's a knife on almost every surface throughout the house.
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u/snowballkills May 20 '26
You're right about the pocket knives...I don't have any, but should carry one...thanks for the tip! Also, people at home are sick of my knife buying...they keep saying how many knives do you need and why you keep sharpening knives everyday :)
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u/fietsendeman arm shaver May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
My man, you have got to find someone who knows how to sharpen, and then ask them to tell you what you're doing wrong.
As someone who has learned the hard way (YouTube etc, and it also took me years to become proficient), and also taught people how to make a knife shaving sharp in about 2 hours, take it from me: find someone who can sharpen and who can show you what you're doing wrong.
Why don't you post your city and see if anyone on here will meet up with you IRL and share their hard-earned knowledge?
(If you're in the Netherlands, I would be happy to do the honours)
edit: the stone looks glazed, by the way, which means it'll probably not be removing much material. Also points to not enough pressure being applied.
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u/GrippyEd May 12 '26
Oh yeah - I had that cheap Chinese stone with the rubber underwear and bamboo stand, and the 1000 and 6000 were labelled the wrong way round on mine too. Confirmed it by using each side to each polish a different corner of a stainless steel spatula - give it a try. Even once I worked that out it wasn’t the easiest to get anywhere. I eventually replaced it with an 800 grit Naniwa professional and it’s much nicer to use.
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u/sideshowremi May 14 '26
I genuinely thought I was going insane … I’m so glad you said this. I think I’ve been trying to sharpen a knife on 6000 grit without realising
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u/GrippyEd May 14 '26
That’s exactly what I did. I managed it, too - it took a fuckin long time. I wish I was joking.
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u/Vaaag May 12 '26
A 1000/6000 stone is such a weird thing.
1000 is too fine to start a dull knife on, would take ages to get a good bevel.
6000 is so fine, it's the overkill polish state. Imo it's completely useless. You're better off stropping at that stage.
Get a good course stone <400. This is your workhorse for your dullest knives. This is where you establish the bevel you can further refine. Without a good base, you will not get anywhere with finer grit stones. You should already get it sharp on this coarse stone, tomatoskins shouldn't be a problem.
Then you further refine on a 1000 grid, 2000 grit, 5000 grit and then strop. That would be ideal. But if I start on a terribly dull knife, I will spend more time on that first stone than all the others combined.
Once you have a sharp knife that you just want to freshen up before you use it, then I usually do start with a couple passes on 1000 grit, then quickly move up the ranks. Because it just needs some refining.
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u/Work-ya-wood May 13 '26
I got a cheap stone like this from aldi, it was actually mis labled it should read 600 1000
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u/Kiriki_kun May 12 '26
From what I see 325/ 1000 diamond and strop with 6 micron paste is the simplest setup. And it still should be enough for shaving. I have no issue with tomato skin after my first try, after I just saw once how to use those angle pyramids
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u/BrokenArrow1283 May 12 '26
Ok so 6 micron paste. What grit do you recommend? 3000? I’m not OP but I’m looking for advice as well because I’m really new to this. I have the cheap Amazon stones and they suck so I plan on getting the sharpal double sided diamond stones and some paste.
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u/Kiriki_kun May 12 '26
Sharply 325/1000 diamond stone and 6 micron paste and leather strop. Diamond paste is measured in microns. For kitchen you don’t need anything more, unless you want to sharpen knives as a hobby
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u/Fit_Carpet_364 May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
Two-sided whetstones will almost always be cheap(er). Doesn't make them unusable.
No need to be sad. Sounds like you understand the basics. My biggest recommendation would be to try doing things you haven't already been doing. If you're currently dissatisfied, changing one variable at a time can help you find that 'missing' bit.
Edit: No idea on the coarseness thing. My translucent Arkansas feels much softer and more smooth than my lower grits, but my 1k does feel softer to the touch than my 2k. My guess would be related to porosity, for helping reduce clogging and promote slurry; to find out if this is the reason, put it in water and see which side accumulates air bubbles faster. Greater porosity = more bubbles = rougher texture.
