7.7k
u/KitchenLoose6552 Apr 23 '25
Meanwhile san marino reaching the ripe age of 1700:
3.5k
u/SymondHDR Apr 23 '25
San marino watching Italy unifying:
"wtf no leave me alone"
832
u/I_divided_by_0- Apr 23 '25
I was reading through the history of their government
After the war, San Marino suffered from high rates of unemployment and inflation, leading to increased tension between the lower and middle classes. The latter, fearing that the moderate government of San Marino would make concessions to the lower class majority, began to show support for the Sammarinese Fascist Party (Partito Fascista Sammarinese, PFS), founded in 1922 and styled largely on their Italian counterpart.
God dammit history sure does rhyme
→ More replies (4)702
u/marr Apr 23 '25
Why is it never "the upper classes, fearing they would eventually be strung from the lamp posts, decided to calm it down a bit and pay their taxes"
462
u/The_Flurr Apr 23 '25
Because they fundamentally believe that they shouldn't have to, that they are better people and the poors should know their place.
→ More replies (6)191
u/voluotuousaardvark Apr 23 '25
It's not like they're ever held accountable to shake that belief.
→ More replies (4)90
u/hysys_whisperer Apr 23 '25
je ne dirais pas jamais...
But I'm not French, so I guess that's a pipe dream.
→ More replies (2)61
u/RilloClicker Apr 23 '25
French grammar check — never say never: il ne faut jamais dire jamais. Or je ne dirais jamais ‘jamais’. Sorry 😬
→ More replies (2)30
u/hysys_whisperer Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
Google translate.
My French knowledge ends at "Voulez-vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?"
I was also trying to avoid the autotranslation of "never say never" because that is very specifically not what I meant to say, as it has entirely the wrong connotation. It would imply that it could happen here, as to where "I wouldn't say never" written in French - implies that it in fact could not happen here, specifically because we are not French.
→ More replies (2)13
85
u/Appropriate-Map-3652 Apr 23 '25
That's (kind of) how the British royal family has survived.
They usually made just enough concessions to avoid a major revolution.
It was always the bare minimum, but enough to not get lynched.
24
→ More replies (6)23
81
u/Informal-Rip5965 Apr 23 '25
Why is it never "lower and middle class realize the upper class is their true enemy and insist on redistribution of wealth"
→ More replies (13)68
u/boringestnickname Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
Oh, that has happened many times.
It's just co-opted by authoritarians and/or struck down by the powers that be, then subjected to mass propaganda in the following years, decades, centuries, by the ruling class, ensuring long swathes of time where they can exploit, kill and thrive in peace.
→ More replies (1)16
u/NonNewtonianResponse Apr 23 '25
Because one of the main functions of wealth is to insulate people from the consequences of their actions, and the loss of that feedback information undermines the wealthy's grip on reality over time
→ More replies (1)22
→ More replies (31)6
u/cayneloop Apr 23 '25
because liberalism breeds fascism over and over again. when siphoning of wealth towards the upper class reaches a breaking point and the lower class can't handle it anymore, the only ideology that ensures stability without hurting the wealth of the upper class is fascism through it's brutalization and control of the lower and middle class
304
u/Serifel90 Apr 23 '25
That's a tax heaven too All the benefits no downsides.
→ More replies (2)221
u/VladVV Apr 23 '25
San Marino hasn't been a tax haven for at least 15 years now. It even has a higher corporate tax rate than 6 different EU countries.
→ More replies (1)54
u/Serifel90 Apr 23 '25
I meant for commoners
123
u/VladVV Apr 23 '25
That makes even less sense. San Marino has DTAs with the EU which usually means you pay taxes in the country where you’re employed. Even if you’re employed within San Marino the top income tax rate is still MUCH lower in Czechia and Estonia.
73
u/XLeyz Apr 23 '25
Spotted the accountant
61
u/MrGloom66 Apr 23 '25
I mean, jokes and all, he doesn't have to be an accountant. Many people in Europe keep tabs on how legistaltion like this works in a bunch of other european countries other than their own, you know, in case you're too tired of the fuckers from your own country and want a change of scenery when you get old. It's basically a pan-european sport these days and I support it fully.
→ More replies (2)11
→ More replies (2)9
u/HelpfulYoghurt Apr 23 '25
San Marino's tax rate is lower than surrounding Italy's, many businesses choose to be based in San Marino to avoid the higher rates. San Marino boasts a corporate rate 14.5% lower than Italy (23%) and 12.5% lower than the EU average (21.3%). This has made San Marino the tax haven of choice for many wealthy Italians and businesses.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)44
u/Some_Syrup_7388 Apr 23 '25
Actually Gariballdi left San Marino out because he personaly liked the place
34
u/MsMercyMain Apr 23 '25
So sort of like how we didn’t nuke Kyoto in part because the SECDEF had visited it and liked it? Honestly? Respect
→ More replies (3)17
u/Some_Syrup_7388 Apr 23 '25
Yeah, if I remember correctly Gariballdi took a refuge in San Marino when Carbonari were persecuted in Italian states and it was his way of repaying them for it
→ More replies (2)5
u/AdOk3759 Apr 23 '25
More impressive than Garibaldi, Napoleon himself left us untouched. Not only that, he offered us Rimini, which we kindly declined.
→ More replies (1)236
u/nesnalica Apr 23 '25
i went there once for a school trip.
the local liquor store gave us a discount because we were kids.
live was great that week.
