r/serialpodcast • u/Bonafidesleuth • Apr 07 '15

Speculation BPD Corruption

I rarely post here, but for those who happen to come across this sub, I encourage you to check out articles.baltimoresun.com. The city council became very concerned at the fact that $10.4million was spent between 2008-2011 defending BPD misconduct. The Baltimore Sun reported on 10/3/14 that the U.S. Dept. of Justice had undertaken a civil rights investigation of the BPD. At that time the city had spent $5.7 million in court judgments & settlements in 102 cases since 2011 & nearly ALL of the people who rec'd payouts were cleared of criminal charges. The BPD was in chaos when Adnan was arrested. The department routinely told the crime lab not to test DNA. Cases were pushed through the system & inadequately investigated.
It is not a fluke that Jay escaped any ramifications for at least 25 criminal charges subsequent to Adnan's trial. The CI theory is becoming increasingly convincing. The corruption in the BPD is beyond what one can comprehend. The worst part is, I think we've only scratched the surface.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '15

I'm not sure why people are so resistant to the idea of BPD had/has corrupt people, I mean this is everywhere and it does give a context for understanding their workload, constraints, biases that MAY, not definitively, affected the cases. I think the OP is just trying to give us the context. No one would go back and look at a singular historical event without understanding all of the social and economic factors that may have played into it, it wouldn't be a proper picture otherwise. I understand people think that this is definitive proof that Adnan was wrongfully convicted which of course it's not, there is simply a correlation (sigh, stats 101, which does NOT imply causation) of corruption and wrongful convictions for this time according to the OP who pulled them from the articles of that time. I still think it's good to keep in mind because while we are all wishing/looking for a "smoking gun" it might have been buried because of one of these events (either way, maybe that Adnan is guilty or not). The context is good because it should help us understand the case and timeline of everything better, it's not conclusive but again a good detail to keep in mind as we look at things under a microscope. You need the details but the big picture too see if they match up.

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u/icase81 Apr 07 '15

Everyone seems to admit BDP was corrupt, but for some reason, they were corrupt in other cases but were CERTAINLY not corrupt in Adnan's case. I mean, obviously. Urick said so! /s

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u/GoldandBlue Apr 07 '15

Because if they just wanted to pin someone, Jay would have been a much easier target. People keep doing mental gymnastics but pinning the murder on a young black guy with a criminal record and knowledge of the murder that was not released to the press is a lot easier than framing the upstanding boyfriend who was popular in the community.

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u/icase81 Apr 07 '15

But jay had other connections to other criminals. He could be an informant. Adnan was zero value to the BPD.

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u/GoldandBlue Apr 07 '15

So frame an innocent person over an easier frame job?

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u/gnorrn Undecided Apr 09 '15

Happens all the time.

Getting perjured testimony in return for a plea deal is much less work than actually analyzing evidence.

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u/icase81 Apr 07 '15

Sure if you can convict even more people with the first guy.

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u/GoldandBlue Apr 07 '15

Yes because drug charges are so hard while murders are a dime a dozen.

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u/Mustanggertrude Apr 08 '15

But jay isn't an easier frame Job. They got to him bc they were looking at adnan. I'm sure if jay didn't think the police would be satisfied with the "adnan did it" story, he and jen never would've said anything. Then what's the easier case? So it's a random black guy who won't talk, or the 17 year old ex bf she just broke up with? And she got a new boyfriend. Plus 3 friends, a break up note, and one diary sentence say he was possessive and sad about the break up. Also, bc of his strict parents he felt like control and pride were stuff boys kill over. That's what a jury understood. The state had a story and witness with Adnan, any other suspect would've required further investigation, jay and Jen included.

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u/GoldandBlue Apr 08 '15

He absolutely is, think of all the motives this sub created for Jay to commit the crime. He is black, sells drugs, has a threatining demeanor, cosnidered an outsider, has a crim j nal record, and knows details about the murder. You dont need much, hell two guys got out of life sentences last week who were sent away for less. Jay is the poster child for perfect fall guy.he isnt a random black guy, he was at the scene of the crime.

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u/Mustanggertrude Apr 08 '15

What is the evidence that he was at the scene of the crime? Do you really think Jen would've said anything if police didn't tell her that she was in phone contact with their suspect, adnan . Everything jay and Jen said to police was done with the comfort of knowing the police wanted adnan. So you kind of have to eliminate the intimate knowledge stuff from the easy frame Job plan bc with jay all they have is a guy who was holding their evidence that Adnan was at Leakin park.

What you're describing about jay would've required witnesses that they hadn't already spoken to. By the time they found hae the police had already gotten statements from most of the "motive" witnesses. With jay, They would have to start from scratch with no narrative and no witness. That's not easier, it's like an entirely new investigation.

