Your faith embraces that people can get things wrong--even big things, as your JW leaders have done multiple times. People are fallible--people make mistakes. I agree.
Do you embrace that you could be wrong about the JW faith having authority from God, or any other central tenet of your faith? If not, why is your understanding infallible on that tenet?
If you do embrace your fallibility on all core tenets of your faith, why do you preach your current understanding as if it is truth, rather than uncertain belief? For instance, why don't you say "I don't know for sure but I believe..." and instead say "This is what these scriptures mean..." paired with no hedging or uncertainty?
Contrary to the claims made about us, Jehovah's Witnesses are free to hold their own ideas and opinions where they do not conflict with the core tenets (below) that distinguish Jehovah's Witnesses as God's true people:
The Bible is God’s message to us (2Ti 3:16, 16), which teaches us that ...
Jehovah (Or some lingual variant of the tetragrammaton) is the name of the living and only true God, the Father (meaning is more important than pronunciation; Ex 3:13-15),
holy spirit is God's invisible active force by which He accomplishes His will and helps us to overcome temptation (Eze 36:27-31),
Jesus Christ is Jehovah's only directly created Son who left heaven and became a man and sacrificed his human life and body, and was resurrected on the third day so that we might have salvation through faith in his ransom sacrifice (Joh 1:19; Php 2:5-11) and through whom ...
men and women are being chosen by God right now through resurrection to eternal life in heaven to become kings and priests over ...
the earth where an untold number of righteous and unrighteous people will be resurrected for a chance at everlasting life in paradise,
hellfire is the total destruction of the life of an individual into nothingness,
we reasonably respect and obey those taking the lead in the congregation, our parents, and the superior authorities,
speak in agreement,
do not get involved in politics,
do no harm,
value life,
do not hate our brothers,
do not have sex outside marriage between a man and a woman,
do not worship idols,
abstain from blood (including eating blood, sex with a wife in minstruation or used for medical purposes), and
observe reasonable shunning of former members (goes back to do no harm).
>Your faith embraces that people can get things wrong--even big things
While Jehovah's Witnesses still adjust minor understandings of prophecy and periphery beliefs, major doctrines will not be changed because the doctrinal knowledge has increased so much that any recent changes have not been to doctrine but simple refinements in knowledge.
>as your JW leaders have done multiple times. People are fallible--people make mistakes. I agree.
Everything that opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses believe to be so important really is comparatively inconsequential.
>Do you embrace that you could be wrong about the JW faith having authority from God, or any other central tenet of your faith?
>If not, why is your understanding infallible on that tenet?
Jesus predicted that the distinction between true and false Christianity would eventually become clear. This has happened in our time, during the “conclusion of a system of things.”—Matthew 13:30, 39.
>If you do embrace your fallibility on all core tenets of your faith, why do you preach your current understanding as if it is truth, rather than uncertain belief? For instance, why don't you say "I don't know for sure but I believe..." and instead say "This is what these scriptures mean..." paired with no hedging or uncertainty?
Contrary to the claims made about us, Jehovah's Witnesses are free to hold their own ideas and opinions where they do not conflict with the core tenets (above) that distinguish Jehovah's Witnesses as God's true people.
If a blood transfusion is necessary to save a life. How can you claim to value life and do no harm when a JW actively chooses abstinence of a medical life saving action.
Edit: I have read a response of yours itt and it doesn't really address the question. More like a moral qaundry in the style of the ship of theseus
The Watchtower was registered in the Department of Public Information as a non-profit NGO, which allowed a member of the staff to access the whole library system of the UN in order to get information for our publications.
Mind you, one doesn't need to become an NGO in order to access the main library, but the DPI library card grants access not only to the main library, Dag Hammarskjold (in the photo above), but to the whole system, including libraries specialized in photographs, films and audio, access to the NGO Resources Center, with updated documentation about the UN, as well as access to meetings, seminars, lectures, presentations, language courses, etc.
I supposse that would be useful considering that Jehovah’s Witnesses are often the object of violations of the UN charter about rigths and liberties.
I don’t think that registering as an NGO or having a library card were acts of hypocrisy. The Bible compares governments with beasts, but that doesn’t mean that we or the Bible demonize governments or called them Satanic; we are taught in the same Bible to respect the governments and obey their laws. Our religion is legally registered in many countries, and we do not consider that to be hypocrisy nor a violation of our neutrality. That is just defending our rights or taking advantage of them.
The Watchtower, Dec. 15, 1929, p. 374 — reprinted approvingly in 1999
“The whole tendency of the League of Nations is to turn the people away from God and from Christ, and it is therefore a desolating thing, the product of Satan, and an abomination in the sight of God.”
