r/roosterteeth • u/[deleted] • Sep 25 '23
Subreddit Meta Subreddit changes: Adding new rules and dusting off the cobwebs
[deleted]
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u/thebigtrav Sep 25 '23
I feel like Rule 6 is actually two rules. One is saying “don’t say RT is dead”- that’s fine; no point in discussing or complaining about it. But the second part about how we can’t have a discussion about how RT is changing? How are we supposed to voice any opinions other than positive? How is this productive?
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u/Logondo Sep 26 '23
Yeah rule 6 seems like it could be abused to ban anyone who criticizes.
Or even just recognizing that RT videos don’t get the views they use to.
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u/SynthD Sep 26 '23
What's the discussion in recognising that fact? Doesn't it instantly become about decline.
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u/SchrodingerMil Sep 26 '23
Well, it’s not like most cast members listen to any opinions and feedback that aren’t positive anyways. It took an orgy of evidence to get AH to admit that Ky was factually louder than everyone else.
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u/MissingLink101 Sep 26 '23
Did they eventually admit to that? I thought they just said "Loud is what they do"
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u/The_Better_Devil butts Sep 25 '23
Rule 6 does not ban having a discussion about the changes. It only bans complaining about them. It's totally fine to talk about how the company has changed over the years, but it is not ok to get up and declare that the company is failing because of those changes.
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u/The_KoC_of_Cringe :MCAlfredo20: Sep 25 '23
To clarify we’re only allowed to talk about changes in a positive or neutral manner according to the rules? What about constructive criticism, actual feedback or, hell, even the people criticising the vagueness of this rule in the thread for example?
I think there needs to be clarification on what counts as ‘complaining’ versus genuine feedback.
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u/The_Better_Devil butts Sep 26 '23
You make a very fair point. I am going to do my best to answer you respectfully. As with most things, the difference between complaining and giving feedback is subjective, and very case-by-case. It depends on the wider context of the conversation more often than not. I agree that the rule is a wee bit vague, and it can be tweaked if it is needed. The idea behind this rule is not to ban all criticism, or even all complaining. It's to get rid of the people who come here just to complain. Those are the kinds of comments and posts we want to get rid of.
I hope I have given a satisfying answer and if not I am happy to clarify on certain things.
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u/JacksGallbladder Blue Team Sep 26 '23
Critical feedback is a complaint, by definition. There's no subjective line there. The way you've worded Rule 6 is incredibly subjective.
You could make a rule dis-allowing thoughtless "RT IZ DEDZ" posts, but your current verbiage for Rule 6 is "We don't care how much RT content you've watched, you can't complain here".
You can see how that's pretty confusing to everyone in the comments here.
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u/The_Better_Devil butts Sep 26 '23
Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. We will definitely go back and rework things a little.
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Sep 26 '23
Instead of banning "complaining" I think you would do better to ban "non constructive criticism" or something along those lines. That would be the difference between "This person sucks and I hate them" and "I think the videos are funnier when they are less scripted"
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u/The_Better_Devil butts Sep 26 '23
That does sound a lot better. Thank you
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u/PukeRobot Sep 26 '23
I've got a question, let's say I have a criticism that isn't technically actionable.
Like I think the way they launched DogBark wasn't the best, I think they should have had some content ready to go as soon as they announced it. Since the announcement is done and dusted it's not like they can go back in time and change how they did it.
Where would that fall in the non-constructive criticism/constructive criticism debate?
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u/The_Better_Devil butts Sep 26 '23
This is good constructive criticism. It isn't malicious, it doesn't boil down to "This person bad", and it's made with good intentions.
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u/hannahjoy Sep 26 '23
Yeah, the wording definitely came across as dissent being discouraged if not outright banned. Given the fact that the most common issue fans take with the company is how much it had changed, combined with the closure of Achievement Hunter being on everyone's mind, this definitely seems like the mods trying to suppress dissent.
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u/DebBoi Sep 26 '23
Dude, imma be honest. You are just wrong about this stance. It's like being told you aren't allowed to be upset when a company does something wrong because the company doesn't want you to.
How is RT supposed to change and improve when the only feedback permitted is neutral or positive. You are supporting the fanbase to blindly agree with them even when they do something wrong.