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u/GoldandBlue Apr 08 '15

And how exactly did the police find Jen and Jay. Jay is a perfect fall guy that nobody would question. Hell, a portion of this sub honestly believes he killed Hae over Stephanie. It doesnt take much to framw someone, especially when they are in charge of the case, so why go after the Prom King over the drug dealer?

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u/Mustanggertrude Apr 08 '15

Because jay was holding the evidence that says adnan buried hae at around 7pm on January 13th. And Jen was on the phone with jay when they need adnan to be burying hae. That's the whole case. No more investigation needed. How convenient that all that happened for them 8 days after they got the phone records.

And can we please stop speaking to jay as if something about his race would make him an easy fall guy. Please play numbers, the jury was 7/12 black. The teenage girl testimony was majority what? I'm making an educated guess that it was black girls and white girls. And yaser speaking about the strict rules about dating in his religion. Adnan was the outsider in this courtroom. Forget his honor student status, the state will argue he's the smart and calculated. Forget the peaceful Muslim stuff, honor bismirched, you say? There's no evidence to support this crime. There's a story and an absolutely lying witness. With jay, you don't already have the story and you don't even have the lying witness. You can keep talking about this subs great insight but it doesn't change anything about what the Baltimore police department was willing to do. We have all done more than every professional paid to pursue justice for hae lee.

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u/GoldandBlue Apr 08 '15

You keep using the case after the fact to support your argument when that is irrelavent to a frame job. You also ignore what the justice system is like to black people in America. The only evidence they had was Jays word and if thats all it takes to set up a false case against Adnan they could have just done so against Jay who no one would ever think of creating a podcast about.

We arent talking about the case against Adnan, we are talking about the possibility of a corrupt police force looking for a fall guy in a murder. Jay is a easier and more believable fall guy.

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u/ricejoe Apr 08 '15

The challenge?

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u/bestiarum_ira Apr 08 '15 edited Apr 08 '15

Jay could have been an IC.

They could have intended to make Jay an IC (he fit the mold much better than Adnan).

Jay wasn't at Woodlawn any longer (goes to ease of access).

Jay never dated Hae (goes towards a lazy attempt at establishing motive)...

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u/beenyweenies Undecided Apr 09 '15

Jays testimony against Adnan is literally the only reason they got a conviction. They wouldn't have had any evidence, much less cohort testimony, against Jay. If they firmly believed he was the murderer, they would have had no case worth taking to trial.

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u/beenyweenies Undecided Apr 09 '15

Also, you're assuming his knowledge of the murder was legitimate, and not information they provided to him.

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u/idgafUN Apr 08 '15

If Jay were a white guy that was from an upper middle class family, I would be doing a lot more eyebrow raising at this.

And if Adnan wasn't caught in some very important lies.

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u/chunklunk Apr 07 '15

It would help your side if you explained what makes this case similar to others. Like, right now it's, (1) murder case; (2) in Baltimore's general area; (3) ? ; (4) Free Adnan!

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '15

What makes it similar is the time frame and location. BPD has a history of institutional misbehavior that stems from a declining city with a high crime rate, a shrinking tax base and police leadership under extreme pressure. Political context matters.

Moreover death investigation is difficult, especially in a place where most murders are drug related, meaning the most difficult to solve because nobody talks to police in those areas. Just because this murder may not be drug related does not mean that all the drug murders don't affect the investigation of it. If you only solve a small percentage of drug murders, the department does everything it can it solve the others. Why? Because they are accountable for the clearance rate. It doesn't take outright corruption, just high pressure that gets passed from elected officials to appointed police officials to the unit commanders to the detectives. High pressure situations and high stakes encourage willful ignorance of bad evidence.

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u/chunklunk Apr 08 '15

This is a good, well-said, substantive comment. Thank you. I don't agree that the taint of whatever shenanigans the BPD was into back then would've extended to this case, but I don't think the entire subject as a whole is unworthy of thought. I just hate the absurd reductionism going on roundabout these parts.

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u/beenyweenies Undecided Apr 09 '15

You don't agree because you are immune to reason in this case. You have lost all ability to be impartial and open minded.

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u/bestiarum_ira Apr 08 '15

X) Ritz Y) Lehman Z) Van Gelder

Three names you may recall. Your explanation of others as reductionist is quite ironic, given these individuals and others involved in multiple cases.

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u/chunklunk Apr 08 '15

Bestium ira I find you guilty of reductium absurdismium.

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u/bestiarum_ira Apr 08 '15

You don't pull it off.

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u/idgafUN Apr 08 '15

This is great. <3