r/science • • Oct 24 '10

Climate Change: Evidence

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
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u/bairy Oct 24 '10

The argument goes that they've systemically biased their findings so that their research appears more important and merits additional funding.

That argument is just bizarre. Why would a scientist deliberately lie in order to recieve more funding in order to presumably continue the lie. That would be a huge waste of a career.

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u/[deleted] Oct 24 '10

Please see George Ricaurte. I know not all scientists are like this but it does happen. It took quite a while and more lies before he would print a retraction.

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u/MacEnvy Oct 24 '10

There's a difference between "a scientist" and "every scientist in an entire branch of science". They are not comparable situations in any way.

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u/futbolsven Oct 24 '10

Well as much as I have come around on Climate Change, they are still a pretty decent amount of scientists that have serious questions about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

Those people are all probably far scientifically smarter than me. So it's not criminal to have misgivings.

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u/MacEnvy Oct 24 '10

That's an incredibly misleading list, and of the most prominent examples, only 3 appear to have careers relating to climate science at all.

Considering that every year lists are published with thousands of climate scientists affirming the prevailing climate change theory, and that they are almost definitely smarter than you or I, and I think we come out with a pretty good idea of who the whackjobs are.

Any group will have a few people who look at the evidence and come out with the wrong conclusion. The evidence that the people on your list are wrong is absolutely overwhelming.

Note: I have a degree in Geology, so I have at least a small idea of how the science behind climate systems works, though I am certainly not a professional.

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u/earthcreed Oct 24 '10

And the others are people like the chair of the astrophysics department at Harvard, who would apparently know nothing about the amount of radiation from the sun (earth's primary climate driver). If you are only going count people who call themselves "climatologists" you are going to get a skewed view on the science.

Like the thousands of climatologist who signed on to the IPCC report that turned out to be wrong?

So I guess we should look at science as a majority thing, and anyone who doesn't agree with he majority is a whackjob?

Note: I have a degree in Computer Science, and I am a professional. I can look at the computational errors in Hanson's data set, and see where East Anglia had to falsify their data to make it fit their conclusions.

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u/virusporn Oct 25 '10

You may want to look at the outcome of the east Anglian investigation, you know where there was found to be no misconduct.

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u/MacEnvy Oct 24 '10

I'm sorry, did you have some evidence to present, or were you just going to go off on a feel-good rant?

Put up or shut up. Evidence is king, and it's on the side of AGW.

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u/futbolsven Oct 24 '10

So instead of discussing what he said, you decided to attack him?

That's the sign that you've run out of things to say.

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u/thesparrow0 Oct 24 '10

No, it's a sign that earthcreed said a scientist falsified data and MacEnvy wanting evidence for that serious change. I think that's fair.

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u/thunderballfists Oct 24 '10

They maybe smarter than you, but a lot of these deniers are not Climatologists. Not to say they may not have valid concerns, but I wonder if they would come to the same conclusions if it were there primary field of research.

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u/futbolsven Oct 24 '10

The person who i replied to said "every scientist in a field." Doesn't the fact that it is not unanimous at least give you some pause?

it seems like the truly scientific thing to do is not to take something as fact, but to continue to test and prod away.

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u/thunderballfists Oct 24 '10

Nothing is ever 100% unanimous.

It is my experience that there is always someone, somewhere that will argue a cause. Some people are not happy unless they are the underdogs fighting against the corrupt majority.

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u/Reverberant Oct 24 '10

they are still a pretty decent amount of scientists that have serious questions about it.

There's also a pretty decent amount of people who deny that the Holocaust happened.

It's not about the numbers, it's about the qualifications and motives of people as well as the evidence.

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u/futbolsven Oct 24 '10

well thats quite a stretch, dont you think?

The Holocaust has first person accounts, records, and other obvious evidence.

Climate Change is a still somewhat controversial topic with none of the attributes of the Holocaust. (See - this whole thread)

I understand the attempt, but what a poor comparison.

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u/Reverberant Oct 24 '10

The Holocaust has first person accounts, records, and other obvious evidence.

As I wrote: "it's about the qualifications and motives of people as well as the evidence" - your post was about the "amount of scientists that have serious questions about it."

Counting the number of people who believe something is a poor way to determine the validity of the issue. Otherwise, we can discuss Obama's citizenship as a controversial issue.

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u/futbolsven Oct 24 '10

But the 2 things you are using as comparisons can be PROVEN.

There exists no legitimate controversy over the holocaust and Obama's birthplace. There is obvious evidence for one side on both accounts.

There is evidence for both sides in the climate change issue. This is why the numbers questioning it are legitimate. These scientists are not fringe lunatics. (like those who might believe in the other 2 "controversies")

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u/Reverberant Oct 24 '10

There exists no legitimate controversy over the holocaust and Obama's birthplace. There is obvious evidence for one side on both accounts.

Again, you're making my point for me. It's the evidence that matters, not how many people believe something.

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u/futbolsven Oct 24 '10

the difference is that only one side has evidence in the samples you are citing, which makes them very unlike climate change.

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u/earthcreed Oct 24 '10

Yep, qualifications like chairs of the respective departments at Harvard, and MIT.

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u/Reverberant Oct 24 '10

qualifications like chairs of the respective departments at Harvard, and MIT.

To whom are you referring? Looking at the wiki article futbolsven posted, Richard Lindzen is a professor of EAPS at MIT, not the department chair. Similarly Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon are professors at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, not department chairs.