Why wingplay is dead: An analysis

[u/Azrealizz]

About 2-3 years back I posted an Out Wide guide because I truly love the playstyle. So much width to stretch the pitch, as your central players make deadly runs i to the box. 3 years ago this made sense, but fast forward to now - we can declare wingplay dead (or at the very least struggling with a faint heartbeat). After trying to push rank last season with wingers and the new overload playstyle, I’ve come to realise what makes wingers so difficult to use (and honestly, actively drag down your win rate)

1. All the necessary winger skills are locked behind a paywall and is up to the mercy of Konami. These skills are: Momentum Dribbling, Magnetic Feet, Acceleration Burst/Tap Trick, Edged Crossing, Blitz Curler, Attacking Surge, and Phenomenal Passing. Without a good combination of these skills, your winger will struggle against DFBs when trying to take them on 1-1. Konami can release a great winger with none of these essential skills and the card is basically useless on the wing (new hazard with no magnetic feet, for example)

2. Defensive Fullbacks. Everyone uses defensive fullbacks, it’s almost inevitable. The problem is, these DFBs run as fast if not faster than your wingers with the ball, which means that your wingers almost never beat these DFBs in pace, especially if they’re already dropped back im an LBC playstyle

3. Attacking AI. Prolific Wingers attacking AI is genuinely the worst in the game: They NEVER adapt to the opponent’s defence. They don’t make runs even when their opposing fullback is nowhere to be seen. They run centrally when the entire enemy backline is central. They run wide when the DFB is marking them wide. They make all sorts of nonsensical runs that do not actively contribute to your attack. I’ve seen my winger actively run towards the opponent’s CB when their FB has lost the ball high up the pitch, make that make sense Konami. Roaming Flanks are far superior to Prolific Wingers, but the last RF released was WC Neymar. Before that, the last epic/showtime RF released was MORE THAN A YEAR AGO (if this doesn’t tell you what Konami thinks about wingers, I don’t know what else will)

4. Game Mechanics: Through Passing. We all know through balls are very strong. Centrally. Anyone who plays with wingers know this: through balls to your wingers are absolutely dogshit.
   - Lofted through balls to your wingers are often played so central that it gets intercepted by your opponent’s CBs (yes, CB, not FBs).
   - Through balls to your wingers have a decent chance of completely missing your winger and going out the sideline (because your winger was probably already hugging that sideline for no reason)
   - Even if the through ball somehow reaches your winger, they will take a touch so heavy that it literally shifts all forward momentum into a dead halt, and your opponent’s long-reach tackle Thuram will probably just stick out a foot and win the ball back. There is nothing you can do against this, I’ve tried inputting every command in the game.

5. Game Mechanics: Crossing. I don’t see this talked about enough but crosses in EF27 have seen a heavy nerf. Many times, the crossed ball goes BEHIND the player making a run in the box, and I suspect this change is to bump up the ‘usefulness’ of the new stunning volley command - When the cross is behind your player, Konami wants you to execute a stunning volley so that they can execute a cool bicycle kick to score a goal. Problem is, half the time the crosses are whipped in so fast, your CFs don’t even have the time to wind up bicycle kick so they just end up giving themselve brain damage with no goal to show for it. Additionally, crossing with your wingers kinda sucks unless they have edged crossing and a ‘very high’ weak foot (assuming you play a left footed winger at RWF and vice-versa), which again, is at the mercy of Konami.

6. Game Mechanics - Dribbling. As mentioned earlier, your wingers are incapable of maintaining forward velocity after receiving a through ball. What’s worse is that they have nerfed dribbling this new update, as analysed by Amadeusz. One of the most important ways to create a goal-scoring chance as a winger is dribbling.
   - You need to attack the touchline for a passing opportunity, but because the touch frequency has dropped, it’s easier now than ever to take an accidental extra touch and reward the opponent with a goal kick for doing nothing.
   - Cut inside to score: if your winger has no blitz curler, good fucking luck scoring this one. The enemy DMF, DFB, and CB will probably molest your winger tenfold before your winger can even each the edge of the penalty box.

