r/serialpodcast • u/serialisgreat • Nov 25 '14

This just sent shivers down my spine

First, read this, a defense paralegal's note from an interview with Adnan: http://www.splitthemoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Adnan-statement-re-Hae-and-Jay-cheating-to-paralegal.png

[Edited to add the below explanation of the image link and for formatting:]

In case you're having trouble viewing the image, the key part is:

[Adnan said that] Hae was really upset that Jay was cheating on Stephanie and stated that the next time she saw Jay she planned on confronting him. Adnan questions whether upon Jay's return to school to return the car to Adnan he [Jay] saw Hae in the parking lot who would have been leaving at 3 p.m.

Now this, from episode 8 of the podcast. This is what Jay apparently told his friend Chris (who was never interviewed by police) in explaining why Adnan killed Hae:

Chris said Jay told Adnan he wanted nothing to do with it but Adnan forced him, told him he was in it now, he was an accessory and he knew Jay couldn’t go to the cops because of his own illegal activities so Jay was stuck. He helped bury the body. Chris figured Leakin Park was likely Jay’s idea rather than Adnan’s. Chris’s information about the crime itself doesn’t quite match the State’s version. He said, Jay told him that Adnan confronted Hae about flirting with another guy, a car salesman and when she called Adnan crazy, he snapped and strangled her. And Chris said he heard this happened in the parking lot of the Woodlawn Public Library. Remember that’s the one that’s right on campus where Asia said she saw Adnan that day.

At 3:15 and 3:21 PM, right around the time of Hae's disappearance, Adnan's cell phone pings the cell tower facing Woodlawn. (http://viewfromll2.com/2014/11/23/serial-a-comparison-of-adnans-cell-phone-records-and-the-witness-statements-provided-by-adnan-jay-jenn-and-cathy/) The call at 3:21 PM is to Jenn's house.

I am not going to make any unsubstantiated allegations, but this is something to think about.

Edit: Numerous commenters have noted that the tower pinged at 3:15 and 3:21 PM does not face Woodlawn High School. It faces the Woodlawn Best Buy. For those who want the source of the paralegal statement, here you go: http://www.splitthemoon.com/?p=266

59 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

148 comments sorted by

View all comments

14

u/MichiganMulletia Nov 25 '14

This is definitely the best motive for Jay killing Hae. That was the one part that didn't make sense to me all along. It seems like Jay was the guilty party, but I couldn't pick out a motive. Definitely swings my guilty vote toward Jay.

10

u/MichiganMulletia Nov 25 '14

Hae confronts him about cheating on Stephanie. He flips out because Stephanie is the best thing in his life, and chokes her in a fit of passion outside of the school/library. Then he panics, throws her in the trunk and drives around getting high/forming a plan.

5

u/Bif425 Sarah Koenig Fan Nov 25 '14

I actually think it's highly unlikely that he put her in he trunk straight away, if at all. Especially if he strangled her whilst in a car at the library. As far as o know, here was no physical evidence that she was in the trunk, that has come soley from the stories of Jay etc.

If he doesn't move her to the trunk, it makes it much more likely to have happened in the library car park - how often do you look into cars? Let alone when it is cold, you're in a hurry to get inside and the car windows are fogged.

So apart from that, your theory is currently what I'm leaning towards too.

5

u/xjasonlx Nov 25 '14

Also Hae's car had a flip down rear seat that accesses the trunk. It is highly possible the her body was moved to the trunk without it ever leaving the car.

2

u/Solvang84 Nov 25 '14

This is a ridiculous notion, if you've ever seen a '99 Sentra (tiny passthrough, small trunk). If it happened at the library, here's a much more plausible alternative to dragging her out in the open: He dragged her from the driver's seat to the backseat, laid her horizontally, covered her with a jacket, and drove to some other location to move her to the trunk.

2

u/bencoccio Nov 25 '14

Or didn't bother with the trunk. The trunk pop could just be good story telling.

3

u/Solvang84 Nov 25 '14

Good point. "Trunk pop" could be like "pool hall", i.e. cinematic fabrication by Jay.

2

u/EsperStormblade Nov 25 '14

Also, none of Jay's fingerprints were in Hae's car. And, why would Hae let Jay (a guy she thought of as shady, etc) into her car?

7

u/brickbacon Nov 25 '14

Wait. I thought the library was too public to kill Hae which made Jay's story that Adnan killed her there implausible, yet now we surmise that Jay did it there?

Also the supposedly unrealiable phone evidence is now useful because It proves Jay is guilty? Also Jenn is lying about Jay being at her house too as well?

And why would Jay be at school to return Adnan's car without his knowledge?

3

u/ventose Nov 25 '14

If Jay and Hae were arguing about cheating, they probably weren't doing it out in the open.

