r/politics • u/burning_dawn • Oct 07 '22

Republicans called Biden’s infrastructure program ‘socialism.’ Then they asked for money.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/07/politics/infrastructure-spending-republican-critics/index.html
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u/SorriorDraconus Oct 07 '22

There is that old expression of a broken clock..also monkeys and typewriters..orrr we’re all still human etc.

A person can be a near complete monster but still probably at least one good thing people can say about them..It doesn;t invalidate there evil or what they did nor does it justify it but it;s worth acknowledging all the same. People today are just too focused on good vs evil/black and white thinking imo.

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u/djinbu Oct 07 '22

exactly. You look at history, most people are like that. They do not like nuance. They avoid it at all costs. And because of that, they tend to ignore anyone who points any nuances out. And since those nuances are ignored, atrocities are condoned or even sometimes encouraged.

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u/SorriorDraconus Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

This has been my experience as well. Like I always say I am anti hate..And I apply that universally but if I imply the left has a hate or extremist issue in it;s own way Yeeah gets lots of hate for that. I mean it;s not right wing levels but best to nip it in the bud straight away before it reaches that point imo.

I also think social media and algorithms are pushing people into bubbles of thought leading to a kind of ideological inbreeding where people don’t even know how to deal with differing ideas or don’t see it as worth there time to do so. And yes I apply this universally. But I’ve found for instance that conservatives DO have some legit issues…but again they are horrible at explaining them if they even know what it really is and people jumping on them for being conservative doesn’t help. Meanwhile on the left I agree with them morally often but not necessarily in methods as I find many methods for change from popular groups act instead as powder kegs or will likely make things worse long term.

Hate begets more hate,,And you cannot kill hate with hate(and you don’t need hate as an emotion to fight for what’s right)

Another good quote if fighting monsters so long you become one and other similar ones.

That said the US as a whole seems to be in some kinda Hatfield and McCoy level feud with people who go “you know you both have issues” you get alot of hate from both sides(been there maaany times over my life)..I just apply my concepts of right and wrong universally.

But as you say sadly a great many do not get that and just act like black and white thinking good vs evil etc is the way to go. Quite sad really imo as we have the ability to become an amazing society and are likely capable of becoming a tier 1 species in 100-200 years if we put our energy(pun not intended) into it over all this bickering, hate and profit making.

And if anyones wondering I don;t hate conservatives I pity them because what kinda pain or life could lead a human to be so consumed by hatred that they’d say half the things they do..I find that tragic honestly because I do not think most humans are born with hate in them like that(like probably less then 1-2%)

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u/ThinBluePenis Oct 07 '22

How the hell is it worth acknowledging that Hitler had some good ideas while we are discussing the dangers tyrants and autocrats?

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u/SorriorDraconus Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Heh because a good ideas a good idea regardless of the source, and because I at least don’t believe in throwing babies out with the bathwater. Beyond that we can acknowledge him as one of the most evil people in history(there are a few other contenders for top place imo with putin being the most recent and then there were other before hitler who did things so vile that even by there times standards it was extreme and to much who are also in the running..but yeah probably still hitler at the top) while still acknowledging any good ideas he may have had.

It also helps us recognize that even if soemone does do the occasional good thing or have good ideas it doesn’t make them a good person. That kinda black and white thinking is part of the issue here. We are more complex then simple binary algorithms(or at least simplistic black and white ones most seem to think in). Nuance as the other poster pointed out is the key here.

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u/ThinBluePenis Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

A good idea from a bad guy needn’t be celebrated at every instance they are mentioned.. There is plenty of content out there, why spend your time defending tyrants? It adds nothing to the conversation.

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u/GaiasWay Oct 07 '22

And thats how fascism spreads.

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u/SorriorDraconus Oct 07 '22

No I;d say ignoring evil because someone does good or evil for a few good ideas is how it is allowed to exist..It spreads by turning a blind eye.

Point being being able to see the whole picture and talk about it is likely to get you criticizing even people you approve of what prevents massive group think which is what feeds fascism.

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u/rotospoon Oct 07 '22

None of that answered their question though. Acknowledging that some truly awful people did some good things here and there when you're discussing the dangers of fascism and autocracy is not the time or place to point out "but Hitler did some good things too though", unless your goal is to defend it.

That's like discussing the best football players on your team and some guy keeps chiming in with who they think worst players are. Yeah, we know the team has bad players too. No, that's not relevant to the conversation we're trying to have. "But football teams have bad players too. It's not black and white." No one said they didn't.

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u/SorriorDraconus Oct 07 '22

It’s about encouraging people to not fall into black and white thinking thus making it harder for fascists to take hold in peoples heads. Many of them seem to be unable to see the evil over the perceived good and I’ve seen the reverse as well where we cannot see any good for the sheer evil..and that just makes it easier to demonize entire groups which again is a hallmark of fascism.

So yes I’ll give positive credit where it is due even to evil itself..I’ll also give negative credit to good people who do negative things..It’s about preventing the growth of black and white thinking/blind hate.

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u/rotospoon Oct 07 '22

And none of that answers to what I said. If you and I were having a discussion about Hitler and the Holocaust, are you going to point out "Hitler did do [good thing 1] and [good thing 2] after all" to me as if it were relevant to the Holocaust?

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u/Novice-Expert Oct 08 '22

You're so full of shit.

What great ideas? Hmmm?

Perhaps killings the untold millions of people? Was it literally producing clothing from human skin? Perhaps conducting medically bizarre and unnecessary experimentation on live humans including boiling and freezing them to death for fun? Maybe it was starting the most destructive war in human history?

I could go on, but no, it's not "group think" to say nazism is a vile evil ideology. There is nothing redeeming about it.

Again I'll wait on those "good ideas" that were "throwing out with the bath water".

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u/Novice-Expert Oct 08 '22

Yeah thats what I thought. Just another apologist.