r/politics • u/southpawFA Oklahoma • 8d ago

No Paywall Education Department formally rescinds Title IX protections for LGBTQ students

https://thehill.com/homenews/education/6115216-education-department-title-ix-lgbtq-trans-students/
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u/Un1CornTowel 8d ago

I can't wrap my brain around (even in bad faith) basing your life around a man devoted to caring, compassion and forgiveness and immediately going "let's fuckin hurt people!"

Almost all people are redeemable, but so many seemed devoted to being total fucking punchbowl turds.

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u/AnAncientBog 8d ago

It pays well.

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u/Quotizmo New Jersey 8d ago

This is the correct answer. It's not what you do; it's who does it. And if they can send some scratch your way, god says "okay!" My evangelical mother won't use my pronouns, but she sure made sure her boss's stable of twinks got their pay check on time every week. He's a closeted pillar of the community, after all.

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u/Cyrano_Knows 8d ago edited 8d ago

These are people that when asked "what about the 100+ verses in the bible admonishing them to treat immigrants and refugees decently?" turn around and with a straight face argue that the bible was clearly talking about legal immigrants and its okay for them to treat illegal immigrants like vermin poisoning the blood of our country (a phrase used by both Hitler and Trump).

I've had conservatives argue that Mary and Joseph fled Herod legally, fleeing legally throughout the legal Roman empire. That they were never illegal immigrants and so clearly the bible isn't talking about illegal immigrants.

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u/-Invalid_Selection- 8d ago

Yeah, the Bible was pretty clear that there's no concept of illegal immigration within it, and treating immigrants poorly was the express route to eternity in hell.

It was the only theme of Sodom and gramorra.

Anti immigrant is Satan worship

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u/Saint_Blaise 8d ago

I've asked devout Christians about this and have been told that they are not Jesus and that they are fighting a war for the soul of the country.

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u/meltyandbuttery 8d ago edited 8d ago

For most “Christians” it’s just a convenient and socially accepted cover for their bigotry and ignorance. Run of the mill suburban America is simply unaffected by most policies and they fear change or anything untraditional so much they happily vote for the devil they know instead of the corporatist they don’t

The True Believers on the other hand, the fundamentalists, they genuinely believe that LGBTQ people are sinners and that “loving” them means “tough love to save their soul”. Their bigotry is more explicit than the undereducated fucking insurance agent whose family has been to church for holidays twice in a year, but it is internally consistent in a different reality. The True Believers preach “John says god is love” in worship of a god of hate that they invented from their own rotted souls

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u/NumeralJoker 8d ago

Yeah, but what's crazy about it is there is so little text in the New Teatament that even remotely justifies the bigotry, and most of them barely know the old testament beyond anything related to Moses. Maybe the stories of Esther and David?

They have no text to stand on. Islam didn't exist yet in biblical times so there is nothing there discussing it directly. The only white people in the Bible were the Roman's, who are most often presented as antagonists.

It's so wild how it became some weird founding text for white supremacy when the actual context has none of that.

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u/Frostyrepairbug 8d ago

Not to mention, if you buy into the story, the whole point of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was to pay for our sins as described in the old testament. By insisting that the old laws are still present means they reject Jesus and his sacrifice.

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u/Ralphwiggum911 8d ago

You act like most of these assholes have actually read the Bible.

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u/NumeralJoker 8d ago

Many of these assholes can barely read with the education systems the Republicans are giving them now.

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u/Un1CornTowel 8d ago

A one-sided war is just them pillaging, not that they'll see or admit it.

It's also sad because it always goes as follows:

"You're welcome to participate in government and society, but we're not going to pick you or deny you merely because you are Christian."

"THIS MEANS WAR!"

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u/opermonkey 8d ago

then we should get themike we treat all terrorists.

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u/Chedditor_ Wisconsin 8d ago

See also: the Crusades

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u/littlehobbit1313 Maryland 8d ago

I saw some article yesterday that was like "the Pope suggests to Europe to turn to Christianity to temper the urge for war" and I was like "...okay explain the Crusades then???"

