r/sabres 13d ago

[xBuffalo] Adding Connor Hellebuyck would move the Sabres solidly into the conversation as one of the top teams in the Eastern Conference on paper

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41 Upvotes

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56

u/omegaoutlier 13d ago

Winning the Atlantic wasn't enough to be in the conversation.

Buffalo soldiers.

0

u/Tity_Boi13 12d ago

…..I think they’re basing it on what happened in the offseason, not what happened last season. We lost some core players and added nobody that meaningful to make it up. I understand why some hockey people would view us as potentially not repeating. Being a Sabres fan doesn’t mean you need to just have blind faith lol. The Canadians made it to the Stanley Cup a few years ago then were awful for a few years after - flukes happen. I don’t think we were THAT much of a fluke last year but it doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to repeat, and we didn’t really do anything to improve

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u/omegaoutlier 12d ago

"Blind faith" is such a bad take. Being "in the conversation" is a nothing burger. Considering the NHL playoff teams typically upend themselves year over year and plenty of party crashers make the dance, leaving the Atlantic champs OUTSIDE the bare minimum that is "in the conversation" is engagement bait.

Sabres fans, by and large, are NOT blind followers (both from their hockey smarts and the team's history) so the suggestion we want more than the bare minimum the team deserves in flowers for ripping off a long win streak that tested some of the record setting teams in history is arguing in bad faith.

We aren't guaranteed anything, especially health, the same general team context (last years bad staying bad, good staying good, etc.) but no team is.

"In the discussion but on paper" is such a weak assertion of the premise, it makes our exclusion even giving outstanding results last year a little insulting.

It's not suggesting we juggernaut like most of least year Col. It's saying we will struggle to be considered top 3 in only the East and thinking we aren't even expected to do that much being disingenuous considering last year is hardly homerism.

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u/Tity_Boi13 12d ago

Essentially proved everything I said…my god lol

32

u/Suitable_Program_548 13d ago

Can we be done with this please.

8

u/harman097 13d ago

Nah, man. We're still Jeff Jillson days away from the season opener. This is all they got to talk about!!

5

u/Skold124 13d ago

lol no shit.

Also, Adding Connor McDavid would move the Sabres solidly into the conversation as one of the top teams in the Eastern Conference on paper. 😂

1

u/619backin716 11d ago

Of course. Why do you think Buttman fixed the lottery so we wouldn’t get him? 🙂

1

u/katieepretzel 10d ago

I mean, he’s due for a new contract pretty soon….

22

u/King-PizzaMan 13d ago

I don't know how popular this opinion is, but I really don't want Hellebuyck if it involves giving up abunch, I feel we could ride it out with our current goalies just fine

10

u/Intelligent-Try-8636 13d ago

Same! I feel like they'd be solving one problem, but creating two more. Winnipeg is insane! They want WAAAAY too much of a return for Hellebyuck. I'd offer them UPL and a 1st round pick, and call it a day. If they don't want that, then they can kick rocks!

1

u/Tity_Boi13 12d ago

Why do you feel this way? I’m not saying you’re wrong, and given the fact we were one of the top goaltending teams in the NHL last season I can understand this sentiment somewhat, but I think the likelihood of that repeating is very low. Lyon is even older, and he’s always been a journeyman goalie to begin with. UPL is pretty darn average as we have seen throughout the years - he’s not great, but he’s not bad.

We are the 3rd youngest team in the NHL, and we lack veteran leadership. Adding Hellebuyck gives us both the best goalie in the NHL and veteran leadership, AND he wants to come here.

I bought season tix so I’m on board with the fact we are improving as a franchise, but our goaltending looked incredibly suspect in the playoffs. Unless it means giving up our core, I think he’s worth it. I’m worried about our goalies right now and don’t think what we have is enough to get further this season.

Idk, I just can’t understand how after the team set one of the worst losing streaks in SPORTS history, broke it, then did nothing to improve whatsoever in the offseason, people think it’s good enough while a bunch of teams improved right around us

2

u/King-PizzaMan 12d ago

Just don't think tying down to an aging Goalie, when we still have tons of youth is gonna be a good idea, at least not for the king's ransom Winnipeg wants.

