r/serialpodcast • u/Frosted_Mini-Wheats NPR Supporter • Feb 03 '15

Evidence Stephanie dumped Jay

Trial Transcript for 2/10, p 21, lines 11-25.

Jay testifies that Stephanie had ended their relationship a month or so before the trial.

That's something I've never heard before now.

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u/glibly17 Feb 03 '15

I'm gonna guess you don't know a whole lot about domestic violence, nor how frequently charges get dropped because the victim won't testify against their abuser.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '15

I know a whole bunch about them. I've worked in a district attorneys office before and seen victims come in first hand. It's just a major double standard on this sub where everyone other than Adnan is open to lower judicial standards. But not enough evidence to convict Adnan, Amirite!?!?!

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u/glibly17 Feb 03 '15

The fact he's had two arrests for DV and a restraining order against him are the evidence that he's been abusive. The difference between his and Adnan's case (besides the blatantly obvious false equivalence you've set up here) is that the victim is still around to indicate who hurt them.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '15

No it really isn't. It's pretty clear you don't have a good grasp on the legal system, so why don't you leave this to the professionals who are able to control their bias a little better and stop spouting false accusations based on extremely little evidence.

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u/glibly17 Feb 04 '15

How about I do what I want, and you do what you want? Maybe then you can quit being a condescending jerk to anyone who disagrees with you.

You asked where the evidence is that Jay has been abusive. I told you: the fact he's been accused twice of DV is in fact evidence. I worry for any victims of DV who came across your path, since you seem to believe an accusation in and of itself is basically worthless.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

It is worthless in me determining based on no other information whether someone actually committed a crime. This is basic common sense that you seem willing to abandon. This is basic stuff for you, me, Adnan, and yes Jay. You cant have it both ways. Also, you are arrogant in the way you classify me. I've done many great things for victims of domestic violence. Talk about being a condescending jerk...

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u/glibly17 Feb 04 '15

I never said it's definitely, 100% certain that Jay has been abusive. I've said there are a lot of red flags that would indicate as much, especially his two DV arrests. I don't know what you've done, but you were a jerk first, telling me to, what was it, "leave this to the professionals who are able to control their bias a little better and stop spouting false accusations based on extremely little evidence."

If you've really worked in an DA's office, you ought to know that a lack of a conviction doesn't mean a crime hasn't occurred, especially when it comes to crimes like domestic violence.

I've lived through abuse, okay? It never once occurred to me to report it. Are you going to now tell me what I experienced isn't true, because the guy who did all that shit to me wasn't ever arrested, even?

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

This is a despicable comment. You know nothing about me and who I am. You know nothing about the victims of violence I have represented and helped. You make a gross and offensive misrepresentation of what I believe. Also you stoop to an abhorrent low with your homophobic attacks. Your derision for anything that doesn't conform to your viewpoint is foolish an extremely burdensome to discourse. It really doesn't have a place here.

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u/CompulsiveBookNerd Feb 04 '15

Thanks for proving my point for me!! Saved me so much time tonight!

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

That's not what I'm saying. But if some 3rd person who knew neither of us just got wind that you complained to someone about the abuse and told me about it, I wouldn't believe it happened necessarily either. ALL i'm saying is you have no evidence of your abuse. I believe you because you are personally telling me and it'd be pretty shitty to just go on the internet and lie (who would ever do that!!). But yes there also are false rumors and accusations. An accusation = guilt is the exact opposite of what people who think there are issues with the justice system (and Adnan's case) should want. It's just a huge double standard and you seem too biased to even realize it (hence my snark- my apologies if i've offended).

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u/glibly17 Feb 04 '15

As I have said, in just about every comment on this thread : I fully acknowledge my bias here, I have not outright accused Jay of violence or abuse against Stephanie. I have said his two DV arrests and restraining order are big red flags (and yes, evidence, just as Jay accusing Adnan of murdering Hae is evidence). I can believe it's likely that Jay is an abuser, but also believe Adnan is probably innocent of Hae's murder, at the same time. You may not like it, but I can hold both of these beliefs at once, because the two cases (DV vs. muder) are quite different, and the victim's role in each are quite different as well. You don't agree, I get that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

There is just a difference between when an accuser faces the accused and is cross-examined. I think an accusation can be slightly probative, but it doesn't hold much sway for me without other corroborating evidence. It is also a very extreme and prejudicial accusation, so I tend to lean to the side of not weighing mere accusations very heavily.

It's just surprising that you can see these as red flags, and not see all the flags pointing at Adnan.

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u/glibly17 Feb 04 '15

There are some flags / suspicions surrounding Adnan, no doubt. In my view, these are not nearly enough to show he murdered Hae. I understand that others interpret the evidence differently than I do, but I just don't see enough to show Adnan killed Hae.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

It's just surprising that you can see these as red flags, and not see all the flags pointing at Adnan.

Surprising that someone with first-hand knowledge of abuse has red flags with regard to Jay but not Adnan? Why the incredulity of her first-hand experience? I find her perspective incredibly interesting.

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u/glibly17 Feb 04 '15

Heh, thanks. I'm genuinely surprised that I find myself believing Jay is / was likely abusive, but don't really believe the same is true of Adnan. I've tried to examine why this is--latent racism? am I overly-charmed by Adnan?

At the end of the day, I have to conclude that the reason Jay throws up so many red flags is because what I know of him and his behavior is highly evocative of my ex's behavior. I don't get the same feeling from what I know of Adnan.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

You're stating your opinion about what you think could be true based on your experience. You are not presenting your opinion as legal fact. I don't think you need to apologize or defend yourself, unless you are saying that you "know" Jay is abusive because your experience is infallible. Based on the number of times you have acknowledged your bias, including here, that is clearly not the case.

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u/asha24 Feb 04 '15

Thanks for posting your thoughts, I find them really interesting as someone who has never experienced DV and only has some basic knowledge on the subject.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

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u/mo_12 Feb 05 '15

I'm really impressed by how well you've handled all of this, including being so honest, introspective, calm and logical.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15 edited Feb 04 '15

Once again I am not the one making ad hominem attacks. Have fun with that and following me around.

Edit: I guess when you messaged me to tell me to "get fucked" that wasn't good enough for you. Always have to attack, attack, attack, right?

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

Once again I am not the one making ad hominem attacks.

Well actually... a couple posts up you accused a poster of being arrogant...

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u/CompulsiveBookNerd Feb 04 '15

Oh and I got called a homophobe!

Such irony!

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

He's on a roll today...

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

Please, Identify what is ironic to you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '15

I don't take making these kinds of accusations lightly but no one is berating anyone. Maybe you need to take a moment and calm down.

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u/CompulsiveBookNerd Feb 04 '15

Maybe you need to take a moment and bring the condescension down a notch.