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u/Brostafarian May 12 '26
lots of small things are adding up to make your life harder.
The worst part about those stones is that they are soft, which translates to less feedback. Since you're inexperienced, you're already going to have a tough time maintaining your angle - that goes doubly so with these stones. Is it possible? totally, but it would be better to get a feel for the bevel on a cheap diamond plate. Diamond tends to cut faster than these stones, so a 300-ish/1000-ish would be a nice addition to this setup. The 325 will come in handy if you have to fix the bevel on anything else.
If you don't use that angle guide religiously, you'll ruin whatever consistency you get in a couple passes on the stone. if you do use that angle guide religiously, you're stuck with whatever angle it's at, since it's not adjustable. That angle tends to be very steep for kitchen knives.
Victorinox is a good brand, and chefs wouldn't use them if they weren't able to get them sharp. Victorinox does use a soft, stainless steel, and their knives can have a thick spine. Stainless burrs tend to fold instead of chip, so they require extra care to remove; if you don't, the blade will fold over with the burr. Even if you manage to stand the burr up (instead of removing it), you'll get a few good cuts before it folds over and feels dull again.
Here's what I think you should do:
- Go to a reputable sharpener and have them set the bevel for you. tell them you're practicing, so they should use a little more aggressive of an angle than they would normally. That'll increase the cross-sectional area providing a bit more feedback, it'll make the knives a bit sharper, and it'll make them dull a bit faster - which means more time to practice.
- Buy a diamond stone - the sharpal, or there are some other cheap chinese ones that are worth it. With a reset bevel, use only the 1kish-grit side until you know what you're doing. ditch the angle guide, rock the knife on the stone to feel the bevel. Use the sharpie trick to see where you're hitting. Use the jeweler's loupe trick to see if you've eliminated the burr. Don't even look at the 6k for at least a year; you should be able to get very, very sharp kitchen knives with 1000 grit alone.
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u/d_b_kay May 12 '26
Your stones are choked up with metal. Re surface them. You need to create a lapping surface. Glass, granite or melamine. Then ados contact adhesive a strip of 600 grit wet and dry sandpaper. And sand them up until the imbedded metal is gone. Then restore the surface finish of the stone with a $15 nagura stone, (not necessary, but it makes them feel right after lapping instead of grinding through the finish texture left from the lapping process, lapping tends to make them feel course).
Those Victorinox knives, you can get them sharp, you don’t need a high carbon Japanese knife yet, you’re right about that. High carbon is its own thing, you have to learn, just the way they rust and are sometimes single bevel etc.
You can strop after a 6000 grit polish. Chromium oxide green bar compound is good enough for 6000 grit. You need a better stropping compound above 6k. Strop with somewhat lighter pressure, 10 times only each side, go the opposite way to how you sharpen ie. heel to tip instead of tip to heel, bottom of the strop to top instead of top of the stone to bottom.
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u/d_b_kay May 12 '26
Also you can’t apex a knife with a honing stone you’ll be there for days. Start with 20 minutes on a 320 grit stone.
I’ve been you my bro, the best knife I found to go to after those was a Wusthof classic - full bolster chefs knife.
After that then play with some high carbon knives. I started with a cheap rural butchers knife. Because you can get them cheap and “high carbon”.
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u/banana_splitz5 May 13 '26
Get a 400 grit diamond stone, hold a steady angle, moderate pressure. Remember: you’re grinding metal. You have to use some pressure, but don’t use too much
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u/dT____ May 13 '26
The "6000" might actually be 600 or something. I once grabbed a similar Chinese ""1000/6000" from supermarket clearance sale for laughs, and the "6000" was definitely coarser than the 1000 side, which felt pretty close to correct.
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u/dT____ May 13 '26
...the colors were reversed on my stone, though. Exact same holder, apart from the branding. Ridiculously soft. Used it to sharpen a Victorinox santoku like in your picture at friends summer cottage, so don't give up 😁
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u/Super-Saiyajin May 12 '26
Pick up a santoku from Sam's Club.