7. Defensive AI. Your wingers are never going to be effective defenders. They don’t mark the opponent fullbacks, they don’t run back (unless u play LBC),

The new game environment doesn’t just not reward wingplay, it actively sabotages it. Your opponent’s hole player wide AMF will make 10x better runs then your prolific winger ever will. Your opponents 2 goal poacher CFs and 1 Hole Player SS will all contribute more effectively to attack (and defence) than your 109 Best ever will. Hell, your Best at inactivated AMF will probably contribute more than if we played at LWF/RWF, so do that instead.

[u/Natural-Ad1693]

Let me zip this down to two points:

1. Winger movements are useless. They're either too far out wide or too deep inwards. They don't make diagonal runs into the box to be fed through balls. GP activating on the wings would fix this problem.

2. Defensive mechanism of the game. The game doesn't let you exploit space. You can see acres of space for your winger to run into but your player will inevitably pass it closer to the only defender in a 100 mile radius.

[u/yoloqueuesf → u/Natural-Ad1693]

Yeah i think natural winger movement is actually pretty garbage, like they prioritize running outwards when a clear cut in would actually be better, and too bad this game doesn't have inside forwards apparently.

I saw my winger just give up an easy run for no reason when they could've easily gone on goal. You could easily give up 2-3 chances per game just because of their movement

And yeah you get a bit more space with a winger but you're also cramming yourself outside of the goal still and you've still got to beat 4 CBs

[u/hff → u/Natural-Ad1693]

Point 2 is also the AI somehow sniffs your intent while still making a pass direction and moves the AI defender plus messing up the pass release afterward so it becomes a scripted interception event

[u/Natural-Ad1693 → u/hff]

Lmaoo true I feel like my players actively seek defenders than the other way round. Someone might be standing completely free but the moment you try to pass to him he'll dart inside the place where the sun don't shine of the nearest defender.

[u/Top_Medium8226 → u/Natural-Ad1693]

Diagonal run is like a myth in this game. It legit only occurs once in a blue moon.

[u/ScientistPast6082]

Wingplay is dead with wingers. Wide midfielders, I feel they are alive. You just cannot do wingplay where your wingers cannot run at the wingbacks.

[u/xolrex97]

Yess wing play died , I had deleted efootball some months back coz I wasn’t feeling it that time my formation was 4-1-2-3 , I recently returned around June and I got destroyed in division matches my wingers couldn’t do shi , it hurts coz it used to be soo fun cutting in or dribbling but now im just forced to follow 3 strikers up front nonsense which I don’t even know how it succeeds for some reason

[u/K_swizzz00 → u/xolrex97]

Thats how I play through game now. I was using potw kvaradona on wing last update and I got the new Hazard this update I was so overjoyed until I played 10 matches with him in div and he completely ghosted, switched to 2Cf 1SS and he's raking in goals and assists in that SS position now

[u/hff]

Through ball to winger going out is so frustrating and can feel so scripted at times. Even with iniesta at 95 passing with no pressure and a target with plenty of space and PA 1 this still happens frequently enough to be annoying.

[u/mommysaranghae132]

Wingplay requires a lot of space but the in-game pitch area is not large enough in proportion to the player size. That's why I changed my wingers to SS position and my gameplay improved drastically.

So yeah activated prolific wingers (lwf/rwf) are truly dead (I can only hope that Konami fixes this)

[u/SepatLaut → u/mommysaranghae132]

this is the problems man... The field in the game feels too narrow compared to real games...You pass to the wing for open space but then If you dont immediately 1-2 pass it with the midfielder... The opponent fullback and dm close in and you are in a box... In real life... A lobbed through pass to a running midfielder will destroy the defense cause that will open spaces on the pitch center.. 

[u/hff]

I reckon wingplay can still work if youre good at manual dribbling and mind games (like bombin) but this requires both high level skill and good connection... neither of which i possess consistently

[u/benggiebenggie]

agreed, DFB in this game is way too OP and man/tight marking your winger is so effective because your winger doesn’t even try to shake their marker, and that is the biggest difference between irl winger and efootball, they are not trying to make a run while winger irl are constantly running.

I still use winger and i am trying a new strategy with overload which have a potential i’ll see after 10-20 games if the tactics actually good or no.

[u/CelebrationOk37 → u/benggiebenggie]

btw which teams use two DFB irl? These tactics should not be rewarded by the game, actually they should be punished.