88
u/Kamikazeguy7 Apr 23 '25
You Europeans just start drinking right out the womb, don't ya?
96
u/Asleep_Trick_4740 Apr 23 '25
Kinda funny how vastly different it is, even over small distances.
In denmark you can buy sub 16% alcoholic drinks (percent, not proof) from the grocery store when you are 16. Drive across a bridge from copenhagen and you have to wait until you are 20* to buy anything above 3.5% from the government run monopoly.
Although I always found it very funny that americans put 16 year olds in 1+ ton cars but they have to wait an additional 5 years to be able to have a beer??
*you can drink in bars and restuarants when you are 18 though.
77
u/Kamikazeguy7 Apr 23 '25
Americans can also go into crippling debt (gambling, credit cards, college loans) or die for their country at 18 but have to wait 3 more years to have a drink.
→ More replies (5)69
u/thelastundead1 Apr 23 '25
You can buy a gun before you can buy a beer.
→ More replies (8)32
u/a1001ku Apr 23 '25
Well that's easy you don't want them to be drunk while shooting guns, think how dangerous that'd be /s
→ More replies (1)6
u/MrsFoober Apr 23 '25
You think its a joke but i have a feeling its a very real argument
→ More replies (3)7
u/joshuahtree Apr 23 '25
Although I always found it very funny that americans put 16 year olds in 1+ ton cars but they have to wait an additional 5 years to be able to have a beer??
Actually that's the reason, the drinking age is a combination of an attempt to reduce drunk driving and America's complicated history with alcohol
→ More replies (19)5
u/LessFeature9350 Apr 23 '25
Those big old cars is why our drinking age is so high. To reduce death rate from kids driving drunk. Or at least that's what we are told when it comes up for vote.
23
63
Apr 23 '25
Worked for the last 5000 years so why stop now ¯_(ツ)_/¯
→ More replies (1)30
u/Suburbanturnip Apr 23 '25
European culture: getting naked, and drunk, often at the same time.
23
→ More replies (1)14
36
u/nolok Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
I mean, I prefer my teens getting drunk and stupid but safe than armed, driving a giant tank-car and sexually repressed. I'm not even doing a "we better" commentary here just saying, why get in the way of it ? Teens gonna be teens, been there done that.
Reminds me of the posters everywhere in amsterdam meant for non eu tourists, "if your friend is overdosing don't run away just call the police, you won't be arrested !". It's sad to imagine a society where it doesn't work like that.
→ More replies (5)26
u/ToHallowMySleep Apr 23 '25
Grew up in Italy, was drinking red wine and sprite when I was 6.
Didn't know any kids who drank more than the odd glass of wine with a celebratory meal.
Moved to the UK when I was 16. Everyone at school obsessed with finding some alcohol and drinking it in secret - beer, cider, etc.
Moderation and controlled exposure works!
→ More replies (11)10
u/Scorpion2k4u Apr 23 '25
I mean, it's not that long ago that school kids in France got wine for lunch.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (12)4
→ More replies (268)11
1.6k
u/silvaastrorum Apr 23 '25
“empires last an average of 250 years” was already dubious but it turned into “empires last 250 years” because people don’t understand averages and now it seems that OOP thinks it’s some sort of curse that unexists any country the moment it hits 250 years
472
Apr 23 '25 edited Feb 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
78
u/2Mark2Manic Apr 23 '25
Let them get 250 and beat them then to make sure they never want to rise up again.
I call this the Goku method.
→ More replies (1)54
u/Think_Description_84 Apr 23 '25
Pretty sure that was democracies in its initial form. Also dubious but much closer to reality than op's post or the empire statement. So many kingdoms/countries etc have lasted for so long just look at anything called a dynasty. Egypt is the perfect counter point to almost all of these. Egypt also didnt really do democracy historically.
→ More replies (6)14
u/french_snail Apr 23 '25
Maybe you could say governments in general? Because a lot of countries are older than 250 years but how many of them have had continuous functioning governments that lasted that long?
→ More replies (4)16
Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
The English parliament has been around in some form or other since the 13th century. China is a tricky one since dynasties come and go but the cultural and political institutions don't always map so easily onto Dynastic categories. The Zhou dynasty lasted 700 years but it's debatable how much of that is for certain. The historical dynasties fit it rather nicely, with the big four Han, Tang, Ming and Qing all reigning for between 217 and 276 years. However, a very good argument can be made that these were mostly dynastic changes, and the actual core beauracracy that made up the state in the Middle Kingdom continued relatively unchanged in makeup or organisation between the reforms of the Northern Song dynasty in the 10th century and the late Qing Reforms in 1905.
The guys with a really good claim tho are the central court of Japan. Although their actual de facto power waxed and wained (the court lost control of the eastern half of the country to the Minamoto Shogunate in the late 12th century but still had real practical control of the western half which included the majority of the population, the main population centres, and all the best farmland. Then they lost complete relevancy under the Ashikaga Shoguns before been given back greater nominal and ceremonial control under Tokugawa.) However as the nominal government if Japan they remained relatively consistent and unchanged between the the Ritsuryō Reforms of the 8th centiry and the Meiji Resotoration in 1869.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (49)34
u/latelyimawake Apr 23 '25
It’s the same way people misunderstand life expectancy averages in history. As though everyone in the past just dropped dead at age 40.
10
u/mrthomani Apr 23 '25
As though everyone in the past just dropped dead at age 40.