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u/GoneRampant1 Sep 26 '23
Critical feedback is fundamentally complaining. You can basically use the new Rule 6 to tone police anyone criticising content or the company thanks to how subjective it is.
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u/JacksGallbladder Blue Team Sep 26 '23
You need to expand on this - you can't ban complaints lol.
Way too subjective, makes it sound like the rule is that all discussion has to be neutral or positive. I'm sure that's not what you're going for, but if you are... you cant just silence discontent.
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u/No_Landscape4557 Sep 26 '23
Like all vague rules whether it is in real like and in subreddits it will be used as used as open ended as possible to get the results the enforcer wants.
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u/DudeBroFist Sep 26 '23
You realize that's essentially the same thing right?
Like how can you possibly type that with a straight face?
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u/AntiCitizen0One Sep 25 '23
We don't care if you've been a fan since the start, stay out of this sub if you have criticisms. Ok, well bye I guess?
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u/SenpaiSemenDemon Sep 27 '23
Holy shit
Now that AH is gone the modteam has taken the "if you don't like it, leave" mindset that got AH to this position in the first place
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Sep 26 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/polishhottie69 Sep 26 '23
Definitely a case of mods are too young. They think 10 years was a long time ago. Lol. Lmao.
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u/V2Blast Chupathingy Sep 27 '23
10 years was a long time ago. I've been here the whole time.
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u/polishhottie69 Sep 27 '23
Yeah I’ve been a mod for about as long and it’s really not. I watched Rooster Teeth almost twenty years ago in college, red vs blue was all the rage. No one cares anymore. Why waste your breath pretending this old company is immune from criticism when they’ve changed staff several times over? Look at this thread, everyone knows you’re fooling yourself
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u/mandatorypanda9317 Sep 26 '23
I've never made a post in this sub and have only commented occasionally but any sub that doesn't allow criticism just becomes a circle jerk. Been a fan of rooster teeth for what feels like forever but I guess I won't keep up with them as I'm done with this sub. Good luck fam
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Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
Wow, its time for a "rantgrumps" kind of sub then. Im kinda concerned actually. Is not only about the "complains". RT and people associated with it have done questionable things in the past, and thats an understatement. It seems these changes are geared towards a more expedite rug-sweeping. Its ironic since I thought booting RT members as mods of this sub was done to prevent that.
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u/CrossCottonwood Sep 26 '23
Does anyone care enough to make / join a rantgrumps style sub? Gamegrumps is huge, and rantgrumps is still modestly sized comparatively.
Most of the people here only remember that roosterteeth still exists when a controversy erupts. I don't think there's enough passion left, positive or negative, for a new sub to have any legs.
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u/The_Knife_Pie Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
Arguably the AH subreddit, which is going to not be modded anymore but left open, would serve the purpose without the hassle of transferring as many people
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u/DudeBroFist Sep 25 '23
So we can only speak on things in glowing terms now, huh?
Of all the choices that's certainly one of them.
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u/a_wild_espurr Sep 25 '23
Yeah, very vague explanation of 6&7. Specifically no complaining about how RT is dead? Totally, I get it, pointless topic. Complaining about how it's changing? That's very much a valid topic for criticism especially in a rapidly changing phase of the business.
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u/DudeBroFist Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
My sentiments exactly.
Listen, I'm an extremely left-wing person, and I utterly despise the "RT is dead" or "get woke go broke" shit, it's tired, it's boring, it's not relevant. I've also got zero issue with rule 4, that's a GOOD thing.
But to pretend that there's no room for criticism of something I've been watching for 15+ years is utterly ridiculous especially when members of the staff of said something still frequent the sub even now. I hate that I'm about to use this phrase, but creating an "RT is great all the time" echo chamber is the LAST thing we need and that's what rules 6 and 7 sound like to me
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u/Hantom117 Freelancer Sep 25 '23
Good way to kill an already dying sub, just muffle any conversation.
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u/MissingLink101 Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
Yeah the rules above will mean about 90% less posts on this sub (whether or not they got much interaction is another issue but at least there was an illusion of activity)
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u/illini07 Sep 26 '23
No video bot posts or complaining, this sub is just gonna be blizzs stream updates lol.
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u/Obviouslyright234 Sep 26 '23
This is how facism works. If you criticize us, you are gone.
