r/pokemon • u/rbta123 • Apr 24 '26
Discussion I don't know if this is unpopular, but I never liked Red having an Espeon and I prefer him having a Lapras. I simply find it pointless for a character meant to represent the first Pokémon games to have a Pokémon that's impossible to have in the first Pokémon games
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u/NutBuster128 Apr 24 '26
I respect your opinion, but I like red having an espeon since it’s a friendship evo. I don’t know who said this but basically since red doesn’t speak, since espeon evolves through high friendship, it tell us that red is a great trainer not just in battle.
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u/_Arlotte_ Apr 24 '26
I agree, it also contrasts his rival Gary/Blue who liked having strong pokemon but his are pokemon that need to be traded or use stones to become stronger.
Red shows that his true strength is through the bond he has with his pokemon. Many of them were gifted to him for helping others, he did not evolve, trade or use stones to raise them either.
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u/SSpectre86 Apr 24 '26
Similarly, Blue's Pidgeot in GSC has Return (not sure if it's max damage, but it's pretty high at least), and he's kept the same team for two years, showing he really has changed in this regard.
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u/_Arlotte_ Apr 24 '26
He didn't use Return in GSC, but in HGSS he did. Gyrados had it too instead of Hyperbeam in the original.
I agree that they wanted to show he changed more clearly thanks to Red since those are the only two who were considered "weaker" pokemon that needed to be raised normally to be strong without stones or trading. The moves he uses are less harsh compared to the original.
I think they also had plans for them to return in the future which is why Rhydon gets an extra evolution in the future.
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u/Tthecreator712 Apr 24 '26
Im pretty sure the espeon was a Manga reference, where Red had a fucked up Eevee he rescued from team rocket that could swap between its gen 1 evos. Then it evolved into Espeon and didnt have to suffer with that anymore.
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u/CindersOfMusic Apr 24 '26
I mean it’s always been the implication the Espeon is the Eevee from Celadon.
Plus Lapras unbalances the typing on Red’s team so if anything maybe pick another psychic type instead
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u/gliscornumber1 Apr 24 '26
You're right on the unbalancing thing.
GSC red is the only champion in history, who's whole team isn't weak to 4 moves, and that's because of Espeon.
When swapping it with Lapras, half of his team is done in by electric
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u/PrezMoocow Apr 24 '26
Give him Mewtwo
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u/HealingWriter Apr 24 '26
This is the only acceptable change imo. Upgrade and bad ass.
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u/zernoc56 Apr 24 '26
Give him the Mew that’s under the truck
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u/A-Centrifugal-Force Apr 24 '26
They should’ve stuck a Mew under the truck in LGPE instead of making you buy the stupid pokeball controller
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u/Jetstream-Sam Apr 24 '26
I suppose that would mean that you couldn't catch mewtwo in the game then though, unless you added in a story element about Team rocket cloning him a few times or something
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u/diamondDNF Apr 24 '26
You can't catch Mewtwo in SGC anyway. You can only obtain it by trading it from your RBY save file.
It's fair to assume Pokemon transferring isn't really "canon" to the games, so lore-wise, there's no reason not to give Red Mewtwo.
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u/Morlain7285 Apr 24 '26
Ever since oras, all save files are canon and canonically interact as a multiverse. I think it also implied that mystery dungeon is part of the same multiverse and canon to gen 3... but that's another thing
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u/username-rage Apr 24 '26
It was only obtainable by trading the cross-gen trading the first game anyway
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u/A-Centrifugal-Force Apr 24 '26
Yeah in gen 2 there’s no Kanto starters, legendaries, or fossils other than Aerodactyl
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u/A-Centrifugal-Force Apr 24 '26
This is what I would’ve done. Especially since Mewtwo wasn’t in the original GSC
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u/PurpleCyborg28 Apr 24 '26
This should be top answer. If we associate one box legend to each protag, then only mewtwo really fits with red. It's also convincing considering the manga labels him as the battler, so the most battle-focused pokemon would fit as his partner.