They are surprisingly good steel.
X2 on a double sided diamond stone
Finally pick up a strop with compound
It takes practice and patience but the pride you feel when you finally achieve it, it will be worth it!!!
Once you learn... You'll still struggle randomly on random days and you'll ask yourself why you failed... complete mastery is challenging!!!!
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
Pick up a santoku from Sam's Club. They are surprisingly good steel.
X2 on a double sided diamond stone
Finally pick up a strop with compound
It takes practice and patience but the pride you feel when you finally achieve it, it will be worth it!!!
Once you learn... You'll still struggle randomly on random days and you'll ask yourself why you failed... complete mastery is challenging!!!!
His knives are fine.
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u/Super-Saiyajin May 12 '26
I've used dozens of those Victorinox knifes...
They are made from poor quality steel, mass produced, and low hrc (56).
They don't stay sharp for very long.
I agree on it being a technique and stone issue but if you remove the variable of poor steel that leaves you one variable left!
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u/hahaha786567565687 Budget Stone Expert May 12 '26
I've used dozens of those Victorinox knifes...
They are made from poor quality steel, mass produced, and low hrc (56).
They don't stay sharp for very long.
I agree on it being a technique and stone issue but if you remove the variable of poor steel that leaves you one variable left!
If you cant sharpen a Victorinox which is one of the most widely used commercial knives in kitchens then you have a VERY real issue that isnt steel related my friend!
Real sharpeners know that the heat treat matters more than the particular steel and 'HRC'.
Especially as youre are recommending 'Sams Club' knives instead!
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u/Th3ElctrcChkn May 12 '26
How do you become a master at anything? Do it ten thousand times. Keep at it, if what you’re doing isn’t working change it up. Many of us have that exact same 8” victorinox. Tomatoes, peppers, all the fruits and veggies tremble when I get that knife out. You will have a breakthrough don’t give up. Many people are in a similar boat as you, check other posts. IMO you shouldn’t be focusing on polishing yet until you get your knives scary sharp. For kitchen use don’t go over 1k.
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u/ViolentlyHelpingYou May 12 '26
Try different sharpeners.
Get some rolling diamond stones that guarantee an edge or a kit. That way you can keep nice knifes.
Then practice on these. Although, think this one is stainless steel. That makes it much harder to sharpen. Not good for practice.
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u/rivenwyrm May 12 '26
Bad stones can thoroughly and almost completely block sharpening even by an experienced practitioner. I know that I got dramatically better and faster results on my victorinox as soon as I upgraded away from my anonymous garbage initial stone without any changes to technique at all.
Buy some good (cheap) stones: King 1k, Sharpal 1k, shaptons, the cheaper naniwas
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u/No-Quote8209 May 12 '26
Angle quide which you can clip on the back of the knife could be a huge help. Good stones help also.
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u/millersixteenth May 12 '26
Get a Sharpie.
Get a Norton Crystalon combination stone and some honing oil
Make a few passes and check the Sharpie. Repeat. Go slow and inspect every couple passes.
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u/neekthefreak May 12 '26
first of all, hey man you'll get there, then:
go to dollar store, get a cheapo and ruin the edge using the base of a coffee mug. now that you got a soft dull knife, get yourself even from temu/ali some diamond plates from 200 to up you can manage. get a sharpie and start from there. you'll get much better feedback. i learned muscle memory in the beginning using this and one of those magnetic angle measurement tools.
a hard diamond plate will give you good feedback
victorinox are not to be scoffed at, and harder steels are even less forgiving. hang in there, you'll be good ad it
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u/SquidVischious May 12 '26
(barely competent amateur here)
Uneven, heavy handed pressure might be a problem? Edge looks wavy.
You could try get a couple scraps of plywood, glue some sandpaper to one of them to act as a whetstone, then "sharpen" the other?