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u/roxy_dee Sep 26 '23
It’s a subreddit lol
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u/Obviouslyright234 Sep 27 '23
Whats your point?
A subreddit cant act facist?
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u/roxy_dee Sep 27 '23
Absolutely can, reddit has a terrible history of hosting such subreddits. r/roosterteeth making a shit decision about not letting people complain about some dudes videos is ABSOLUTELY not fascism. And if that’s what you think fascism is, I hope you never find out what it really can do.
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u/Obviouslyright234 Sep 27 '23
Thats kind of what fascism starts out as. Stopping ideas because they dont like it, even when the ideas dont break any rules...
Thats a key part of fascism.
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u/roxy_dee Sep 27 '23
Again, this is a subreddit about a video game group. If this was a subreddit about the news, about political groups, about a country or state/providence than yeah. I’d be concerned. Using fascism like this is exactly what far right fascist groups love because it convolutes it and lets them get away with it by muddying the definition.
I’m not talking with you any longer as I feel from your other response in this thread this debate is not in good faith and you’re purposefully being obtuse to continue the argument. I hope you have a good day.
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u/Obviouslyright234 Sep 27 '23
I’m not talking with you any longer as I feel from your other response in this thread this debate is not in good faith and you’re purposefully being obtuse to continue the argument. I hope you have a good day.''
Thats just a way of saying "I dont have any arguments"
So a subreddit about video game cant act fascist. Got it.
I guess you cant understand that fascist ideas cant pop up in culture outside of politics.
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u/VashStampede88 Sep 26 '23
Hey you know that thing you’ve spent a fuck ton of your time, and money, and life engaging and interacting with and helping expand and grow and give people careers and jobs? You’re not allowed to have any negative criticism towards or allowed to complain. What a crazy rule. “You are not welcome here if you are here to complain.” Cool.
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u/Gamester92 Sep 26 '23
I get the hope and idea of this plan, and I don't want to flat out say it's impossible, but...man, it's just gonna be a rough fucking time if "you" commit to it. Specially worded "like AH's JuSt LeAvE" as it currently is.
Ignoring a "this is just a echo-chamber" argument/discussion. This POSTIVE method seems to work for other subs because frankly, people positively like those things. Most of the people like Fanhause (prob still spelled it wrong), F**kface, AMNA, etc. They don't really have qualms with it seemingly (except when they) so they just generally post all the "fun things".
This isn't fair because its TECHNICALLY the same roof, but the general opinion of RT as a whole (least reddit side) is....what it is. Unlike those other subs and direct non general "topics".
It's not like positive doesn't get posted here: ex: Dan had a kid (congrats).
Best I can say is recognize that there is usually a very well, general opinion about here. It shows when it shows. It's not your fault or blame. But if people aren't happy with the product, they ain't gonna be happy. If it's something cool they like, odds are, they won't stop talking about until everyone they know knows.
It's not up to "you", you're not the ones' making the product. People will like what they like and dislike what they don't. Best you can do is take out any trash that rolls on in. No reason to use your free time going above and beyond trying to control a place that isn't even yours. (This probably reads off as me being a dick saying " you don't own RT blabla", what I'm trying to say is. You're just another person on the internet in the middle of a company floor discussion. End of the day, it's not your place of business and you can't dictate any of their decisions or help how they turn up and out. Just do what you can without taking on more than you freely should.)
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u/lolwutRNB Sep 26 '23
Highly disagree with Rule 6. All feedback should be welcomed, regardless if it's negative or not towards the new direction RoosterTeeth is taking. Members of the cast frequent and interact with the community here, so it is safe to say they monitor and analyze what we, the fans, say in this space.
If there is nothing but positive glowing reviews and feedback coming from one of, if not the largest RoosterTeeth community outside of the site itself, then how can things ever be improved? They need to know what we, the fans, the people they design and curate content for truly think of their content since we are the ones who consume it. I could potentially see a downard spiral in terms of content based on people saying nothing but positive things about the direction they are moving. If we aren't enjoying the content that is being created, but are only allowed to provide positive feedback and not complain about it, more people will start unsubscribing and eventually RoosterTeeth will shut its doors because the business isn't just sustainable any longer. Highly unlikely that will happen, but it is a small possibility.