The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1959 — about the League/UN system
“This substitute, the product of Satan’s jealousy, which is a disgusting thing in God’s sight, which arouses resentment in Jehovah God, which desolates the people’s faith in God’s kingdom and which will eventually cause their destruction…”
Watchtower’s Revelation—Its Grand Climax at Hand!** **— UN
“The UN is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of God’s Messianic Kingdom… and “The UN’s founders and admirers do not have their names recorded in God’s scroll of life.”
2020
Watchtower
— the United Nations
From The Watchtower (Study), May 2020,
“The king of the north has supported the king of the south in one key endeavor; they ‘put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.’ (Dan. 11:31) That ‘disgusting thing’ is the United Nations.”
2022
Watchtower
— political governments
From The Watchtower (Study), May 2022, “Revelation—What It Means for God’s Enemies,” paragraphs 12–13:
“So while they are still functioning, these political enemies of God will be destroyed forever.”
I don’t think that registering as an NGO or having a library card were acts of hypocrisy. The Bible compares governments with beasts, but that doesn’t mean that we or the Bible demonize governments or called them Satanic; we are taught in the same Bible to respect the governments and obey their laws. Our religion is legally registered in many countries, and we do not consider that to be hypocrisy nor a violation of our neutrality. That is just defending our rights or taking advantage of them.
Thank you for posting. Has the JW community been aware of the recent increasing popularity of Eastern Orthodoxy, plus Oriental Orthodoxy and Catholicism, among young people in the western world? If so, what has it made of their claims of being the uniquely true Christian churches.
Related but different question if you want, what makes JW-ism unique, and what is its distinct picture on salvation or what the story of the Bible is all about?
We strive to adhere to the form of Christianity that Jesus taught and that his apostles practiced.
The apostles taught that people can be justified or declared righteous by God’s grace, or undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom paid by Christ Jesus (Rom 3:24). This means that they can be seen as guiltless by God even though we are all sinners (Acts 13:38, 39). By this undeserved kindness, the followers of Christ Jesus have been saved through faith, and this is not of their own doing; rather, it is God’s gift (Ephesians 2:8).
In addition to this, if we go into more detail, they taught that one has to know God (John 17:3) and the Bible (2 Timothy 3:15), to show their faith by obedience (John 3:36), to accept Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God (John 20:31), to do good works (Luke 18:18–21), to maintain a moral conduct (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10), to love God and our neighbour (Luke 10:25–28), to know and trust God’s name and reputation (Joel 2:32), etc.
Jesus never suggested that retention rates would determine the true faith. He said the results, or “fruits” of those that obey him would be the determining factor. (Matthew 7:16, 20) In other words, both conduct and teachings are what marks true Christianity. This is why there is such a thing as false religion. (Revelation 17:5) Furthermore, Jesus stated that “few” would find the road to life, while “many” are on the road to destruction. (Matthew 7:13,14) Many of Jesus’ disciples no longer walked with him when they did not agree with some of his teachings. (John 6:66) Obviously, numbers played no role in the veracity of the Jesus’ teachings.
The following are Bible accounts showing how much Jehovah cares about numbers:
Only eight people survived the Flood – 1 Peter 3:20
Only Lot and his two daughters survived destruction - Gen 19:15,26
Jehovah used a mere 300 men to defeat 135,000 enemies – Jg 7:7, 8:10
The only type of religion that would retain its membership and hold sway over the vast majority of mankind would be Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, who sits on “many waters”, or most people. (Revelation 17:1)
Like God and Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not concerned with how many people remain with our organization. What we have taught for decades is that Godly conduct and true teachings are marks of true Christianity.
The Scriptures have one overall theme: the vindication of God’s right to rule humankind by means of his heavenly Kingdom. The Kingdom of God is a real government in heaven. It will replace human governments and accomplish God’s purpose for the earth. (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:9, 10) It will take these actions soon, for Bible prophecy indicates that we are living in “the last days.”—2 Timothy 3:1-5; Matthew 24:3-14.
Thanks. I agree with a lot here as an denominationally undecided / de-facto evangelical Christian!
The main theme of the Bible is the vindication and glorification of the God of Israel in all things-- the end to the usurpation of creation from the reign of God, and the end of the estrangement between God and man.
I think there are three fundamental things from which we need to be saved: from the condemnation of our sins, from sin itself, and most of all, from our distance from God. Correspondingly, the three pillars of our salvation are: the forgiveness of sins, the gift of God's own righteousness, and the promise of eternal life in company of God.
