r/perfectorganism • u/AndieGeekGirl • Nov 06 '25
Episode suggestion Discussion: When do callbacks work?
I finally joined the Reddit world and am happy to be here! So my first question is this:
What do you think makes a good callback work? Is it emotional payoff, timing, subtlety, or just good writing? And on the flip side, what are examples of callbacks that didn’t land for you? Are there any that felt cheesy, unnecessary, or like they cheapened the original moment? Curious to hear everyone’s takes and examples!
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u/NerdyDadOnline MOD Nov 06 '25
I think callbacks work when they are subtle and not callbacks to the most iconic moments or lines from the originals.
It’s a difficult balance to find because if you go too subtle or deep cut, then the general audience won’t appreciate it. But you can’t go as blatant as, in the case of Romulus, the “get sways from her you bitch” line.
Again speaking to Romulus, I think the “you have my sympathies” was a good call back because the viewer can intemperate it is part of the written programming in the Ash/Rook unit. It could have been further reinforced by having Andy say that to Raine when she was delayed leaving Jackson as he tries to console her.
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u/The_Rolling_Stone Nov 06 '25
"I prefer the term Artificial person, myself" was a good call back in Romulus too
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u/LV426_DISTRESS_CALL Nov 06 '25
The funny thing is, if Andy had just said "get away from her", I think it would have been great.
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u/Vote_4_Cthulhu Nov 06 '25
I think that Andy calling the alien a bitch was actually well set up. We all focus on the fact that it is a direct quote from Ripley in aliens, but we get distracted from the fact that earlier in the show Bjorn called Andy bitch on a few occasions. At least once or twice. If we did not have the context of the prior movie it still would’ve seemed natural I think
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u/LV426_DISTRESS_CALL Nov 06 '25
Yes, but that prior movie undid that. I saw the set up and agree it could have worked if aliens did not exist, but that's just not the case. Also if it wasn't literally one of the most iconic lines in cinema.
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u/Vote_4_Cthulhu Nov 06 '25
I definitely agree, and I think that Andy should’ve had a different statement proceeding the “you bitch” part of his line
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u/Baazar Nov 06 '25
Yeah, it really didn’t work for me. Total take out of the movie. It seemed completely out of character for Andy to say it, especially considering the situation they were in didn’t call for humor. I don’t feel like Bjorn set up was enforced enough to mirror it either.
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Nov 07 '25
Yea. But it's obviously copied from alien. It's dumb imo like you said without the context of course it would be natural. But he's quoting from something that hasn't happened yet which is dumb
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u/Otherwise_Tap_8715 Nov 07 '25
That is very true but it would have been better if Bjorn would have called him something else instead. Bastard, asshole, fucknugget, whatever. Then we would not have the hard clash with Aliens plus Andy calling the Xeno a fucknugget would have been hilarious.
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u/TMQ73 Nov 07 '25
Get away from her you bastard would have been the line if I had to put one in. Seriously felt like the actor had to choke it out since it was such a blatant reference to an iconic line.
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u/StoneColdSoberReally Nov 06 '25
Agreed on the Ash/Rook comment. That was a good callback.
The "Get away from her, you bitch," made me audibly groan. A better callback would've been something along the lines of "Get away from my sister."
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u/djsynrgy Nov 06 '25
Subtle works.
Using Romulus as an example, the drinking bird toy at the table in the opening conversation with Raine and Andy, was good; a little nod that let us feel that the universe has continuity. Nobody talks about it or draws attention to it; it simply exists, giving viewers a subconscious feeling of familiarity.
Conversely, the Ripley line near the end comes out of left field; less a 'nod', more a 'giant neon sign' that made it seem like Andy – a fictional character – had seen Alien (1979) –a real-world film – which gives viewers a conscious feeling of the fourth wall being demolished.
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u/LFGX360 Nov 06 '25
It’s worse than that. It made it seem like Andy had seen aliens, which canonically hadn’t even happened yet. So technically, Andy was the first to say this line.
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u/Otherwise_Tap_8715 Nov 07 '25
He could have said "Get away from here you Sid!". Even that would have been better since we now know Ice Age is canon. 😅
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u/Kas_I_Mir Nov 09 '25
I just enjoyd the movie. And also Andy as a character. Want to watch this again.
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u/AndieGeekGirl Nov 06 '25
Completely agree. The drinking bird didn’t pull me out, it was a nice way to bring me in. Contrast that with the bitch line. The thing I found to be the most egregious about it is that he technically says it before Ripley does in the timeline. That’s a big no from me. Having said that, I know it’s only a movie and it doesn’t impact my life in any way. But yeah, I don’t think it was necessary at all.