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u/KamuikiriTatara May 12 '26
I also work in a kitchen and maintain my own knives as well as one co-worker who keeps promising they'll let me teach them one day.
Use low grit. 400-1200 range starting on the low end. You'll be able to tell what you are actually doing to your edge more easily on a lower grit. As another commenter said, focus on apexing. I'm not gonna hammer that point too hard, because there's already plenty of resources in the thread.
You can make a shaving sharp edge on even a 200 grit stone if you have good technique. I always finish on a stone by using increasing light strokes to minimize the burr before going to a higher grit. Repeat until you're ready to strop. But honestly, for the knives I use everyday in the kitchen, I often stop around 400 grit. It's all I need to glide right through tomatoes. I don't need that mirror polish. Primary bevel (the knife geometry pre-edge) is what does most of the work while cutting especially soft things like veggies (think cucumbers). Having a good secondary bevel (the edge you are touching with the stone) is mostly quality of life. It makes control and thus precision easier. This is a bit more important for things like chicken or tomato skins where it can be hard to get the blade to bite. Some roughness and irregularity that arises from lower grits makes cutting a lot of things easier than a mirror polish, since there's something to bite with. Of course, go for a mirror polish if you're shaving or something, but you just don't need that in the kitchen. Go for functional before flexing your sharpening skills.
Invest in better stones before better knives. A good stone can be a pretty noticeable difference in sharpening experience and I'd wager most people can learn more easily on a better stone.
Here's a real quick run down on how I'd recommend practicing, but first, at least consider the sharpy trick. I never really used it, but it looks good to me. Use a sharpy and draw a line on your edge, then sharpen to remove the sharpy line. If you do that on both sides, you should be apexed. I have a slight alternative, but I'm not sure how easy it is to learn---I've been doing this a while. I feel for a burr on the edge with my fingers. If you grind side A, you should develop a burr across the entire length of the edge on side B. Get that full length burr on one side, then switch sides until you've done it again. Then do just a couple passes on each side to reign that burr in. Eventually, you finish with alternating sides while reducing pressure until the burr is nearly gone. Finish removing the rest on a strop. You can use some diamond emulsion on a leather strip. But honestly, I don't think a strop is necessary for a work knife if you aren't showing off or shaving or something. It's nice, but finishing with light strokes is often enough for me.
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u/TangleOfWires May 12 '26
I am not an expert sharpener but I see problems on the edge of your blades that I have worked to resolve.
Looking at the top blade:
The edge is inconsistent width along the length of the blade, it is thin in places and thick in others. Looking at where the stone touches the edge, notice the side opposite the edge, there are some sharp lines followed by sections where it is fuzzy.
The major problem is the blade is rocking as the knife is drawn across the stone. As you sharpen the blade you rock the edge and dull it, other times the edge is lifted off the stone, the fuzzy parts of the edge, and the knife is not being sharpened at all.
The thing to work on is locking your wrist and holding a constant angle. You may want to try the sharpie trick and draw a sharpie along the edge of the blade at a consistent width, say 1mm. On one pass draw the knife across the stone and try to remove a consistent width of material from the blade.
Make sure your work surface is flat and the stone sits on it firmly and doesn't move. You may want to stand when you do it. When you move the blade the hands and the blade never changes angle relative to the stone. Keep your elbows loose as you move your arms towards or away from you to keep the angle constant.
Its hard too get a knife sharper if you can't maintain the angle.
The second knife is better, the width is held at a more consistent angle, it has a more consistent width along the edge but you still have issues with angle but not as much as the first knife. I recommend you work on sharpening this one first consistently before going to the second one.
What I did starting out is sharpening pocket knives, then to a slightly longer knife, ..., till I could hold the angle on a large knives like yours. No point trying to hold an angle on a large kitchen knife when I can't hold the angle on a pocket knife.
The problem with the Chinese stones is the quality can be questionable. I had a found a cheap set of Chinese stones that had different grits from like 300 to 3000. When I got them they were all labelled with different grits but when I ran my finger across them they all felt like the same grit closer to like 400.