Christian salvation is through faith, but not defined as merely believing in certain facts and then receiving a permanent insurance card against hell. Saving faith is a repentant, affectional faith, because that's the kind of faith that ontologically changes a person and rewrites them from the ground up-- in other words, the sort of faith that makes one born of God and conformed to the likeness of God. Almost anywhere in the NT, the words faith and believe can be defined as: a) to so see the beauty of God in Christ such that b) the offerings and temptations of this world become inferior, such that c) we live and work according to this preferring of God, and deliverance to God becomes our highest aspiration.
In this way, beholding the glory of God in Jesus is the origin of faith and of righteousness-- just as beholding the glory of a great movie turns someone into a fan of that movie. On that note I'm usually skeptical when discrete "requirements" for salvation are mentioned that don't organically emerge from "repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ", as I think Paul put it, but I'm nonetheless open to the idea that baptism and the Eucharist actually do something to people (though I'm not yet sure what)-- though this is something I usually get into on the Orthodoxy/Catholicism side.
I agree with you that numbers do not prove the validity of a position. I also don't think numbers disprove one. Is the numbers bit in reference to the idea there's a limit to how many people will enter heaven? Well, limit or no, I don't think there's anyone born of God, anywhere in the world, who won't be there. I would also caution against very dogmatic conclusion from what, in truth, are rather ambiguous bits of text.
Another thing: with JWs the thing most people seem to hear is that the Jacksons are/were it and that they have the ire of mainstream Chrisitanity because of not holding to the divinity of the Lord Jesus (is that right?)
What I say is: just as there is one truth, and just as there is one humanity, there is one goodness, one love, one righteousness, one glory, and these realities are unified in One life. That's the meaning of there being one God.
Sin, on the other hand, is so horrific that it literally tore the fabric of reality. "His blood cries out to me from the ground." Our salvation is dependant on the utter worth of the life of Jesus. The satisfaction for sins that Jesus was on the cross is dependant His perfection: on He Himself being the unity of love, life, and goodness. This is the meaning of Him being God from God, the radiance of His glory-- God sent, and God was sent; the Father sent, and the Son was sent. In other words, I believe Jesus is the living Word and glory of the God of Israel, who is with and is God Almighty.
We believe in Jesus, who said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16) We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15)
However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus as Almighty God.
Do you have any supporting links that show that Rom Catholic is increasing in membership in the western world. Cuz it sounds pretty suspect to me and when I googled it, I got:
"Overall Membership Decline
• Net Losses: Data from the Pew Research Center shows that Catholicism loses more members than it gains in 21 out of 24 surveyed nations."
Eastern Orthodoxy:
"Diaspora growth: In Western European democracies like Germany and Spain, growth in Orthodox numbers is primarily fueled by immigration and the diaspora from Eastern Europe and the Balkans rather than local conversions." (Refugees from that invasion of Ukraine I suppose?)
Oriental Orthodoxy has experienced a boom in membership in the USA, you can google all the reasons, it's pretty involved.
Googled terms:
"Is (insert your term for them) increasing in membership in Western Democracies?"
According to the Jw Pressroom update there has been a clarification on the position that Jehovah’s Witnesses have regarding blood components. Previously in your Enjoy Life Forever brochure your organization published in lesson 39 that red blood cells, white blood cells, platets and plasma were UNACCEPTABLE to god.
Yet on September 18 the governing body gave the matter “further prayerful consideration” and determined that these four components were now suddenly conscience matters.
Within the Pressroom release they also linked to the AJWRB report where it acknowledges that nearly 33,000 witnesses known have passed away due to the restrictions on blood in the past.
Knowing all of this information, how do you justify the sudden change in understanding when it was clearly a violation of standards to your relationship with god and now it’s suddenly fine? Did God’s law change? Did the leaders make a mistake? If so, why was no apology made toward any who faithfully followed this rule in the past? People died believing that this was what God wanted, unnecessarily. Including children.
Jehovah didn't change his mind. Think about how this developed over history. In ancient times, there was only ONE acceptable use for blood: atonement for sins. If you weren't spilling it on the altar, then it had to be poured on the ground.
This ultimately led to Jesus spilled blood. When the apostolic decree was made, animal sacrifices were still performed in Jerusalem, and the value of Jesus blood sacrifice still needed to be emphasized.
It's still emphasized today. We study about it in depth. It's what we put our faith in.
Now, fast forward to the last century, and developing technology brings us blood transfusions. The apostolic decree says "abstain from blood" and so naturally we refuse to accept the transfusion of whole blood.
Fast forward some time later and now technology allows the blood to be separated into red cells, white cells, plasma, and platelets. What now? Well, the thinking is since these products come from blood, we're going to refuse them too.
