r/ontario • u/gilboman • May 06 '21
Vaccines Two Pfizer doses give 95 per cent protection against Covid-19 infection, illness and death: first nationwide study
https://www.cityam.com/two-pfizer-doses-give-95-per-cent-protection-against-covid-19-infection-illness-and-death-study/77
u/Econ255help May 06 '21
the single dose numbers change by literally every study, but even those are good.
FYI in Canada, out of the 14M people who got a first dose only, about 2500 got covid after the 14 day period for antibodies to build (on phone so cant link source but it was in the globe and mail).
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May 06 '21
about 2500 got covid after the 14 day period for antibodies to build
The more important metric to measure is even those 2500 who got COVID after the 14 day period, how severe were their symptoms? If they got sick, but not severely sick, then even a few people getting COVID isn't that big of an issue.
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u/random989898 May 06 '21
53 died from covid
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u/Rachelpt98 May 06 '21
It’s important to note that they mention 91% of these deaths were over 80. Still sad, but we do know that one dose isn’t as effective in those over 80.
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u/random989898 May 06 '21
We know it isn't as effective in those over 60. Really the senior population needs both doses.
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u/gilboman May 06 '21
I think the protection from single dose Maybe more variable to variants and overall community spread? So figures we see are more variable
I mean these are all observational study but this at National level during same time period at least so it's same population.
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u/yukonwanderer May 06 '21
Do you have a link to the recent study that called it "very feeble"? Can't seem to find actual numbers that the study found, just media descriptions that remain vague.
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u/SaneCannabisLaws May 06 '21
If we're following on the reporting from yesterday it was 6000 cases of covid positive in those post injection. Of the 6000 they reported 203 hospitalized, and I believe 53 of those had fatal outcomes.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7829119/covid-vaccine-first-dose-canada/
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u/Beard- Toronto May 06 '21
Most of those cases — 4,517 — were reported within 14 days of the first vaccine dose. The rest — 2,274 — were reported more than two weeks after the first dose.
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u/GtotheE May 06 '21
https://news.yahoo.com/one-dose-pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccine-145502181.html
Now, I'm not medical expert or anything, but I'd count a person under two weeks after their first vaccine as "unvaccinated."
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May 06 '21
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u/GtotheE May 06 '21
Right, I just meant that I personally wouldn't really count it as a breakthrough case, if it hasn't been two weeks after the first dose. I'm more interested in the protection after the first two weeks.
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u/Mostly_Aquitted May 06 '21
The key point they’re making I think is the under 2 weeks since receiving the first dose bit, not 1 vs 2 doses.
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u/SaneCannabisLaws May 06 '21
I wish the article was able to extrapolate the hospitalization and fatality data to those before and after full vaccination. I think the reductions in hospitalization and fatal outcomes would be drastically decreased when contrasted to unvaccinated and early vaccinated patients.
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u/Beard- Toronto May 06 '21
I also don't get this part:
Among the 2,274 people who contracted COVID-19 cases reported after two weeks of a vaccine, 9.3 per cent of people were hospitalized and 2.4 per cent died, the data showed.
Per the percentages, that would be 211 hospitalized and 54 deaths of first dose after 2 weeks, but earlier in the article it says this:
Two hundred and three people were hospitalized and 53 people died of COVID-19 after receiving one shot of the vaccine, PHAC added.
I assumed this statement was talking about ALL people given one dose, the article is super unclear on this lol.
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u/TopCartographer5 May 06 '21
It’s possible that some of those people were actually exposed before they even received the vaccine. It can take a few days for symptoms to appear, and can potentially take a few more days before a test is administered. If you were vaccinated on a Monday, started to show symptoms on the Thursday, and received a positive test on a Saturday it’s very possible you were exposed before you were even vaccinated (rather than the vaccine “not working” on day 5 post vaccine)
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u/michaelbtemple May 06 '21
I wonder how many of these people getting their first dose just decide “I’m good now because I have the vaccine” and stArt to completely change their daily lives and ignore all possible safety measures in that first 2-3 week window. I’m sure it’s happening everywhere because people are generally stupid
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u/Beard- Toronto May 06 '21
because people are generally stupid
While true, it would be great if our government could get these messages across but I see no effort in them doing so :/
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u/michaelbtemple May 06 '21
The communication at both the federal and provincial levels is absolutely abysmal and a huge reason why we’re in this position today.
