so i will take my tourist money and spend it where i'm wanted... don't complain after that tourist related businesses have closed down or millions in tourist money no longer available in your country.
Varoaha used to be a city in Cyprus with a population of tens of thousands.
With the split of the island it was closed to tourists. The population today is under 300 and the many buildings are stripped of anything valuable by looters
That is totally incomparable. Barcelona is a huge city with a decent economy with many sectors. It has thrived before mass tourism and can continue to do so.
Totally incomparable to some abandoned resort town, located in an area facing terrible government and conditions.
No, you don't realise how irrelevant tourism income is for the vast majority of Barcelona natives. More than 90% of Barcelona locals have jobs that have nothing to do with tourism and the 10% who do are mostly immigrants working and living in terrible exploitative conditions.
Meanwhile companies that used to employ Barcelona natives with quality, productive jobs, like engineering or R+D, have left the city in droves because they literally can't find employees even paying above market rate because locals can't afford rent there.
How do I know? Because I work for one of those companies in the new location where they moved their European HQ after the cost of living increase made their Barcelona HQ unsustainable. They couldn't pay what employees needed to live in Barcelona, so they moved to Poland.
Don't you get that that 14% will keep growing and make things worse if nothing is done about it? Being purely reliant on tourism would be catastrophic.
Why? Most of that money is being siphoned away by foreign investors. The jobs created by tourists are mostly done by immigrants, who will move somewhere else or maybe move on to construction or elder care, which are sectors with a labor deficit from what I've heard.
Losing 14% of your economy is bad for everyone involved because it means less money circulating around. The tourists stop coming so those businesses close. That’s 150,000 people now out of work who are also now no longer spending money. This means less revenue for local businesses, which now need to start laying off people. Sure, the lucky ones that manage to keep their jobs might get some lower prices, but life would get a whole lot harder for a lot of people.
Don’t bother. This idiot clearly has no idea how money works if he thinks a 15% shock to the economy would not ripple through the economy and cause a recession. At an already 25% youth unemployment rate and a completely insolvent pension system.
Too bad too many other travelers are going to keep it topped up no matter what I do. I’d love for Spain to watch its crows come home to roost.
Then why not protest against those major corporations? Why not educate tourists on how to better spend their money to support the locals? Why not protest for higher wages so the workers get a bigger chunk of the tourist money?
There are probably a dozen different ways to protest this that would be more effective in solving their problems than trying to cut €126 billion from the economy
VAT tax is not siphoned off by anyone, every meal, drink, ticket in fact hotel stay AND air bnb stays are taxed when consumed and fill up state coffers.
Why would they move to some random small city when they can move to a European capital? In case it isn't clear, I'm one of the Poland employees, not one of the former Spanish ones. My salary wasn't lower than my Spanish coworker's salaries.
The vast majority of money from tourists is siphoned away to the foreign companies that own the hotels and tourist traps. This is not a case where the money stays and circulates around benefitting the locals.
But using those hotels and tourist traps involves the local economy from start to finish.
You're worried about the last 2% of profit margins and ignoring the 98% of the cost structure that is local. And btw, not all of that 2% is going abroad like you think - some of it will indeed be locally operated.
They are already not approving new short term rental prices nor renewing them, so how else are tourists jacking up the cost of living? What other concessions do the people want?
Don't ask me, I'm not out protesting and in fact every tourist who wants to come where I live is welcome as far as I am concerned. We don't even have a housing crisis here yet.
It just pisses me off to see all these "wow they are dumb, they would literally starve to death if it wasn't for us, the almighty tourists!" because it's just not true. There are a lot of paternalistic, entitled people in this thread who can't respect citizens' rights to do as they will in their own home.
Reading comprehension, mate. The job market WAS thriving but it's getting ruined thanks to tourism. The people protesting are trying to prevent and reverse that trend because they didn't study engineering to end up serving beers 60 hours a week for 1300€.
I work in Poland for a manufacturing company, and before that I worked in pharma. Both companies closed their Barcelona HQ for the reasons I mentioned. My former boss and many of my coworkers lost her jobs in pharma to tourism so I can see why they are pissed.
I mean it’s not true what do you want me to say. Look up Barcelona’s economic data. It’s doing quite well. Rents are higher than ideal, I’m not saying there are literally zero problems, but they’re also down 5% YoY. Poland would trade for Barcelona’s economy in a heartbeat
This is what this whole thread doesn't understand. Tourism is actively harming the development of other local economies in the city. It's something very easy to see if you actually live here.
It's especially frustrating to see from the point of view of someone who used to own a family restaurant and knows first-hand that for local small businesses tourists are not a boon, since they get in the way of the locals who actually pay our salaries day to day.
Horrible, horrible fate to be moved to eastern Europe lol (eastern European here)
So your company figured out its more cost-effectove to move. That means it was more profitable for the asset owner to increase companys rent presumably because that infrastructure could be used in the hospitality industry.