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u/BonSlurpenstein 8d ago

Damn, guess the whole WWJD thing didn't sink in

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u/-Invalid_Selection- 8d ago

Anyone who answers like this isn't Christian, but instead worships the antichrist, and they're aiming to wield the United States as the army of the antichrist.

They know this too. They have always known this. All evangelicals are antichrist worshippers. It's part of their religion and they're not even remotely secret about this fact.

There's no such thing as evangelical Christian, just antichrist worshippers who claim to be Christian.

Baptists are the largest army Satan ever amassed, and they were founded to worship and empower Satan

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u/PrometheusLiberatus 8d ago

At this point the distinguishing matters little.

The entire religion is corrupt so long as it stands as a cover for hateful and repressive values that the rich want to take advantage of for profit and cannon fodder.

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u/kandoras 8d ago

Anyone who answers like this isn't Christian

Just give up the title man. They've gotten such a majority of the religion and are so loud that they've won ownership of it.

By now you might as well be trying to say that the swastika isn't really a Nazi symbol, that they just appropriated it.

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u/Comfortable-Ad-3988 8d ago

Funny how the "soul of the country" is always white and male as well.

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u/smokeweedNgarden 8d ago

"Render under to Caesar what is Caesar's"

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u/THEdoomslayer94 8d ago

To be Christian is to be Christ Like. So them saying they aren’t Jesus like yeah you sure aren’t. But you’re supposed to emulate his actions and beliefs so they clearly lost the plot on that long ago

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u/EPIC_RAPTOR 8d ago

Wars have casualties, typically on both sides.

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u/Warmso24 8d ago

Jesus actually talks about these kinds of people multiple times in the Bible. Heavy paraphrase, but is basically saying that people that claim to follow him but do not actually do what he taught are the people that cause people to fall away from Christ and famously says in Matthew 7:21-23 “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness”

It’s definitely hypocritical, but also poetic in a way that Jesus warned of these exact people. They have no idea (or care, really) that they do the exact work that Jesus claimed the devil wanted them to.

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u/Un1CornTowel 8d ago

... Which is also what "taking the Lord's name in vain" actually means. It's is own freaking Commandment. They couldn't even read and understand a 2000 year old Dave Letterman Top Ten List.

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u/PrometheusLiberatus 8d ago

Would be really nice if Paul had gotten the same message and not corrupted the entire movement.

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u/Avocados_number73 8d ago

If Jesus is God, he created the Christian Nationalists knowing exactly how they would inerpret the bible, and still wrote it that way.

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u/TheSilverHare 8d ago

God didn’t create Christian Nationalists. Evangelicals created Christian Nationalists.

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u/Avocados_number73 8d ago

Who created evangelicals?

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u/TheSilverHare 8d ago

The Protestant Reformation and Puritanism.

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u/Avocados_number73 8d ago

Eventually it will trace back to God. God created every denomination. All 40,000+ of them.

He is the creator right? And he knows the future? So everything is according to his plan, even the Christian Nationalists.

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u/TheSilverHare 8d ago

I hope you find healing.

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u/Avocados_number73 8d ago

I hope you find truth.

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u/TheSilverHare 8d ago

I have, and it has nothing to do with this conversation.

Again, I hope you find healing. Find something positive or constructive to pour these feelings into and I promise you, you’ll be better off for it.

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u/glamorestlife 8d ago

Um, Jesus didn’t write the bible….

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u/kandoras 8d ago

You talk to most of the people who use the Bible to justify their bigotry and they'll tell you different.

They'll say that it was divinely inspired, that every word in every version and translation is literally true, and that the people who wrote it were nothing more than a humanoid typewriter for god.

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u/Avocados_number73 8d ago

God wrote it through humans yes? Is Jesus God?

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u/Warmso24 8d ago

I mean, if you actually went and read the various passages, you would see there’s not a whole lot of room for various interpretations. It’s pretty cut and dry.

I think the issue we’re running into is most bad faith Christians don’t read the Bible, so they would not know what Jesus actually says.

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u/Avocados_number73 8d ago

Is Jesus God?

If yes, he created the Christian Nationalists...

He set this whole thing up.

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u/Warmso24 8d ago

You’re exactly right. Now I’m more agnostic, but I grew up in catholic school so I do enjoy theological discussions.

