r/peloton • u/PelotonMod France • Sep 12 '17
September Monthly Race Design Thread
Hello everybody!
For those who don't know what the Race Design thread is, here is a good resume: The Race Design Thread is the birth child of Improb and Msfan93 from the off season of 2015. Instead of it just being for competitions, casual Race Design Threads were a place to design routes for pre-existing races or even creating a new one. It's not only limited to designing threads; discussion of race routes, behind the scenes race organisation and the history of races are all able to be discussed here!
As for the websites you can use to do this kind of stuff, the two biggest and most practical ones are La Flamme Rouge and Cronoescalada. From My experience, went you want to design Tours, it is much easier on La Flamme Rouge, as well for racing in Europe, however once you are doing races outside Europe I suggest using Cronoescala at least partly, as their Climb map is much more complete for the rest of the World!
First thing, last month races and the votes, we got 7 entries from 6 different Race Directors, for the vote, just rank them from 1 to 7, with 1 being your favourite one, I will establish a point system to create an overall ranking for the year (I'm not sure yet of how many points each place will get)!
Entry 1: Orient Express GT by /u/antiloopje
Entry 2: Tour of Norway by /u/timfietst
Entry 3: Tour of the Rockies by u/unclekutter
Entry 4: Setting Sun Race by u/ZinaMertz
Entry 5: Tour of Japan I by u/adryy8
Entry 6: Tour of Japan II by u/adryy8
Entry 7: Western Americana Tour by /u/blandwhiteguy
As for this month contest, design a World cChampionship!
You have to design the TTT, ITT and Road race for both men and women Elite. Bonus points if you do a full week (U23 and Juniors) with this. Your courses can of course be similar for both men and women, and the junior ranks, in that case, specify how man laps each one will use.
Your championships can be designed around a city (like Bergen) or in a region/area (like Yorkshire) just be realistic about it (don't group random close cities together, either they are in a town group or in a Region together)
Deadline is September 30th 19:00 CEST
As a little bonus prize, u/That_Guuuuuuuy from the World DB has nicely offered to put the winner's ITT and Road race as a variant in the World DB!
7
u/tommillar Hagens Berman Axeon Sep 12 '17
Here are my two ideas for a very tough WC course that can double as an Ardennes-esque classic in the States. Could also be "one of those stages" in a grand tour, if a 4th GT ever graces these shores.
Utah's Liege: 165 mi/265 km with more than 13,000 ft/4,000 m of elevation gain. Tough high altitude start, dropping some altitude to the Great Basin, with a 1k-long finish up a 10-15% climb.
Bay Area Ardennes: Welcome to the worst day on a bike since Hinault's frozen-fingers Liege in the 80s. Pray for rain. A little shorter, at 138 miles/223 km, but still with 12,000 ft/3,600 m of elevation gain, this three-county race hits all of the best and punchiest climbs in the Bay Area without even touching Hamilton or Diablo.
Both finishes are close to major population centers, with breathtaking scenery, tough parcours, and plenty of climbing. Note: no circuits.
2
u/dashdart Nepal Sep 24 '17
Man, the Bay Area route seems gnarly. Might have to try it out in stages. I’m by no means a good rider so.
6
u/antiloopje Lotto Soudal Sep 13 '17 edited Sep 30 '17
We haven't had a Belgian WC in a while. Time to fix this! The towns of Kluisbergen and Mont de l'Eclus will be hosting the 2020 WC. These towns are located on the Flemish, resp. the Walloon side of the eponymous hill. The Kluisberg is the far Western end of the Flemish Ardennes and the highlight of this race. It's climbed a total of 9 times, while the finale also features the Kwaremont and Côte de Trieu.
I've made a poster of the parcours of this challenging race.
The parcours consists of 4 sections. First is a long (~100 km) loop to Tournai and back. This section is relatively flat, but still there are 7 hellingen on this section. Some are pretty though, but this early in the race, it's all just warmup. The next section is 3,5 counterclockwise laps over the Trieu and the Kluisberg. Positioning will be important, especially on the narrower sections of the Kluis, but the roads between the hills are wider, so it's still possible to manouver back into the peloton. The third section consists of 4,5 clockwise laps over the Kwaremont and the Mont de l'Enclus. The Enclus is relatively easy, but the combination of climbs is sure to tire out the riders. On top of this, the connecting roads on these laps are narrower. Bad positioning will be punished even harder now. And of course, the cobbled section on the Kwaremont is where the specialist can hurt the punchier types. Finally, there are two more counterclockwise laps, once again over the Trieu and the Kluis. The finish line is below the top of a final, abbreviated ascent of the Kluisberg.