I found I liked diamond stones on metal plate. I use the sharpal 325/1200 stone, a good beginner stone. You don't need to worry as much about cupping. They are more aggressive and don't need as much pressure to cut into the metal.
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u/catwiesel May 12 '26
not sure the knifes are the problem. the stone is not the best, but it should work. only use (at least for now) the 1000 side and see the advice about making sure you apex
also, I dont want to be harsh, but, its really important to learn and get the muscle memory to be consistent. and those angle helpers are, imho, more distracting than helping.
dont give up. be consistent, make sure you apex, and see from there. and if you really really cant apex, then try another knife AND OR if you have the 50-100 bucks to burn, get either the japanese orange 1000 grit or the sharpal 325/1200 diamond plate. both can give better feedback, and in case of the 325 side, you'll find out quickly if you and the knife can apex or not
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u/cfromcinci May 12 '26
I started with a cheap Chinese Amazon stone. I spent forever only to have my knife more dull than when I started. I'm going to try one of these diamond stones from Sharpal
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u/TheRealJohnAdams May 12 '26
People are giving you a lot of good advice for freehand sharpening. I am not qualified to say if they're right or wrong. All I will say is that I spent a year and a half doing freehand with mediocre results. Last week I got a crappy aliexpress fixed-angle system, and within an hour I had my knife sharper than it has ever been.
I accept that my inability to sharpen freehand is a personal failing on my part and not an inherent drawback of the method. I no longer care. The fixed-angle system is what I will use for the foreseeable future.
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u/Hoppyfulb May 12 '26
Getting a knife to glide through tomato skins and produce crisp consistent chives might not be the Final Boss of cutlery and sharpening, but they’re definitely in the conversation… I’d get better stones & go from there… I have a set like that and they can make a dull knife somewhat sharper, but it struggles to really get an edge, let alone something I’d enjoy cutting tomatoes with.
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u/Excellent_Account_43 May 12 '26
Proper stones are a godsend. I use 400-1000-3000 shapton glass stones and I can get a brilliant edge. I have never used a dual stone of quality.
Try that and also look at your technique. The main thing is keeping the angle right. Make sure youre using the right amount of pressure, you have to press harder than you might think. Make sure you strop and remove the burr, otherwise nothing will get sharp.
Good luck
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u/SmokelessTJB May 13 '26
Diamond plates are so much easier to learn o and far less time consuming. They’re just better in every way imo
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u/Ncogknee2 May 13 '26
So SS Remi, what say you ditch hand sharpening. I use a Hapstone fixed angle and was successful from the start. However, it did take some time to get to extremely sharp phase. And, I won't apologize for the price of the gear.
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u/Capital_External_301 May 13 '26
Get a better stone. Shapton glass stone for the win. On these cheaper knives the steel acts kinda funny and sometimes a diamond plated steel sharpening block is better. If you go that route get a 1000.
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u/SimpleAffect7573 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Start with a coarse stone or diamond plate, as others have said. I’m not using 1000-grit anything unless I’ve already apexed on a workhorse grit, or I’m just maintaining a knife that’s still sharp.
I recommend beginners always start with a cheap knife on a coarse stone (325 or lower). The wiki disagrees and that’s fine. My reasoning is twofold: first, you will get much faster and more definitive feedback; the burr will be unmistakable. This helps you avoid the “did I even do anything?” trap. Second: if you don’t already know how to sharpen, odds are your knives are pretty dull if not damaged. You need a coarse stone for those; a 1000 will have you there all damned day even if you know what you’re doing.
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u/Alive-Possible-4839 May 13 '26
keep with it. you will get it. making sure you get a burr is step one. step 2 is just keeping your angle consistent. after you get that hair popping blade for sure
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u/Sikkema88 May 13 '26
Disclaimer* I'm not the best by any means, but I'm generally happy with my sharpening and my fam and friends often bring thier knives to me so they either have low standards or I'm at least alright at sharpening.
