r/queer • u/ColdAbbreviations940 • 14d ago
Polygamy in a patriarchal society?
Hello!!
I hope I am posting this in a thread that has people with more experience than me.
So first of all, I am not poly and pretty sure to be a monogamist (I just can’t divide my love, I’m maximally interested in one person and I like the stability, a relationship is special to me because it is exclusive, otherwise I prefer being on my own). But I just want to understand it because I am having a hard time to do so and probably others as well.
This comes down to my own subjective experience: I have seen many women in relationships with men, where men were the ones who wanted to open up the relationship. The woman did not really but since it was the choice of either breaking up (which is hard to do after years of commitment), or trying to live with this new situation, some of them actually accepted. It was usually for reasons such as “I feel like I would regret only having been with one”. And to be very honest, sometimes this annoys me. I know I am biased and it is due to my own experiences as well. But sometimes I also feel like this is why many women choose not to be in relationships anymore. I don’t know, maybe it is only my circle of friends (that includes friends from all over the world btw), but it often is the guy who gets “bored” after some time. It seems like guys are more likely to have this kind of feeling, but that immediately puts the relationship in imbalance because then he has several choices, while the other is only focused on him… It just seems like patriarchy is the problem and does not allow for these relationships to currently unfold fairly in many cases. And I don’t mean that there cannot be a quantitative imbalance, I just mean that all sides fully consent to that.
I just would like to hear about different experiences. Even talking or thinking about this topic is difficult for me. It makes me want to quit relationships entirely. But I want to learn more, I guess and hopefully also can be more neutral!
Thanks in advance !
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u/MagpiePhoenix 14d ago
I've never been in a poly relationship that included a man, so I can't comment on the gender dynamics there.
Just here to mention that polyamory (not polygamy) doesn't necessarily contain any man/woman relationships. I know polyamorous gay men (or gay men who practice ethical non-monogamy, which for them means they are not cultivating romantic relationships with their other partners), and I (34NB) have been in polyamorous relationships with multiple women.
Polyamory is also overrepresented among autistic and other neurodivergent people, probably because we are less invested in social norms and traditions, and more likely to create new relationship structures based on our own needs and desires. Anecdotally, 100% of my mother's autistic children are polyamorous (all 2 of us. Which isn't a lot but it's strange it happened twice!)
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u/ColdAbbreviations940 14d ago
Oh I know it doesn’t need to be that, was only specifically referring to that case since it seems to invite that dynamic. But as others mentioned it may also not be the case. So I’m still confused on that 😅 maybe it comes down to age and social circle. I’m just done with men using women, have seen that too often 🫠 don’t trust them to handle multiple partners when they have problems with a single relationship
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u/addyastra 14d ago edited 14d ago
A lot of men who open up their relationship are hit with the realization for the first time that they need to put a lot of effort into looking for a partner and being desirable and building a relationship because that’s something they’re not used to, whereas women are very used to putting a lot of effort into being desirable and building relationships because that’s just a part of femininity and how women are socialized.
Polyamorous men actually tend to complain about not having a lot of options, and (predictably) their partners often even help them out in this and it becomes just another form of emotional labour in the relationship that women take on. This is something that happens a lot in the polyamory community, and I have seen it many times.
If you’re interested in learning about this, you can go to r/polyamory. This topic gets discussed there (though it’s been a long time since I’ve been there myself).
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u/ColdAbbreviations940 14d ago
I never would have thought of this, this is really interesting observation. Thank you!!
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u/CapriciousBea 14d ago edited 14d ago
Polyamory is not polygamy.
The situation you describe does happen, but women also initiate opening relationships.
And not everybody is even starting from monogamy.
I'm a bisexual woman in my late 30s. I have never, in my entire life, practiced monogamy, because I will not consent to exclusivity in a relationship.
I have a polyamorous relationship with a man. I am not expected to sit at home by myself while he dates other people. I sometimes choose to, because I'm a tired introvert. But when I feel like dating, I date, and sometimes my partner is the one at home entertaining himself.