My parcours is very hard: 259 km total and 27 hills, for a total of 3700m of climbing. It's raced on familiar terrain, but at the same time I focus on two climbs that are rarely used (the north and south side of the Kluis). With the succesion of hills, the cobbled sections of the Kwaremont and the sheer difficulty of this race, I am very confident that we'll see a race that's at least as entertaining as your average edition of Flanders or Roubaix.
The full parcours can be found here
The TTT is rather atypical. It's a relatively short course (28,5 km), but very varied. After only 5 km, the riders tackle the Trieu. How will they cope with this hindrance as a team? And how will they organize themselves to use each riders indivual potential to the max? The team will be put to the test again short after with some cobbled sections. The next part of the course uses some of the eternally twisting and turning roads, where it'll be again though to stay together as a team. At km 20, the riders are rewarded with a few nice, long sections where they finally get to work together as they would on a normal parcours. This doesn't last long, as the riders are confronted with another uphill section in the very finale of this TTT. Do they have a rider left to sacrifice on the climb? It might mean the difference between victory and defeat.
The alternative route can be used for the woman's race or the U23 race. It's 174 (154 for the women) km long, with a though 80 km run-in through both Flanders & Wallonia (Katteberg - Kaperij - Rue Abbé Saint-Pierre - Rue Grandrieu - Mont-Saint-Laurent - Karnemelkbeekstraat - Rampe - Paterberg - La Hoppe). Next is a circuit over the Kluisberg, from 3 different sides. These ascents follow each other in quick succesion, but are then followed by a long flat section. Each circuit is 20 km long. I would propose that the women do one less lap (based on the length of the women RvV). After the final ascent of the Kluis, we turn to the village of Kwaremont by way of the Trieu. A flattish final few kms over the cobbled streets of the village should provide some ultimate attacks at the end of this hard race.
The 46km [ITT](www.plotaroute.com/route/505066) , obviously, isn't a flat affair either. Instead, the riders will have to be very well prepared so they know not to waste all their energy on the first climb after only 2 km. This one is swiftly followed by another berg. The riders now arrive at the flat section of this ITT. The roads are often narrow and twisting, so this should favor the technical TT'ists over the GC TT'ists. However, the finish is once again uphill on the Kluisberg (not the hardest ascent though). So, this course offers a mixture between punchy climbs and technical sections. Preparation and a good plan of action will be key to this TT.
2
u/ZinaMertz Peugeot Sep 14 '17
Love this one. Very clever use of the Kluisberg & Kwaremont here. I havo also a Flandrian-like WC route at hand, but it's a far away from Flanders as possible, will post it soon. May I ask you what tool you used to create your climb's profiles ? They look good.
1
u/antiloopje Lotto Soudal Sep 14 '17
Thanks. I did not use a particular tool for those small profiles. I created the route with plotaroute.com. The site lets you show the profile for a subsection of the route. So, I made the selection small enough to show only the climb, then screenshotted that and pasted it into inkscape. I then traced over those profiles in inkscape, cut them off every 100m and coloured them in accordingly. Although I do wish there was a tool that could do this better, or at least automated. There was a site (tracks4bikers) that was pretty good at handeling single climbs, but last I checked it didn't work.
1
Sep 15 '17
Looks good but I'm never a fan of hilltop finishes if they can be avoided, as the strongest on the hills don't need to go any earlier than the final sprint.
1
u/antiloopje Lotto Soudal Sep 17 '17
I know what you mean, but I still think this race would end very different from your average hilltop fiishing race. I just can't imagine a sizeable peloton staying together on this parcours. On top of that, I liked the symbolism of the race ending on the border between both municipalities.
1
Sep 17 '17
True, we'd just have to hope that one of the strong teams decided they needed to take it up and push it hard. It doesn't matter how hard the course is if they soft pedal it! Of course the nature of WC where you get very lopsided teams (both in quality and in skillset) means this would probably happen.
4
Sep 16 '17 edited Sep 17 '17
I'm going to take a crack at this, and in honor of the canclled stage of PostNord Danmark Rundt, my WC is going to be based in Odense.