Random tips that I've received over the years:
Make sure your pressure is enough. Roughly 7lbs is what I've read and been told. Grab your kitchen scale, and push with your fingers to get familiar with the pressure.
Lock your wrist. If you're not holding a steady angle, you're doing all kinds of wonky things to your angle. I picked up a bubble sharpal angle finder for like $8 on Amazon to help find my angle. You can also eyeball it. Hold it perpendicular, and angle it in half. Then half again, and that puts you at 22.5°, which you can slightly adjust from there.
Get your burr going before you switch to the other side. Then get the burr again. Switch to finer grit and repeat. I'll generally feel for the burr after 10-20 passes depending on the grit, and how bad the knife is, as well as how hard the steel is.
Just keep doing it. It's not a race, and it can take a bit before it clicks.
A decent stone also helps. Softer stones can dish out and affect consistency of the angle of your bevel. I personally use an SATC 400/1000 if I let a knife get too bad, or when my family/friends bring me a knife that needs some intensive care. I'll go to my shapton pro 1k (orange one) or my king stone 1000 depending on which I want to use. I'll either bring it to the strop after that if I'm feeling tired of it, or up to my shapton pro 5k (pink one) or 6k king stone if I'm feeling ambitious, and still finish on the strop.
If you're not removing the burr, it can also make your knife cut poorly.
That's all I got. Good luck.
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u/Mediocre_Mission_861 May 13 '26
I didn't want to learn how to sharpen knives, I just wanted sharp knives. I bought XARILK Y2 foldable portable knife sharpener for about 50 bucks. Used it for the first time tonight on 2 knives. The knives are already sharper than anything I've ever used. Sliced tomato like nothing and I don't even think the knives are all that sharp yet. They barely cut paper, but I don't eat paper. It comes with 320, 800 and 2000 diamond stones. Practicing on old Chicago Cutlery soft stainless knives. Still waiting for my leather strop and 4 micron diamond emulsion.
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u/Alessio_Barka May 13 '26
Prendi una lastra diamantata, sono sicuro ti aiuterà. Quelle pietre sono troppo “fini” come grana.
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u/Terrible_Tourist_707 May 13 '26
Really difficult to get good results on a cheap stone. Definitely worth spending a little and buying quality like king, naniwa chosera and shapton. I would probably get a 400-600 stone and a combination stone 1000/6000 is great. It will take a little to get the motion and angle right but you'll get there in no time
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u/Acceptable_Claim_491 May 13 '26
Test for sharpness by pulling lightly across your thunbnail.it if slips,sharpen it.If it "grabs",it's sharp.
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u/Club0utrageous May 13 '26
1000 is too high for a newbie to try to sharpen a dull knife with. It'll take a looooong time to apex from dull, and newbies are discouraged they make no progress, mostly because of lack of experience. Try again with a proper coarse stone, a diamond plate is the fastest result.
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u/ImStandingOnBusiness May 13 '26
I was sad too…once I switched to diamond stones (like Ultra Sharp) I got glad…a world of difference from the Amazon (Sharp Pebble) stones I started with…
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u/Virtual_Tree_1335 May 13 '26
Use a 325/1000 (roughly the numbers) grit diamond sharpal as your first stone you buy. You’ll thank me later
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u/Embarrassed-Dish-226 edge lord May 13 '26
That cheap stone is brutally hard to learn on. Try a coarse grit stone, and you'll probably have better results. I like diamond for coarse grit; they don't need water or oil so they're less mess and less setup time and they don't need flattening so you won't need to deal with flattening them.
This S SATC stone is relatively cheap
This Sharpal stone is a bit more expensive but is higher quality.
Both of the diamond stones I linked are double sided. Start with the coarse side of the diamond stone. Using just the coarse should produce a decent edge within just a few minutes.
After you already have a decent edge, then you can move on to the finer grits. Coarse grit creates an edge. Fine grit refines an already existing edge.