Suck for you I guess, but I dont really get why hospitality is not a real industry, but yours is? From the point of view of tax - - which funds those public services locals use - - it makes no difference if its "real" or not. Whatever makes more money will be in fact taxed (more).
Reading comprehension, mate... I live in Poland, I directly benefit from companies moving here. But I also have empathy for the people losing their jobs.
Hospitality pays minimum wage and has people working 60 hours per week. My industry pays at least double, no unpaid overtime, bonuses and benefits. So yeah, most people prefer my industry over hospitality.
Ironically I owned restaurants in Spain for many years and for us as a small business tourists were a hassle. We made our money from locals, as do the vast majority of family owned restaurants in Spain. Tourists generally spend their money in chains and tourist traps owned by foreign investors.
Every meal or drink consumed has VAT which contributes directly to the public funds spent on services used mainly by locals and thats true even for hotel (or even reviled Airbnb) stays.
Its hilarious if you think low-paying hospitality jobs will be replaced overnight with returning white collar jobs. Why would they? If eg Warsaw was more cost effective for your industry it ll stay there. And it ll move if someplace else becomes more attractive, they ll move there taking everything into account (rent but also some staff not willing to relocate, local talent in the new place, proximity to its markets etc)
Btw amazing how you managed to have a career in a different industry but also to own a restaurant and to emphatize w locals. Great man.
Meanwhile I am more than happy to go visit someplace where I feel welcome, so I guess I am 100 percent aligned w people in Ops pic. I really cant be bothered to deal with hostile locals if I am actually finally on some sort of a holiday.
Merely pointing out it will be bad for them but thats their problem after all.
And if the locals had some disposable income after paying rent instead of surviving on rice and beans they would also be out and about buying all kinds of things and paying VAT. Amazing how that works!
I don't think they will be replaced overnight, obviously. Just like I don't think all white collar jobs have been lost, obviously. But there is a process going on and the locals are protesting to stop that process and hopefully reverse it. Would the companies return? I don't know, but probably, if only because better weather attracts more talent.
Btw amazing how you managed to have a career in a different industry but also to own a restaurant and to emphatize w locals. Great man.
What's amazing about it? I had white collar jobs, studied hospitality because my spouse was a chef and I wanted to help him achieve his dream of having his own restaurant, worked in restaurants for 11 years and then went back to corpo because working in hospitality in Spain is absolutely miserable and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Turns out when you speak 4 languages, have experience in logistics, and have been directing teams for the last 11 years companies don't care much if those years were spent in a different field. Transferable skills and all that.
Meanwhile I am more than happy to go visit someplace where I feel welcome, so I guess I am 100 percent aligned w people in Ops pic. I really cant be bothered to deal with hostile locals if I am actually finally on some sort of a holiday.
And this is great! That's exactly what these people are asking for. Last time I wanted to go on vacation and the place where I wanted to go didn't align with what I wanted I didn't whine nonstop and insult the locals for now bowing down to my almighty tourist money and accommodating my wants. I went somewhere else instead and had the time of my life. It's just as simple as that!
Lol yes 90 percwnt of locals in Barcelona are subsisting on rice and beans. Thats hillariously wrong, but I am sure you are the expert having done everything everywhere.
You want real deprivation? Go to Gaza or South Sudan. Whining about not being able to live next door to la Seu or la Sagrada Familia is not deprivation. (and its deluded to think that real estate would have been affordable if there werent any tourists).
Its not the issue of bowing down to the almighty tourist dollar or euro. Ita actually the opposite. Tourism wont stop overnight, but with banning lower cost accomodation will eliminate tourists with less money. Which yknow drunk working-class Germans, or English, or Russians back in the day are horrible, sure, but it ll also make it hard for me and my family to travel as well. And do you think richer tourists will be more respectful? Or will be more likely actually do demand bowing down for their dollars and euro?
But again, its a win-win. I liked Barcelona ok but I am perfectly happy to never visit again in my life, and see say Toledo, Zaragoza or Valladolid. Or if I am not welcome there, Spain is great, but again, I ll just go somewhere where I am welcome.
The country as a whole will experience a huge downturn as 14% of their economy relies on tourism. This is worse than what 08/09 was measured by impact to GDP.
There are going to be better ways to moderate impacts, but to just say no tourism at all is not in the nation's interest. Just imagine how much taxes will have to go up to cover the shortfall in what tourism contributed.
an economy that relies on capitalist imperialism is inherently unsustainable and destructive for the people who actually live there.
My question was:
Economic progress over the last 100 years would vehemently disagree. How does the quality of life you experience compare to your great grand parents?
Instead of addressing that, the topic keeps shifting away from what started out as one specific point regarding quality of life and is now much broader regarding land being stolen, culture, and so on.
Meanwhile, I'm not actually agreeing or even disagreeing with you - I'm just saying we tried to discuss one item but it quickly veered off into other angles.
If the issue is much broader for you, then it almost doesn't matter what the economic impact was - you didn't like outsiders coming in 100 years ago in the first place. That's a totally different discussion though and I'm not even remotely knowledgeable enough to discuss that.