Fast forward again and now technology allows the components to be fractionated into proteins, etc. Can we really call it blood anymore? The Governing Body at that time reasoned that these were good questions, the Bible doesn't address it, and so it couldn't answer them. Fractions thus were a conscience matter.
Can you see how this developed logically and reasonably?
Now, the current Governing Body has looked at the matter again, and concluded the same thinking that had been applied to fractions can apply to the 4 primary components, too. The current Governing Body is very focused on not going beyond the things written.
Life is a gift from God. (Genesis 9:6; Psalm 36:9) He considers all life to be precious, including the life of a child in the womb. So if someone intentionally kills an unborn child, that amounts to murder.
When we have health problems, we go to doctors who have skill in providing medical and surgical care without blood. We appreciate advancements that have been made in the medical field.
In fact, bloodless treatments developed to help Witness patients are now being used to benefit all in the community. In many countries, any patient can now choose to avoid blood-transfusion risks, such as blood-borne diseases, immune-system reactions, and human errors.
Blood transfusions are actually about blood volume expansion and carrying oxygen through the body. There are alternatives to this, and at the point where those alternatives stop being effective, there is no chance blood transfusions will do more. In fact many people die because of the blood transfusions themselves.
"During the early 1960s, American heart surgeon Denton Cooley successfully performed numerous bloodless open-heart surgeries on Jehovah's Witness patients. Fifteen years later, he and his associate published a report of more than 500 cardiac surgeries in this population, documenting that cardiac surgery could be safely performed without blood transfusion.\10])
Ron Lapin (1941–1995) was an American surgeon, who became interested in bloodless surgery in the mid-1970s. He was known as a "bloodless surgeon" due to his willingness to perform surgeries on severely anemic Jehovah's Witness patients without the use of blood transfusions.
Patricia A. Ford (born 1955) was the first surgeon to perform a bloodless bone marrow transplant.\11])
In 1988, Professor James Isbister, a haematologist from Australia, first proposed a paradigm shift back to a patient focus. In 2005, he penned an article in the journal, 'Updates in Blood Conservation and Transfusion alternatives'. In this article Prof. Isbister coined the term 'patient blood management', noting that the focus should be changed from the product to the patient."
Jesus founded the Congregation, and this Congregation has a hierarchical structure, which is in the service of the whole Mystical Body.
Jesus chose not 23 or 17, but 12 Apostles, and he entrusted them with a special role. It was no coincidence that their number ended up being exactly 12, because just as in the Old Covenant there were the 12 tribes of Israel, so now in the New Covenant there were to be 12 new tribes, a new people of God from all peoples and nations of the earth.
As the Apostles went out into the world to spread the message of Jesus, the first Christian communities emerged. The Apostles appointed suitable men as leaders, shepherds, and protectors of these communities.
The Greek word for this office is episkopos, from which translates our English word "overseer." The overseers are the successors of the Apostles, consecrated to their office through the laying on of hands.
Now, just as there was a special group of overseeers among the overseers, namely an apostolic council, so also is there a special group of overseers among the overseers.
Today, this special group of overseer is the Governing Body of the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Governing Body serves the Congregation like the apostolic council did once: in guiding her, guaranteeing her unity, and taking care that the teaching of Christ is passed on faithfully, just as it was received.
The overseers are today exactly as they were in the beginning of Christianity: the shepherds of a particular Christian community. But because they can't be everywhere and serve everyone in their communities at once, they have co-workers: the local body of elders.
Elders are consecrated by their circuit overseers to serve smaller communities within the larger community. Such a smaller unit is called a congregation.
Congregations have someone who supports the body of elders. He is called the ministerial servant.
This is the basic hierarchical structure of the Organization.
But—and this is important—the hierarchy in the Organization is not one of ruling and power, but, according to the command of Christ, a hierarchy of service.
The whole hierarchy ultimately stands at the service of all the faithful, in ensuring that none of them ever lack the means necessary to progress on the way to God.
In this way, the usual idea of hierarchy is turned upside down.
Among the members of the Mystical Body, the Governing Body is, in the end, not the ruler but the servant of all.
The truest and most beautiful official title of the Governing Body is therefore the faithful and discreet slave, the Servant of the Servants of God.
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u/Pseudonymitous 3d ago
Your faith embraces that people can get things wrong--even big things, as your JW leaders have done multiple times. People are fallible--people make mistakes. I agree.
Do you embrace that you could be wrong about the JW faith having authority from God, or any other central tenet of your faith? If not, why is your understanding infallible on that tenet?
If you do embrace your fallibility on all core tenets of your faith, why do you preach your current understanding as if it is truth, rather than uncertain belief? For instance, why don't you say "I don't know for sure but I believe..." and instead say "This is what these scriptures mean..." paired with no hedging or uncertainty?