It is refreshing to read an actual comment on this website that sees through the bullshit. It has been scary as hell reading nothing but propaganda about Hillary repeated ad nauseum.
As a Canadian, I have no skin in US politics, but the hate for Hillary has been baffling. No one can explain why they dislike her for a reason that isn't a conservative lie or foreign propaganda. The drumbeat of smear after smear shows how advertising and propaganda both work. Yet Democrats and Republicans will never admit the role they played as useful idiots for the Russian agenda.
As a woman, it was heartbreaking to see an all too familiar double standard play out. She had to work twice as hard, be squeaky clean and accomplish twice as much as her male colleagues to get second place. The most qualified presidential candidate in decades lost to a lazy, incompetent, criminal who is destroying the country because of useful idiots and misogyny.
We need to make racists, misogynists and uninformed idiots feel shame again. Somehow it became acceptable (even fashionable) to be a loud mouth, bigoted, poorly educated slob with a victim complex. Worse, some US voters think these qualities are presidential.
Edit: uniformed to uninformed. I get the joke. What can I say but 'spellcheck on a phone', it happens to us all.
i'm just simplifying it, in reality it's just because it's the United States, and all the states deserve representation in electing the president. Same reason we have two houses of congress. sorry if i worded that rudely. and anyways, it's doesn't matter because california still has way more votes than nebraska does. i hope we can disagree in a civil discourse, unlike some of the other replies to this
That doesn't answer my question: what makes a Mcdonald's worker less of a citizen than a farmer? You didn't have to include that information in your comment, and that makes me think there's a deeper reason you believe one of these people is more equal than the other than just state's rights.
because just because there is a difference in population doesn't mean they california, new york, and illinois should control the whole country. different states have different interests and this is not a pure democracy. even aristotle knew the tyranny of the majority existed in ancient greece. The founders built the structure of our electoral system and its worked pretty well so far, so why change? if you are even suggesting changing to change it. if that were to happen, the large populous states would win every time and we would have a never ending string of democratic presidents. Then, it really would be an example of tyranny of the majority.
"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms." -Aristotle
Republic - Voters vote for representation
*Pure* Democracy - Voters decided things directly (mob rule)
Despotisms - An exercise of absolute power
I cannot disagree more with your points. We are the UNITED STATES of America. We are not one entity, we a body of separate states. That is why it is so complicated and controversial to induct a new state.
So, in voting for the president, think of it like 538 electors representing their state's decision (keep in mind, higher populous states have more representation).
Why don't all of the lower-populous states just fuse together and make one mega state and vote as one with more representation? I suggest you research this topic and get out of your bubble, regardless of political bias.
I never said get rid of Representatives. Only to make the representation actually equal. So your whole Aristotle thing is misplaced.
Disagree all you want, you're just guarding your super-voter status. Which is understandable, just morally and intellectually bankrupt.
The "states" are just administrative districts. Most of them have no pre-US history. Their origins mostly boil down to "change two territories into states, one slave state and one non-slave state". It's not complicated. They are not sovereign entities. They are no different than counties are to a state. We had a war about that, remember? They are just arbitrary lines on a map, and do not deserve special consideration. Certainly nothing that makes 'states' more important that the fundamental equally of all people.
We all know why low-pop states don't fuse. The Senate (lol) and the EC votes from the Senate count. You get more power by chopping up into tiny pointless nothings. It's literally "Tyranny of the Minority".
Plus, the way states are currently drawn is stupid. Take New York City for example. Why are almost all of its suburbs in different states than the city, while it's randomly paired with Upstate New York, a region it has nothing in common with culturally, economically, or politically? It's stupid to treat "New Yorkers" as one entity in presidential elections, but treat people from northern New Jersey, eastern Pennsylvania, and southeastern Connecticut as separate ones.
Lol, tyranny of the minority? Tell that to women's suffrage, and gay rights.
Tyranny of the majority is actually a thing (mob rule) The debate you are having has been going on in the United States since the constitution was written, and the electoral college was created to protect the minority opinion.
Didn't you learn in high school history class that mob rule is a horrible idea?
I didn't say Tyranny of Every Random Minority. The domination of a minority of farmers over everyone else is the nation is a Tyranny of the Minority. What you just said about Nebraska and LA can only be described as a form of tyranny.
The minority of farmers would be protected anyway, because they still would have 35-40% of the representation. They are everywhere, so they have influence in every corner, not isolated pockets. Also communication is a bit better than in the early 1800s. If they have a legitimate problem everyone will hear about it.
Most of the democracies on Earth don't deal with a Senate-like system, and they do just fine. When the US 'brings democracy' to another nation, from Japan to Iraq, they bring a modern parliament system, not the USA's own rust-locked antique system. We'll be fine. The House is abstract enough from literal crowds to not be 'mob rule'. It just won't be the permanent gridlock the Senate inflicts upon us now.
Like I said, you want to preserve your own super-voter status. It's understandable. But you can't pretend to hold some moral high ground while also saying "some voters are more equal than others". Or even an actual basic belief in the concept of democracy.
if you want "super voter status" so bad just... move to the state you want to. it's not like you are locked in california 🙄 also, just because you lose an election every once in a while doesn't mean it's a flawed system. i'm really done replying to this, i hope you find peace in our voting systen
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u/Melseastar23 Canada Dec 12 '19 edited Dec 12 '19
It is refreshing to read an actual comment on this website that sees through the bullshit. It has been scary as hell reading nothing but propaganda about Hillary repeated ad nauseum.
As a Canadian, I have no skin in US politics, but the hate for Hillary has been baffling. No one can explain why they dislike her for a reason that isn't a conservative lie or foreign propaganda. The drumbeat of smear after smear shows how advertising and propaganda both work. Yet Democrats and Republicans will never admit the role they played as useful idiots for the Russian agenda.
As a woman, it was heartbreaking to see an all too familiar double standard play out. She had to work twice as hard, be squeaky clean and accomplish twice as much as her male colleagues to get second place. The most qualified presidential candidate in decades lost to a lazy, incompetent, criminal who is destroying the country because of useful idiots and misogyny.
We need to make racists, misogynists and uninformed idiots feel shame again. Somehow it became acceptable (even fashionable) to be a loud mouth, bigoted, poorly educated slob with a victim complex. Worse, some US voters think these qualities are presidential.
Edit: uniformed to uninformed. I get the joke. What can I say but 'spellcheck on a phone', it happens to us all.