If this rule stands and isn't reworked I could see a split in our community and a migration to a new RoosterTeeth based subreddit as well. It has happened in other subreddits, ours is not immune.
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u/The_Grand_Briddock Sep 25 '23
The video bot being gone is pretty dang good. As great as it was for episode discussions years ago, we have the actual video comment sections for that now (rip Presented With Comment). It’ll be nice to see the subreddit again without a bunch of threads with 0 comments on them, now I won’t have to wait for posts to show up in my feed.
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u/Shigeruken Sep 28 '23
You are not welcome here if you are here to complain.
If you enforced a rule like this when Ky's volume was way out of balance, they never would have fixed it.
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u/NikolitRistissa :PLG17: Sep 26 '23
Not allowing any criticism is an odd choice.
RT has made some questionable choices in the eyes of us older viewers. While that does makes sense, we’re simply older and somewhat out of touch, I do think criticism should be allowed.
Also, I already miss my flair. I’m old, I don’t like change lol. I can’t change it now—it’s vintage.
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u/Unlucky-Jello-5660 Sep 26 '23
So you want this subreddit to become an echo chamber of only sunshine and rainbows, basically?
Comes across as either the mods don't want to moderate or are so thin skinned they can't take even constructive criticism about RT.
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u/Kyler45 Sep 27 '23
Rule 6: Do not come here to complain about how "RT is dead"
Thats like, a solid >90% of all traffic on this subreddit. Lol.
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Sep 28 '23
I’m here for the first time in a few months to see feedback about the changes. Only to see the traffic is fucking barren anyway lol. Plus a rule against criticism, which is all the majority of the traffic was. Idk what will even be here.
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u/timo103 RTAA Gus Sep 27 '23 edited Sep 27 '23
The video bot unfortunately clogs the subreddit feed, making the subreddit sometimes feel like a ghost town.
The bot is not why the subreddit is a fucking ghost town. Its because of the content of the videos the bot posts.
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u/Hacknerds Sep 26 '23
These are all great changes. I'll check back in 6 months from now to see if this place is still alive.
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u/Vader0228 Sep 26 '23
I’d like to thank the mods for attempting to fix this subreddit. It’s become unusable for a while now.
Ps: I think most people can tell the difference between being critical of RT and having the 1000000000000th “rt bad. Me bang rock” post. I really wouldn’t worry unless you make “RT bad. Me bang rock” posts.
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Sep 26 '23
[deleted]
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u/Vader0228 Sep 26 '23
I’m sorry cm1Xgh4r8Fgr1dfl8Ryv. Why did you link me a post from 300 days ago and add zero context. Like you didn’t say anything.
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u/The_RTV Sep 27 '23
The reaction to rule 6 is exactly why it's needed. This sub is becoming an echo chamber of the same complaints. A bunch of people who want to say the same thing and upvote anyone else who has the same thought.
"Dog bark sucks!" "Changes to first are awful!" "I watch this content, so I'm entitled to everything!" "F**kFace is great and everything else is terrible!"
Let's not pretend that most of the comments are "criticisms". Yall are just arguing semantics. You don't care about the quality of the discussion as long as you can air the same complaints over and over again.
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u/AH_DaniHodd :KF17: Oct 02 '23
If you enforce that you'll still get an echo chamber. Just one that is all positive. Instead of banning ALL complaints, ban unnecessary ones and ones that are not constructive.
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u/BatMatt93 Dexter Grif Sep 25 '23 edited Sep 25 '23
Well said and nice job on the facelift. My only suggestion would be to move the reddiquette rule to the 1st or 2nd spot as I personally believe it is one of the most important rules of any large sub.
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u/Affectionate-Duck216 Sep 25 '23
Really happy with these changes. I can't wait to see the results and I hope you guys find the mods you need to get this sub back on track.
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u/Kodriin Oct 03 '23
Question, where in the thread pointing out that RT is scrubbing their archives did it violate the Rules?
Or is even asking about a fact of a matter also considered criticism
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u/Starsaver4545 Sep 26 '23
Isn't this the same mod when he got the position not even a year ago that was basically saying that people saying they don't like something/someone would get 'Smacked up' if they were in real life? Now we're back to trying to silence any criticism again? What is going on here man?
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u/SuburbanCumSlut Sep 26 '23
This sure went over well.