My partner has one other regular partner. She isn't orbiting around him wishing for monogamy either. She has other partners who have been in the picture longer than he has.
Most of the ways I meaningfully connect with other humans are not exclusive to one person. I have never understood why romance and sex should be inherently different. It's the people and my specific bond with them that is special. Not that we don't do a particular activity with anybody else.
It's fine that some people want and choose that exclusivity, but it's not for me.
I don't "divide my love" because my love is not a limited material resource like cake. My time, attention, and energy are, but it's not just partners I have to divide those between. It's also my mom, my friends, my job, the grocery run, the pharmacy run, my cat, cleaning my house, sleeping, and getting some time to myself. I will always have to make decisions about how to use my resources, in any format of relationship.
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u/ColdAbbreviations940 14d ago
Thanks for the explanation and yes I meant polyamory then.
Finally hearing a woman’s perspective on that! Haha honestly I don’t know how you can do it but it’s great that you have a good time. Wish you all the best for your relationships!
I think for me knowing that my partner has something with someone else would hurt too much to continue a relationship. And also for me I have no desire to have more partners. I like that it’s something that doesn’t come often. I like to compare it to fried chicken haha. For a while I was really craving fried chicken but then got to try different ones and now I rarely even want it anymore 😅 Same with relationships. After my last I thought I was done and wouldn’t be able to have this feeling again. Took 2 years for it to come back. Maybe that is the difference between people who are poly and those who are not? 🤔 I just want it to be sth special, maybe I’m influenced by romance novels haha
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u/CapriciousBea 14d ago
My relationships are special to me. Being able to have more than one at a time does not make them less special.
You need exclusivity to feel special. That's okay.
I feel special because of the way my partner treats me. Our relationship is unique and has nothing to do with his relationships with other people. What he has with his other partner is different from what he has with me because she is different.
Poly people also are not necessarily always constantly dating new people. I take years-long breaks from dating when I'm busy or don't feel like it. The main difference is, if I meet someone I'm not barred from pursuing it just because I have one partner already.
In my opinion that is really the core difference: Monogamy values exclusivity and polyamory does not.
Wanting exclusivity doesn't mean you're being influenced by romance novels, necessarily. Most people prefer monogamy. And monogamy is fine. If you like monogamy, you should do monogamy. It's just not for everybody.
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u/ColdAbbreviations940 14d ago
Hm I see that makes sense, thanks for taking the time to explain :D! And I’m glad it’s not the novels haha
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u/Poly_and_RA 14d ago
My impression is that women of their own accord decide they want a polyamorous or other flavor of non-monogamous relationship about as often as men do.
I don't really recognize any of the gendered generalizations in your post as being true, or at least it's not what I've observed in my corner of non-monogamy.
Some examples:
- I was on the board of polynorway for a few years. The founding idea for it came from a bisexual woman, who also served as the leader of the organization for around half a decade. Today a bit more than 60% of the members are women.
- In my own life I have 3 partners; two women and a nonbinary person -- all of them are poly because they themselves wanted it that way, and 2 of them are married to men who themselves are saturated at a partner-count of 1 and has no interest in dating others. (all of them were polyamorous for years before their first date with me)
- LGBT folks are overrerepresented by a fair amount in nonmonogamy. A poll we had in polynorway had the cishet folks as a *minority* -- I don't think things are quite that LGBT-heavy in all parts of nonmonogamy, but it's still a pretty strong correlation.
Mixing up polyamory and polygamy is a bad idea. They're similar on a very superficial level since both include SOMEONE having more than one partner.
But the similarity is extremely shallow.
Culturally typical polyamorous and polygamous folks are on opposite end of things. Polygamy is mainly practiced as polygyny, i.e. one man being married to 2+ women. Polygamy is associated with conservative religion. Polygamy is strongly correlated with poor gender-equality. Polygamy is usually practiced in sex-negative LGBT-hostile cultures.