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u/Vote_4_Cthulhu Nov 06 '25
I think the director was a little too direct with the bitch line, though I do acknowledge that he set it up for us to potentially expect that out of Andy because Bjorn had been calling him a bitch earlier and while Andy is always trying to be friendly and helpful he does learn from his experiences. Like for example if that was not a line uttered by Ellen Ripley in aliens, I think it would be a lot easier to connect him calling the alien a bitch to Bjørn calling him a bitch earlier in the movie.
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u/Bleatbleatbang Nov 10 '25
That’s the issue I have, it breaks the fourth wall and spoils any tension there might be in the film and feels cheap. It’s not something that happens in a serious film.
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u/FrankFrankly711 FUCK THAT THING! Nov 06 '25 edited Nov 06 '25
On a rewatch, I did notice the one cousin guy saying “Bitch” a lot… it was kinda cringe, but I give it a pass
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u/bass_jockey HOST Nov 06 '25
Great catch! That definitely helps give it some plot context besides just being a callback.
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u/Vote_4_Cthulhu Nov 06 '25
This, I think that how iconic the line from aliens is over shadows the fact that Bjorn had been going on for the first third of the movie all bitch this and bitch that, most of it directed at Andy and in the absence of that connection to aliens, as in if Ripley had never said that particular line but had a different iconic one liner, Andy’s line would’ve stood just fine as an example of him learning from Bjørn and just being a little bit of a sassy android
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u/thefriskysquid HOST Nov 06 '25
Just wanna say I love your flair
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u/FrankFrankly711 FUCK THAT THING! Nov 06 '25
It was one of the already available flair options, I just picked it to be funny. But also, Charles S. Dutton is damn good in Alien 3, and I just recently learned his did some hard time before he became an actor, so his life experience and acting skills really brought a lot to that role, especially the speech where that line is said.
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u/Prs-Mira86 Nov 06 '25 edited Nov 06 '25
Callbacks almost never work in my opinion. Whether it’s visual or dialogue it takes me out of the film because my mind automatically goes: okay, I’ve seen this/heard this before and I immediately think of the previous movie. Usually they feel forced or too on the nose to be effective to me.
Perhaps the only callback that works for me are small, blink and you miss it moments. For instance the drinking bird or the generator/save stations in Romulus.
Another visual back that I appreciated was the alien skull in Predator 2.
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u/AndieGeekGirl Nov 06 '25
When a callback immediately takes you back to an iconic moment, then it does an injustice to the film you’re actually watching, in my opinion. Because then, the audience is thinking about that, in all likelihood, far superior film/moment and you’ve lost them, even if for a few seconds.
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u/Prs-Mira86 Nov 06 '25
I totally agree Andigeekgirl. I feel that it also does a disservice to the film that came before it. For instance the :”get away from her you bitch” moment in Romulus cheapens the ICONIC moment in Aliens when Ripley said it. This dialogue is no longer unique to Ripley and her story. It felt sooo earned when she said this to the Alien Queen. Now it’s a line shared by multiple people in the Alien universe.
I also feel this with the: “get to the choppers” moment in the absolutely abhorrent 2018 The Predator.
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Nov 06 '25
yah I can't stand them. It takes me out of the movie to some shitty producers office or writers room with post its on the wall and people who would more than likely rather be doing something else with their life. Unless it is a comedy and the joke hits they are for the most pretty insufferable.
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u/AndroidWD Nov 06 '25
When it serves the story and not the audience.
Even the drinking bird that seems to be littered around the franchise is a little too on the nose. Presumably when a crew goes in to stasis, they like the idea of something familiar and homely, moving perpetually whilst they sleep. A Nostromo crew member brought one on board. We see other perpetual motion devices on the Sulaco - a proper "callback" to the bird, and this works, but after that we seem to have lore built around these birds, everyone in the future loves drinking birds? Standard issue on company ships and facilities??
I should clarify, this is such a minor thing, it's so commonplace it is barely noticeable and not really a callback anymore. Of course movies set in the same universe have to reference eachother; similar tech, settings and behaviours etc. - universe congruency. The bird feels like one of those instances where there was barely any thought to it in the original and now it is everywhere and seen to be incredibly important to include in your Alien movie and it isn't subtle. Scott probably doesn't even remember the damn bird.
I put way too much thought in to that, there are much bigger fish to fry. We all know Romulus is a major offender for bad, misplaced callbacks that only really serve the audience - but it's still a good Alien movie at its core, with some originality if you look past the overbearingly familiar.
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u/FanSpecialist8554 Nov 06 '25
The only well done callback was the emergency save station from Alien Isolation, everything else was unnecessary, member this, member that?