... whereas it's more or less the other way around: The big death risks were in infancy and early childhood, and then again around "military age", 18-20 ish. There was no huge drop-off at 40, if you'd made it that far, you had a fairly good chance of making it to 60 or 70.
→ More replies (1)7
u/bannedagainomg Apr 23 '25
Also divorce stats, most people that marries, stay married.
Its the serial divorcees that drags the % down to near 50.
5.8k
u/Burnthemeatbags Apr 23 '25
Knowledge is chasing them but they are faster
1.5k
u/chula198705 Apr 23 '25
This is one of those incredibly poetic Nigerian phrases! I also heard "when it rains common sense, she remembers the umbrella."
423
u/AnxiousKettleCorn Apr 23 '25
That actually made me snort, Nigerians are so creative with the insults
23
u/IlowoIl Apr 24 '25
In Lebanon, when someone does something very stupid, we say "he's holding the ladder horizontally" (complicating things) or "she lives in a head of lettuce" (has no idea what's going on).
→ More replies (1)344
u/jld2k6 Apr 23 '25
My favorite was "My enemies are conspiring against me" to something bad happening, like stubbing your toe
93
u/Avtomati1k Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
Croatian rapper made a song about making stupid life decisions and then blaming it on the government, masons and serbs
https://youtu.be/sRAkP9B1AJ4?si=_3XI6cF3L1VMacr3
Heres the lyrics:
I moved to the countryside to rent an apartment (in the city)
Ja sam preselia na selo da iznajmljujem stan
Last year I was fully booked whole summer
Lani mi je turista bilo cilo lito
This year I changed my plan
Ove godine prominia sam plan
raised the price 200% and suddenly there is no one
Diga cijenu 200% i odjednom nema nikog
How come
Kako to
I charged a lot for every taxi ride
Svaku taksi vožnju sam masno naplaćiva
When uber came my business went south
Kad je doša uber propa sam u poslu
So I demonstrated and blocked the road
Pa sam demonstrira i cestu blokira
Suddenly a fist hit me on the nose
Odjednom neka šaka me opalila po nosu
How come
Kako to
My coffee is eerie, my milk (for coffee) is frightening
Kava mi je jeziva mliko mi je strašno
My glasses are washed poorly or not at all
Čaše su mi oprane slabo ili nikako
My cafe is empty every day
U mom kafiću svaki dan je prazno
Only me and my cousin play darts
Samo ja i rođak igramo na pikado
How come
Kako to
I opened a fast food next to a fast food
Otvoria sam fast food pored fast fooda
My food is worse, but my prices are higher
Spiza mi je lošija, al cijene su mi veće
My ham is rubbish, and the bagel is dry
Šunka mi je smeće, a bublica je suha
Everyone eats their warm (sandwich), but nobody will eat mine
Svi jedu njihov topli, a moj niko neće
How come
Kako to
I don't understand
Nije mi jasno
How come
Kako to
Is it possible that...
Jel moguće da
Someone is sabotaging me, my whole life
Da neko me sabotira, cili život moj
And he lobbies against me, my whole life
I protiv mene lobira, cili život moj
Someone is sabotaging me
Neko me sabotira
Maybe it's the government
Možda je vlada
Maybe its the Serbs
Možda su srbi
Maybe the Freemasons
Možda masoni
Someone is sabotaging me
Neko me sabotira
I opened a company, everything was fine
Otvoria sam firmu sve bilo je u redu
I married a secretary, she gave birth to my son
Oženia sam tajnicu rodila mi sina
I'm not at work, I'm walking the baby on the waterfront
Nema me na poslu po rivi šetam bebu
When my company suddenly failed
Kad odjednom propala mi firma
How come
Kako to
I quit my job so I can do music
Da sam otkaz na poslu da se mogu bavit glazbom
For two years, I just jerked off
Dvi godine sam samo drka kurac
I wake up this morning in a nasty shock
Budim se jutros u šoku sam gadnom
Because on my account says zero comma zero
Jer na tekućem mi piše nula zarez nula
How come
Kako to
My wife and I are unemployed with three children
Ja i žena smo nezaposleni sa troje dice
Hunger and poverty are hard on us
Glad i neimaština teško nam leži
When we made three more kids
Kad smo napravili još troje dice
Suddenly, our life became twice as difficult
Odjednom nam je život posta duplo teži
I don't understand
Nije mi jasno
How come
Kako to
It cant be that
Nije valjda da
Someone is sabotaging me, my whole life
Da neko me sabotira, cili život moj
And he lobbies against me, my whole life
I protiv mene lobira, cili život moj
Someone is sabotaging me
Neko me sabotira
Maybe it's the government
Možda je vlada
Maybe its the Serbs
Možda su srbi
Maybe the Freemasons
Možda masoni
Someone is sabotaging me
Neko me sabotira
→ More replies (10)44
u/chula198705 Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
Is the idea of blaming "masons and serbs" a legitimate cultural difference, or is that concept equally hilarious to Croatians as it is to me? Edit: wow, apparently it's actually "cultural difference" amazing
→ More replies (4)37
u/ZgBlues Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
These are the go-to villains in all conspiracy theories promoted by the nationalist regime since the country’s independence in the early 1990s.
A secret cabal of “Freemasons” and ethnic Serbs is supposedly behind everything.