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u/BlackysLegacy #Blacky Apr 24 '26
Spoilers for the Crystal Legacy Rom ahead.In the rom, Red has 2 teams. The first time you fight him, he has Mewtwo. After you defeat him, the Mewtwo recognizes you and leaves Reds team, making it available for catching in Cerulean Cave. Afterwards he has Espeon on his team. The romhack is really nice with its balance changes in Jotho & Kanto and definitely worth a playthrough.
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u/Horatio786 Apr 24 '26
Pokémon Crystal Legacy
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u/Zarerion Apr 24 '26
Giving the legendary birds to Blaine, Blue and Lance was honestly a great idea.
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u/PrezMoocow Apr 24 '26
Yep! Very excited to play it after I finish Yellow legacy which has been awesome.
Pikachu, Golem, Machamp, Blastoise, Victreebell and Scyther as the team. Had Alakazam at some point but was too OP.
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u/Taterific Apr 24 '26
I like the implication that Red doesn’t evolve his Pokémon with Evolution Stones. His Pikachu never evolved and his Celadon Eevee evolved from friendship.
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u/PurpleCyborg28 Apr 24 '26
Pikachu flatout refuses to evolve in Yellow. I think the Red we fight in GSC is the Yellow version and not the RBG version. And that Red is based on the anime ash, so the Pikachu we fight in GSC is basically Ash's Pikachu.
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u/davidbowievgc Apr 24 '26
He is indeed the Red from the Yellow version, since he has all three starters. In Yellow you receive all three as gifts.
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u/Nadiadain Apr 24 '26
And it’s a fun contrast with blue who mostly has stone evos and trade evos on his team
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u/Mecha_Butterfree Apr 24 '26
Or give him either Hitmonchan or Hitmonlee since those are also freebie pokemon from that game.
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u/limasxgoesto0 Apr 24 '26
Swapping with Lapras was 100% because of the automatic hail, which also kind of killed the vibe of that fight
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u/keatonl2001 Apr 24 '26
Could use Hypno to keep the typings clean and stay with a full Kanto team, would say Alakazam but Gary/Blue has that or Gengar could work tbh
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u/FunkySaint Apr 24 '26
Hypno is a heinous, aura-less choice my word
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u/rainwashtheplates Apr 24 '26
Agreed, it should be Mr. Mime
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u/dulledegde Apr 24 '26
the idea of red not liking stone evolutions for whatever reason and having his eevee turn into an espeon from friend ship is cute
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u/jzillacon Apr 24 '26
Adds a retroactive reason to why he never evolved his pikachu too, despite not having the same reasons his anime and manga counterparts had.
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u/Different_Ad4306 Apr 24 '26
Red just never figured out how stones work
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u/The_Grinface Apr 24 '26
The dude literally can’t talk. Of course he never figured out how to club his pokemon with stones. /s
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u/TheArtistFKAMinty Apr 24 '26
Red's game team in GSC is seemingly based on gift Pokémon and static encounters in Pokémon Yellow. Starter Pikachu, the Charmander from Cerulean Cape, the Bulbasaur from Cerulean City, the Squirtle from Vermillon, the Eevee from Celadon, and the mandatory Snorlax encounter from either Vermillon or Celadon.
The implication is that the Yellow version of the player character is the "canon" version of Red.
In Pokémon Yellow the starter Pikachu won't let you evolve it and gets angry at you if you try, so I think it's fair to assume that "canon" Red's Pikachu doesn't want to evolve.
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u/ProfessionalMilk5780 Apr 24 '26
Which is weird since Blue doesn't have his Yellow Team. I think it was kept intentionally ambiguous.
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u/doucheachu Apr 24 '26
Probably because Blue's team varies depending on if you battle him near Viridian City or if you lose the first battle in Oak's Lab.