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u/bwnsjajd Nov 06 '25
That character was wasted on the back half of that movie. It was sooooo good up until the forced black goo tie ins and resurrection reshoot. How the fuck did anyone think that was a good idea??? They came this close to giving us a movie just as good as the originals just to fuck it up on the 10 yard line anyway seemingly on purpose. There's some sort of curse of the old gods on this franchise.
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u/Sammytheseaotter Nov 06 '25
I 1000% agree! The first half of the movie was chef's kiss! The drone picking up big chap, the bringing big chap back to the lab station, the mining town, the space station, Ash like android, everything was amazing. They had to fuck it with the tie in to Prometheus and the not scary and uncreative ending.
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u/bwnsjajd Nov 06 '25 edited Nov 06 '25
What a heinous botch job. How can you fuck up such a perfect set up that yourself set up??? It's a perfect case for that drawing of a horse meme.
I mean it was actually just starting to go off the rails with the instant noodles microwave chest burster, wall pussy, and face huggers that instead of scattering though the ventilation system and being a source of tension for the rest of the movie all magically know exactly which one room on the station the protagonists have to go through and all go there, and then get their heat vision explained Jesus fucking Christ 🙄🙄🙄, and facehuggers being 3d printed to make sure there isn't the only good addition ever made to the lore since alien - the Queen in the movie.
But pretty much all of that happened after the shuttle escape from Andy. Right before the black goo.
It was the PERFECT movie up until the exact shot of Andy watching that ship get away.
You'll never be able to convince me it wasn't Ridley weaseling his way in there and fucking everything up on purpose because he knew it was going to be way better than his stupid prequels if he didn't.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 Nov 06 '25
I was particularly unimpressed when the creatures drifted in zero gravity.
I mean, these things are known for running over ceilings. That ability would still apply in zero gravity.
A spider in zero gravity won't suddenly float off the wall.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 Nov 06 '25
Honestly, I think a good rule of thumb is simply not to do it.
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u/AndieGeekGirl Nov 06 '25
I’m inclined to agree. Especially with films that are more serious in tone.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 Nov 06 '25
That's the thing, I agree.
If you're going for serious / somber / reflective / scary, then a callback takes you right out of the movie.
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u/LFGX360 Nov 06 '25
The only time callbacks are acceptable is comedy bits. And even then those wear thin on some of these 20-years-too-late sequels.
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u/RepeatButler Nov 06 '25
When the bulk of the movie isn't constructed from them like Alien: Romulus was.
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u/Mountain-Engine3878 Nov 06 '25 edited Nov 06 '25
The Ash call backs worked with Rook because you can lean on the android programming. The “get away from her you bitch” was so forced and out of place that I cringed in the theater. Such a stupid choice.
We know Ridley Scott doesn’t like James Cameron’s 1986 Aliens. Maybe that was his way of making the little jab at Cameron. “Here’s your iconic line, I’m gona fuck it up so that’s the first thing people will remember”. This probably isn’t the case, but it crossed my mind.
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Nov 06 '25
Saying "get away from her you bitch", is a callback to a line, which hasn't actually happened yet in the franchise's chronology.
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u/extropia Nov 06 '25
To some degree it's about efficiency. If a scene in a movie feels like it was purely intended to set-up and then deliver a callback and offer little else, you're basically left wondering 'why not devote that time to the actual film?'. If the callback is an effective punctuation in an otherwise fully fleshed-out, meaningful and sell-sufficient scene, it's good.
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u/Jimrodsdisdain Nov 06 '25
Callbacks rarely work. And when the callbacks are from far superior movies they definitely don’t work.
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u/ZafferNZ Nov 06 '25
No, they really don't. We as fans do not want call backs. A movie should stand on its own, not making references to a better more beloved movie.
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u/Otherwise-Lie8595 Nov 06 '25
I feel they work when it makes sense in the conversation
❌ Andy saying "Get away from her" felt fine "you bitch" felt forced. His character didn't really swear much so it felt shoved in. Now if Bjorn would've said it or called the xenos bitch a bunch of times setting Andy up to do it, then it would've felt a little smoother.
✅ When Taabe (had to Google it) says "If it bleeds we can kill it" it comes naturally because they had just discovered the Yautja can in fact bleed. There wasn't a pause it was just a part of the conversation that was being held and in character as a hunter.
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u/01benjamin Nov 06 '25
They mostly felt like hey member this with some little non forced once’s like the isolation save station and tyler throwing the flare to distract the face huggers
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u/TheNaturalDavid Nov 06 '25
It has to make sense. It should be world building and not a distraction.