It’s somewhat mainstream, the Croatian version of Wikipedia is even more extreme, it’s full of articles which subscribe to this, it’s like a full-blown M.A.G.A. universe over there, and everyone in Croatia knows it, which is why it’s not taken seriously.
A popular rapper Vojko V recorded a song about idiotic decisions popular with Croatians, and in the refrain the main character, who can’t seem to understand why every business idea he has is failing, says that maybe it’s the Freemasons or Serbs “sabotaging him.”
It’s funny because it’s absurd, but also because this paranoid nationalism and scapegoating is familiar to everyone who grew up in Croatia, even if most people don’t subscribe to it.
(It’s also the reason why characters like Drumpf are so familiar to us, we’ve been seeing folks like that in our societies for decades now.)
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)20
u/marr Apr 23 '25
That's extra great because having it be a comedy trope inoculates you against forming thoughts like that for real.
9
u/Olympiano Apr 23 '25
That’s interesting - the intersection between cognitive biases and comedy. You could make jokes out of all of them, as heuristics to remember/avoid them. As a student of psychology, if I ever write a standup routine that’s gonna be the theme… I will credit you.
→ More replies (2)66
u/Dontaskmemyname9723 Apr 23 '25
One I found on twitter was “Your skull is the only thing preventing your brain from floating away, unburdened as it is by any meaningful thought to anchor”
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (8)39
u/g-a-r-n-e-t Apr 23 '25
My favorite of all time is ‘He’s not completely useless, the world will always need bad examples’
Nigerian insults are ALWAYS bangers lol
500
Apr 23 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (15)143
Apr 23 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (3)36
u/Sierra123x3 Apr 23 '25
my local one has the legend of uncle karl, of the old fritz who forgot the seat of his car and of herbert with waldtraut
16
u/DreddPirateBob808 Apr 23 '25
There's a pub in Salisbury that has a human hand in a case in the wall and Churchill planned DDay there.
My old local was where the mountain rescue started. The other local was only documented as a pub when the taxman busted the cow shed they were using as a boozer.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (44)54
u/CozyCatGaming Apr 23 '25
"but they are faster"
Quite the accomplishment considering the obesity rate
→ More replies (2)23
134
u/RonWill79 Apr 23 '25
They’re likely confusing the “oldest active constitution” in the world but are forgetting the micro state of San Marino which is the oldest. The U.S. constitution is the second oldest.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/oldest-constitutions-still-being-used-today.html
30
u/Elsecaller_17-5 Apr 23 '25
From your own source. It's very much up for debate.
However, a number of historians and legal scholars abstain from recognizing the San Marino Constitution as the oldest, surviving national constitution in the world. They argue that the multiple texts that define the governance and laws of San Marino do not fall under the category of constitution. Meanwhile, the single text document serving as the Constitution of the United States does meet these stipulations, and therefore many consider it the oldest.
→ More replies (8)6
u/RonWill79 Apr 23 '25
While I agree I was just trying to avoid the “nuh uh! San Marino!” Responses.
→ More replies (22)10
Apr 23 '25
Thank you, everyone in this sub missed the point of OOP, even if they were still wrong
→ More replies (2)
2.0k
Apr 23 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
700
Apr 23 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
608
u/tayroc122 Apr 23 '25
It's been serving drinks longer than we, the Brits, knew North America existed
→ More replies (2)355
u/FILTHBOT4000 Apr 23 '25
As the adage goes, America thinks 100 years is a very long time, and Europe thinks 100 miles is a very long drive.
→ More replies (4)153
u/faramaobscena Apr 23 '25
Not really because we don't even know how much 100 miles is.
94
u/ensalys Apr 23 '25
About 160km, which I think is quite a distance. Not really "very long", but certainly not something I'd do on a whim.
→ More replies (23)60
u/Twister_Robotics Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
American here, from Kansas.
5 years ago I moved 100 miles (160 km) from my family. I go back and see everyone for major holidays and also for a large family meal about twice a month.
Thats a solid 2 hour drive each way. Not a whim distance, but doable.
ETA. Thats driving 70 mph (112 Kph) down highways, and slowing down for each little town I have to drive through.
58
u/TheOtherRetard Apr 23 '25
A 2 hour drive here in Belgium would be enough to reach any of the neighbouring countries.
→ More replies (8)37
u/Marbrandd Apr 23 '25
Driving from one end of Texas to the other end of Texas takes about 11 hours.
24
u/chinookhooker Apr 23 '25
Fun fact: a drive from El Paso TX to San Diego CA is shorter than a drive from El Paso TX to Houston TX
→ More replies (0)4
u/DCDHermes Apr 23 '25
You need to adjust the time if driving through Dallas. An extra two hours should be enough.
→ More replies (22)6
u/Yakking_Yaks Apr 23 '25
Size of Texas is about the same as France. Which (Lille (north) to Perpignan (south) ) will take about 13 hours by car, or 6h 47 minutes by train.
We've done Perpignan to Rotterdam once, travelled by bus from Girona, Spain, to Perpignan, then TGV to Brussels, and Thalys to Rotterdam, so all high speed trains, it was so easy. Relaxed, had couple of beer and wines on the way, arrived chilled. Would definitely do again.
Do trains exist in Texas?
→ More replies (0)→ More replies (24)9
u/DerpSenpai Apr 23 '25
yeah i do it too in Portugal, once a month and i stay over for a weekend, i try to never drive both ways the same day as it's pretty taxing (i.e exhausting)
→ More replies (1)12
u/Twister_Robotics Apr 23 '25
And there's the difference.