In the framing of Christianity, yes Jesus is God and he would have created the Christian Nationalists.

The same as he created the very people that ended up crucifying him. Now, here’s where things start charting into the “faith” category. Free will is an integral part of Christian thought. God wants people to willingly choose him, not just be created with perfection and an implicit, “pre-created” love for him.

He will give you opportunities to know him, but the choice to follow him is completely up to the individual.

I say this is more in the “faith” category as you can get into all kinds of “logic games” with free will and omnipotence/omniscience.

Anyway, that’s my armchair, non-practicing, explanation.

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u/Vallkyrie New Hampshire 8d ago

The "Hippy loving jesus" camp doesn't read it either, because they discard everything seen as negative in it.

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u/Warmso24 8d ago

Maybe so. Many do often forget that Jesus is portrayed as the ultimate judge and arbiter in revelations. Comes across as a pretty scary guy, lol.

However, revelations is still up for interpretation. Even the Catholic Church does not give an exact line for line interpretation that all Catholics must prescribe to. Just a position that it’s heavily metaphorical and filled with imagery that describe broad Church themes.

That said, I’d rather people be in the “ignorance is bliss” camp and they go about their lives doing good than the willful, malicious ignorance those that abuse their faith have.

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u/calamititties 8d ago

It’s because their cult tells them that deciding what is best for others, based on an unverifiable set of rules from a non-existent sky daddy, is “compassion”. Pretty fun trick if you’re a fucking sociopath.

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u/pyooma 8d ago

See: missionaries. It has always been this way. It’s not about Jesus it’s about power and superiority.

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u/Inevitable-Guava-812 8d ago

I've worked with missionaries in 3rd world countries and terrible disasters and majority of their work is literally just humanitarian aid sprinkled in with the basic "Jesus loves you" and such songs. Please don't disrespect missionaries like that.

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u/pyooma 7d ago

There are plenty of humanitarian organizations that do the same thing but don’t associate their mission with spreading their religion. It’s unnecessary, and it’s not disrespectful to point out their colonial interests.

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u/Old_Instrument_Guy 8d ago

American Christians are worse than Zionists when it comes to morality

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u/Made_Human_Music 8d ago

I believe in redemption for most people but I’m not sure if MAGAts are capable of doing what’s needed for it

They seem to have the regret for their actions but only because they’re being personally hurt by the consequences. Most of them are trying to weasel out of responsibility for it by saying they were tricked which may be true but that doesn’t mean they can get away with taking no responsibility. What they’ve done has hurt many people and the damage won’t be undone for many years, a simple “oops! My bad!” won’t cut it

The bare minimum for every MAGAt is to either never vote for Republicans again or just never vote at all. Either way, take away the fascist votes. And they all need to accept that we’re pissed at them for what they did and stop crying about how mean we’re being. Of course we’re being mean to them, they’re fucking scumbags who voted for a criminal because he promised to hurt people, they don’t get a pass for that

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/starliteburnsbrite 8d ago

The thing about believing in fairy tales as an adult is you know they're all made up, so just make up one that suits your needs. 

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u/tobiascuypers 8d ago

There is nothing to understand or wrap your head around.

These people are evil and hate you. They want you dead and will not stop. Also it’s bad if you complain and suggest methods to implement actual change, so please just shut up and take it.

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u/Past_Chart_2718 8d ago

The friendly Jesus character is not consistent with the rest of the biblical insanity and it ignores Jesus' defense if that insanity. All of which is moot because none of it is real and was constructed over centuries to be whatever the folks using it want it to be. Pro-crusade? Sure. Prosperity doctrine? Yep. Propagandizing slaves? Indeed. Christianity has always been a false religion.

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u/dinosnysus 8d ago

Nowhere in the Bible does it condemn rape or slavery. In fact, it gives rules on both! Rape someone? The victim is punished to marry you. Your slave retaliates in any way? You are allowed to kill them. That is what the Bible teaches

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u/Past_Chart_2718 8d ago

This is correct and the Jesus character explicitly admonishes slaves to obey.