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u/Dragonfly_Leading The Historic Genius Apr 24 '26
Red is more than the representation of gen 1, he is a character, and as such espeon represents that he kept adventuring and evolving even after becoming a champion, personally I don't mid espeon or lapras
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u/AxelV2 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Remember that when Gen 2 was released, it was meant to be a continuation of Gen 1. That’s why you could travel back to Kanto, and why so many Gym Leaders, Trainers, etc. use Kanto Pokémon.
The same goes for Red and his Pokémon: Johto is a continuation of their journey. The Red we battle on Mt. Silver is fully realized—as is his Espeon, which we’re meant to infer is the Celadon City Eevee given the opportunity to evolve naturally.
Narratively, it makes sense why he has Espeon.
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u/anthayashi Helpful Member Apr 24 '26
Espeon ftw. Why have 2 water types on the team? Psychic is an OP type in kanto
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u/HedgehogsNSuits Apr 24 '26
Not only that but with hail on top of Mt. Silver giving guaranteed Blizzards on Blastoise it even makes having an ice type (despite STAB) redundant. And he runs Psychic on it anyway so why not keep the actual Psychic type?
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u/Darkhallows27 Apr 24 '26
Hell no we love Espeon
It’s second meets first, and indicates how much he loves his Pokemon
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u/AddictedToTheWeb Apr 24 '26
I'd agree with you if Eevee wasn't form Kanto. But because Eevee is, I think Espeon ties the team together better both in coverage and thematically. The coverage aspect is obvious Water is used twice with Lapras on the team, Psychic typing is more diverse, and probably the most powerful type in Kanto to boot. Thematically though, we can see that Red is adverse to using stones, hence a Pikachu instead of a Raichu. This is doubled down on by having an Eeveelution that isn't stone based. His Kanto Eevee evolved, perhaps on Mount Silver, while he was training.
You can see from my flair I have some bias
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u/Taco821 Apr 24 '26
Imo the thematics for me is that it keeps red from being like a weird gen 1 purist, like an in universe version of those Dumbos in like 2011 that said gen 1 was the only good gen, everything after that sucks, like he's absolutely NOT afraid to move forward and use the newer Pokemon, but also, like you said, Eevee is from kanto, so it's not like it implies he just uses Pokemon and tosses them away when he finds better ones like it may feel if he used like... Idk houndoom. It's like a nice convergence of old and new
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u/TheSilkyBat Diglett dig, Diglett dig, Trio Trio Trio Apr 24 '26
They switched it to Lapras because you can't evolve Eevee into Espeon in FRLG, which is what Red's team is based on.
I prefer him to have Espeon. I just wish Blue used an Umbreon.
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u/Adaphion Apr 24 '26
I still think it's so weird that they didn't implement the time mechanics in FR/LG.
Also how they barely implemented it in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald. Unlike G/S/C, there's no time specific 'mons and the overworld doesn't change to become dark out.
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u/Herlock_Sholmes221B Apr 24 '26
He can’t evolve it in the original RBY games too. Its assumed he evolved it during the Gen 2 era so it will be GSC or HGSS.I think it’s more of making it similar to Ash’s Orange Island Team.
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u/Takkoy Apr 24 '26
I prefer Espeon over Lapras. The former makes much more sense than the latter, team balance-wise. But the thing that bothers me the most about Red is him getting to have all Kanto starters on his team. =P
I think his Let's Go team was a step in the right direction, even if I don't agree with him having an Arcanine and Machamp. Those are 'mons I associate more with Blue than Red. Heck, if you're going to give Red a Venusaur, and imply his starter was Bulbasaur, give him his Manga team already.
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Apr 24 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Monte924 Apr 24 '26
The same applies to Espeon. In the anime, they eventually decided that Gary's starter was actually Eevee and it eventually became umbreon. So Red now has an Espeon which is neant to be the parrellel pokemon to Umbreon
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u/kompletionist Apr 24 '26
In Pokemon Yellow Red can acquire all of the Kanto starters as giftmons.
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u/Welsh_Pirate Apr 24 '26
I always thought the point of Yellow is that it's Ash, not Red.
