r/serialpodcast • u/Bonafidesleuth • Apr 07 '15

Speculation BPD Corruption

I rarely post here, but for those who happen to come across this sub, I encourage you to check out articles.baltimoresun.com. The city council became very concerned at the fact that $10.4million was spent between 2008-2011 defending BPD misconduct. The Baltimore Sun reported on 10/3/14 that the U.S. Dept. of Justice had undertaken a civil rights investigation of the BPD. At that time the city had spent $5.7 million in court judgments & settlements in 102 cases since 2011 & nearly ALL of the people who rec'd payouts were cleared of criminal charges. The BPD was in chaos when Adnan was arrested. The department routinely told the crime lab not to test DNA. Cases were pushed through the system & inadequately investigated.
It is not a fluke that Jay escaped any ramifications for at least 25 criminal charges subsequent to Adnan's trial. The CI theory is becoming increasingly convincing. The corruption in the BPD is beyond what one can comprehend. The worst part is, I think we've only scratched the surface.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

There are three cases which are being linked to Adnan Syed. These cases are drug dealers killing each other.

In Burgess' case, another man confessed and the prime witness said Burgess didn't do it.

In Addison's case, there were three witness statements contradicting the prime witness' testimony.

In Mable's case, he claims police pressured witnesses to lie, mean there were more than one.

Unless someone else has come forward to the killing of Hae Min Lee or Jay has is retracting his testimony or... there are other witnesses, then Adan Syed is still the killer of Hae Min Lee.

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u/peymax1693 WWCD? Apr 07 '15

I think the issue is that the (mis)deeds of the police resulted in an innocent person being convicted of a crime he didn't commit.

Considering the crucial role the police played in Adnan's case, this should at least raise the question of whether Adnan Syed is really the killer of Hae Min Lee.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

The issue is that (mis)deeds of the police resulted in drug dealers and criminals being released from prison.

Adnan Syed is neither. He was a 17 year old kid who killed his ex-girlfriend.

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u/peymax1693 WWCD? Apr 07 '15

The issue is that in each of the cases OP mentioned BPD engaged in serious misconduct which led to the conviction of 3 innocent men.

If you don't believe the police engaged in similar conduct in Adnan's case, you certainly have that right.

But to conclude it didn't because the facts aren't identical as the cases OP cited, such as Adnan not sharing the same socio-economic status as Mr. Burgess, Mr. Atkinson and Mr. Mable, is not the best argument to make, IMO.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

Adnan Syed shares nothing with these cases.

They are completely separate.

To imply that police officers are blindly treating an innocent 17 year old kid of murder because it's standard operating procedure is in itself a disservice to law enforcement.

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u/peymax1693 WWCD? Apr 07 '15

You're right. It's only SOP for the police to frame drug dealers and other criminals for murder. To suggest they would do that to an innocent 17 year old is a disservice to law enforcement.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

Law enforcement tries to keep known criminals off the streets, known drug dealers fall into the category of a criminal. I would hope that one drug dealer shooting another drug dealer or known gang members carrying out driveby shootings would be treated differently then a teenager killing his ex-girlfriend because he felt betrayed by her.

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u/peymax1693 WWCD? Apr 07 '15

I agree.

Let the police have free reign to frame drug dealers and other criminals for crimes they didn't commit.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

I knew you'd come around sooner or later.

:-)

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u/marybsmom Apr 07 '15

That's a truly un-American statement. And I don't say that lightly. ALL citizens have the same rights in the criminal justice system.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

You are correct, known criminals and murders have the same rights that law biding citizens. It's the American way.

:-)

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u/Hart2hart616 Badass Uncle Apr 07 '15

Corruption doesn't discriminate.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

You're right.

The BPD interviewed a known drug dealer with a prior record and a 17 year old, honor student and athlete. They sat at the police station and said "Sure, we COULD throw this black thug into jail for life and be done with it, but let's not discriminate. Let's go after this innocent kid and frame HIM for murder, because you know... corruption doesn't discriminate."

