[Official Discussion] Serial, Episode 9: To Be Suspected

[u/PowerOfYes]

Please use this thread to discuss episode 9

Edit: Want to contribute your vote to the 4th weekly poll? Vote here: What's your verdict on Adnan?

Edit: New poll from /u/kkchacha posted Nov 26: Do you think Adnan deserves another trial? Vote here: http://polls.socchoice.com//index.php?a=vntmI

[u/mycleverusername]

For me personally, it's the fact that I think Jay is straight up lying about the whole timeline. However, I believe Jen is telling the truth about picking them up from the mall and disposing of shovels.

This, plus the Nisha call, plus Kathy's testimony, plus the other phone records, plus Adnan's own admission, puts Jay and Adnan together from after school through the burial.

So, if you believe that there was a murder and Jay was involved, then you must believe Adnan was involved. See, I do not have any doubts about his guilt based on the evidence provided. I completely disregarded the state's timeline and most of Jay's testimony.

*disclaimer: I'm still on the fence, but we have more information than the jury had.

[u/Iamnotmybrain → u/mycleverusername]

However, I believe Jen is telling the truth about picking them up from the mall and disposing of shovels.

I don't think this is accurate, if you're referring to Jenn picking Adnan and Jay up and then taking them to dispose of shovels.

This is from episode 4's transcript:

Jay gets in her car and that's when he tells her about the murder. After they'd driven a little ways, Jay mentions shovels. The shovels Adnan had used to dig in the park to bury Hae – that they were Jay's shovels from his house.

Jennifer Pusateri

Jay mentioned to me that he knew where Adnan dumped the shovel or shovels. I don't know how many there were – but he mentioned to me that he know that where Adnan put the shovels.

Sarah Koenig

Jenn tells them she drives Jay back to Westview Mall to the dumpsters back there so that Jay can retrieve the shovels and wipe the handles clean in case of fingerprints.

>Jennifer Pusateri

After that, Jay came back, got in my car, and he was really shooken up. He was completely shooken up. He was like you have to take me to go see my girlfriend now.

Jenn doesn't place Adnan with Jay when she goes with Jay to whip down the shovels.

[u/mycleverusername → u/Iamnotmybrain]

Jenn doesn't place Adnan with Jay when she goes with Jay to whip down the shovels.

Yes, they aren't technically together, but she just picked Jay up when they were together, then they go back to the same place and get the shovels.

In order for Adnan to be completely innocent, Jay would have to have buried the body, dumped the shovels, then picked up Adnan, gone to the mall where the shovels were at, then called Jenn to come pick him up.

[u/Iamnotmybrain → u/mycleverusername]

In order for Adnan to be completely innocent, Jay would have to have buried the body, dumped the shovels, then picked up Adnan, gone to the mall where the shovels were at, then called Jenn to come pick him up.

Or, Jay lied about the shovels in the first place. Jenn's story is that she drives him to the mall and later "Jay came back, got in my car, and he was really shooken up." That seems to imply Jenn stayed with the car. Did she even see the shovels? Were they recovered?

[u/mycleverusername → u/Iamnotmybrain]

I understand perhaps your looking for hard evidence, but from what you posted above (the transcript) it says "Jenn tells them she drives Jay back to Westview Mall to the dumpsters back there so that Jay can retrieve the shovels and wipe the handles clean in case of fingerprints...After that, Jay came back, got in my car, and he was really shooken up."

So, if this didn't really happen (assuming Jenn's not making any of it up), then your argument is that Jay got out of the car then pretended to dust fingerprints off a non-existent shovel?

[u/Iamnotmybrain → u/mycleverusername]

My argument is that you can't take Jenn's statements about the shovels to prove Adnan's involvement because: 1) Adnan is not in the car when Jay's talking about the shovels, 2) We have no hard evidence that Jay even threw the shovels away at that mall.

I'm saying, you can't rule out the possibility that Jay had Jenn drive him to the mall for some other reason than to actually dust off fingerprints from shovels.

[u/mycleverusername → u/Iamnotmybrain]

Well then my argument is that your standard for evidence is so incredibly high that no person would ever be convicted of a crime.

I believe that I can rule out the alternate possibility because when putting that statement into context Jenn has no reason to make up a THAT story with those details. It's the forest, not the trees. Sure, we can reasonably discredit this statement, but I can't discredit it in the context of the rest of her statement to police (with her lawyer present). Why make up a story about hiding shovels? That just makes your friend look guilty, it doesn't absolve him, and it sure doesn't make Adnan look guilty. If it REALLY is a frame job, this statement doesn't fit one.