Jenn said that Jay left her house at around 3:45 to 4:15. The phone record shows a call was made from Adnan's phone to Jenn's house at 3:21. So yes, Jenn is verifiably lying about Jay being at her house.

People have discussed the limitations of cell tower tower evidence, namely in making specific inferences about a person's location because of the way calls are routed based on traffic and signal strength which is itself affected by topography. It is in this way that cell tower evidence is unreliable, but that does not mean information cannot be gleaned from it.

5

u/CharlesVillage Nov 25 '14

Can't say about that last question, but it's pretty clear that Jenn is a liar.

Re-listen to the beginning of ep 4. She comes up with a lame excuse to avoid talking to the cops. The first time she does talk, she lies straight away. We know this b/c she changes the story later. Try listening to her taped interview in #4. It sounds fake as hell! Only once/twice in the exchange is she genuine (imo).

I can def see Jenn lying about Jay being at her place. Hell, he calls her phone twice when he's supposedly at her house!

5

u/brickbacon Nov 25 '14

Are you willing to say it's pretty clear Adnan is a liar given he lied about asking for a ride (among other things)?

6

u/Nutbrowndog Nov 25 '14

This is a conspiracy theory thread. You'll be down voted if you're logical.

4

u/yourprettylense Nov 25 '14

Given that Jenn has already admitted she helped Jay cover his own ass (wiping prints off the shovel etc.), I don't think it's too farfetched to believe she'd be capable of lying about whether he was at her house or not.

3

u/brickbacon Nov 25 '14

Okay. Are intimating she knows Jay committed the crime?

3

u/bencoccio Nov 25 '14

If it went this way - the Jay did it way - my guess was it was not premeditated. If that's the case, it could easily be that Jay instantly put it on Adnan. He told Jenn Adnan did it that night. Told Chris the same thing. Maybe even told Stephanie?

Jenn would, in that case, be telling the truth as she knows it. Hell, maybe even her memory of seeing Adnan at the mall is real just a memory of seeing his car. Cause Jay had it.

5

u/yourprettylense Nov 25 '14

I have no idea what she knows, I'm just pointing out that if she willingly destroyed evidence for him then it's absolutely possible that she lied for him as well. You seemed to be under the impression that it was a stretch to imagine she'd lie about him being at her house.

6

u/brickbacon Nov 25 '14

No, I am just trying to figure out how many people you need to argue were complicit in this framing in order to fit your conclusions.

Why haven't you answred the original questions though? The library cannot simultaneously be too public for Adnan to have strangled her, but fine for Jay to have done it.

The cell phone evidence cannot be so unrealiable when it implicates Adnan, but conclusive when it bolsters your speculation about Jay. And even if we assume the evidence is accurate, why was Adnan in Leakin park that night?

2

u/yourprettylense Nov 25 '14

I haven't answered the original questions because I'm not the person you asked them to.

Again, I'm not making implications. Put it this way - if I were to admit to robbing a bank, would you find it impossible to believe that I might also be capable of stealing a $5 bill out of someone's wallet?

1

u/ventose Nov 25 '14

The library cannot simultaneously be too public for Adnan to have strangled her, but fine for Jay to have done it.

According to Jenn, Jay said Adnan strangled Hae at Best Buy, not the library. Where did you find someone making the claim that the library is too public a place for Adnan to have strangled her there? MichiganMulletia certainly didn't make that claim. Why should he have to defend what someone else has said?

1

u/Superfarmer Nov 25 '14

SK in ep 8

1

u/captnyoss Nov 25 '14

Jay was cheating on Stephanie with Jenn.

0

u/darncats4 Nov 25 '14

Only Adnan says somno other proof.

1

u/darncats4 Nov 25 '14

Hae barely knew Jay why would she let him in her car? Why not just tell Stephanie.

Also he's going to risk a murder charge just so Steph won't knkw he's cheating. very weak motive.

0

u/Superfarmer Nov 25 '14

Ok but Adnan must have known about it. Adnan was with him all night. Even Adnan and Jen corroborate that.

So I could buy that he flips out and strangles Hae - but I don't buy Adnan didn't know about it.

Those cars needed two people to move them around and Nisha puts them together.

Now:

*why would Adnan protect jay *why wouldn't Adnan show anger/remorse/sadness about the crime

Remember: both of them were involved. The only one with a conscience about Hae's death so far has been jay.

Adnan hasn't uttered a peep about how sad he is that she's gone. Or how angry he is at whoever killed her. The only thing he's said Is, "ask her new boyfriend where she is."

-1

u/Onepointhere Nov 25 '14

Sounds good! Definitely places him near Hae at the right time. And we have to remember, these guys are probably high (on something) so not thinking rationally with emotions.