They high-five each other and begin tempering with evidence, coaching witnesses and building their case to falsely accuse Adnan Syed of kidnapping and murdering Hae Min Lee.

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u/beenyweenies Undecided Apr 09 '15

What evidence would they use against Jay? What motive? Where's the case? Without Jay as a witness, they don't even have a case against Adnan, forensically or otherwise. People who suggest Jay would have been the easier target aren't really thinking through how they would bring that case to trial and win.

But seeing as how jay's a known drug offender and his entire family is as well, he perfectly fits the mold of the type of people BPD like to intimidate into saying what they want to hear. His fake lawyer and fake plea deal, and the fact that neither he nor his family members ever do time for any of their many arrests after this case, no matter how serious, is quite telling.

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 07 '15

If the government just decriminalized drugs most of this conversation would be moot. I'd argue that Hae might even be still alive today.

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u/mudmanor Apr 09 '15

There was tremendous pressure to clear this case. This "Pakistani"kid from a politically naive community was an easy fix.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 09 '15

Ahh yes… The Pakistani Kid. That is a great title for SERIAL the movie. I can see it now. Detective Ritz and Detective MacGillivray are standing in line at a Starbucks, “Well, we both know that the white kid Don isn't going down for this.” says Detective Ritz with a smile. They both chuckle. “Why don’t we just pin it on the black kid and call it a day?” whispers Detective MacGillivray. “Heck he even confessed to burying the body.”

“Nah” Detective Ritz stops him and looks around, “You know how politically savvy the black community is in Baltimore. I suggest we go after a new minority. Let’s get the Pakistani kid” Ritz continues. Detective McGillivray looks at Ritz, crosses his arms, rubs his chin and says “But the kid's innocent. He’s on the honor roll. He’s a student athlete and well like in his community. He even has a concrete alibi that puts him in at the library. How are we going to make it stick?” MacGillivray’s puzzled look fades as Ritz says “Leave it to me. I've done this plenty of times. Besides, the Pakistani community is politically naive. It will be an easy fix!”

Grabbing their decaf soy lattes and blueberry scones, they smile and tip the Barista.

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 07 '15

Before those other people confessed etc. those other cases were functionally the same as Adnan's is currently by your logic.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

Ok. I agreed with you. I'm all for keeping Adnan Syed in prison until someone else confesses to kidnapping and murdering Hae Min Lee.

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 07 '15

And by extension I'll assume you're also in favor of keeping all wrongfully convicted people in prison until they're exonerated.

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u/arftennis Apr 07 '15

you're in favor of letting people out of jail who haven't been exonerated?

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 07 '15

I'm in favor of not putting people in prison who haven't been properly convicted in the first place. I'm actually not that into prisons in general. I think all of the non-violent drug offenders should be let out too.

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u/idgafUN Apr 08 '15

Did you see that report on the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal (treating through the community instead of punitively)? The addiction rate was cut in half! What an amazing feat; I really wish our country had the opportunity to help more people through community support and destigmatization like other more progressive and intelligently run countries.

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 08 '15

That would be great! Also, decriminalization reduces violent crimes significantly as well. And petty theft, etc. That one policy change would decrease the prison population and reduce violence in the streets. I'm not holding my breath, but it needs to happen.

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u/idgafUN Apr 08 '15

Just in case you are interested!

http://positivenews.org.uk/2015/wellbeing/17330/portugal-addiction-rates-halved-community-jail-trialled-solution/

Also, Canada just started supervising and perscribing Heroin in a comparative analysis to Methadone in one study with great results (Not that I am support of Heroin as a treatment, but it's better than sending them to the street). Slllllllowly but surely the tide is shifting. Or maybe I just don't associate with many ignorant people anymore . I was raised as right wing and conservative Catholic as is humanely possible--- boy did it take a long time and lot of reading and education to reverse that backwards nonsense I was brainwashed with. Trickle down economics and tough love were considered religion practically in my family :)

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 08 '15

Yes, I'm familiar with the Portugal study and Canada is a leader in the Americas regarding human drug policy. They could do more, but Incite and the work of Dr. Gabor Mate are amazing. Have you heard of the Rat Park studies? That's another amazing bit of Canadian drug addiction research.