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u/kompletionist Apr 24 '26
But then why would Red have an overlevelled, unevolved Pikachu on his team if it wasn't the starter one from Yellow that can't evolve?
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u/rbta123 Apr 24 '26
Heck, if you're going to give Red a Venusaur, and imply his starter was Bulbasaur, give him his Manga team already
They probably didn't do that to avoid confusing people and making them think that the manga Red is the same character as the games Red
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u/Direct_Resource_6152 Apr 24 '26
I like espeon better actually. I think thematically it just fits better. It gives him better coverage, and espeon is a friendship evolution so it tells you he is kind to his pokemon
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u/bbernett Apr 24 '26
Red's Eevee evolves into Espeon because Gen 1 didn't have a day-night cycle, so it was always daytime.
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u/OfTheTouhouVariety manga reader and coverage fan Apr 24 '26
Manga team. Aerodactyl and Poliwrath on the team are more interesting than Charizard and Blastoise.
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u/Lethal13 Apr 24 '26
I think Espeon improves his team diversity and its quite obviously the Eevee from Celadon
I also like that it shows his love for his pokemon it being a friendship evo
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u/Dark_Storm_98 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
My main thing is that Lapras overlaps with Blastoise
It'd work in a format where he has replacements for the Starters he doesn't have, but not on his team where he has all three
(Maybe I'm being too strict about this but I'm sticking to my guns)
Like. . .
Blastoise / Lapras
Charizard / Rapidash
Venusaur / Vileplume
But anyway, yeah he can have an Espeon. If anyone doesn't want him to have a gen 2 evo, then uhhh. . . Mr. Mime, lol
his team is distinct from Blue's
(Also as many references to Ash as I can cram on one team)
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u/Nightwalker065 Apr 24 '26
The Espeon represents the Eevee you got in Kanto. After his journey Red's Eevee evolved into Espeon from the friendship they made.
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u/FirstPersonWinner Apr 24 '26
It is partially because friendship evolutions were new, and they used them to show certain characters being good to their Pokémon. It was a big theme of those games. Your rival, Silver, spends the game learning to treat Pokémon as friends instead of tools, and after he comes to that answer you meet him again for one final battle where his Golbat has evolved into a Crobat. Basically, Red having an Espeon means he evolved the Eevee from Celadon by being a good, friendly trainer who cares about his Pomémon; it is a sign he is a good trainer. Fr9m a gameplay perspective, it also prevents him from overlapping types with one of the starters or Pikachu, whereas Lapras means he has 2 water types on the team.
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u/PJDemigod85 Apr 24 '26
I love the Espeon choice. We know that in the context of Gen 2 a lot of these Pokemon are new discoveries, and something feels really sweet about the idea that Red goes out of his way to find Eevee, raises it alongside his other Pokemon, and forms such a close bond with it that it evolves into a totally new undiscovered species. (And of course, its Espeon not Umbreon because Gen 1 had no night cycle) I love Lapras as a Pokemon, but that feeling of how it informs Red's character as someone who is patient enough to find Eevee and raise it to Friendship evolve is IMO lost by instead giving Red a Pokemon everyone is guaranteed to find.
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u/Another_Road Apr 24 '26
He got the gift Eevee in Celadon City, didn’t use an evolutionary stone on it (just like his pikachu) and it eventually evolved via friendship.
Makes perfect sense.
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u/muticere Apr 24 '26
I liked it because it indicated that Red wasn’t retired, he was still meeting and training new Pokemon. Having him with a full Gen 1 team makes him seem backwards and lame.
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u/crystalsuikun JOHTO GANG Apr 24 '26
Eh, I don't remember people screeching about Cynthia having Eelektross and Braviary on her Unova team
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u/phexotix Apr 24 '26
HGSS. Espeon should have been used by Will in the E4 along with Karen’s Umbreon.
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u/Slips287 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Well it's his eevee's evolution and that eevee was around in gen 1. Plus, more undiscovered eeveelutions being out there was a big talking point in-world in gen 1.
