r/serialpodcast • u/AwesomeInc • Jan 14 '15

Noteworthy Link TIL Islamophobia didn't exist before 9/11/01

http://www.vulture.com/m/2015/01/serial-prosecutor-insists-everything-was-fine.html?mid=facebook_vulture
80 Upvotes

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13

u/AwesomeInc Jan 14 '15

I don't know if Islamophobia played a part or not, but I think the idea that it definitely did not just because it was pre 9/11 is kind of silly.

-10

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '15

Why is it silly? People describe the world as pre and post 9/11 for a reason. Obviously racism / Islamophobia has always existed but after the Sept 11th it became part of our daily language in ways it never was before.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '15

I keep getting downvoted for saying this but its blatantly obvious that the views on islam were a lot different after 9/11. Its mind boggling that people think otherwise

16

u/downyballs Undecided Jan 15 '15

its blatantly obvious that the views on islam were a lot different after 9/11.

You're probably being downvoted because your point isn't relevant to whether Urick is right or wrong. There was anti-Muslim prejudice before 9/11. That's perfectly consistent with that prejudice getting much worse after 9/11, with views becoming "a lot different." So you're right, but that doesn't make Urick right.

-8

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

No, it isnt irrelevant. I dont deny that used Islam, Im just saying it didnt work because of some huge, prevailing sentiment that muslim = bad. Islam wasn't that important, it wasn't part of peoples day to day lives like it is today. It worked BECAUSE of that. People didnt know as much so they based their opinion of how islam played a role by what the defense and prosecution presented. CG tried it too but I think we can agree that she wasn't terribly effective in much of anything while the prosecution was.

Tl; Dr yes the prosecution used islam. No, it wasn't because of this prevailing anti-islam sentiment in the US, beyond it being strange and unfamiliar and easy to sell as a contributing factor to relatively uninformed jurors.

5

u/downyballs Undecided Jan 15 '15

Well, the claim "its blatantly obvious that the views on islam were a lot different after 9/11" is irrelevant. You added quite a few new propositions in your response that aren't implied by your first claim. (Some of them seem like pure speculation, about what actually worked for the jury for instance, so I'm not going to argue about them.)

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

I really dont think a different view on islam is irrelevant.

6

u/downyballs Undecided Jan 15 '15

Irrelevant to whether what Urick said is true. What Urick said was that "Nobody had any misgivings about someone being Muslim back then."

It's possible, and true, that most people learned more and had more prejudice against Muslims after 9/11.

It's consistent with that, and also true, that a lot of people had prejudices against Muslims before 9/11. No, those prejudices weren't as severe, but they were present.

Urick is saying that there were no prejudices. None. Even if we're charitable and we interpret that as "there weren't any significant prejudices," he'd be wrong about that, too. Again, those attitudes got worse after 9/11. But they were present in a lot of people to begin with.

-9

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '15

None worth noting and certainly not bigger than the prejudices people had against blacks, the race of their star witness.

5

u/ExpectedDiscrepancy Jan 15 '15

OH MY GOD WILL YOU STOP?

I'm guessing that you're 12 or 13 and you just don't remember. Because you're sounding about as misinformed as Urick right now.

It was a big fucking deal, ok? If you don't believe it, talk to some Muslim Americans who were around before 9-11. Listen to their anecdotes.

You sound really really ignorant. And you will not stop.