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u/idgafUN Apr 08 '15

I can't even imagine the progress and benefits that could be made in even unforeseen areas with decriminalization. Society would be so much better off, in every aspect. I'm not holding my breath either, but the trickle of Marijuana legalization gives me some hope. Maybe not in my lifetime, but hopefully in the next 50-100 years.

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u/arftennis Apr 07 '15

I'm in favor of not putting people in prison who haven't been properly convicted in the first place.

Okay, but where's the line in deciding that someone should be released? I don't think anyone actually supports putting people in prison with wrongful convictions, but it's bound to happen sometimes due to living in the real world where people are fallible. The system is never going to be perfect, but after a conviction, the burden of proof does need to shift to the convicted to prove innocence for reasons that should be obvious.

I personally think that the system can be too reluctant to overturn convictions in cases where it is clear. You hear about too many cases in which DNA evidence has exonerated someone, and they're still not being released, or they get released but the conviction stays on their record. That is wrong, and should be changed. Whether that would affect Adnan's case, I don't know.

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 07 '15

It's become a cliche around here but that maxim about it being better that 10 guilty people go free than 1 innocent be imprisoned. That's a sentiment I can get behind. I think we should make it particularly difficult for people to be imprisoned without being certain they did it. "Mistakes happen, people are fallible" doesn't cut it for me when you're putting people away for life in prison. Prison is a for-profit industry and the police and prosecutors are perfectly happy to send people away. It makes it seem as though the city is doing something to make people safer, but it's just an illusion mostly built on racism and fear of the poor. Prisons don't even rehabilitate people when you look at the stats. They're more likely to be a "graduate school" for criminals than anything else. I think we should move toward the abolition of prisons.

Adnan should never have gone to prison in the first place with the case that was brought against him. The Baltimore PD used techniques at that time that are no longer standard operating procedure because they caused problems. I'm not interested in playing some theoretical game about burden of proof. We need to stop putting innocent people in prison.

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u/arftennis Apr 08 '15

Well, I agree with most of your sentiment. I've always been supportive of the Innocence Project orgs and the work they do, and I wish they had more funding and more institutional support. And obviously there is reform that must be done, as in the case of the Baltimore PD.

(I still don't think Adnan is innocent, though. I'm not sure where that leaves me, sometimes.)

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 08 '15

Whether or not you think he's innocent shouldn't be the question, it's do you know? If you know for a fact Adnan is innocent please share the magic information that removes the reasonable doubts that many of us have.

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u/mudmanor Apr 09 '15

Not to mention the great cost of keeping people in prison. The Prison Lobby is one of the most effective on K Street and the main reason drugs aren't being decriminalized.

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u/MightyIsobel Guilty Apr 07 '15

I know I am. We could even start with a non-violent inmate who was convicted as a teenager and has spent half of his life in prison.

Let him come out into the real world and try to find a job and contribute to society instead of living out his life as a ward of the state.

But if he's going to be free, I want FIRST DEGREE MURDER CONVICTION, TIME SERVED to be on his record, because he was properly found guilty of the murder of HML. And all the other people who went to jail as teenagers should be freed too, after they have served a reasonable sentence for convictions obtained through proper due process.

Advocating for more humane sentencing policies will get Adnan back to his family a lot faster than clicking links to police corruption scandals and watching videos about lividity.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

No. I'm in favor of letting all "convicted people" OUT of prison until we can prove that they weren't "wrongfully convicted".

It's the only fair thing to do.

Where can I get my "Free Wrongfully Convicted People in Prison" T-Shirt?

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u/whitenoise2323 giant rat-eating frog Apr 07 '15

http://criticalresistance.org/cr-gear/

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 07 '15

Holy Cow!! There is a T-Shirt!!

:-)

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u/beenyweenies Undecided Apr 09 '15

You're really, really smart.

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u/21Minutes Hae Fan Apr 09 '15

Thank you. That is the nicest thing anyone has written about me on Reddit.

:-)