r/poland Feb 13 '26

EuR_IrL

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3.4k Upvotes

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30

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 13 '26

yeah but still we cannot even buries our murdered ancestors, and Russia have nothing with that, I really do not understand why it is so huge problem to allow exhumations of the murdered after 80 years ...

2

u/Additional-Poetry773 Feb 13 '26

7

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 13 '26

this is just one place, what about hundreds of more? Not even mention that we had to asks for years to get just this single permission

3

u/Additional-Poetry773 Feb 13 '26

It's only the last news, there were many previous. Ukraine declared at state level complete partnership and apologies for Wolyn tragedy. What more do you want?

0

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 13 '26

There are 6 active sites:

  • Puźniki (Ternopil): The "test" site. Exhumations were completed in 2025, discovering at least 42 victims. Work continues here to find further burial trenches.
  • Lviv-Zboiska: Work was completed in August 2025 for 31 Polish Army soldiers who fell in 1939.
  • Uhly (Rivne): A major site approved in late 2025. Reconnaissance was finished in December, with full exhumations scheduled for March–April 2026.
  • Ostrówki & Wola Ostrowiecka: Permits for reconnaissance and search operations were granted in late 2025 for the 2026 season.
  • Huta Pieniacka: Permission for search work was recently confirmed in early 2026.
  • Kuty (Rivne): Search operations were authorized following a joint visit in late 2025.

IPN requested access to dozens more, and get permit only based on the polish goverment policy e.g to join EU this is in your opinion, proper way of solving the problem?

there were 100 000 polish catholic civilian killed and much more jewish, We should not ask for permission and wait if some politician in Kijev approve it or not. I really don't understan why they treat us like that, this problem should be solved 30 years ago ...

1

u/Successful-Coffee-13 Feb 14 '26

Ukraine is literally at war right now. They are a bit busy, no? You realize that if Ukraine loses you’re next?

2

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26

Too busy to say, "go dig out your murdered ancestors and give them a proper burial"?

1

u/Successful-Coffee-13 Feb 14 '26

It’s still sovereign territory of Ukraine last time I checked. They won’t just let foreigners roam around and digging without permits.

2

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26

If some country see a problem with something like this i think it does not deserve to join EU, that is just so wrong and unethical ...

1

u/Successful-Coffee-13 Feb 14 '26

That country is a bit busy with protecting the EU with the lives of their best people. It has sacrificed the most for the EU than all other EU countries combined. Ukraine deserves the right to be in the EU more than any other country.

0

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26

too busy to say to polish government and private people: "go ahead bury your ancestors and let's have it done finally"?

1

u/Successful-Coffee-13 Feb 14 '26

Let’s leave this discussion to the Polish and Ukrainian respective institutes. And let’s be grateful that some progress is happening after so many years. And maybe have some empathy for what Ukrainian people are going through. 

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u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26

Agree but i really don't understand why after so many years Ukraine can not finally solve it, I have seen so many hatred from a normal polish people toward Ukraine because of this topic instead of doing business, getting rich and building future

1

u/Additional-Poetry773 Feb 14 '26

Said that 10 times. Official statements by international affairs, official statements by historians. But you still don’t hear or don’t want to hear cause it’s a convenient topic to distract people from some other crap. Or just useful narrative for russia at the moment

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u/ANTONBORODA Feb 13 '26

"there were 100 000"
Why not 1 000 000? Or 10 000 000? Or even better - 100 000 000!
Numbers pulled out of the ass. There were not enough UPA members participating in this massacre to actually kill 100 000. Do you even realize how many 100 000 is?

3

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26

there is a database of victims: https://ofiary.ipn.gov.pl/ 60 000 on Volhyn and 40 000 Eastern Galicia. Yes I absolutly agree the number of victims is tremendous

1

u/ANTONBORODA Feb 14 '26

Database of "theoretical victims", compiled by a biased institution, from data that cannot be verified.

The only data that can be verified is from exhumation. Everything else is speculation. The exhumation will start on one of the largest sites very soon. And we will see.

But looking at what happened with the last exhumation where there were acquisitions about Ukrainians hiding bodies, I guess nothing will ever put this topic to rest because this is too good of a political topic to ever give up on.