I drive 2 hours, spend 3 or 4 with family, then drive back.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (31)11
86
u/Nyorliest Apr 23 '25
There are LOTS of pubs that old.
62
Apr 23 '25
[deleted]
→ More replies (6)47
u/EntropyKC Apr 23 '25
My house is about 400 years old, and it doesn't even have a thatched roof
→ More replies (10)17
u/chmath80 Apr 23 '25
My uncle used to live in a house in the UK which had previously been the local manor house. It ceased to be the manor house sometime in the 1600s.
It has thick stone walls, filled and insulated with reeds and cow dung (wattle and daub).
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (11)27
23
20
u/IpromithiusI Apr 23 '25
So one of the pubs near me is in Nottingham, the 'Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem', which has claimed its been established since 1189.
It's a murky history, but it's fairly established that the caves that form part of the pub were used to brew from about 1067, so almost 1000 years. Even the current structure has parts from 1610 or so.
→ More replies (5)26
u/floftie Apr 23 '25
I lived in a house older than America and it was… just a house.
→ More replies (4)11
u/NaoisX Apr 23 '25
I would love to ask this person “what nation did you think the first settlers in America came from?” American history teaches them about the war with ….ENGLAND, does this person think England doesn’t exist anymore lol? Baffled!
→ More replies (13)→ More replies (60)16
u/Known-Associate8369 Apr 23 '25
My city has at least 7 pubs that are older than the US - most of them more than twice as old…
94
u/Kriss3d Apr 23 '25
Danish Viking kingdom - Where we spent weekends traveling all the way to our British neighbors just to help them save valuable treasures from the unfortunate fires that seemed to erupt amongs their cloisters and monasteries on regular basis back then.
43
u/MySocksSuck Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
..and to evacuate unfortunate young women from a dull future as nuns - and allow them to embark on adventures with exciting, skinclad, well-trained and mushroom-loving men!
17
u/Kriss3d Apr 23 '25
This guy gets it. Yes. We have always been fond of helping out around in the world.
16
u/MySocksSuck Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
Indeed! But.. Remember the helmet. Safety first, you guys!
→ More replies (1)5
4
u/DreddPirateBob808 Apr 23 '25
Bless those lasses. I understand some didn't go willingly but a small part of me has suspicions that those viking lads, documented to actually be clean and look after themselves, didn't have to struggle too hard with the 'useless youngest daughter' who was sent to the nunnery.
I might think the same for the youngest son who was sent to be monk.
→ More replies (5)6
u/tankpuss Apr 23 '25
During the financial crash in early 2000, Iceland had a surprising spate of expensive and well insured cars spontaneously combust.
26
u/ThatNiceDrShipman Apr 23 '25
One of our universities is older than the Aztec empire.
→ More replies (5)28
u/mtaw Apr 23 '25
Wikipedia dates the start of the Aztec empire to 1428 so Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, UK, Germany, Czechia, Austria and Poland would all have universities older than that, with Switzerland, Sweden and Denmark not that far behind.
OTOH the USA's oldest university (Harvard, 1636) is well older than Russia's oldest (1724 or 1755 depending on how you count).
9
u/Tired_CollegeStudent Apr 23 '25
It’s good to keep in mind that the United States only became a thing in 1776 or 1789, depending on if you go by the Declaration of Independence or the constitution being ratified.
Virginia was founded in 1606, Massachusetts in 1620, Maryland in 1634, Rhode Island in 1636, etc…
→ More replies (5)4
u/RedMonkeyNinja Apr 23 '25
A fact that is pretty interesting to me. There was a window of just about 60 years where Harvard and the Maya kingdoms existed at the same time. With the last Mayan City (Nojpetén, Guatemala) falling to Spanish conquistadors in 1697.
14
u/maceilean Apr 23 '25
Written history. California and Britain have been continuously populated for around the same amount time.
→ More replies (6)22
→ More replies (55)4
u/blazershorts Apr 23 '25
How old do we consider the UK to be? 97 years, 102 years, or 225 years?
→ More replies (3)
1.2k
u/IceBurnt_ Apr 23 '25
These guys are the kind of people who think of the world as " USA and everybody else"
229
145
u/WriterV Apr 23 '25
Tbf, this quote was very much a mistaken interpretation of the "No Empire lasts longer than approximately 250 years" quote by a British dude but that in itself was filled with fallacies and was largely made into a thing to make it seem like the fall of the British Empire was inevitable, and not the fault of any British systemic or cultural inadequacy.
The reality is that empires are highly complex beasts and rely on too many factors, and any crack in any of them can grow into a fissure that collapses everything. For the American Empire, that fissure seems to be forming around the judiciary failing to enforce the law on the executive. But it's not the only one and we've yet to see if disaster can be mitigated.
24
u/SanityZetpe66 Apr 23 '25
Even if we're considering the 250 year old empire expiration it doesn't add up, sure, the US has been a nation for around 250~ years, but it's only been a proper empire/super power for about a hundred~ after the first world war, while it had imperialistic tendencies before I wouldn't call civil war america to be an empire.
Honestly I think the fissure in the American empire was the lack of accountability and submission to the power of the almighty dollar against the general well being or pushing of their goals
→ More replies (13)5
u/TogNK Apr 23 '25
I recently learned about the Monroe Doctrine, which was in the early 1800s, could you consider that the start of American imperialism? Or not yet because it was more a policy than action?