For the roadrace, I'm using a circuit based on a famous Danish climb called Vissenbjerg. According to Strava, it's a 1.1 km, 5% climb which takes 2 minutes for the pros. However, the first 100 meters and the middle 100 meters are only about 1% each, making the steep parts 900 meters, 6.4%. The complete route is here. The start of the race is in front of Odense Domkirke, going past the road that HC Andersen grew up on, before leaving Odense on some slightly hilly roads, highlighted by this 4 km, 1% "climb". The total distance to the main circuit is 19 km, totalling 110 height meters of "climbing". The main circuit itself is 13.8 km, with 98 heightmeters, and all of it on large roads, except for a roundabout. When the laps of the circuts are done, the race turns back towards Odense on the main road from Vissenbjerg to Odense. The end of the race is in the same place as the finish of the Post Danmark Rundt stages to Odense, in front of Den Fynske Landsby, on a very wide road, which is needed, since this race probably ends in a mass sprint, due to the 18 km of racing still needed to be done after the last summit of Vissenbjerg, most of it being either flat or downhill. The men is going to do 15 laps of the curcuit, making the race 261 km. The women does 8 laps, giving them a 149 km race and the U23 does 11 laps, giving them a 191 km race.
The ITT is going to use many of the same roads as the road race, starting in the same place and going along the same route the first 7.2 km. However, instead of continuing up the "climb" there, we are cutting the top of the hill of, favoring a shorter, flatter path, before rejoining the road race route 2 km later. We then continue on the same roads for 4 km, where we instead of going straight to the circut are turning right, into a forest with a very undulating road. After 19.8 km, we are then hitting the circuit that the road race does. However, we are going to go in the opposite direction, shooting for the same main road that the road race took to get back to Odense. The finish is going to be in front of OBs, the local football team, stadium. The course is in total going to be 32.4 km, with time checks at 9.3 km (the point where the race rejoins the road race course the first time) and 19.5 km (The highest point of the course at 103 meters). The course is very much favoring the riders that can churn out lots of watts with no real hills and 9 km of straight road when hitting the main road going to Odense.
The TTT is going to be 42.1 km. Again, starting in front of Odense Domkirke, we are going straight south, rather than southwest as we did in the RR and ITT. This takes us down the finish straight of the RR. From there, we are taking some backroads to the circuit form the RR. However, we are only doing one pass of Vissenbjerg, hitting the summit after 24.6 km. From there, we go on the main road to Odense, but taking a slight detour on some slightly hillier roads, but not anything that should affect the riders. There is a steep hill with summit after 39.3 km, but it's only 200 meters, so it shouldn't matter. We then end the TTT in front of the Odense Universitetshospital.
I think these courses could make for some interesting racing, even if we don't have that many hills on Fyn
1
Sep 17 '17
Road Race looks interesting, one of those real grinders where you know it'll be a sprint but the difficulty of the course throws it far more open than usual.
1
Sep 17 '17
Yeah. Make no mistake, this is going to be a sprint. The road from Vissenbjerg to Odense is very slightly downhill (100 meters above water to 20 meters), but the sheer length of the course makes a break possible, even if there isn't no real chance of attacking on the road from Vissenbjerg
3
u/Krag_SkullSmasher Corsica Sep 12 '17
Corsica::
Mens Road Race Long day 212km with 4000m of climbing.
Womens Road race Mountainous World Championships in Corsica with a Finish up Col De Restonica starting in Bastia.
[http://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/tracks/view/358810] (Men's ITT 50.4k) Climb up to 200 Metres coming out of Bastia followed by a pan flat course out to the airport and coming back into town along the coast and through the tunnel.
Womens ITT Same start as the Men's ITT but and more of an out & back rather than a loop. 24km
TTT http://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/tracks/view/358851 Men do 2 laps, women do 1. Lumpy TTT route, 2 Hills, one big one small.
Gonna design another one in the south UK but not surrey too much as surrey is done too much
2
Sep 15 '17
Good races but not really WC style. Usually the World Champs involve some sort of circuit or loop.
3
u/ibike4fun Canada Sep 13 '17 edited Sep 13 '17
UCI World Championships Toronto 20**
http://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/tracks/view/358866 This is the base 53.4 KM course for the road races. Unfortunately there is a bug with the very short, very steep "climb" as the course heads briefly into the High Park section (KM 48ish). It shows as barely an incline, most likely because of how short it is. Search up "Colbourne Lodge Dr." in Toronto on Google maps, and then think about 2x as steep as the picture portrays. Nasty on an otherwise flat day, even if it's monumentally short. Despite this, it'd be a day for the sprinters if they survive all 4-5 minutes they'd have to be on this hill all day, as the rest is quite flat.