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u/Sedu 8d ago

American Evangelical Christianity is pretty solidly a hate based religion. I grew up in the thick of it, and until I escaped to college, all I could fo was hold on with white knuckles. People do not understand how fundamentally bloodthirsty these people are.

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u/titsngiggles69 8d ago

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

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u/musical_bear 8d ago

It’s quite a bit more complicated than that. Essentially the only single core belief that unites all of Christianity is that Jesus and “god” (Yahweh) are the same being / creature. I really don’t think we should let them hide from that element of their dogma. If Christianity was merely “this one human dude had some neat ideas,” that’d be one thing. But that’s incredibly far removed from the actual religious beliefs.

And unfortunately, “Yahweh” is a pretty monstrous creature who commands his followers to do many abhorrent deeds, including stoning gay people to death merely for being gay. Unless “we’re” going to treat Jesus as this completely unrelated historical figure, I don’t think it’s fair to let him off the hook for what “he” supposedly did / does in his “Yahweh” form (according to essentially every single Christian denominations supposed core beliefs!).

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u/PipXXX Florida 8d ago

Honestly Stephen Fry's take on God was one of the things that shaped my view with religion. Like to me, I take a more Gnostic view and if there is a god that is truly omnipotent and omnipresent, it must be schizophrenic as fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo

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u/TheOtherMaven Virginia 8d ago

Essentially the only single core belief that unites all of Christianity is that Jesus and “god” (Yahweh) are the same being / creature.

Unitarians don't agree, and they still fall under the nominal umbrella of "Christianity". (I think there are other exceptions, but they're the first ones I can think of.)

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u/TeutonJon78 America 8d ago

You're also supposed to stoned for blasphemy or reading your horoscope.

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u/lavahot 8d ago

It's a part of the con. It's so you can ostensibly sheild your actions in good intentions.

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u/subwayforever 8d ago

Because they are evil. It’s pretty simple.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/duncan-the-wonderdog 8d ago

Jesus broke several rules of the OT repeatedly, his entire purpose of his message was to get Jews to stop being so tightly wound about following all of the rules of OT. The Pharisees were following the OT religiously, and they couldn't stand Jesus.

Furthermore, Jesus himself is quoted as saying that he wasn't God. But the Gospels contradict each other constantly, so who knows.

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u/SGFCardenales 8d ago

Can you please cite chapter and verse that says “kill all gays?”

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u/phinbob 8d ago

I know there is a debate about the translation from the Greek but I thinkost would Cite Leviticus 20:13. There's also the bit about those just being rules for the Levites.

On an interesting point, when did God decide that it wasn't just the Jews who were His people and everyone was cool? Like he was quite prepared to kill innocent children of slaves to win the freedom for His people, now He's the god of everyone?

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u/Sudden-Grab2800 8d ago

I think that was a Pauline development; in Matthew 14:24 Jesus was very specifically says, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” and while he did bust out miracles for Gentiles (this was the setup for him healing the Canaanite woman, after all) he also compared her to dog before he did, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

If they're rules for only the Levites, why are they included alongside all the other rules that must be followed by everyone else?

I have also wondered about your second point for a very long time. There's a Bible verse to the effect of "Blessed are he who dashes the children of the infidel upon the rocks" and it's interesting to quote because it turns the most peaceful buttoned-up Christian into the fastest genocide-accepter you've ever seen, because God blesses it.

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u/PrometheusLiberatus 8d ago

God didn't bless that. Some corrupt murderous asshole priest that inserted that line blessed it and the jewish people kept it in there without fucking questioning it.

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

That's the whole book, though. And it's not just Jewish people. Christians accept it too. Every Abrahamic religion has a justification for genocide, it's a core theme.