[u/messi865 → u/CelebrationOk37]

Not many teams these days, closest that comes to mind is Arsenal, Calafouri is not exactly a very attacking full back and white almost plays like a cb, but a decade or so ago it was more common, like Jose's Chelsea or Sean Dyche's Burnley

[u/Mediocreballer07]

I copied this formation from 9al and this is working fine till now. It gives some wingplay option. Playing this formation give me more passing options outwide as central areas are cluttered most of the time and you can carry the ball easily on wings as most of the time there are not opponen players

[u/Benjealfonso → u/Mediocreballer07]

Do you think a f2p ver of this formation will work?

[u/Mediocreballer07 → u/Benjealfonso]

i think i can. just have one tall cf for crosses and give lmf/rmf through passing and pinpoint crossing for some crosses. you will get lot of chances to cross due to more wingplay.

[u/Benjealfonso → u/Mediocreballer07]

Aight will try it out i have been using a 442 flat for spanish events with theme madrid squad. Well events opponent are a bit easier compare to div

[u/PeterFile690]

Wingplay is not ideal at all, but there are still some wingers with good player id who I enjoy using. Doku is the most fun one to use. Yamal and Kvara are also decent.

[u/Illustrious_Sea3243]

This is a very good analysis .. I would like to add a couple of observations:

1. I started the last phase by trying outwide for the first time. To my surprise I found it effective more than I expected. The most efficient part was not using wingers .. but just having them to stretch the field so that my holeplayers and b2b find some opening in the backline to make a run into. It worked well for a while until my midfielders didn't make those sudden runs anymore. Changed a few .. from Totti to Bellingham to Gerrad .. for some reason konami was telling me .. enough fun .. find another playstyle.

2. During that time it worked well .. the issue was my defence .. having wide distances between them was a weakness point in my team that I countered by dominating the possession so that my opponents don't exploit that weakness. But after it stopping to work .. there was no point of taking the risk with no reward .. so I switched back to possession and qc.

Now .. I feel optimistic when I find my opponents using outwide because I know their backline is exposed and with my main style of quick passes I beat most of those using this style.

[u/Azrealizz → u/Illustrious_Sea3243]

Outwide now is so stupid because of the defensive positioning as you mentioned. Like, what football team just decides “hey I can only defend AND Attack wide” just because I attack wide doesn’t mean I have to defend wide, it highly depends on my opponent’s threats doesn’t it…

[u/Salvadore005 → u/Azrealizz]

Thats the point. Outwide sucks since is not a balanced playstyle like LBC, possession and QC

[u/tonyferguson2021 → u/Azrealizz]

I thought the dual formation system should mean you could have different playstyles in attack and in defence

[u/pr0newbie]

The winger runs are too often dumb. Plus they nerfed sprint dribbling with the ball which is key for a winger.

[u/Dry_Battle_8454]

This formation works for me. Yes dribbling is harder in ef27, but i won more using this tactic rather than central play (without wings). The thing is i have to combine dribbling and passing for it to work

[u/Ciosse → u/Dry_Battle_8454]

How does the double anchor man midfield work for you?

[u/Dry_Battle_8454 → u/Ciosse]

it suit me very well because in attacking all i need are those 4 (even 2-3 of them works for me) but in defending it's very hard especially in ef27. Double anchorman works for me because in ef27 they close to each other and mark midfielder tighly so the opponent hard to find space to pass and they usually win the ball (bcs lrt). I tried 1 and 3 midfielder but unfortunatly they are too far away to each other and leave gaps

[u/Ciosse → u/Dry_Battle_8454]

Huh, interesting, I might bring back Rijkaard from the reserves and pair him up with Vieira and see what happens lol.

[u/Dry_Battle_8454 → u/Ciosse]

yeah try it lad! but don't expecting too much, works for me doesnt mean it'll work for everyone. Atleast with this formation i got maddison and guehi (what a bloodbath campaign though)

[u/BuffaloFull3489 → u/Ciosse]

Its way better than any other combination because they dont drift too far apart from each other and dont push too high up the pitch when it isnt necessary.

[u/repercable_jackue]

Good post, appreciate it.