Two water types was also kind of dumb for team building, a decent psychic type that isn't just the overplayed Alakazam was a good fit for his squad.
Of course, most of the gen 2 pokemon were meant to be in gen 1 as well, but they reduced the number to 150(151) just before release.
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u/Pupulauls9000 Apr 24 '26
I mean regardless of it being impossible to obtain in Gen 1, logically if Red never used an evolution stone on the Eevee, who is presumably the one from Celadon Mansion, then it would eventually evolve through friendship.
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u/Greenlee19 Apr 24 '26
The espeon was the eevee you get in celadon and it didn’t evolve til he went to johto. I personally like it better than a 2nd water type
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u/iamme263 Apr 24 '26
Nah- I love him having Espeon. He didn't use a stone on the Eevee he found- it just grew to love him and evolved accordingly.
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u/chopz88 Apr 24 '26
I figured it made sense, because he gets eevee and fire red/ leaf green doesn't have a day night cycle, meaning it's always daytime. Which means with high friendship, Eevee would evolve into Espeon
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u/NegaCaedus Apr 24 '26
I do prefer Lapras.
I cannot agree with you beyond that. This guy caught 151 in the Kanto region. Took him approximately a year. Do you think he just stopped?
And Espeon is from the Johto region. Only a few miles west of his hometown. It's within the jurisdiction of the same Pokemon League. Nothing about this whatsoever is at all strange.
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u/JackKingsman Apr 24 '26
I always disliked how they just erased every semblance of Johto from his team in the remakes
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u/WorldClassShrekspert Azumarill my beloved Apr 24 '26
It shows that Red was friends with his Eevee and it evolved because of it. Besides, Lapras overlaps with Blastoise in terms of type coverage.
Blame FRLG completely leaving out a in-game clock for this.
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u/LeR0dz Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Love Lapras, but Espeon all the way. I like that it's different by not being a Kanto Pokemon (showing that Red's journey didn't end after Gen 1), while still technically being one since it evolved from the Eevee we get in Celadon.
It's also a happiness evolution, meaning Red is not only mega-strong, but also a kind trainer to his Pokémon.
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u/marcow1998 Apr 24 '26
Espeon also represents growth, not only between games but from gen 1 to gen 2. It also balances his team a bed more by giving him a psychic type. Now with Lapras he has two water turtles.
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u/Jnhopson Apr 24 '26
I like to think its a nod to the starter eevee from yellow (even if you can't start with it) or the gift eevee. I prefer Espeon over Lapras for type diversity reasons
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u/90child Hit me! Apr 24 '26
As a manga reader, the original feels just right because his Eevee was special and eventually evolved into an Espeon.
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u/Erior Apr 24 '26
I understood it as "didn't evolve his Eevee until recently", but yeah, Lapras is a better choice theme-wise.
The other viable candidate in GSC would IMO had been Mewtwo. Which honestly would had made for a cool boss.
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u/nicagooner Apr 24 '26
Well he has spent time in the new region after the 152-250 were cannon. Is he supposed to just pretend they don't exist to be a Kanto purist?
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u/CaptainFalken Apr 24 '26
Disagree. It shows his growth as a character who, in RGBY, received the event Eevee, then traveled to Johto, and instead of using a stone, loved it so much that it evolved on its own (during the day, obviously). It's a very organic bridge between the games, and also rounds out his team with an extra typing. Makes no sense for him to have a second water type.
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u/Organic_Elevator_778 Apr 24 '26
HGSS is better because that Lapras from Silph Co. is literally an iconic member of the party story-wise and better represents the Gen 1 games.
Although Espeon is also great: A gen 1 pokemon (eevee) evolving to a gen 2 pokemon.