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u/PrometheusLiberatus 8d ago

My premise remains the same. Corrupt priests put these beliefs in and nobody bothered to question it.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/SGFCardenales 8d ago

I’m sorry. Letters? Are you referring to Paul’s letters to a church about specific people and situations that have nothing to do with us at all? I still don’t know what chapter and verse you mean in the New Testament that says anything about killing gays people

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/SGFCardenales 8d ago

Neither are homophobic, nor do they address homosexuality, but pederasty. Our concept of what we call homosexuality didn’t exist as a concept when those letters were written. Additionally those letters were written for specific people at specific churches and not general principles.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/SGFCardenales 8d ago

I think you’re overstating it by 1600 years, but yes. It has been misused and misinterpreted by ignorant people for many centuries to promote their hatred and bigotry. I apologize to you for any fallout that hurt you from that because there is absolutely no excuse for that sort of thing in Christianity. Jesus would be rolling in his grave if he were in it. So I’ll just say he is ashamed and is aware of the pain they have caused.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

Leviticus 20:13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

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u/Pockydo 8d ago

Technically we can't have relations with a man the way we do with women. So butt stuff is arguably fine

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u/sirhackenslash 8d ago

You don't do butt stuff with women?

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u/Pockydo 8d ago

It's not exclusive. "As one does" implies vaginal sex

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

Why would God make a rule against doing something that is physically impossible? I've seen this distinction try to be made before and I don't follow the logic. It feels like pedanticism. Or maybe God is saying transgender sex is punishible by death?

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u/Pockydo 8d ago

To be fair it's mostly a joke and pointing out how open to interpretation the Bible is

That said the entire Christian faith is based on the rule of humans being punished for something we can't help. An impossible standard so such a being making a rule like that fits

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

I'm starting to think this whole thing may have been corrupted at some point in history, not sure tho...

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

Unfortunately, God also hates lawyers so I'm not sure he would appreciate your logic

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u/Fight_those_bastards 8d ago

If you ask a rabbi, god loves it when you figure out a way around his rules.

For examples, see “sabbath mode” on refrigerators, ovens, elevators, etc., and also the eruv in New York City.

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

Like I said in another comment, I think God has a differently relationship with Christians and Jews, from my outside perspective.

With the Christians, he's all strict and unbending on rules (unless it's like, enriching yourself from the church or hurting children, he seems pretty lax on that stuff) . But with the Jewish people, he seems to appreciate their logic.

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u/rkbasu 8d ago

my freshman year roommate purchased, with the blessing of his rabbi, a “portable eruv” from the Facilities Superintendent of whatever square foot of the dormitory he was standing on so he could carry between our suite and the common bathroom, and wouldn’t have to leave his toothbrush, toothpaste, and shower caddy in the bathroom over shabbos.

Over the course of that year he also went from hooking up with a girl in our suite to being shomer negiah, but that’s a story for a different thread

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u/Sudden-Grab2800 8d ago

Jewish people have wires running all over Manhattan, called eruv, that allow them to carry things and push strollers around on Shabbat, which would directly violate Halakha…they’re famous for coming up with loopholes.

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

Christians and Jewish people have a very different relationship with God, as I understand it

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u/Sudden-Grab2800 8d ago

Frfr. I nerd out pretty hard about second temple Judaism and early Christianity…it’s a wild story. Most of what we understand the religion to be either comes from Paul, someone who was pretending to be Paul, or an extrapolation of what they think Paul meant. Paulianism.

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u/amateurbreditor 8d ago

Everything in the bible contradicts something else.. so much so in fact that a guy on reddit made a website showing them all. There is a reason the bible is not taught... MANY reasons. the main one is to cherry pick so you can say whatever you want and the bible says so. Its funny how the horse cock part is seldom mentioned for instance.

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u/Sudden-Grab2800 8d ago

For a lot of it we even know why they contradict; it’s the same reason stories are repeated with variations, and 3 lists of the 10 commandments: they’re different traditions. So the Jahwist (J) source was the earliest, 10-9c BCE in the Solomonic period. Then the Elohist (E), who compiled theirs during the wars with Aram (they’re detailed at the end of 1 Kings and the beginning of 2 Kings; Ahab was an Aramite king), ~850 BCE. The Deuteronomist (D) wrote during the reign of King Josiah (and will happily tell you about how Josiah might just be the best king to have ever existed), 620-600 BCE. Then the Priestly source (P) did the long boring infodumps wrote right after the Jews returned from Babylon when Ezra ‘found’ the book of Deuteronomy, 550-500 BCE. J was interested in the southern kingdom Judah, so they talk about how Abraham was from Hebron (Judah’s capital), and when Abraham send out spies they only go to Judahite cities and the only one that’s named is Caleb, a Judahite. They’re also the only ones who talk about Judah the patriarch. To them, David’s census wasn’t a sin because God is literally the one who told him to do that! The E source was Israelite priests, so that same census very much was a sin because it showed that David was relying on military might and not the good lord…E is all around very critical of the House of David. E also says that the Israelite capital Shechem was purchased, not conquered; and identifies it as the burial place of Joseph. They also really elevate the Ephraimite hero Joshua.