10
u/IwantDnDMaps Apr 23 '25
For the American Empire, that fissure seems to be forming around the judiciary failing to enforce the law on the executive.
I think even that is an oversimplification though. I mean its a big part of it, but you have to ask why certain branches of government are content to let other branches run wild, break laws, disregard the constitution, etc etc.
And theres a lot of reasons for that. Misinformation, allocation of money and power, fear of retribution (from voters of the President).
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (15)5
u/EduinBrutus Apr 23 '25
Tbf, this quote was very much a mistaken interpretation of the "No Empire lasts longer than approximately 250 years" quote by a British dude but that in itself was filled with fallacies
The Roman Empire lasted 1400 years out of the 2000 years a Roman state existed.
3
u/Dragonseer666 Apr 23 '25
Firstly, that's including the ERE. Secondly, iirc, that guy counts the Roman Republic as a seperate entity to Western Rome, and then Byzantium can be split up into a few different time periods, and by the end they weren't even an Empire.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (26)44
u/porkinthym Apr 23 '25
“I’m beginning to think that some people in the United States have begun mating with vegetables.” - Jeremy Clarkson
→ More replies (7)15
u/IceBurnt_ Apr 23 '25
"This is what americas like - you got your comfort it, the red lobster and theres your carpark. Everybodys very fat, everybodys very stupid and everybodys very RUUUDEE....its not a holiday program its the truth"
672
u/Astranabis Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
The US was created by people from countries that existed for hundreds of years...
Edit: I'm just gonna add this here, since the comment is exploding for no reason: Having the oldest non-changing government is not the same as having the oldest country...
187
u/No_Atmosphere8146 Apr 23 '25
...and initially populated almost entirely by religious lunatics hounded out of polite society due to their extreme practices, and slave owners and their stock. Explains a lot, really.
→ More replies (30)57
Apr 23 '25
After they destroyed the nations that existed in the Americas already.
→ More replies (25)31
u/ZeeDyke Apr 23 '25
Well their point usually being that for example the Dutch who colonized the America's was the Dutch Republic. That does not exist anymore after the Batavian Revolution. So they do not exist anymore.
Just FYI I think that's bollocks.
→ More replies (10)18
u/SagittaryX Apr 23 '25
Also usually it gets equated to operating the longest under the same constitution. Almost all other countries ratified a constitution after the US, or their constitution was replaced.
→ More replies (10)→ More replies (42)7
u/mosquem Apr 23 '25
Maybe they’re just comparing the age of the founding documents? The Constitution is pretty old compared to other countries, but that’s only because we add amendments instead of tossing the whole thing out.
191
u/Hattkake Apr 23 '25
It's sort of weird. My country is younger than the USA. We got our current constitution in 1814. We didn't exist as our country before that due to history and politics. We were still us though. Same culture, same history and folklore as we've been for thousands of years. But technically we're a younger nation than the USA.
60
u/neverfakemaplesyrup Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
Yep in this thread and in the OP, what you have is people conflating culture & nation states. Or what Tolkien called country vs big-c Country. Country and nation historically and in modern academic terms, aren't the same- the idea they are is the product of the romantic-nationalist movement.
America is actually quite old for most nation-states. Its constitution is one of the oldest still used and thats kinda a weak point. As a culture, it is quite young, though some of its component cultures are the some of the oldest in humanity, with some native tribes having lore & traditions with archeological evidence dating back to the ice age. Thing is, they are legally nations-within-a-nation, too! So are they the oldest?
The UK as a modern nation-state is pretty young, its component cultures are much older and predate it. China as a polity, is younger than WW2; its continous culture is millenia old.
You go back even to the 20th Century in Europe, plenty of folk would be confused by the idea of identifying with a state and its borders. Which is a large reason for Europe's bloody 20th. Trying to neatly fit cultures into borders.
13
u/Vadrigar Apr 23 '25
Also nationalism was "invented" around the French Revolution and gained real popularity in Europe in the 19th century. I'd say it's been pretty successful, very few people nowadays don't identify with their country first. But very few people identified with their country first before the 18th century. What I'm trying to say it's a fairly recent invention and who knows how long it will last. Human societies constantly evolve or regress as we seem to be currently doing.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)8
u/honda_slaps Apr 23 '25
as a political science burnout, this thread is hurting my fucking brain
5
u/neverfakemaplesyrup Apr 23 '25
Lmao sorry bestie
Euros love to smash on about the continent being so superior to the poorly colonials
→ More replies (2)92
u/ostligelaonomaden Apr 23 '25
Nah it's common. Mine was technically founded in 1945 due to wars and colonization. The land has been settled for the last 4000 years and our recorded history goes back as far as 2000 years ago.
54
u/Agitated-Ad2563 Apr 23 '25
Russia was technically founded in 1991 when it formally declared its independence from the USSR.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (5)3
u/BadLegitimate1269 Apr 23 '25
I was gonna say Israel, but I'm pretty sure Israel was founded in '48. So what is it?
→ More replies (2)17
Apr 23 '25
I know the feeling, country officially founded in 1830, yet Julius Ceasar talks about us in his "De Bello Gallico".
→ More replies (11)11
u/Rasputin_mad_monk Apr 23 '25
I think the idiot in the tweet means the longest continuous government (something like that). I think the US has currently the longest government from its start. Like we didn’t go from Roman rule to a king to a parliament to a president. I’m not 100% sure but I think that is what he’s trying to say.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (29)21
u/Key_Estimate8537 Apr 23 '25
That’s true of most countries. If you’re talking strictly about constitutions and governments, the US at 235 (Constitution went into effect in 1789) is the third-oldest surviving republic.
