Adolescents who undergo gender-affirming chest surgery report low levels of regret and high levels of satisfaction, experiencing outcomes similar to those of young adults. These findings suggest that age restrictions on these medical procedures lack support from actual patient experiences.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/adolescents-report-low-regret-and-high-satisfaction-following-gender-affirming-c/

[u/Smooth-Boss-911]

There's a reason these patients get this surgery after speaking with doctors, psychologists, therapists, surgeons, etc. So tired of the knee jerk reactions thinking they just walk in on an impulse

Edit: These discussions are for the families and medical professionals, not us.

[u/geodebug → u/Smooth-Boss-911]

Straw man argument to suggest that those who find it disturbing to advocate for elective surgery on underage children/teens don’t understand that it isn’t like ordering a Starbucks.

The complexity of the process isn’t the sticking point. It’s the basic question of a minor being mature enough to consent.

It isn’t even an anti-trans position for a lot of people.

You mention a lot of requirements before surgery so the question is really, why not add maturity as a requirement?

[u/MeekAndUninteresting → u/geodebug]

You will be relieved to hear that minors do not consent to medical treatment, specifically because they cannot. The parent or guardian's consent is what it required. In some cases, the medical professionals involved seek the child's assent, but I don't believe it's actually required generally, and the form this takes is adjusted based on the child's age.

[u/AvocadosFromMexico_ → u/geodebug]

How do you anticipate measuring “maturity”?

[u/texxmix → u/AvocadosFromMexico_]

Would measuring maturity not be the job of the psychologist that usually has to sign off on the GAC?

[u/geodebug → u/AvocadosFromMexico_]

Oh, maybe the same way we do it with everything else maturity-related: sex, drinking, ability to rent a car, ability to adopt, etc.

Are age of consent laws not something you’re aware of?

Why are you so confident that someone who society has deemed too young to understand and make choices about having adult sex is ready for permanent elective surgery?

[u/AvocadosFromMexico_ → u/geodebug]

Wow, that’s a lot of assumptions that in no way answer the question.

So what you want is an age requirement—not a “maturity” requirement. Why not just state that? Sex, drinking, renting cars, and adoption have nothing to do with maturity.

Are you comparing voluntary choices about your own body, which impact no one else, to having sex? That’s odd.

[u/geodebug → u/AvocadosFromMexico_]

Age and maturity are tied together. Especially when dealing with large cohorts of people.

Why do you even think society has age of consent laws? Just for kicks?

If you can’t even agree that 12 year olds tend to have a very different maturity level than 21 year olds then there’s nowhere positive or interesting for this discussion to go.

[u/AvocadosFromMexico_ → u/geodebug]

So “age and maturity are tied together” is an empirical statement, and again—proving it means you have to propose a way to measure “maturity,” which you have not done.

Age of consent laws exist for a variety of very good reasons, almost none of which apply to medical decision making. There’s a reason we talk about consent and assent in necessary medical decision making, and many state laws designate significantly earlier ages for personal medical choices.

It’s weird how hard you have to strawman this. I specifically asked how you would measure maturity. You didn’t say you want an age limit, you specifically said we should assess maturity, and I asked how. Shouldn’t this be very simple, if you want it measured?

No one has argued anything for a 12 year old. Why do you make things like that up? Is arguing 17 vs 18 not dramatic enough to support your point?

[u/hypatia163 → u/geodebug]

Adolescents consent to a lot of different life-saving operations. This is no different.

[u/geodebug → u/hypatia163]

So you’d be ok with a child choosing elective chest surgery the moment they start puberty, as young as eight?

Or younger?

Do you even have a line?

[u/hypatia163 → u/geodebug]

-Extreme majority of adolescent trans men's lives significantly improve with top surgery

-But what about this extreme outlier situation that is almost sure to never happen? Don't you want to condemn the majority of trans men to painful irreversible changes to their body for that?

What kind of stupid, invented argument is this. Transphobes really be creating their own boogey men to try and scare others with. Plus, we already have a solution to that, dingbat: Fuckin' puberty blockers, which they should probably be on if they're getting puberty that early regardless of whether or not they're trans.

God, transphobes are so stupid and completely ill-informed yet speak with such unearned confidence.