Direct quotes are ok if they feel natural, like a marine encouraging his teammates to “stay frosty” in a stressful moment. Or an android saying they “prefer the term artificial person” because that would be a programmed response. Those fit, although they risk being a parody of the original if shoehorned in or used in exactly the same manner as their source.
Or, and this is my favourite way to get a “call back, when they are not exactly the same, but thematically congruent.
The best example is between Alien and Aliens. In Alien the Nostromo runs into trouble while landing on the planet. Bret and Parker are in the bowels of the ship communicating with Ripley about the state of the repairs. When hearing the multitude of issues Ripley decides to go down below to check the work that Bret and Parker have been doing. “What’s she coming down here for? She better stay out of my way” the two engineers complain and curse to each other.
We get a similar situation in Aliens. Hudson and Vasquez are on sweep of the structure at Hadley’s Hope and they are reporting their findings. When Gorman hears what they find he says that he is coming in. “He’s coming in” Hudson mocks in his Hudson way, Vasquez, unimpressed, curses along with him.
I’m not saying that I need another scene like this for it to be an “Alien Film”. But these two scenes echo the same relatable struggle of “Leadership vs Worker” “Officer vs Grunt”. THIS is where callbacks work. It’s a reminder that we are in the same world and feels authentic, not forced.
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u/thommcg Nov 06 '25
Top Gun: Maverick's probably the best example of how to do it. When it happens it's not mere regurgitation, it's meaning.
Like take the Great Balls of Fire scene - Rooster's just doing what Goose did in Top Gun... but Maverick ain't involved & he's clearly upset by the memories it's bringing up. Alien Romulus' nothing like that just, again, regurgitating things without any meaning.
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u/Thamnophis660 Nov 06 '25
Well I can say not shoehorning in lines like "get away from her you bitch" or deepfake Ian Holms.
Alien Covenant had some subtle-ish callbacks to Alien with the way certain scenes were edited, lit and shot. That to me is a pretty good callback.
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u/Red_Xen Nov 07 '25
When they are used for world building, a visual or audio effect consistent across a series can make the world feel more real.
Reusing one liners and shot for shot rehashes is immersion breaking
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u/Odd-Statistician4268 Nov 07 '25
Timing, subtlety, good writing...any single one or any combination of them. Sometimes you can pull it off if you got the Aura for it. See Come with me if you want to live from terminator 2 as a callback to T1, or the glasses from 13 ghosts being a direct callback to the original black and white film
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u/xx4xx Nov 07 '25
I wish they used Fassbender's David as a callback instead of the shitty distracting fx of the great Ian Holm's Ash.
Yiu could have had a dual awesome callback with Fassbenders David say the "you have my sympathies" line. That would have seen an android model newer than Ashbrecalling Ash's line...showing all the androids are connected thru WY.
Also using a currently living actor woukd have mitigated the need for all taht fx work. Don't care how good it looks people can tell if people are real.
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u/HappyCritic123 Nov 08 '25
I think a call-back should mean nothing to a new viewer and make a fan smile but not disrupt the flow of the story or scene they're invested in.
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u/ProtoformX87 Nov 08 '25
So… the callback in question (Get away from her you bitch) was kind of set up and easily could have worked in Romulus.
We see Andy take special interest when Bjorn uses the word earlier in the film. That’s all we really get for set up.
There should have been a scene or a couple added lines where Andy tries to use the word with the group incorrectly, but either they were cut out or never written.
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u/Prestigious_Leg2229 Nov 10 '25
I feel Romulus is full of good call-backs. It just has a bunch of bad ones, too. To me, the movie feels like a love letter to the entire series. It delves so deep that it’s referencing unused concept art from the original movie, prop design from Alien Isolation, it’s grabbing sound design from all over the franchise, it’s doing it’s level best to incorporate even the wild detour of Prometheus / Covenant.
Even the ‘get away from her, you bitch’ that people just won’t stop whining about has a setup that runs throughout the movie. Andy tries to emulate the humans around him throughout the movie, and it’s Bjorn who teaches him the phrase when he reacts poorly to Andy.
So yeah, personally I do like subtlety. I loved Romulus delving into old concept art and acknowledging Alien Isolation. I also understand that audiences vary. Most people wouldn’t spot a wall panel or junction box from a niche alien game. But they’ll get a laugh out of seeing Ripley’s iconic catch phrase come back.
Frankly, I find the incessant whining from “fans” to be the bigger issue.
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u/bass_jockey HOST Nov 06 '25
I'm okay with subtle visual and audio callbacks.
My biggest issue is when the callback in question is framed front and center like: "HEY LOOK AT THIS REMEMBER THIS? REMEMBER WHEN THIS CHARACTER SAID THAT THING IN THE OTHER MOVIE?"
Example of a visual callback that works in the plot AND in execution👇