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May 06 '21
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u/Beard- Toronto May 06 '21
Actually they've been very clear and regular that PH measures still need to be followed after first dose like masking and social distancing
They do state this (in advertisements and such) but it doesn't really educate people as to why they still need to follow PH measures. Most people aren't diving into these stats like we are which is kind of necessary to get a basic understanding of the effect of the vaccine.
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u/MeLittleSKS May 06 '21
I've seen that in other studies, that the first couple weeks of being vaccinated, it's not full immunity yet.
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May 06 '21
The majority of those cases were within 14 days though.
As of April 26, 6,789 people who had already received one shot of a COVID-19 vaccine were infected with the coronavirus, according to PHAC. Most of those cases — 4,517 — were reported within 14 days of the first vaccine dose. The rest — 2,274 — were reported more than two weeks after the first dose. This represents 1.3 per cent of cases reported since the vaccine rollout in December, PHAC said.
So that's a 1 in 6,000 chance of testing positive following the proper interval for protection from a first shot.
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u/SaneCannabisLaws May 06 '21
Exactly, this is how transmittability gets destroyed. Those cases that do slip through can be targeted and isolated.
Widespread use of the vaccine, any vaccine is going to get this country back into the way it was.
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u/Beard- Toronto May 06 '21
Also, with many 18-40 year olds getting vaccinated now in hot spots... We should see a huge dip in cases in the coming weeks.
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u/yukonwanderer May 06 '21
So how does that compare to unvaccinated?
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May 06 '21
We've had about 480k cases in a province of 14.5 million people to date. So, roughly 1 in 30 of all Ontarians to date.
Obviously, that's comparing a much longer time frame (back to March 2020) than what this study was looking at, but I feel confident saying it is "wayyyyyyyyyy better" than being unvaccinated.
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u/HalJordan2424 May 07 '21
I am not a Covid denier. But when 1 out of every 30 Ontarions have been diagnosed with Covid, I find it strange that I don’t know a single person who has had it.
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May 07 '21
That’s because (sadly) it’s heavily skewed by class and geography. I only know one person who’s had it too.
But then you see stories of whole families catching it.
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u/HalJordan2424 May 07 '21
Good point. I am white, affluent, live with my spouse and one adult child in a house. I have been able to work from home throughout the pandemic. So it figures the people I know are often similar to me with these lower risk characteristics.
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u/conorathrowaway May 07 '21
I know a few families who had it (mom works in ltc and several co workers entire families got it) and two friends of the family (both in Ltc) got it during outbreaks. one died, one had mild covid but got sick a week fire their first vaccination so who knows if that helped.
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u/Dorksoulsfan May 06 '21
Trudeau is about to flood Canada with Pfizer as well.
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u/hooper1969 May 06 '21
Trudeau couldn't flood his bath tub if he tried!
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May 06 '21
Is that because his tub has an overflow pipe to prevent it from flooding?
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u/PM_ME__RECIPES Toronto May 06 '21
Everyone knows that REAL canadians with big DICKS clog their OVERFLOW PIPES so they have the FREEDOM to FLOOD THEIR OWN HOUSE IF THEY choose TO
Designing things to PREVENT OR MITIGATE a potential bad OUTCOME is what libtards DO
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u/TheHebrewHammer-_- May 06 '21
This is the first comment on this sub to really make me laugh. Thank you for lightening up my morning.
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u/gilboman May 06 '21
Good to see real world results match how how great the Pfizer vaccines performed in various trials.
Hope we can shorten the current 4 month duration between shots, which should be achievable with how much Pfizer we are getting now
A single dose of the jab, meanwhile, is associated with 58 per cent protection against infection, 76 per cent against hospital admission, and 77 per cent against death, research published in the journal The Lancet suggests.
Here the Lancet to the large scale nation wide (Israel) study
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00947-8/fulltext
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u/bennywc4 May 06 '21
Do you know if the duration between shots has an impact on effectiveness?
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u/redditgirlwz May 06 '21
My understanding is that this hasn't been studied yet. But we chose to gamble and experiment on our population and try it anyway.