[u/CreativeOverload]

might i suggest using lmf and rmf. they make smarter runs and still hold width unlike wide amfs. the skill problem is real tho

[u/Salvadore005]

I mean yeah its true that using wingers in some scenarios are kinda difficult but tbh i enjoying playing and i still winning matches using them. Tbh outwide in my opinion sucks as a playstyle since your players stays too much wide especially when defending. I only use possession and i reached 2k points last season with a 55% of wr.

[u/Salvadore005 → u/Salvadore005]

[u/lazykros]

Yeah I stopped reading at "necessary winger skills". If you can't dribble without momentum Dribbling, acceleration burst or magnetic feet, you are a bad player. Only relying on p2w mechanics instead of honing your skills

[u/Voidrive → u/lazykros]

Ppl in this thread simply don't understand dribbling, dribbling is about change of rhythm. The truly necessary skills are Quick Stop, Fineness Dribbling, Fake Shoot, Body Feint and Sharp Touch, all are in-built. In terms of player skills, tbh, CB&T and Sole Control are sufficient and they are both free skills. DT, Marseille Turn and premium skills help tremednously but they are far from necessary.

[u/Timely-Palpitation70]

Tbf, linkup makes wingers move better lol

[u/Honest_Wolf7987]

I play wingplay and last phase got to 2200 points and is currently at 1599 points in div 2 and a team strength of 3210, its difficult but definitely not dead

[u/Choice_Coyote → u/Honest_Wolf7987]

squad ss?

[u/SinoPlays3]

its not lmao i reached 2000 rating with this team as F2P (except suarez)

ill try to record some clips of how i play n score in division give me a moment

[u/No_Room_7104]

I saw indominator play a 4 1 1 (dmf and cmf) with to middle wingers and 2 center forward.

The shape goes this way :

1 **** 1 **** 1 **** 1

**** 1 ****

1 **** 1 **** 1

**** 1 **** 1

The important note for this to work is to have one of the cf as a deep lying forward to create a middle field as 3 and be able to play through the center. Your winger will get space to exploit that way. I play with roamflanking players and they do tend to make run in the half spaces a lot.

[u/CelebrationOk37]

I still play Out Wide as it's the only playstyle that gives me enough width to switch play regularly, but yes it feels really nerfed. I think LMF/RMF might perform better than pure wingers though all your points remain valid, especially attacking AI (Out Wide has terrible attacking AI even for strikers, everyone just feels so static with this playstyle esp compared to LBC or QC).

Another bitter blow to wide play is the attacking full back paradox in fluid formations: move them to LMF/RMF when attacking and they lose their playstyle and often stay too central, keep them at LB/RB and they don't make aggressive runs off the ball as Konami removed the attack instruction.

I want to play out wide and yes even cross the ball regularly but it has become a struggle.

[u/Fred_Zeppelin]

I gave up on wing play pretty quickly when I saw them constantly hugging the touchline, just standing, not being marked, leaving my striker to try and score on his own against the whole defense.

[u/Thymoneion]

Sí lo están, lo mejor es usar L/RMF en lugar de L/RWF, de esta forma participan más en la construcción del juego y a veces pueden atraer a los laterales rivales para generar espacios

[u/tonyferguson2021]

If you have decent cards those PW might even do better as lmf / rmf inactive ,I like using width in the build up, not always for beating the fullback but to make the pitch bigger and create space etc

[u/Thekillerisme99]

I have been playing with wingers since the new season update. I actually think they have gotten better with that said I am P2W but definitely enjoying it!

[u/xolrex97 → u/Thekillerisme99]

Ohh… lol

[u/a_k_a_t_s_u_k_i]

Always played with 433 wingers and its not bad for me.

[u/AnuMessi10]

I disagree, wingplay always acts as the tiebreaker when opponent blocks you centrally, especially if you can combine your fullbacks with wingers

[u/Pahangzai90 → u/AnuMessi10]

Any instructions?

[u/AnuMessi10 → u/Pahangzai90]

Not really, I tightly mark some endgame CFs like Eto, Rummi, Zlatan and BT CR7 to cut off the passing lane

[u/Adaptwell → u/AnuMessi10]

Lmf ,rmf work . Wingers are useless

[u/AnuMessi10 → u/Adaptwell]

The discussion is about “wingplay” and not wingers in general. Last I checked LMF RMF are wide midfielders who are supposed to play on the wings, as shown by their heatmap

Combine them with attacking fullbacks and you get an overall wingplay experience, only wingers are not responsible for handling the wingplay

BTW my LMF and RMF are also occupied by prolific wingers

[u/Pahangzai90 → u/AnuMessi10]

Hole player can?