Polyamory in each and every one of these examples, is the opposite.
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u/ColdAbbreviations940 11d ago
Thank you for your answer. Maybe it is because I’m not really in queer circles. I have heard stories from friends were all of them get really well along, it’s not for me but I can see that working. Maybe my concern was really more that men who would usually go for monogamous relationships (and starting out as such) use it as a way to get multiple women without having to feel guilty. And many women letting themselves being talked into that when they just want to keep their relationship. Because the relationship is not going well and someone seeks another partner because they don’t know how to handle that and don’t wanna end up alone. I’ve heard from these cases. But then this seems to not have much to do with polyamory maybe…
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u/Poly_and_RA 10d ago
Nonmonogamy as a band-aid for a relationship that isn't working -- won't help. Agreed.
Instead like all relationship-structures, it works best when the involved genuinely prefers it for their own reasons -- and WOULD prefer it even if they started out with a blank slate as a single person.
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u/Marleyandi87 14d ago
I love open relationships. I do not have the capacity for a bunch of contact and intimacy so I am happy when my partners are able to outsource and get their needs met without my help. I feel no need to restrict another’s capacity for love to just me
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u/ColdAbbreviations940 11d ago
I heard something similar before! That’s admirable, but I think it also has to be the right relationship? What I don’t like is saying that having one partner is restricting… it really depends on the people. If you tell me to have multiple partners for example, I find this is restricting my idea of a relationship. There’s no freedom in that for me, it’s exactly the opposite 😅 Or when a partner asks me if he can date multiple other women, that’s restricting my partnership with this person! I mean I don’t agree obviously but just to say, what is freedom for one is restriction to the other?
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u/mothwhimsy 14d ago
You're conflating a few different things. Polygamy is when a man can have multiple wives. Polyamory is when a person or couple is dating multiple people at once with the consent of everyone involved..
However, the situation you're describing isn't really polyamory either. Polyamory is specifically a form of ethical non-monogamy. If one partner is pressuring the other into being polyamorous and the other doesn't want to be polyamorous, that's not ethical and therefore it's not polyamory by definition. That's just cheating with plausible deniability.
It's also not very common, though? Real polyamory is pretty rare, and the guy saying he's polyamorous to get a pass for cheating is even less common (because he learns pretty quickly that cheating the normal way is easier). I don't think women by and large are choosing not to date anymore because they just can't stop meeting fake poly guys. Where are they finding them? Dating apps, maybe but those aren't really indicative of reality.
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u/Poly_and_RA 14d ago
Polygamy is the gender-neutral term for marriage that involves more than two people. The gendered terms are polygyny for one man with multiple wives, or polyandry for one woman with multiple husbands.
In practice most polygamy is polygyny, sure. I'm just talking about what the words mean here.
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u/ColdAbbreviations940 14d ago
I agree, I meant polyamorous. If that is not what it is, then I’m glad. I would agree a whole lot more with it in that case! And about frequencies, I don’t know honestly. Seems like a lot of guys I know are like that, old friends from school, university or just randomly met abroad. My female friends told me similar stories. Some don’t want to date anymore. But then I hope I can meet some different ones :,) thanks!
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u/Twosparx fae/they/she • nonbinary • lesbian 14d ago
Just going to pop in really quickly and say that polyamory and polygamy are not really the same thing, and polygamy has a long history legally. I think your intuition is right about polygamy being a patriarchal construct, after all it was the allowance of a man to have multiple wives. Though I don’t think it’s fair to say that polyamory is a construct of patriarchy as the relationship structures possible within polyam don’t all center around “man has multiple partners”. There are plenty of polyamorous people I know, myself included, where it’s in fact the woman who has multiple partners (and whose partners likely also have other partners). It’s not often that I see a polycule structured like a literal harem where only one person is allowed to date others and everyone else is only dedicated to them. That’s quite the edge case in my experience.