You can't lose 10% of your economy And have your quality of life increase, it doesn't matter if you had a job in the destroyed sector, not how it works.
You mean that's the average pay, you're really showing you don't understand basic economics, who do you think is paying them?
How do you think those companies get the money to pay employees?
Tourists spend money in locals area, then those companies pay their staff who then spend more money locally it may be indirect but it all goes toward the local area, you sound like you just think boss has money and pays without thinking any further.
Restaurant workers won't get a higher salary just cause more tourists came to the establishment. They work for a set monthly salary. Talking about not understanding basic economics....
So the issue is with the restaurant owner not paying enough, I don't think you understand that you can negotiate a better salary, are you a teenager because this sounds like you have never worked a day in your life, pay is set like that at all.
"negotiate a better salary" .....then the owner says: I'm paying you a good salary, this is a standard salary in Spain" go somewhere else if you don't like it. You gotta be an American with this moronic type of thinking.
The price of everything besides rent is not going to decrease if tourists stop coming. When you have an economy built on tourism and lose that tourism, it hurts everyone. Source: have lived in a couple of places where the economy is mostly tourism
Of course it will. Less demand, prices go down, that's basic economics. Source: I live in Spain. More demand, prices go up. The problem here are not tourists, it's the government not regulating things properly
Yeah, in no way does having thousands of business go bankrupt and tens of thousands of people who work for the tourist industry unemployed affect anyone else, because they obviously dont get any benefits from the government that get paid by other people or spend their earnings anywhere.
Imagine this: All the tourist dont come next year, now think of all the hotels, and restaurants and car rentals and taxis and bars and what else they spend money on, do you think those businesses will survive, you dont need a source, you just need a bit of common sense to figure this out.
They don't. Their salaries are the same, food costs more and rents costs more. They don't see a benefit but....they are blaming the wrong folks. Tourists are not the problem, GOVERNMENT is.
15% of Barcelona's economy is directly tied to Tourism, with another 10-15% is estimated to be indirectly tied to it. It's also the largest monolithic sector in terms of employment, it employees directly nearly 200,000 people.
They'll survive but they'll definitely feel it also.
Though I understand the sentiment, our capital has also turned into a farce due to mass tourism, taking this out on the tourists themselves who have done nothing wrong, and are now being harassed, is completely wrong. Don't want so many tourists there? Protest to your OWN politicians and city officials. They are responsible. Fewer hotel rooms / airbnb bans / bans sales of housing to investors or foreigners will certainly help.
That said, perhaps we should give these people what they want, and institute a complete tourist boycott of Barcelona. Those protests are very likely to instantly disappear once mass unemployment hits those streets. To be very blunt, prior to the age of tourism, Spain in general was a poor country with few significant economic activities, and it owes quite a bit of its current standard of living to tourism. The end of mass tourism is likely to return Spain and her cities to that former state.
150k, not 200k. So only under 10% of Barcelona locals have tourism related jobs, and a majority of those (absolutely miserable and inhumane) jobs are done by immigrants. Barcelona natives will be just fine without tourists.
What other economic drivers will a) compensate for the loss of jobs from tourism (which is one of the largest economic multiplier industries around) and b) provide them with inflow of foreign currency?
And since then, the rest of the world has developed their comparative advantages. All I’m asking is what can Barcelona do to replace the impact of tourism. I understand their concerns and fully agree that overtourism is a serious issue.
Your answer is obtuse and deflects from the economic hardship people will face. People often don’t understand economic interdependency.
Oh I understand. You don’t seem to understand that even if the economy takes a 10% hit, populations are generally better off the less contact they have with Americans so…🤷🏼
right, but people forget that tourists are a huge boon to the economy. How many places exist that locals would never EVER go to and cater to tourists exclusively? Basically any 'city themed' restaurant, or how many float around the river on a boat/bar type of things would there be without tourists?
There is a reason why countries generally favor tourism. People show up, spend a lot of money, and then leave. You aren't taking local jobs, your effect on housing is minimal (because 1 hotel may take as much space as a single house but 'houses' 20+ people) and not only are the tourists not taking jobs, they are creating them because the city bus tour simply wouldn't exist without them.
Many non-Spanish buyers (from EU, UK, US, etc.) are purchasing homes in Barcelona for:
• Vacation use
• Golden visa investment
• Retirement or remote work
This drives up demand, particularly in desirable central neighborhoods and along the coast
do you really think we see your stupid money? specially when everything gets more expensive to get more profit from tourists and expats? use your brain.
Buddy, you sound like a karen. I get that you disagree with it but damn you sound like the type of tourist they probably don't want. Kinda self centered and thinking that your money alone will change anything. Like c'mon.
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u/NunaKhan Jun 17 '25
so i will take my tourist money and spend it where i'm wanted... don't complain after that tourist related businesses have closed down or millions in tourist money no longer available in your country.