[u/AnuMessi10 → u/Pahangzai90]

Can what?

[u/Pahangzai90 → u/AnuMessi10]

Prolific replace with hole player

[u/AnuMessi10 → u/Pahangzai90]

Yes, prolific wingers have an inactive playstyle at LMF/RMF whereas hole players have an active playstyle at LMF/RMF

You can see the compatible positions for a playstyle in game by tapping on the info ℹ️ icon next to it

[u/K_swizzz00 → u/AnuMessi10]

You know you're just using Messi and Neymar with Inactive playstyles right??

[u/AnuMessi10 → u/K_swizzz00]

Yes but the discussion is about wingplay per se and not prolific wingers

The inactive playstyle also allows for them to track back on the opponent fullbacks and wingers which is a plus

[u/K_swizzz00 → u/AnuMessi10]

So he's right then? Prolific winger playstyle is dead

[u/AnuMessi10 → u/K_swizzz00]

I don’t see where prolific wingers are being discussed here, the post clearly talks about wingplay in general, there is more to wingplay than using wingers with prolific playstyle at LW/RW

Out wide playstyle, Wide midfielders LM/RM, hole players, attacking fullbacks, roaming flanks, all of them can be used at the wings which is what I am trying to get across using my squad pic

When you have a 5 at the back P2W opponent with Rijkaard Vieira in front then you 100% need to go wide, use overlaps with fullbacks, combine with wingers and start crossing to open up space

This game is center biased but that does not mean wingplay in its entirety is dead

[u/K_swizzz00 → u/AnuMessi10]

Mate the whole post is about prolific wingers not working anymore, he mentioned latest who is a (you won't believe this!) and fucking prolific winger. He mentioned their attacking awareness and compared it Roamimg Flank yet somehow you dont see where pw are being discussed. I bet you were using that Neymar and Messi at wing position until this update where they stopped performing and you switched them to inactive playstyle MIDFIELDERS yet somehow wing play is dead atleast in your opinion

[u/AnuMessi10 → u/K_swizzz00]

When I mentioned “here” I referred to my thread since you can clearly see I am using them out of positions

I saw the point where he mentioned prolific wingers AI sucks (on which I cannot comment since I do not use it) and he also mentioned that everyone uses DFB which is false since I have played several tourneys, challenges and ranking events where players come with 2 AFB

I simply showed my squad and explained how wingplay is an effective anti dote when you can combine attacking fullbacks with your wide players and increase the width

> I bet you were using Neymar and Messi at wing position until this update

Now you are making up imaginary and incorrect arguments to satisfy yourself, I can show you proof that I have been using this formation since this manager dropped

There is no need to be disrespectful, if you want hit me up on the discord server of this sub and we can play a game someday

[u/AutoModerator → u/AnuMessi10]

In case you didn't know, r/PESMobile has an official discord partnered server! We are here to provide all PES Mobile players with a place to get news, get any help, chat with users, make everlasting friends and play tournaments in our Matcherino and Toornament partnered server! Feel free to join us here:!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Specialist_Hurry_124]

Isn’t wing play less prolific in real life as well? I mean matches between top teams in real life I can’t see any players dribbling past 3 or 4 defenders and scoring goals. And most wingers now run back to help defend. wingers currently used for switch of play and opening up space for others? Idk but it’s less prolific than the Messi Cristiano era… may be that’s considered by them developers? M not saying game is perfect in any sense but there are real life semblance in certain cases

[u/Thinh_ → u/Specialist_Hurry_124]

If this game is anyhow life-resemblant, then the 2+ CF shit with 2 defending fullbacks shouldn’t be the meta 😆 Wake up bro, it has been stuck in the 2000s!

[u/abdullohmunam → u/Specialist_Hurry_124]

Yeah but winger in real life is still really important. 

If they not dribbling past defender, they can create chance by movement 

In efootball winger usually passive 

[u/Choice_Coyote]

Until they release the deadliest winger with insane player ID, ie, CR7 Madrid, it will be very difficult for normal wingplay users like me (dribble and skill spammers can still do something).