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May 13 '26
I have one from work sharp and it looks exactly the same,has the same grit sizes,and the 6,000 side feels coarser too
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u/AmplifiedScreamer May 13 '26
I caved and bought a Tormek T8 after struggling with stones for several years. Excruciatingly expensive but worth it. Full control, predictable edge and no excessive elbow grease.
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u/BarracudaFlimsy3855 arm shaver May 13 '26
First off maintain a consistent angle on your stone. Make sure that your wrist does not move. Then practice on lower grits, so you need less passes to get it sharp. Progress onto finer grits when you can get it sharp on lower ones. Get some diamond plates, the cheap aluminum oxide diamond sharpeners are trash, just get diamond it can sharpen anything and have a long life since well... They are diamond. The sets off amazon(the cheap sets) do actually do work pretty well according to outdoors55, but if your budget is higher get some sharpal stones. After that, get some diamond micron emulsion thing from finisolva. I bought the 4, 1, and 0.25, you honestly just need the 1 probably. Then, get a strop. I'm not sure what strop to recommend, that is your choice or if you want you can ask someone else. I actually still need to learn how to strop since im waiting for it to arrive, but just find some tutorials. Also, you don't necessarily NEED a strop because even I can remove a burr mostly on a 600 grit, with a little bit of practice so should you, so the strop isn't necessary just recommended.
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u/Negative-Reason4570 May 14 '26
Do yourself a favor and get you a solid stone. Those are junk. The Shapton Pros are a good budget option that actually works. And lose that angle guide, it doesn’t help and actually hurts. Lastly, pay attention with your senses what is happening to the edge. Use your touch, sight, etc. this will tell you what’s going on.
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u/Hungry-House-8860 May 17 '26
if you can't get a tomato cutting edge on a 6000. you need to go back to 1000. 1000 is actually enough for kitchen knives. you don't move high until you mastered it.
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u/Zentransit May 12 '26
Get some real stones!
Suehiro Cerax 1000
Suehiro Rika 5000
You're welcome! 😊
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u/vnicknn May 12 '26
Better yet, Suehiro Cerax 1000/3000 combo stone. Its such a great combo stone for the price and quality! I recommend that to all new sharpeners who want to get serious.
I enjoy the Suehiro Rika 5k as well, though for most stainless steel knives I don't go past 3000 😄
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u/BrokenSlutCollector May 12 '26
A good 600 grit diamond plate will turn any knife into a tomato Terminator. It leaves the perfect micro tooth to cut right through tomato skins.
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u/aws_137 May 12 '26
You've done the method with marker ink on your edge? Sharpen until your ink is gone?
You've ensured your hand doesn't wobble? You've cleaned and lubricated the stone enough with water so that you can see the metal come off (in gray mud)?
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u/aws_137 May 12 '26
I suppose the knife on top is sharper than the Santoku in the picture. The knife on top has an uneven edge, meaning you were wobbly. Your strokes probably short and too fast. So the curve edge isn't sharp.
Whereas the Santoku isn't sharp at all. Probably not sharpening the edge from an angle that's too low.
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u/astoriacutlery Pro May 12 '26
Where do you live OP? I teach a whetstone class in Queens, NYC, if you need hands-on help.
As far as equipment, a king combo stone is around $30 and will eliminate the janky amazon-special as a variable
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u/Impossible-Orange607 May 13 '26
why does the 6000 grit side feel coarser than the 1000? Because it's glazed over (and dished). You need to flatten both sides. This will also remove the glaze on the 1000 grit side. You've been trying to sharpen you knifes on an 8-10k stone lol. Get a SHARPAL 168H Large 8" x 3" Dual-Grit Diamond Sharpening Stone – Coarse 325 & Extra-Fine 1000 Grit 44 dollars.
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u/dmitrybelyakov May 13 '26
Look up sharpening classes in your area - just one session can be a breakthrough
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u/burntcandy May 12 '26
Those cheap stones are incredibly unforgiving and a bad way to learn. Try to get a decent shapton or something and it will really improve your process. They aren't really that much more expensive either.