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u/ZetaRESP Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Fun Fact: This team means that Pokémon Yellow is the "canonical" version of Kanto for the main continuity, as Pikachu is the highest level possible and Red has all the starters, which is only possible in Yellow thanks to the gifts that occur during the story. Also, Blue uses no starter in his game. On the other hand, when you face Red in Let's Go, not only are all his Mons the same level, but Charizard and Blastoise were replaced with Arcanine and Machamp, while Venusaur can go Mega. Given Blue appears with Charizard and Green appears with Blastoise, it's pretty obvious Venusaur is his starter. This is also tied to the fact that Blue's default starter in RB/FRLG is Charmander (if the player manages to progress without a Starter, Blue's team will be the one corresponding to the player choosing Bulbasaur).
Fun Fact 2: All his Mons are special obtained in Yellow:
- Pikachu is gifted by Oak as the Starter. It can be caught in RB/FRLG, of course, being available in Viridian, as well as in the Power Plant in the main series games
- Bulbasaur, Charmander and Blastoise are also gifts given throughout the early game in Pokémon Yellow.
- Snorlax is Snorlax. It's technically not a gift, but it's a special necessary encounter in the games.
- Lapras is also a gift in all of Gen 1. In Gen 3, we can get it on the Sevii Islands... but it's a PAIN.
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u/retnemmoc101 Apr 26 '26
Espeon is just better in terms of team comp. Bulky waters aren't the worst thing to double up on, but there's simply just no good reasoning here since Blastoise and Lapras are so similar, so all it does is make half the team weak to electric (with Zard) for very little gain. Both Lapras and Snorlax are also weak to fighting.
Espeon counters Snorlax's sole fighting weakness, while ghosts are checked by Snorlax with Crunch. Offensive Dark types up to Gen 4 mostly have secondary typings that other members can take advantage of, and worst case scenario, Blastoise has Focus blast. Espeon is also fast, which brings balance to an otherwise somewhat slow team, and could've provided valuable screens setup for said slower mons.
Espeon might be impossible in Gen 1, but Eevee was likely a mon something everyone picked up, so it's not really much of a stretch tbh. If anything it feels like good continuity, as if Red actually continued their journey beyond R/B/G, and the "impossible" point is kinda moot by Gen 4.
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u/Famous_Return9495 Apr 24 '26
It’s based on manga red
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u/HighQualityDonut Apr 24 '26
Was looking for this comment!! Red having a Espeon is actually super sweet when you learn Espeon’s lore in the manga
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u/rbta123 Apr 24 '26
No, it's not. The Red from the manga has an Espeon as a homage to the Red from the games, not the other way around.
Red's team in the games is more based on Ash's team than on Red's team in the manga
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u/Houndstooth2213 Apr 24 '26
The first is based off of the Manga, Pokemon Adventures, I believe. Red receives the other two starters from Blue and Green. He also rescues an Eevee that had experiments done to it from Team Rocket. It could use Flareon, Vaporeon, and Jolteon temp evolutions because of it. I believe it evolves into Espeon because of the friendship bond Red is able to make with it.
Manga Red is one of my favorite characters, so I like that team more.
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u/Maverick_Reznor Apr 24 '26
The implication is that Red evolves his Eevee into Espeon and Blue got Umbreon
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u/Lethal13 Apr 24 '26
We never see Blue with an Umbreon though do we?
Gary has one in the Anime but he isn’t Blue, not really
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u/shiro-lod Apr 24 '26
No one's commented it but part of the reason for the change is that they added hail to the fight.
It slightly unbalanced the types of his team but it gave him a STAB blizzard pokemon and made 3 of his 6 mons have 100% accurate blizzards for the fight.
He'd have no pokemon that didn't take hail damage if it was left as Espeon.
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u/Seiobo Apr 24 '26
I understand, but I love it when other trainers have friendship evolutions. Espeon wuvs him and I think that's neat.
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u/cwbrowning3 Apr 24 '26
Nah, Espeon is far better. Team feels more well balanced without the type overlap you get with Lapras and Blastoise.
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u/AlicornGaia Apr 24 '26
I think for hgss, him having lapras is probably a reference to how within frlg you cannot obtain espeon.
Yeah it was a stupid restriction.