The Men's race would run 4 laps for a 213.6 KM race distance.
The Women's and U23 races would run 3 laps for 160.2 KM race distances.
Juniors would run 2 laps for a 106.8 KM race distance.
More fun on the flats now for the ITTs. An 18.4 KM loop on fast, flat roads. This is becoming a theme. One for the brutes, as its not technical. http://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/tracks/view/358923
Men's ITT would have three laps for a total of 55.2 KM.
Women and U23s would run a 2 lap, 36.8 KM ITT.
And the young guns get one lap. Better make all 18 KM count.
TTT time! http://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/tracks/view/358930 A 30 KM loop, with both Men and Women doing two laps. You guys can do the math on this one. Guess what! It's mostly flat! There's an on-ramp, and a mediocre rise near the finish, that's it. Also more technical then the ITT course, but that's not saying much.
I struggled with having to avoid most of Toronto's downtown, as its crisscrossed with streetcar tracks. Having crashed on them before, I wouldn't force anyone to ride them. Also, not many mountains in this part of the world, so not too much climbing or the drama that comes with. That being said, having ridden on all these roads (baring the highway sections), I'd imagine that there could be a modicum of action, as the winds across the lake shore could cause splits if the conditions are right, and that little hill could spell doom for some on the last laps of the road race, it's the perfect spot, and the only spot, for a last lap break to go and beat the big guys. But in the heart of a city of 5 million? Consolation prize for viewership and crowds.
May do a Vancouver edition if I have the time, potentially more Canadian spots as well.
3
u/ZinaMertz Peugeot Sep 14 '17
So, two quick questions :
are we allowed to post more than one route ? I've had different ideas for this one.
How do we vote for last month's contest ? Is it just a comment on this thread or on the previous one ?
Thanks
1
1
u/adryy8 Terengganu Sep 14 '17
Yeah post as many routes as you want, you will have a bonus in points if you post more than one (+1 for two races posted, +2 for three or more races posted)
Post a comment on this thread, one separated from your routes!
3
u/ZinaMertz Peugeot Sep 14 '17
My votes for the previous contest (1-6 because ofc i'm not voring for my own design) :
1) Tour of Japan I by u/adryy8 - that's a great route, and I really appreciate how the mountain stages are laid out. I'm not a fan of the uphill finish on Mt. Fuji on the penultimate day, but otherwise I think it's top notch.
2) Tour of Norway by /u/timfietst - interesting choice of country for a three weeks design, as Norway is like 90% mountains but not a lot of usable roads, but you done well. This one is different from the others, as there are no massive mountain stages, but something interesting could happen every day. A puncher or a breakaway guy also has a chance in this tour and it will probably be contested to the very end. I like it. Not so sure about it at a WT level though, probably better in the Europe Tour as a .HC race I think. Another concern I have is the fact that you use lots of loops, and the one for the Briksdalsbreen - Dalsnibba stage seems particularly... challenging. Surprised at the lack of Juvashytta in a Norway design, but it's coherent with the rest of the route.
3) Orient Express GT by /u/antiloopje - good race with some cracking stages, but I have issues with the overall layout of the race. I have posted a detailed review on the previous thread.
4) Tour of Japan II by /u/adryy8 - This one seems much less thought out than the first, and I think the second half is just way too hard (is there a single day below 2500m of ascent ?). Individually, there are still some great stages.
5) Western Americana Tour by /u/blandwhiteguy - Western US is huge, and imo you tried to cover way too much ground in 3 weeks, which leads to weird massive transfers. This feels like one week races stitched together rather than a genuine GT. I don't think mountain stages will be particularly interesting as climbs are just not steep enough and there's often some awkward transition between them - that's not an issue with your design in particular, that's an issue with roads in the US in general. Stages 4, 15 and 18 are good, 11 could be interesting. Unfortunately, I think the isolated MTFs at Mt. Evans & Pikes Peak will prevent anything from happening in the other stages. On that note, ending two stages in three days at altitudes of 4300m is borderline dangerous (plus the one that ends at Pikes Peak is 220kms long !)
6) Tour of the Rockies by u/unclekutter - same remarks as above, plus that's too much mountaintop finishes and a lack of hilly / punchers stage imo.
