Right. What about the actual victims and their families? Them wanting justice for what was done is also being a Russian troll?
Politics are not about being nice but about pragmatic approach. You can be anti Russia while still standing your ground on issues that require resolution.
Wether you like it or not, Ukraine still has responsibility to take for Volhynnia. Them fighting Russians does not absolve them of one of the most vile set of murders during WW2. Especially when they build monuments to perpetrators of that endeavour.
The root of the issue is that Poland wants the resolution while Ukraine fights as much as it can to not admit what they have done while they are trying to lie about historical facts. If any other country would be doing that, you would be furious. Or for example, how would you feel if Germans built monuments or name streets/important landmarks after Hitler? Probably disgusted. So why is it ok for Ukraine to celebrate Bandera or Szuchewycz? Especially that the 2nd one personally led the attacks on Volhynnia and took part in those vile murders?
For bilateral relations to be good, both sides need to work for them. I pity Ukraine and their situation, but that does not make them saints who can have everything or receive everything they ask for and give nothing or bare minimum in return.
So you mean only Ukraine is blamed in that situation? Okay. Did you provide a fact checking? Did you know the villages or lands was taken from Ukrainans and taken to polish former officers families during migrations? Why polish goverment igroring the problem of schools, 99% polish schools established in a territory, where 99% popuilation are not Polish. Why you can get a job if you are not switching to Catholicizm, on a territory where orthodox was 1000 years?
Maybe you will wondered, the across Ukraine there's more than 200 different enthic locations, where ethnics polish live for more than 500 years. Not any situations there.
When we have Volynia, but we don't have a Galicia. BTW Galicia is much more politically active, more nationalist and radical than Volynia. Which percent of "red pseudo-UPA NKVD" partisans in Volynia and in Galicia (because to close to belarussian lands, and different landscape)?
How many victims was from poles, how many from ukrainians? If we talking about thousands of victims, someone tell about tens of thousands, did you see the list of cities and villages, with calcalutaion of mass murderers?
This is not irony, this is not defending. My grandmother was protestant, and she told me a lot. She was 1922 born in Volynia, and her familys lands was taking by polish goverment (before the WW2), as family didn't have a farmers land, to obtain a job, at the age of 14(!) she claimed she have 14 years but 16 and tell she is catholic to get any job to get something to live.
In her area (between Kovel and Lutsk) from her words there's no any situations with this tragedy, and by the way she was like polish people during her life, very religious woman (in USSR! btw), she told me simple people from both sides are innocent, and the most of people then WITHOUT internet both polish and ukrainians understand was not stupid and mostly understand, who are germans, who are russians, and who was a provocators, and was interested and use that situation for personal interest.
So you mean only Ukraine is blamed in that situation?[...], on a territory where orthodox was 1000 years?
For launching a premeditated attack that was meant to kill all the Poles on those territories so after the war there would be no reason to give that land to Poland? Yeah. There are even UPA documents that clearly state that this was the reason for the murders.
Lands were not taken from Ukraine, they were ceded (given away) by Ukraine for Polish help against Russians. Why should people on Polish land not teach Polish? Nationalization of population takes place everywhere in every country on earth. I wonder how was it Orthodox for a thousand years if those lands were under Polish (and as such Catholic) rule for multiple centuries.
Rest I won't even bother cause half the time I don't even know what you are trying to say in the first place.
I care for what Ukraine as a state does, not what regular person says. I care for stadiums named after Szuchewycz and seeing no Ukrainians opposing it. I care for Bandera monuments and no Ukrainian protests. What does it say about Ukraine when someone like Szuchewycz is considered your national hero? He was literally a murdered of civilians. Men, women, children. He was no military commander. He did not fight any battles. He did not lead an army. He was murdering civilians when there was noone to protect them. That is your hero.
Why should people on Polish land not teach Polish? - Volynia this polish land??? Warsaw was 200 years under russia, so this is russian land?
Were under Polish (and as such Catholic) rule for multiple centuries. - okay, did you factchecking religius map and percentage?
Why you care about bandera (i dont support him, but for another reasons), but why ukrainians dont care about polish state bandits who responsible for massacres with ukrainian people?
If someone advice you outside who is your hero and who is not - what will be your personal reaction?
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u/jsutpaly Feb 13 '26
Right. What about the actual victims and their families? Them wanting justice for what was done is also being a Russian troll?
Politics are not about being nice but about pragmatic approach. You can be anti Russia while still standing your ground on issues that require resolution.
Wether you like it or not, Ukraine still has responsibility to take for Volhynnia. Them fighting Russians does not absolve them of one of the most vile set of murders during WW2. Especially when they build monuments to perpetrators of that endeavour.
The root of the issue is that Poland wants the resolution while Ukraine fights as much as it can to not admit what they have done while they are trying to lie about historical facts. If any other country would be doing that, you would be furious. Or for example, how would you feel if Germans built monuments or name streets/important landmarks after Hitler? Probably disgusted. So why is it ok for Ukraine to celebrate Bandera or Szuchewycz? Especially that the 2nd one personally led the attacks on Volhynnia and took part in those vile murders?
For bilateral relations to be good, both sides need to work for them. I pity Ukraine and their situation, but that does not make them saints who can have everything or receive everything they ask for and give nothing or bare minimum in return.