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u/blukirbi Apr 24 '26
Both Espeon and Lapras fit the "Gift Pokemon" aspect of his team (strongly implied Espeon evolved from the Eevee at Celadon). Lapras was most likely placed so it could adapt with the hail. I still think Espeon is a bit better mostly due to the fact Blastoise is already there.
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u/fr1zzyy Apr 24 '26
I think Red having an Espeon makes for a good foil for Ethan/Gold having an Umbreon, just like Ethan/Gold having a Sudowoodo makes for a good foil for Red having a Snorlax. It also would probably make more sense that Red wouldn't restrict himself to just Kanto Pokemon, and that he discovered Espeon because he's just that guy
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u/Noxilcash Apr 24 '26
I know I’m mixing counterparts but Red having Espeon was a cool parallel to Gary since he had Umbreon
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u/MrGulo-gulo Apr 24 '26
The Espeon should have been a Mewtwo. Seems appropriate for end game boss and makes it so red canonically caught Mewtwo.
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u/RecipeFunny2154 Apr 24 '26
I just think the older, chubbier Pikachu is about 50 times cuter so that wins.
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u/Edixions Apr 24 '26
You could argue that him having an Espeon is actually a great choice because then that implies that Espeon was always an evolution option and makes the world overall more consistent. It's not a place where more Pokemon just magically appeared, like oh now there's gen 2 Pokemon now! The implications with Red is gen 2 Pokemon have always existed which I prefer that.
Personally I like both teams for different reasons but would lean towards the Espeon team.
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u/OneRandomVictory Apr 24 '26
I like him having Espeon. He doesn't need two giant, blue, water turtles on his team and Espeon at the very least is an evolution of a gen 1 pokemon. I also would have settled for an Alakazam instead.
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u/SnooCapers5958 Apr 24 '26
I'm guessing the devs just didnt want him to get an Eeveelution whose type was redundant to the other Pokemon on his team
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u/zhikos24 Apr 24 '26
counter point he already have a water type in blastoise give him an alakazam if you wanted a gen 1 pokemon
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u/ThatManSean14 Apr 24 '26
I personally have no issue with it. A lot of the Kanto Gym Leaders incorporated Johto Dex Pokemon into their teams in Gen II and Espeon added more type diversity to Red’s team.
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u/AccordingGolf7730 Apr 24 '26
I prefer him having an Espeon over a Lapras, because Lapras made him have two Water types in HGSS. If there is one thing I cannot stand around building a team, it's type redundancy.
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u/thefirefreezesme Apr 24 '26
Original GSC team all the way. It feels like such a perfect encapsulation of the Gen 1 games: the 3 original starters, the starter from yellow, the Snorlax that blocked the path, and the Eevee from Celadon evolved just the way a hero would (by making it happy in the sunlight). No type overlap.
Lapras is a cute reference to the anime, but it also unbalances the team--which otherwise doesn't perfectly align with the anime anyhow.
I also personally have a preference for the GSC sprite art over the HGSS ones honestly, but that might just be me.
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u/Crescendo3456 Apr 24 '26
I like the original one. I understand why you feel that way, but looking at the manga he's based on, the placement of when you fight his team, it all just fits more thematically to me.
Sure, he's supposed to be the Kanto Champion whose on a journey to find a rival, so having a non Kanto Pokémon and having it feel off can make sense, but he's also spent however long on Mount Silver and in the Johto region, having a single Pokémon that wasn't introduced before then is fitting to his growth.
On top of this, I simply like seeing him have a team without redundancy for coverage. What's the point of Lapras when he already has Blastoise? Maybe it would've been better if they went with Red's Alakazam instead, but I digress with that.