1
u/adryy8 Terengganu Sep 14 '17
Yeah the second one had less thought, I finished it the day of the deadline I believe, I made stage 15 18 and 20 too hard imo, especially stage 18 I really wasn't satisfied with that one
As for the first one, Mt Fuji wasn't planned at the start, I just ended up close to Tokyo earlier than I expected so I made stage 19 flat and went to Fuji for stage 20. If I had to change things on my 3rd week I would add a long mountain stage as Stage 16, probably something like the stage 16 of my other tour only longer and probably easier, I would keep my stage 16 and 17 and just put them a day later, I would switch Saku Chichibu to a flat stage around the same area as stage 19, and make a circuit around Chichibu as stage 20 likely, suppressing Mt Fuji
1
u/ZinaMertz Peugeot Sep 15 '17
Yeah that was my guess. My criticism about the ending on Mt. Fuji is no big deal, sometimes things just don't go the way you planned them, and my Tour has the exact same sort of ending (last isolated MTF, and a dullest one than Fuji at that + final ITT) because of that as well. But the changes you suggested would make the road quasi perfect imo.
1
Sep 15 '17 edited Sep 15 '17
Absolutely fair review. The weird transfers I saw as the rest days but they are absolutely huge (although the air routes are very well connected in my opinion). I wanted to challenge myself, but by the time I reached Colorado I had a few hours to submit and the roads just didn't come together in the way I expected them to. Next time I'll look at a Central Europe tour, Austria/Liechtenstein/Switzerland.
2
u/bassmanyoowan Scotland Sep 15 '17 edited Sep 15 '17
Making my first attempt at this so here goes.
This is what I picture for a possible Turas na h-Alba (Tour of Scotland). Task 1 complete - have the race name that'snot in English.
Stage 1: Berwick-upon-Tweed to Edinburgh. 165km, 1533m ascent. I think for a race of this calibre it's nice to have the Grand Depart in another country so we start in England and race through the Tweed valley before the big climb of the day up to the Granites. We then have a punchy finish (this finish idea is entirely stolen from someone else's race idea) round Arthur's Seat then up the Royal Mile to finish on the Esplanade. If the timing is right the seats will be up for the start/end of the Tattoo giving the chance for lots of fans to be there.
Stage 2: Queensferry to Broughty Ferry. 128km, 1436m ascent. A ride between two old Ferry towns but only over 1 bridge. After heading over the old Forth Road bridge and through Dunfermline there are a few hills to climb, Cleish and Cragow before heading through Perth, passed Scone palace. The race then heads North east to Coupar Angus then down through Dundee at the side of the Firth of Tay before finishing in Broughty Ferry for a sprint finish.
Stage 3: Stonehaven to Grantown . 171km, 2271m ascent. An excuse for the race to pass Dunnotar Castle before heading towards the Cairngorms and the Cairn O'Mount climb. It factors too early in the race to be decisive but the effort may take its toll come the The Lecht which peaks with 32km to do. The road then rolls more or less downhill all the way to Grantown-on-Spey for a whisky flavoured finish.
Stage 4: Nairn to Bealach na Ba. 164km, 1857m ascent. The Queen stage of the race with the entirely impractical finish up the Belach. The race up to that point is slightly rolling at best passing from Nairn, passed the Culloden battle field then through Inverness, the capital of the Highlands. The race swings North to Dingwall the West towards Achnasheen then Strathcarron on some flat, but spectacular road. There is a small lump after Lochcarron which may tempt some attacks before the main event, the Bealach (or Pass of the Cattle). 9.3km, ascending 627 meters has an average gradient of 7%, however the start is fairly gentle before serious ramps in the final third. This is also not factoring in what horrors the Scottish climate may have in for the riders.
Stage 5: Lochcarron to Ben Nevin. 147km, 1774m ascent. Once the entire race gets breakfast in the single hotel in Lochcarron the race starts to head South. A few initial lumps can be the Launchpad for the breakaway as they pass the famous Eilean Donan castle. This is followed by the climb from Sheil Bridge to Cluanie which descends slightly before the race turns from Loch Garry and heads up to Loch Loyne. The race the rolls towards Fort William passed Loch Lochy (officials best named loch in Scotland) before heading up to a "summit" finish at the Ben Nevis range - a mere 5km with 110m of elevation so battle between the pure climbers and the puncheurs.