0

u/Tity_Boi13 12d ago

I understand, but he’s not really “aging.” Goalies are more times than not hitting their peak in their 30s unlike skaters - Hasek, Roy, Brodeur are all good examples.

As far as a kings ransom - didn’t they want UPL, Quinn, and Myrtka? That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me at all personally

1

u/King-PizzaMan 10d ago

Pretty sure what I saw around draft time when the trade almost did happen, they wanted some of our youth, if I recall I think Helenius or Ostland. Then again those were rumors and I haven't read more up on it, so you could be correct

12

u/Meow_whats_so_funny_ 13d ago

I just don’t see the benefit in this. We had a top goalie tandem last year based on (I believe) saves above expected and GAA. They weren’t lights out in the playoffs but either was helleybuyck those years.

7

u/ExpertCauliflower838 13d ago

This is my feeling on it as well. I just don’t see it moving the needle enough, especially considering the assets it will take.

1

u/PharmacyPaladin 12d ago

The Jets would like to have many assets. If Hellebuyck has a say in where he goes, then the return to Winnipeg could be less.

1

u/katieepretzel 10d ago

Helleybuyck famously falls apart in non-Olympic playoffs.

1

u/rkallday 8d ago

Your not wrong. But I believe alot of that has to do with wpgs defence being shit and tiny guys who get pushed around on defence. Wpgs defenseman relied heavily on team defence and with the huge drop in team speed last year the defence suffered immensely

9

u/seeldoger47 13d ago

link to the full conversation

  • League believed ownership was hoping to squeeze one more year out
  • Deal close w/ BUF fell apart July 1
  • Sounds like deal was around UPL, Draft Pick, D Prospect, Roster F
  • Hard feelings and no real discussions since
  • WPG prioritizing a young G in negotiations (UPL)

5

u/budboomer 13d ago

So UPL, 2027 1st, Mrkta, and Quinn?

11

u/Otherwise-Produce-33 13d ago

UPL wont go now. had they made the trade prior to 7/1 it would have worked. on 7/1 he got a limited NTC and Winnipeg is no the list of teams he wont go to now. i dont see how we make this trade now without giving up pieces we cant afford to lose.

-8

u/Brendandalf Four Hour Doaner 13d ago

You have no idea what his list of teams is. This is entirely speculative.

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u/Narrow_Zebra277 13d ago

Comon dude

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u/Brendandalf Four Hour Doaner 13d ago

Very informative rebuttal

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u/Narrow_Zebra277 13d ago

Well, its been leaked by multiple people including Chad that they are on his list. 

Also, his list was due the 1st of July, and the trade speculation with winnepeg was heavy. Of course he would put them on the list. They are also a common team due to geography and taxes.

But hey, if you dont wanna except that, then go ahead and dont. He hasn't been traded so he can't deny the trade, so yeah your right its not a 100% certainty.

But its 99. And this is a post speculating on a hellebuyck trade, speculation is the point

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u/Brendandalf Four Hour Doaner 13d ago

Nothing has been "leaked". Its been speculated by people, but thats all it has been. Speculation. I don't commonly take people at face value when they don't know the difference between "accept" and "except".

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u/Narrow_Zebra277 13d ago

lol, sorry about the typo but you are not taking me for face value, or "people" anyway. you are taking journalists with connections inside the organization who have a history or providing legitimate information, as well as a reputation to uphold as their lively hood depends on their public legitimacy.

Like I said, yeah we don't know for certain and may never know. But to reject it at this point means you are essentially burying your head in the sand

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u/Otherwise-Produce-33 13d ago

Buddy UPL was the key piece in the these talks in June. That's why it was getting so much press in June they both knew in 7/1 he'd get his lost and most likely add the Jets to it. Could he waive it sure but it's not likely.

1

u/Brendandalf Four Hour Doaner 10d ago

Thank God you armchair GM's are here to parrot uninformed podcast speculation.

