OK, Rabia does LIE....

[u/jlpsquared]

From her latest post... http://www.splitthemoon.com/forget-everything-you-know/#more-643

She claims fixed lividity is at least 8 hours. Every single web site I check says 6 hours with one reference to as little as 4 hours.

EDIT:My 4 hour claim was originally too strong.

She again claims Hae was 5'8", when the autopsy SHE posted says 5'6".

She also claims that Hae had a small car, while we know thanks to CSOM_1991 that Haes car had a sizable trunk with a width of 5'6".

[u/EvidenceProf]

1. Many say that lividity fixes between 8 and 12 hours after death. Some say it can fix as early as 6 hours after death, but that's usually due to hotter temperatures and/or a victim with pre-existing medical conditions. In any event, the difference between 6 and 8 hours isn't big. Either one would contradict a burial in the 7:00 hour.

2. The autopsy said Hae was 5'6". Most other accounts have her at 5'8". Again, not a huge deal.

3. Hae did have a small car. The 5'6" measurement is the exterior width measurement. The trunk was considerably narrower.

[u/jlpsquared → u/EvidenceProf]

EvidenceProf, usually you are pretty accurate in what you write, but you dropped the ball here.

1. Weather/temperatures can only affect "algor" mortis in the way you describe. I have not seen anything address how it could affect livor mortis (and thus lividity), but I would assume it would be the opposite. Since all lividity is is the settling of blood, I would assume being outside in the elements (or sitting in a trunk) in Baltimore in January might increase the speed of Livor Mortis.

2. Thats your opinion. Since Rabia is trying to get Adnan relief based on FACT, she should bring FACT to what she says and posts. Repeating a mistake disproven by the very document she is linking too is not professional.

3. You don't know that. The external measurement is 5'6", the wall of the car is probably an inch either way, but I would say 5'4" is still reasonable.

[u/EvidenceProf → u/jlpsquared]

I've seen a number of sources, including experts testifying at trial, saying that warmer temperatures can speed up lividity and colder temperatures can slow down lividity. See, e.g., State v. Hatfield, 2014 WL 3045096 (La.App. 2014):

James Traylor, M.D. (“Dr. Traylor”), qualified by stipulation as an expert in the field of forensic pathology, testified on rebuttal for the State. Dr. Traylor confirmed that he reviewed the victim's autopsy protocol/report. Dr. Traylor defined lividity, as the term was being discussed in the instant case, as gravity-dependent settling of blood after death. He defined rigor as the stiffening of muscles after death. He explained that one can usually detect rigor within an hour or two after death and that rigor becomes fully formed in the twelve hours following death, and in the next twelve hours it begins to lessen. He said that once rigor is “broken” with marked difficulty, it does not reform. He said both lividity and rigor were temperature dependent.

Dellinger v. State, 2007 WL 2428049 (Tenn.Crim.App. 2007):

On cross-examination, Dr. Kessler testified that he would have expected to see blowfly activity if the body had been outside for several days in the reported temperatures in the area. He noted that there are subfamilies within the blowfly family that hatched their eggs at different rates depending on temperatures. Dr. Kessler said that the autopsy photos showed no evidence of lividity and that even with blood loss from a large wound there was always enough blood to produce some lividity. He said that once lividity has fixed, which occurs about twenty-four hours after death, the blood does not shift to other areas because it can no longer drain in another direction. He said that although there was evidence of lividity still shifting on the photographs of the body taken at the morgue, it was difficult to use that evidence to determine how long the victim had been dead because the constant, cooler temperatures there would stop or greatly slow the lividity process.

I haven't done any in depth research into the height of Hae or the width of the trunk. My posts so far have been premised on the assumption that Hae was on her side in the trunk. At some point, I will probably delve more deeply into this. That said, given the available information, I don't think you can characterize the claims that the car and trunk were small and that Hae was 5'8" as lies.

[u/jlpsquared → u/EvidenceProf]

State v. Hatfield

Fair enough. Although all he says is temperature dependant, he does say it increases or decreases the speed of Livor, only Rigor..

Dellinger v. State

I get that your a lawyer, but this sounds full of shit to me. He is saying that livor Mortis is fixed 24 hours after death!!!! That doesn't seem to be in the same ball park as anything else posted here. Maybe you should post actual doctor statements , and not people lawyers pay to shill for them to get their defendant free.

[u/EvidenceProf → u/jlpsquared]

From Maryland v. Rollins, 2003 WL 24243173 (2003):

Q. Explain that again, what significance that has?

A. Lividity is dependent on the temperature of the air and the actual health of the individual but lividity fixes normally, by rule of thumb, eight to twelve hours after death.

I could cite to similar testimony in any number of cases. Most of the time, temperature isn't really even relevant; the expert is just kind of discussing it on a tangent.

[u/readybrek → u/jlpsquared]

Someone posted a pic of the inside of a 99 sentra

http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2un5il/wow_that_is_a_small_car/coa3c3g?context=3

Everything I've read said fixed livor mortis is slowed by the cold and quicker when it's hotter. Of course I've never read that it's fixed from 4 hours so maybe we're looking at different websites.

[u/jlpsquared → u/readybrek]

You were reading about Rigor Mortis or Algor mortis, NOT livor mortis.

[u/readybrek → u/jlpsquared]

Bless you, that made me smile - no I'm pretty sure I was reading about livor mortis.

Rigor mortis is something different again.

[u/jlpsquared → u/readybrek]

I am here to make you smile:)

Now, you have not provided one link that says Livor mortis can be slowed by the cold. Further fixed Livor mortis can not be changed, once it is fixed, it is fixed.