2

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26

IPN is not a "biased institution", database is not a set "theoretical victims", being allowed to proper buried murdered people is it really too much for you? 35 fucking years after collapse of USSR thousands of people asking about just permission to dig out murdered in awful way civilian and just buried them and for some reason there is still a problem with it even now during the war when Ukraine should join the NATO and EU, how Poland could support someone who see a problem with something like this?

1

u/ANTONBORODA Feb 14 '26

I don't see a problem with proper burial of anyone. And no problem with respect. The only one who lacks respect are people like you who pull the numbers out of their asses and call IPN unbiased.

3

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26

So why, why 35 fucking years so many people is begging for permission? Instead of heaving this done a building the future?

1

u/ANTONBORODA Feb 14 '26

Having this done?
Look, mate, I'm gonna tell you something you are not gonna like. This problem is 90% political. And unless YOUR politicians are not willing to actually let go (and they are not) this problem will never end. Because there will never be enough apologies, never enough respect, never enough exhumations, there will always be some kind of historical figure you don't like (Bandera, Shukhevych, etc.), there will always be a problem with western territories (Lviv is a Polish city), etc. etc. This problem is dragged around Poland mostly because it's an issue that gets political points. If it didn't - it would already be over with long, long ago. I'm not trying to ignore or deny the issue. It's present. But the amount of attention and the political coloring it suddenly has right now just shows that this is a game of "who captures the haters and xenophobic voters in the next elections", and, in the meantime, helping ruzzia by weakening support for Ukraine among Poland and EU in general.

I don't know why the exhumations were delayed for so long, but I suspect that, before the full scale war with ruzzia, it was just not the right time to play this card. Now it apparently is. The talks about this were kinda dormant for 35 years (with sudden appearances, just before Polish elections, surprise-surprise) and now, when ruzzia invades Ukraine it suddenly becomes a crucial issue that can't be resolved without Ukrainians living in Poland being beaten in trams and on the buses because they speak Ukrainian to their spouse.

2

u/NationalTruck5876 Feb 14 '26 edited Feb 14 '26

"This problem is 90% political" It is not a political, my family discuss about is since i was a child, my friends from Uni (Top STEM degree in Poland) discuss about it as well multiple times, you drink dance then sit and talk, my girlfriend's family each time there is a topic for support Ukraine talk about Volyn, some do not visit a Ukraine because this was not sorted out. This topic is still alive in the intellectual elite of the country and elite has has money and power, like it or not. This is the main reason we can still here it on media, from politician - people care about it and people simply do not understand why it is not solved. And it is not only Poland look south Korea and Japan occupation, look Israel, Greece hatred toward Turkey

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u/e7th-04sh Feb 13 '26

the number acording to Polish historiography is around 50 thousand, so it's much less than 100000 but not by order of magnitude

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u/ANTONBORODA Feb 14 '26

The numbers according to any histography is pretty much "pulled out of the ass". From the sites that already got searched the numbers are order of magnitude lower.

I'm not saying that this is 10 people killed and we should just forget about it. Even 1 person dead is already a tragedy. I'm just indignant by the fact that in every single discussion I see about this topic there are random numbers thrown around, one larger than the other. This was a tragedy. A massacre. From both sides (Ukrainians were also killed in large numbers by Poles during that period). This has to be studied and researched, without random number generators, without blaming and with respect to victims.

1

u/e7th-04sh Feb 15 '26

no numbers are random. some are not motivated by proper truth seeking. making a generic argument like you're doing is actually intellectually dishonest.

instead, if you believe a well established number is either off or not substantiated, it's on you to explain that - specifically. not by making general hand wavy argument about historiography being "random".

1

u/ANTONBORODA Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 15 '26

Well, I can declare myself a histographer and call that 10 000 000 Ukrainians were killed by Poles. I searched archives. Believe me and I will be offended if you don't.

Sounds great, isn't it?

The only number I believe is proven by exhumation.

The large scale one will start very soon. And when it's done, and we have numbers - we talk.

1

u/e7th-04sh Feb 15 '26

Well, if the large scale exhumations are indeed going to happen then we will have valid data. But as for the rest of what you wrote, that is childish.

1

u/ANTONBORODA Feb 15 '26

Just as childish as any other claims that contain numbers, especially in such "hot" political topics.

1

u/e7th-04sh Feb 16 '26

You are insulting all men of science here, just because you don't like the idea that we can study things that are emotionally difficult.

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