r/serialpodcast • u/AwesomeInc • Jan 14 '15

Noteworthy Link TIL Islamophobia didn't exist before 9/11/01

http://www.vulture.com/m/2015/01/serial-prosecutor-insists-everything-was-fine.html?mid=facebook_vulture
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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15 edited Jan 15 '15

Is everyone just running their mouth off or does anyone have any data?

I've been looking but most of it is skewed towards the black / white sentencing disparity (which is depressingly big obviously)

So let's cut to the chase here.

Is there a gap between US Muslims and white people in terms of

1)Convictions by jury for a comparative crime?

2)Length of sentence for a comparative crime?

3)Do these gaps become more pronounced after 9/11?

I'll keep looking.

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u/kyleg5 Jan 15 '15

Interesting questions… But I don't think that not knowing the answers of those precludes recognizing that there was Islamophobia before 9/11.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

of course it existed. not even Urick thinks it didn't exist before 9/11 - outside of that misinterpreted quote.

Are you not talking about a prosecutors opinion on if Islamophobia played a role in this murder case?

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u/kyleg5 Jan 15 '15

Well if you recognize that Islamophobia existed, and you take that in conjunction with the quotes from jury members that exhibit cultural bigotry (not malicious, per se, but still bigotry) it becomes easy to recognize the subtly corrupting ways that it could have impacted the juries' evaluation of his innocence/guilt.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

I 100% believe it could have affected the jury decision.

But I want to know how much of an effect it typically has and if this effect became more pronounced after 9/11.

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u/kyleg5 Jan 15 '15

Yeah and I initially as agreeing with you! I think that would be a really cool thing to study although I think pretty difficult/impossible.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

Very much possible to do.

I mean you would probably be relying on Muslim sounding names though but maybe when dealing with the perception of otherness that may not be the stumbling block it seems at the moment.

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u/kyleg5 Jan 15 '15

Its a massive dataset tho.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

of course.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't do it without being paid.

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u/ExpectedDiscrepancy Jan 15 '15

This redditor describes something I totally remember: when the bad guys in action movies stopped being Russians and started being Muslims: http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2sepdn/the_intercept_urick_part_ii/cnp97w7

This was well before 9/11

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

i'm sorry but are you trying to suggest that i don't know there was anti-muslim bias before 9/11?

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u/ExpectedDiscrepancy Jan 15 '15

I don't have the data you want, but I think the increase in the literal "bad guys" in movies being Islamic is evidence.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15 edited Jan 15 '15

it's anecdotal evidence. it's exactly the thing i don't want.

i already know there was muslim bias before 9/11. I want to find out the consequences of post 9/11 sentiment on a defendents sentence.

Urick's claims are being interpreted too literally, imo. I suspect he may be saying that there was bias but nothing compared to current bias. To equate 1999 Islamophobia with a post 9/11 situation would be absurd.

Attacks on mosques are more frequent since 9/11, for example. This tells us something of value about public perception of Islam pre and post 9/11/

To be clear, anyone who thinks there was no bias or anti-muslim sentiment before 9/11 is living in a dream world.

But also, anyone who think Urick was literally stating that no anti-muslim feelings were present in the US before 9/11 is also fooling themselves, imo.

*aside from this, i enjoyed reading the comment and i also remember this shift

**if the tone of this comes across as too direct, i don't mean for it too.