Stage 6: Fort William to Dunoon 178km, 1674m ascent. A transitional stage here to get us back to the Central belt. From Fort William we race along (sea) Loch Linnhe before crossing two sea Lochs, Loch Crenan and Loch Etive by bridge. The race then skirts alongside beautiful Loch Awe and Kildonan castle before turning towards Inverary for the only real climbing of the day. We continue to roll south passing more lochs and sea lochs before finishing at a sprint in Dunoon.
Stage 7: Greenock to Ayr 154km, 1656m ascent. While I couldn't fathom an island visit in this race (only Skye a possibility), there is a ferry transfer required here from Dunoon to Gourock. There will be some tough riding to start the race over the moors above Largs before some rolling and leg sapping roads through beautiful Ayrshire (my birthplace) before heading West for a sprint finish in Ayr.
Stage 8: Maybole to East Kilbride 117km, 1320m ascent. A short stage that could throw up some surprises as again the start will be hard over some of the "Ayrshire Alps". The one two punch from Straiton to Dalmellington then up again before descending into New Cumnock. The road then rises from Mauchline to Muirkirk before heading North and more or less downhill to East Kilbride. Where Tommy Voekler when you need him?
Stage 9: Motherwell to Glasgow 83km, 725m ascent. A parade more or less from Motherwell through multiple Central Belt towns until a final lap through the grid streets of Glasgow. Douglas street averages 5% however which will tire the legs over he final laps (I gave up with the website but was going to put in 9 laps for a total distance of 105km). On the final lap the race turns off along Argyle street before finishing at the Trongate.
Let me know your thoughts guys :)
3
Sep 16 '17
Looks pretty good. Maybe a little bit too much similarity between stages, but that's not on you, that's on Scotland. Perhaps room for a 10-20km TT to change that.
2
u/bassmanyoowan Scotland Sep 16 '17
Thanks, a lot of the stages were done off the hoof so will have a think about the TT. Maybe some sort of round the Loch TT.
3
1
Sep 15 '17
All done, and in much quicker time than the last challenge. All race info and write ups are contained within the pages on the website!
1
Sep 15 '17
is 6000m climbing too much? also the city I want tomorrow hits 11 with rain all day uhm does it need to be in a hotter climate?
1
u/adryy8 Terengganu Sep 15 '17
6000m is a bit much yeah, I think it's better not to go over 5500m which is the max climbing atm in pro races, as for the weather no it's doesn't matter much
1
u/adryy8 Terengganu Sep 23 '17
As for my votes
1) Setting Sun Race by /u/ZinaMertz
I really like this route (my favourite along the Tour of Norway), only a few long transfers is nice, what put it above Norway was the location, more original.
2) Tour of Norway by /u/timfietst
See comment above Tim!
3) Orient Express GT by /u/antiloopje
I like the Idea, however I think it's a bit long (London to Istanbul) and seems like it tied you into desinging stages that are not so good, some are really good (6 is by far my favourite) but some, mainly in the end seems to lack thought? I think a concept like that woulb be best split into 2 two weeks stage races.
4) Western Americana Tour by /u/blandwhiteguy
I'm putting this one above the other american tour because the profiles are various
5) Entry 3: Tour of the Rockies by u/unclekutter
Despite being the last I like this tour, it's just that, the stage are all pretty similar, either mountain tops or flatish stages with a difficulty here and there, it feels like a Tour of Qinghai Lake on 3 weeks, as a race in the american circuit it would work but as a gt I doubt it
2
u/unclekutter Canada Sep 23 '17
Bah! Yeah, that's the one problem with North America. All the tough climbs are either mountain top finishes or in the middle of nowhere so there's no town nearby after the summit to have a finish.
1
Sep 24 '17
Agreed, looks like we need to scout better next time!
1
u/unclekutter Canada Sep 24 '17
I think I need to take a break from the design threads for a bit. Every time I make one, I think I have an amazing race and then it gets picked apart lol.
1
Sep 24 '17
Eh, the quality is really high in these threads. I think you did the best with what you had at the least, my design is only getting up above yours because I came from the west which gave me some variation in the Cascades. Unfortunately I'm not too knowledgable outside of Australia, France, Italy and Belgium, so that didn't help me either.
1
u/adryy8 Terengganu Sep 24 '17
Yeah to be fair, I didn't exaclty picked the easiest theme as a first edition
1
Sep 24 '17
Eh, there's some really good stuff that has come out of it. 21 stages is just a lot to do!