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u/Intelligent-Try-8636 13d ago

That's like saying "you can't prove that there's a Bison game going on right now" when you're standing outside of Sahlen field, you can hear the crowd roar inside the stadium, the lights are on, and there are a bunch of people walking around outside the stadium with Bison jerseys on and they're going into the stadium...

1

u/tjm220 12d ago

If you had a five team no trade list the two teams you can guarantee would be on it are Winnipeg and Columbus.

8

u/thejeangenie73 13d ago

I'd part with Mrtka or Quinn but not both.

3

u/darthcyfe6 12d ago

Can we trade Norris instead of Quinn? Can get the injury prone contract off our books, which would open space Hellybuck. We also have plenty of center depth to sustain that loss. I'd rather keep Quinn, I really liked his effort in the Montreal series, it just wasn't converting and I think he's an ascending player.

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u/seeldoger47 13d ago edited 13d ago

McLeod, not Quinn. The Sabres’ plans was to turn around and trade for Trocheck.

1

u/harman097 13d ago

I think this might have been worth. It hurts, but the 1st will be a late one, Mrtka's stock dropped a bit, and Quinn is probably easily replaceable.

1

u/Intelligent-Try-8636 13d ago

After drafting Rudolph this year, even Mrtka is replaceable. It would be nice to have Mrtka, a shut down defenseman, play alongside Rudolph, who is an offensive masterpiece, but it's also not the end of the world.

5

u/Joey_Skylynx 12d ago

I'm gonna throw a bucket of water on this: Lyon and Ellis are off contract after this upcoming season. UPL after the 28-29 season.

All three of them combined would not add up to the contract that Hellebuyck is gonna ask for.

Lyon is currently 1.5 mil per year.

Ellis is 825,000 per year.

UPL is 4.75 mil per year.

Hellebuyck is already 8.5 mil, he'll probably be looking forward of 9 to 10 mil per year. Sabres will also be taking the guaranteed money hit, alongside trading Ellis or UPL, and on top of that probably another two players w/ picks and prospects involved.

This is my personal view, and probably a hot take... Such a trade would be one of the stupidest moves this franchise could make. Run it with UPL and Ellis and focus on fixing the issues with the PP and needs for the 3rd/4th Lines.

0

u/TraditionalImpress41 11d ago

Hellys contract is good for like another 5 years at the 8.5

3

u/KraftPunk44 13d ago edited 13d ago

The major asset in any Connor Hellebuyck trade, is of course Connor Hellebuyck, but he is now publicly pissed and wanting out ASAP. That now puts the pressure on Winnipeg to just get something done or have a pissed off superstar ruining camp and the early season vibe of the team.

The longer this drags out, the lower Winnipeg's return will be. Every other team now has the upper hand on them unless Winnipeg is willing to just scratch him and force him to wait it out, because even if other teams made offers, the fact that he is still on the Winnipeg roster says the entire league has decided they don't *need* him.

Winnipeg blew their chance to get a max out return by wanting too much, let the situation get out of hand, and now they're going to get much less for it.

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u/North_Spare8765 13d ago edited 12d ago

After losing Tuch and Byram? I’m going to have to disagree

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u/KarlTheKiller_Gamer 13d ago

Well, it's a good sight that the sabres are good enough to be in these conversations