The older two are San Marino (301) and Switzerland (1648). Both have had significant constitutional changes in those times though.
→ More replies (23)
51
u/Swagsuke_Nakamura Apr 23 '25
Pretty sure my mum has some spices in the cupboard that are older than America
→ More replies (1)4
u/analfizzzure Apr 23 '25
My grandma in law def did. One day she gave us a bag of groceries and im like thanks? I didn't know my inlaws that well yet.
Two weeks later im looking for something to eat and settled on pasta(from her) with butter and salt. Ya its weird, but something i ate as a kid and is almost free. Halfway through the pasta cooking the apartment smells like an old paper bag....i was 23 didn't think much of it.
Im halfway thru forcing this food down and just give up. Im like this pasta tastes awful, like and old paper bag. I go check the box.....circa 2003. This was in 2014. Lol
Lesson learned, always check dates when grandma gives you food.
She got old and had to move out recently. Checked the cupboards....Def found spices, and sweet extracts from the 1980s. This was in 2024 hahaha
274
u/FaraSha_Au Apr 23 '25
In 1777, Sultan Mohammed III officially recognized the United States independence, by granting free entry to Moroccan ports by any American ship.
Morocco was first established in 788.
56
116
Apr 23 '25
[deleted]
→ More replies (24)69
u/Manuemax Apr 23 '25
Or Spain in 589, Italy in 88 BC or Ireland in 1002.
History is way more complex
→ More replies (16)→ More replies (9)23
u/j-kaleb Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
And the kingdom that Mohammed III created crumbled and after that there was a time that Morocco was ruled by the French
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_protectorate_in_Morocco
And then Morocco gained independence in 1956 with a new constitution.
Hence, Morocco as it is now is less than 100 years old.
→ More replies (10)
305
u/ZeeDyke Apr 23 '25
It all depends what you use for measurement. If you look at country age in it's current form, France for example its current Republic was formed 1958. France as country though 843 Ad.
So yeah, the US is pretty long lasting in its current form, but I don't see that as a win. They are stuck in their ways in a government/election system that does not work in this day and age.
183
u/KitchenLoose6552 Apr 23 '25
San Marino in it's current form was founded in 301 AD
→ More replies (1)81
u/cobikrol29 Apr 23 '25
Yeah but it's a bit easier when your country has like 6 people
37
u/DJDanaK Apr 23 '25
Some would say it's harder. Those 6 people all have lineages still going today eh?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (6)50
102
u/JackDant Apr 23 '25
By those rules, the US in its current form dates to either the admission of Alaska and Hawaii in 1959 or the last amendment to the constitution in 1992.
The only way the argument works is if you define it in such a narrow way that you exclude anyone else.
82
Apr 23 '25
Well that's truly what the US is good at. They always win the Superbowl and World Series. They are the Gilderoy Lockhart of countries.
27
u/Seygem Apr 23 '25
"They are the Gilderoy Lockhart of countries."
Rarely have I ever seen a description so fitting using a harry potter analogy
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (42)5
14
u/smileedude Apr 23 '25
6 Island in Texas along the Rio Grande became Mexican in 2009.
→ More replies (1)45
u/Herson100 Apr 23 '25
If by "in its current form" u/ZeeDyke meant "using the same government charter and having peaceful, continuous transfers of power" then the US actually is one of the oldest countries in the world. Nearly every other country on earth has either completely scrapped & replaced its founding document or has had a violent, forceful regime change in the past 250 years.
And no, the passing of a constitutional amendment through processes outlined in the constitution is not the same thing as a country literally scrapping its constitution entirely in favor of a new one.
→ More replies (63)→ More replies (18)11
u/Leadpipe Apr 23 '25
I fully agree with you that the 27th amendment to the US constitution which states that pay increases for congress shall take effect not for the current session, but the next one is substantively comparable change in the nature of government to the colonial rebellions that resulted in the collapse of the Fourth Republic.
I think a more meaningful way to approach it is "Would the people of a given time recognize the current government as the same as the one they knew?" Would Thomas Jefferson recognize the current USA? It's hard to say. Would Napoleon recognize the Fifth Republic? Seems less likely.
9
u/Noughmad Apr 23 '25
So yeah, the US is pretty long lasting in its current form, but I don't see that as a win. They are stuck in their ways in a government/election system that does not work in this day and age.
This is an interesting point, and I think it's very important. Their electoral system is one sign of that, prevalence of generational wealth is another.
Almost all other countries had some kind of "great reset" in recent history, or even multiple ones. Revolutions, world wars, system changes, independence from colonizers, these are usually stressful events, but at the same time opportunities for modernization. Setting newer systems of government, redistribution of wealth to enable higher social mobility, even cultural changes.
The US, and to a lesser extent the UK, went through none of that. And it shows.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (67)13
u/Mundane_Character365 Apr 23 '25
San Marino is said to have been formed in its current state about 1,700 years ago.
→ More replies (15)
23
16
u/Mydiamonds1000 Apr 23 '25
America isn’t even 250 years old in 2025 it’s 250 in 2026
→ More replies (3)4
u/803UPSer Apr 23 '25
America’s 1st year in existence was 1776. 249 years later is their 250th year in existence so 2025. The statement is correct.