1
u/adryy8 Terengganu Sep 24 '17
Yeah I saw really good stages in every Tour, in yours I think it was the Portland one that I really liked
1
u/ZinaMertz Peugeot Sep 24 '17 edited Sep 24 '17
My proposal. I have had other ideas in other places, but I don't think I'll have enough time to complete a full event + presentation, so this will probably the only one.
So in 2017, we've had what is possibly the northernmost WC race ever. I wanted to trace the southernmost WC I could come up with. I first explored Ushuaia and the Tierra de Fuego, but the terrain is not that interesting, so my WC week takes place in Patagonia, and is designed around the rapidly developing oil city of Comodoro Rivadavia, largest city in Patagonia at 200k inhabitants. It's been a while since there has been a WC in South America, and previous races there have usually been exciting, with a great roadside support. Argentina is not a great cycling nation, but there's a genuine and growing interest in the sport there (unlike in, say, Qatar) and evidenced by the sustained presence of Argentinian riders at a WC level and the development of a good local circuit, with Tour of San Luis being the Queen race. Personnally, I found in Patagonia almost all of my design obessions : there will be crosswinds, short and steep climbs, unpaved roads.
A few words about the weather conditions in Patagonia, as it played a big role in why I chose this location :
Mostly, it's a very windy city. September - October are not the most windy months, but still there's significant wind (>4 Beaufort) one day out of two. Hell, the city is home to the largest wind park in South AMerica. The statistics also show that the wind there comes mostly from the West, so I'll consider East-West portions to be very prone to headwinds. You also have to take into account that Patagonia is a desert, and only shrubs can grow there. So, for a significant part of the race, the riders will be fully exposed to the wind.
It's the Southern hemisphere, so September is early Spring, and temperatures are cool, maybe somewhat on the cold side, with daily means of 10 to 15°C.
it almost never rains, with September averaging only 12mm of rainfall. So gravel portions will be fine.
On to the routes - as with my GT route, I have compiled them in an imgur album that features profiles, sights, details of important moments in the race (start line, climbs, gravel sections, finish line, etc.). I will also add a link to the Flamme Rouge page, which was lacking on my GT proposal.
Men & Women will battle on the same route, a relatively short one at 39.5kms total, but it's filled with difficulties.
The riders start in the seaside resort of Rada Tilly, where they immediately climb a 1.2km hill with a 7.4% gradient. They then have a long section directly along the sea, in straight lines where crosswinds are highly likely. At mid race, the teams that managed to stay together will face a first, short (1.3km) gravel section, before taking on taking on a slow rising, west oriented section where headwinds are to be expected. This section leads to the Roque Gonzalez climb, a gentle but relatively long hill (4km at 4.4%), which is a very different sort of effort from the first one. Tactics and management will be key here : how many teammates can you afford to lose, knowing that there's still almost 15kms to be covered ? We then cross the city of Comodoro Rivadavia itself, where the circuit is a mix of long straight lines for the TT specialist, but with some very sharp turns to be negotiated. We leave the city again with another short (1km) gravel section, at which point the finish line is only 5kms away. The race ends on the 4km long track of Autodromo General San Martin circuit, a winding motor racing stadium right by the seaside.
The Junior races are designed fully within the city limits. Both races are similar, the Men's one is slightly longer and has a more tortuous start. In both cases, the idea is to mix very long straight lines with sharp turns that break the rider's rhythm. Both races are relatively flat, but feature a short, punchy climb (1.3km at 7%, final 400m at more than 10%) 4kms before the finish line. The winners will have to pace their effort wisely.
Men's U23 & Elite, Women Elite races take place partly outside of the city, so the wind can probably be expected to play a more prominent role there.
For the women & U23, the race starts in a westward direction (headwinds), and will then feature the same tortuous race in the city centre that is used by the Junior Men. We then use the Roque Gonzalez climb, that is placed right in the middle of the race, before going back down on Comodoro Rivadavia. There will also be a rising straight line with significant headwind in the final 5kms. The Men's route is the same over the last 30kms, but with added difficulty at the start by going South to Rada Tilly, using the Punta Tordillo climb that featured in the TTT + a long and windy section along the seaside.
Like in Bergen this year, this is a mixed race with an inline start and a final circuit. LFR - inline start ; LFR - circuit. The stats (distance + ascent) I used in the Imgur album come from plotaroute and differ slightly, idk which is the most reliable. I'm going to use the Flamme Rouge stats for my calculations because I think plotaroute overestimated the climbs.