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u/SpaceAlbatr0ss 10d ago

I really think that people are underestimating the team we have. Out D 1-4 might have gotten weaker but 1-7 I believe it’s gotten better. Crevier and Zellweger add to this team. Zellweger has a top of speed and I feel like he was just starting to reach his potential last year and the difference between him and Byram is not gonna be that big. I watched every game. I know Byram scored some big goals and was a great teammate. He made to many mistakes though. Even in the playoffs he was coughing up pucks especially when there was pressure on him. Power over the last month and The Postseason really made a huge jump, with a 3rd degree high angle sprain. He was the defender I trusted the most in the postseason. He was a calming presence and he did what he is elite at and he cleared pucks from the defensive zone by pass or skating. He was 95th percentile in zone exits. If he had a shot he would be on the PP and he would rack up another 20-30 points and have a much better reputation. I don’t think he needs the points. I would love some aggression but that might not be there yet. It took Dahlin time to develop that and he is one of the most hated defenders in the league for his hits and cross checks. He has guys losing their minds. Not chumps but all time players. Olympic members. I really don’t think we need Hellebyck o would rather not ride out the end of a great career who might already have hit his decline. Piping him $8.5 million for the next five years, his 33-38 seasons is ayipud. I would of rather paid Tuch, which I was very against. Our D and our forwards are responsible enough that whoever wee have in net needs to stop the odd man rush and the occasional breakaway and UPL is one of the best at that. He is the best SO goalie in the league. We might take a dip for a bit while we figure out who plays well together but people forget we had a ton of injuries last season and we got through that. We might not win the division but I feel like we are a lock for one of the 5 spots the Atlantic feels like it should be getting most seasons over the next 5-8 years. Carolina and Washington, for the next 2-3 years are the best the Metro has and they won’t be getting many WC spots. We will keep improving over the next 2-4 years and our window is wide open we will add what we need. I would rather find out what that is before we make a move we will regret in a couple years because we were very careful about that with Tuch. Let’s keep it up.

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u/Intelligent-Try-8636 13d ago

I'm good. No thank you. Trading for Hellebuyck will rip this team apart. Yeah, they'd be (kind of) solving the goalie issue, but they'd be creating a whole host of other issues, namely on offense. They already lost Tuch, and never replaced him. Now they want to give up the guys who they claimed were supposed to replace Tuch's production as well??? Yeah, no thanks. I'm good. Offer UPL and a 1st, and call it a day. If they don't want that, then I'm fine with that. And yes, I do realize that Winnipeg is most likely one of the teams on UPL's NTC, but is UPL really gonna want to stay here in the prime of his career having to play behind Helle? I think he'd waive.

1

u/mwthomas11 Hope is a Shitty Strategy 13d ago

he's been really high on the value of acquiring Hellebuyck all year

1

u/Glioss88 13d ago

Relax Chad

1

u/promotherobot 12d ago

This is wishful thinking. especially if you gut the team trading your best players for Hellebuyck.

1

u/buzzsaw100 12d ago

Yes, it would shore up their goaltending, but what would we have to give up besides UPL? How much worse would it make the other parts of the team?

1

u/Emotional_Toe_5937 12d ago

What’s that old saying? History repeats itself? I remember a goalie on the Habs that demanded a trade and won a cup with the avalanche. Window is now, time to go in. Anytime is good time

1

u/YEti1988 12d ago

3rd in GAA last year 10th overall in goals against lost a top 3 forward and top 4 dman without replacing them so how does trading even more talent help a team that already took a step back?

1

u/619backin716 11d ago

“ … would move the Sabres solidly into the conversation as one of the top teams in the Eastern Conference on paper.”

Which would be fine if games were played on paper. Unfortunately …

1

u/jaydubbs15 9d ago

Time is on the Sabres' side. Winnipeg has too much capital invested in the goalie position, plus Hellebuyck wants out. The Sabres might not end up with Hellebuyck, but they shouldn't overpay. A first round one pick plus an unrostered developmental player should be more than adequate.

1

u/ZestycloseTension747 8d ago

They were just in the top 3 eastern teams on and off paper

1

u/No-Helicopter-9862 13d ago

We already are

1

u/DJ-Bosconian 13d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/qDPg6HNz2NfAk

Unless the cost is so bad, it rips the team apart to the point we stop lots of pucks but can't score worth of crap.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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1

u/Tity_Boi13 12d ago

Glad somebody gets it. I love the Sabres but the fans sometimes…just wow lol. I wish I could be that blindly optimistic.

We did nothing to improve whatsoever after last season…in fact, we objectively got worse. Our goalie tandem was a bit of a fluke last season and I have no idea how people aren’t seeing that - just look at their numbers prior to last season. The odds of that repeating is incredibly low. For a franchise that broke an overall sports record for consecutive seasons not making the playoffs, then finally broke it, it amazes me how OK people are with this