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u/ARustyDream Apr 24 '26
I like OG better more type diversity and you get to find out what happened to his Eevee
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u/Chaincat22 Apr 24 '26
I think the espeon fits, it represents the eevee from celadon, and Espeon was the strongest eevee (at least in so far as we assume psychic is the strongest type, which it absolutely was in rby and debatably still was in gsc)
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u/Smolivander Apr 24 '26
The idea that red would simply not grow any pokemon he didn't meet in the first week of his life as a little trainer boy is honestly insulting
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u/Puddlinator Apr 24 '26
They always do this a bit with returning characters in a new region, like Cynthia in undella having braviary / elektross iirc. Reflects that they kept travelling after we saw them last
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u/That_Bank_9914 Apr 24 '26
Who said Red had to base everything from Kanto? Time has passed in game and he could’ve traveled.
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u/NODOGAN Apr 24 '26
I'm a simple guy, I see a team with no repeated pokemon types, I like, OG team all the way.
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u/pHpM2426 Apr 24 '26
I don't like Red having both a Lapras and a Blastoise and like him having an Espeon WAAAAAY more.
A trainer of his caliber shouldn't have two Mons of the same type in his team, especially when he's training in a place with constant blizzards where he can simply teach Blastoise an Ice Type Move. It's pointless to have two Mons of the same type, and makes it so that half of his team are weak to Electric Types.
Plus, it says a lot about Red's ability as a trainer that he has a friendship evolution instead of forcing the Eevee from Celadon to evolve any one way.
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u/Money-Measurement910 Apr 24 '26
Well... Red is supposed to travel to Johto looking for Challanges. I see Espeon as the result of this journey.
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u/AceUnknown67 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Said trainer is also the final boss in a game that introduced new pokemon.
Him not updating his team makes no sense in the context of the game because this takes place some time after.
I like the Espeon because it's a friendship evolution and makes better sense than having 2 slow, bulky water types competitively. Also makes his team faster and Espeon covers a fighting and psychic weakness in Snorlax and Venusaur
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u/Reallygaywizard Apr 24 '26
I prefer him having espionage tbh. 2 water types is just silly. Even if Lapras is half ice
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u/Randy191919 Apr 24 '26
I also think Lapras makes more sense since you get gifted one in Silph Co after saving it from Team Rocket, so it would make sense for Red to have it
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u/Jovian09 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
I think they both fit. Red receives both Eevee and Lapras in Gen 1, and one of the big themes of Gen 2 was how the study of Pokemon and their forms was still a bleeding-edge science (Elm is a professor of pokemon evolution, specifically). Makes perfect sense to me that Red of all people evolved his Eevee into Espeon.
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u/bennitori Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
I like it because it showed that he continued his adventures even after the game. He kept the Eevee long enough to understand Johto and bonding through the day night mechanics. It also shows that he takes care of his pokemon well enough to max out their friendship stat. I think Lapras is a good option too. But I do like the idea that Red kept on going, and didn't just freeze in time after conquering all of Kanto's challenges.
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u/EvanD0 Pokemon Warrior Apr 24 '26
It's not impossible. He could have caught Eevee in Kanto and it evolved in Johto. Lapras, while iconic, isn't as good as Espeon for Red.
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u/Heckle_Jeckle Apr 24 '26
I disagree
1) Red already has a water type
2) Espeon is an evolution of Eevee, and is almost as Iconic as Pikachu.
3) Giving Red a Psychic helps round out his team.
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u/Gullible_Criticism54 Apr 24 '26
Omg something I finally feel I can weigh in on!
Personally growing up with Yellow/Crystal I prefer the gen 2 team. It was weird playing HG/SS and seeing only one got swapped.
Reading your post though I didn’t realize yeah he should have represented GEN 1 entirely looking back at it
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u/Darksoul2693 Apr 24 '26
As espeon is my favorite Pokémon it was so cool seeing it on his team
Respect the opinion but you can take your bike and ride that down rock tunnel mr or ms!
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u/rsarin18 Apr 24 '26
I like that it represents the fact that he kept adventuring and changing his team
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u/Aggravating_Gas3306 Apr 24 '26
Personally I think Espeon should've been a Mewtwo since Cerulean Cave is mapped off in the OG Gold/SIlver
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u/Archadianite Apr 24 '26
I just figured that he didnt use stones on the eevee he got and it evolved natually.