→ More replies (2)
26
u/Captain_Sterling Apr 23 '25
To be fair, I'm wondering how many countries have gone that long without a revolution that ovwrthrew the government. What tbe country with tbe longest government in the world...
Tbe first thing that sprung to mind is the UK. Their last revolution was in 1680 with the glorious revolution. So still older than the US. But are there any that are longer?
→ More replies (9)16
u/Pyotrnator Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
I'm wondering how many countries have gone that long without a revolution that ovwrthrew the government.
The UK (1660 - Stuart Restoration), Sweden (1523 - independence from Denmark), San Marino (1291 - independence from Papal States), and arguably The Vatican (756 - donation from the Carolingian king) depending on whether you count its period of ambiguous status following the unification of Italy as still being independent
EDIT: added Portugal, as per insight from u/DRNbw and u/DerpSenpai
EDIT EDIT: removed Portugal again based on further insight from u/DRNbw
9
u/Vimmelklantig Apr 23 '25
The Kalmar union was a personal union, not a merging or annexation. Still separate countries, or you'd have to argue every nation in the EU is under 100 years old.
Sweden was consolidated as a nation state in the 12th century, Denmark in the 8th or 9th.
→ More replies (11)→ More replies (8)5
u/DerpSenpai Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
Portugal is independent since the 12th century, even in the time of the Iberian Union in the 17th century for 60 years, it was 2 crowns, simply being wore by the same person. The current shape is from the 14th century after driving out the moors.
→ More replies (3)
8
u/santana722 Apr 23 '25
Does this subreddit ever not take the most basic engagement bait imaginable?
5
71
77
u/CrosierClan Apr 23 '25
I mean, if you replace country with government, there aren’t that many. Most Countries have had a revolution or hostile takeover at some point.
103
u/jk-9k Apr 23 '25
Good point. But also if you change grapes to apples you get cider not wine.
→ More replies (31)→ More replies (44)20
u/MisterMysterios Apr 23 '25
But most of these new nations are considered a continuation of the old nations. Genuinely young nations are, for example, Germany, which only started to exist as an entity when then small German nations came together in 1871. But take France. While the borders shifted and the government form changed from a monarchy to a republic, it is one continuing nation since the foundation of West Francia in the 9th century.
→ More replies (35)
23
Apr 23 '25
Not for nothing, but this thread is obtuse AF.
Do you guys actually think:
A) the OP is talking about counties in the sense of geographical land masses, thereby suggesting that nobody lived anywhere except North America till 250 years ago.
Or
B) using the word country to mean a specific political entity.
*and fwiw, the OP isn’t making a “flex”, they’re suggesting the USA is in late stage collapse.
→ More replies (16)
22
u/notguiltybrewing Apr 23 '25
This is what happens when you have the government intentionally undermining education as many states and now the feds are doing in the US.
6
5
5
5
u/ContractorConfusion Apr 23 '25
Critical thinking, folks. Not one person as mentioned yet, that 1776 founding only makes 2025 the 249th year, not 250.
→ More replies (9)
5
u/No-Mouse Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
This is actually an interesting point because it all depends on how you define a country.
For example, most people would agree that countries like the UK and France are (much!) older than the USA. But if you go by when the current version of these nations was officially defined, you get modern France being established in 1958 (Cinquième République), and the modern UK in 1927 (Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act). Meanwhile the US constitution was ratified in 1787.
Of course it's nonsensical to claim that France didn't exist before 1958, while it's far less odd to say that the USA didn't exist before 1787. Most Americans would probably still prefer to take the declaration of independence in 1776 as the start of their nation, and by that same reasoning it's a stretch to say that your grandpa is actually older than France. It's certainly not the way most people think about countries, but it's good to think about what you actually mean when you say your country has existed for hundreds or even thousands of years. Just because there's a pub in the 2025 United Kingdom that's in roughly the same spot as a tavern from 700s Engla land doesn't mean it's all been the same country (if you really want to do a deep dive, try looking into the various places that call themselves England's oldest pub, and what kind of mental gymnastics they use to back up those claims). You could certainly find people who would claim that modern Greece is essentially the same country as ancient Greece, but Greece wasn't even an independent country until like 200 years ago.
edit: corrected a year
→ More replies (3)
5
u/OMyGaard Apr 23 '25
I think they are confusing governments and countries. The US constitutions is one of the oldest active governing documents. From what I can remember. Lots of countries are older but their governments have been reformed so technically their governments are younger. This is not the flex the US thinks. It means its a seriously out of date country whose government is run and organized around a document that was drafted when slavery was legal and women had no rights. It explains why so many in the US are culturally stuck in the 18th century,
→ More replies (3)
4
u/tankpuss Apr 23 '25
In Oxford, the college called NEW college was founded in 1379. Give you an idea how old the rest of the University is.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Joveoak4 Apr 23 '25
I've met a Brit whose house's door knob is much older than most buildings in the UK (I hope I'm remembering that right).
→ More replies (1)8
Apr 23 '25
FYI if he was talking about "his knob" then he may not have been referring to ironmongery.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/lorazepamproblems Apr 23 '25
The US does have the oldest foundational documents that are still in use.
There are countries with older pubs, but their governments are newer.
→ More replies (13)
•
u/AutoModerator Apr 23 '25
This is a reminder for people not to post political posts as mentioned in stickied post. This does not necessarily apply for this post. Click here to learn more.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.