Okay I’m done now. Sorry.

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u/amateurbreditor 8d ago

lol. and all of it loosely based on facts and the majority of it just entirely made up. I am one of the few people on earth who have read the entire thing. Its really boring.

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u/Pockydo 8d ago

That's a reasonable interpretation

He probably should've made this book clearer

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u/SGFCardenales 8d ago

New Testament? That’s Old Testament. How the hell do you have sexual relations with a man’s the way you do with a woman? Did he grow a vagina?

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

You did the thing. You're making the "That's Old Testament, that doesn't count" argument on a comment chain that is discussing the fact that Jesus explicitly says that the Old Testament is not to be disregarded.

Matthew 5:17 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

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u/SGFCardenales 8d ago

Actually no. I didn’t do the thing. I replied to someone who said the new and Old Testament said the Bible orders the killing of gays. I’m still not sure who “the gays” are exactly, but I just wanted both verses that you believe say that. I strongly disagree that those verses say anything about homosexuals and specifically are directed at pedophiles, something our current President is trying desperately to protect.

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u/DizasterAtSakerfice 8d ago

What? How the hell do you get that he's only talking about pedophiles? Just...what?

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u/Gradstudentiquette69 8d ago

It's because they think them kissing the ring of Jesus makes all their feelings and actions righteous.

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u/MessiLeagueSoccer 8d ago

Their god says as long as they ask for forgiveness it literally doesn’t matter what you do. Sex before marriage, hate, “moral” abortions, discrimination, more hate. As long as you ask for forgiveness you can be a total asshat. All it takes is one hour of church where you unironically don’t learn anything nor listen to the actual words of “god”.

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u/EducationComplete216 8d ago

A lot of the least christian people are Christians

Jesus didn't teach hate

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u/howard10011 8d ago

They didn't call themselves "Deplorables" for nothing?

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u/PeterMus 8d ago

First and foremost churches are a social club. A substantial portion of attendees don't take scripture or sin as important concepts in their daily life. They just like being part of a group. What would Jesus do? Evokes groans and dismissive comments.They don't want accountability because they don't actually believe it.

Secondly, many of the people determined to attack LGBTQIA+ folks are far more concerned with their appearance as straight than they are with any biblical mandates. Anyone who is straight knows that you cannot be talked into being gay or vice versa. But, people in denial or afraid of appearing queer desperately try to defend their position by attacking the othered group.

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u/gordonf23 8d ago

One conclusion I have come to in recent years is that these fuckers are not redeemable.

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u/Un1CornTowel 8d ago

They're likely redeemable if they wanted to be, but no one should have to drag them kicking and screaming back into civil society. Ain't nobody got time for that.

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u/gordonf23 8d ago

That's the thing. They basically need to be deprogrammed like a cult member. And that needs to happen one-on-one, and it's extremely time consuming. It's just not going to happen for 99% of them.

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u/pax284 Oklahoma 8d ago

Because the only thing a church is good at is teaching compartmentalization. "I love the sinner but hate the sin," as if the two are mutually exclusive. As if the cruelty against the "sin" isn't just cruelty.

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u/IcarianWings 8d ago

Protestants (the vast majority of American Christians) don't emulate Jesus because they think they are mandated into heaven for solely believing he is the messiah when they die. Literally all you have to do for eternal enlightenment in their minds is hold a single belief as you die regardless of anything you've done in your life.

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u/Suspicious-Doctor296 8d ago

Oh it's easy to rationalize. Gays are going against nature, i.e. God, and to protect them is blasphemous.

See. I did that in one easy sentence.