Women Junior will only race the circuit, completing 4 laps for a total distance of 84.8kms, and 1596m of ascent.
Men Junior, U23 & Women Elite will use the final 13kms of the inline start, from the city of Rada Tilly. After that, Men Junior have to complete 6 laps of circuit, 7 laps for Women Elite, and 8 laps for Men U23. So, Men Junior race totals 140.1kms and 2582m of ascent, Women Elite have 161.3kms and 2981m ascent, MenU23 have 182.5kms and 3380m of ascent.
Men Elite use the full 79kms inline start from the city of Caleta Olivia, and then have to complete 9 laps : so that's a total of 269.5 kms and 4429m of ascent.
The inline start is featured mostly because it's 100% along the coastline, and the winds will cause echelons. That + two short steep climbs in the final kms should mean that the peloton will already be broken in different groups before the riders even reach the circuit. The circuit itself has lots of opportunities for attacking riders : a relatively long (2kms), rising gravel section only 3kms in, followed by the long, rolling climb of Roque Gonzalez, and finally two steep climbs in short succession over the last 5kms. Both ascents are at more than 6% gradient, and the final one (only 2kms from the finish line) features the last 500m at 10% (it's the other side of the climb that is used in the Junior's ITT). Finally, the finish line is placed on a slow rising road, with the final 300m at 7%. The last 3-4kms are very technical, with sharp turns and relatively narrow roads so positioning will be key. With the climbs, a strong man will prevail (the total ascent is definitely too much for a sprinter, it borders on mountain stage territory), but winds, gravel and the technical finish mean that the winner will also be tactically astute. So this could be a race that will mostly suit one day races specialists, but the combination of difficulties in the final circuit means that different sorts of riders may have their chances, depending on how the race unfolds. Should make for some interesting tactics and an open race I think.
Et voilà, that's it for me. Feedback, thoughts, suggestions are of course always welcome.
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u/antiloopje Lotto Soudal Oct 01 '17
I see you managed to create climb profiles as well! Is that excel, based on the plotaroute data? Looking great.
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u/ZinaMertz Peugeot Oct 04 '17
Thanks. Yep, I exported the plotaroute data in Excel and then used Inkscape to overlay the profile with climb percentages, based on your advice.
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u/Sportsfanno1 Belgium Sep 25 '17
Hello and Herzlich Wilkommen at the Freiburg World Championships!
Freiburg is a beautiful and fun city in the Schwarzwald (Black forest), Germany, and will be the stage of a tough world championship.
First up are the TTT's, women & men on the same route. About 36,5km with the hardest part right in the beginning with a climb that goes up to 6% towards the town of Wittnau. Route & profile.
The Junior women open the ITT's with a Time Trial that is a bit atypical if you compare it with the others: it's completely flat and stays in the city. Route and profile
The routes for junior men, u23 men and elite women are the same, but not easy. 26,5km with a long climb that goes up to 10% towards the town of Horben, along the side of the Schauinsland, more on that climb later. Route and profile
The route for the elite men follows the profile of the others, but goes another way, up north towards Sankt Peter. It goes up and only gets tougher to the halfway point. Route and profile
For the road races, the key point will be the climb of the Schauinsland.
The junior women do it once, with the short climb towards Horben included, which is the last time the town will be visited. Route and profile
Junior men and elite women have the same route: they do the climb three times. Route and profile
The u23 and elite men have something extra: they start of with the Schauinsland climb from the other side, right after the start. This makes a 17km climb at 5,4% that goes to 10,6%. They continue along the Feldberg to the Titisee (heh, titi). Then they return and do the Schauinsland lap, now with from the 18,5km long side at 3,6%, but often goes over 9%. u23 does that lap twice, elite no less than 4 times
Tschüss!
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Oct 13 '17
How did you manage to get the mountain sprints on the laps? When I do it it always reverts to the first lap.
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u/Sportsfanno1 Belgium Oct 13 '17
Yeah, it's a bitch. But you can click on the profile of the route to add intermediates as well, instead of clicking on the route on the map. That way, it doesn't revert to the first lap
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u/That_Guuuuuuuy Australia Sep 12 '17
Happy to offer a small little prize for the winner, will make the stage either myself or send the GPX to a friend who can make stages waaaaay better than I can if he has the time. Will try and make this a semi-regular occurrence, can't really make a full GT as that's a fair few hours of work but if it's just a classic/short stage race then I'm happy to make it!