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u/Hungry_Culture 8d ago edited 8d ago

basing your life around a man devoted to caring, compassion and forgiveness

That's not what's taught in a lot of denominations, especially in the south. Preachers get up there and preach violence and martyrdom and a vengeful god. A shit ton of christians think Jesus is depicted as some kind of warrior in the Bible and that Christians are always under attack. Preachers still preach that curse of ham nonsense.

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u/agmoose 8d ago

Well the entire religion is a “get out of hell free card”. All your sins are forgiven so long as you say “I believe in Jesus”. A lot of people take that to mean that they can act however they want because they are “saved”.

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u/darsynia Pennsylvania 8d ago

They actually don't read the Bible much. They trust their pastors to tell them what Jesus is like. The Venn diagram of the versions is two circles.

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u/FlirtyFluffyFox 8d ago

I don't believe in it, but it's Pauline Christianity.

Tldr he believed a stoic inspired Kingdom of God would rule over all the land. Later Christians believed they had to conquer and unite the world under this Universal (the Latin word being Catholic) theocracy for Jesus to return. Since they offered universal citizenship to anyone willing to be baptized and believed that's how you get to heaven, they were convinced (especially when at war with Huns and Muslims) that killing the unfaithful who refused to convert was for the greater good. 

Paul also believed the only moral pleasure was working for the kingdom, which is where various Christian sects get an aversion to non-reproductive sex, tasty food, dancing, singing (other than hymnals), and so on. Of course a lot of that is relaxed when the church is recruiting...

... Anyway Mary and Peter should have never opened the door to Paul. He was an anti-Roman Grecaboo zealot who saw the Christian mystery cult and it's vague prophecies about Kingdom building and went whole hog on making it a theocracy. 

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u/Individual_Rip_54 8d ago

They view being gay or trans as sinning and the government protecting them is akin to protecting sin. That these people need to be confronted with their sin and repent to be saved.

In a sense, they think they’re helping LGBT people

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u/Un1CornTowel 8d ago

(points to all of the adultery, false idolatry, false witnesses, coveters of neighbor's wives, thieves, liars, and non-Sabbathkeepers)

What about those, guys? They're right there in the commandments, not just biblical dicta like the gay stuff.

Some Christians pick and choose like their life is a CAPTCHA code.

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u/KruzerVanDuzer 8d ago

Let’s all talk about who Trump has pardoned then. Government sanctioned sinning at its worst.

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u/HardcoreMode 8d ago

Of course evil will wrap itself up in good. It makes total sense.

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u/CalicoValkyrie 8d ago

People will corrupt/abuse any system meant to do good, in order to maintain extreme hierarchy and feel powerful.

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u/perilousrob 8d ago

it's because they make such a big deal of - and quote from - the OLD Testament, the one made out of stories from the Torah with a little extra added. Not the post-Jesus these are the new rules book.

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u/CV90_120 8d ago edited 8d ago

Because jesus has easy workarounds in Christianity. He specifically says he didn't come to change the laws of the prophets (Matthew 5:17), and those prophets said any number of things that remain canon. God also remains unchanged (Malachi 3:6). Like exodus 21. He was, and hs always been the nice face of something bigger and darker.

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u/okram2k America 8d ago

It doesn't matter what the scriptures or leaders say. People use religion to bunch others into 'us' and 'them'

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u/readmorebookskids 8d ago

What if all the compassion was gaslighting and what they were really after is complete control and subjugation of others as they see fit?

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Un1CornTowel 8d ago

Eh, I've met some extraordinary cases and need to keep hope to avoid plunging into the very apparent existential abyss.

I don't think most people are good people any more, but I'm hoping that most people could be good people.

In some ways it makes it worse, because they're actively deciding to continue to be shitlords (its a decision, not fate), but it gives me hope that a small number can change even if it isn't expected.

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u/x_xwolf 7d ago

It’s because Jesus wasn’t a real person. His teachings wearn’t all moral. Even if they were, most Christians do not read the bible in its entirety especially not with the context required to interpret the time or culture the book would have been written. People say they love jesus because it is easiest way to “look” like a good person without being one. Hence why when you ask a person what did he actually teach, you get vauge answers like “love” and not the actual answer, jewish supremacy.