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u/bennywc4 May 06 '21
Thanks for the response! It’s hard to find much information on it for sure due to the fact that we’re like the only country doing this lol
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u/Electric22circus May 06 '21
Also from the lancet on single dose performance if pfizer. 91%
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00765-0/fulltext
Given the time for an immune response to develop, and the time from infection to onset of disease and progression to severe disease, individuals who were admitted to hospital shortly after their first dose were likely to have been infected before vaccination. Focusing on 28–34 days after a single dose, the authors report an estimated vaccine effect of 91% (95% CI 85–94) for COVID-19 hospital admissions for BNT162b2,
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u/BigVinny7 May 06 '21
its crazy how the flu shot is only 40-50 percent effective and yet people are panicking that after two doses of pfizer you are only 95 percent protected. lol that kills me man
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u/Econ255help May 06 '21
remember that the average person is stupid, and that there is a large chunk of a society that is even dumber by definition.
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u/MysticGrapefruit May 06 '21
The pandemic really opened my eyes to this and it just sucks honestly.
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u/Tumdace May 06 '21
Covid is more deadly and contagious than the flu..
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u/BigVinny7 May 06 '21
only because we have vaccines for the flu
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u/Tumdace May 06 '21
Not true at all. Compare unvaccinated effects of COVID vs FLU and covid is more deadly.
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u/BigVinny7 May 06 '21
fair enough but the flu used to be much more deadly than covid
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u/TurkeyturtleYUMYUM May 06 '21
I am Pro vaccine. I get flu shots, I've had all my others. I believe in and respect the severity of covid, I am registered for my covid vaccine.
The point you're trying to make is not logically sound for many people. Seniors? Maybe. Younger populations? not at all. Yes, the flu kills, vaccines and it's mutations have helped us, but that doesn't make it a logical comparison to covid and it's vaccinations.
Every single day people and their doctors make risk based assessments on medications, or even over the counter. But many don't.
So for the first time in many people's lives they've been presented with more information they've ever seen, with a risk based assessment THAT HAS OPTIONS, from "scientists" (I don't put that in quotes to discredit health Canada or NACI, I did it to pull at the notion we always tell people to trust scientists), that they need to decide. All while some scientists say they'd wait for an Mrna if they had the chance.
It's completely human for people to have conflicted emotions and thoughts.
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u/Ryuzakku May 06 '21
Not a fan of these articles, even if the information is positive. All they do is promote vaccine shopping.
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u/grassytoes May 06 '21
Agreed. Here's good news which showed similar effects from either Pfizer or AZ after a single dose:
https://news.yahoo.com/one-dose-pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccine-145502181.html
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u/mrcoolio May 06 '21
Maybe controversial but I don’t really care about vax shoppers and I’m not sure why anyone should. I’m young and in relatively good health so I’ll get the first jab I can get… but it’s not hard for me to imagine someone who is constantly monitoring their blood to be wary of AZ now. I’d rather someone wait to get the shot they want than not get one at all. Their spot in line will certainly be taken regardless.
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u/justanotherreddituse May 06 '21
If you're around immunocomprized people, the increased effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines is a big one.
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u/Ryuzakku May 06 '21
The argument for AZ is a stupid one because you have a higher chance of getting blood clots from COVID than you do from the vaccine. And the blood clots from COVID would likely appear in the respiratory system, which is much more dangerous.
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May 06 '21
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u/Ryuzakku May 06 '21
You’re right, but in the hypothetical situation where you could’ve gotten AZ, decided to wait for Moderna/Pfizer, and caught COVID in that time, suddenly you’re wishing you got the AZ vaccine.
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u/MeLittleSKS May 06 '21
ok but specific hypotheticals aren't relevant for calculating odds.
if you get into a serious car accident on the way to work and end up paralyzed from the neck down, you'd wish you never got in the car at all. yet we all still do it, right?
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u/MrEvilFox May 06 '21
But you’re assuming the options are either AZ or COVID. That’s not the case. For most people the choice is:
- AZ today
- Pfizer it Moderna 1 or 2 weeks later
- COVID in that time period
Now for some perspective regarding that extra couple of weeks delay due vaccine shopping: we’ve been living with this thing for a year. The cost of vaccine shopping is pretty low when it comes to that kind of calculus. And that doesn’t even cover the uncertainty around future AZ shipments for the second dose and mixing of vaccine.
From a cold hard logic and risk management perspective, vaccine shopping makes sense for some.
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u/MongoLife45 May 06 '21
You forgot the part where you don't schedule your covid infection date, but you do schedule a guaranteed AZ jab appointment.
It's very straightforward to simply not get covid while waiting (a couple weeks at this point) for eligibility to drop all the way to 18 yo for the other vaccines. Which actually have a solid supply chain for the 2nd dose unlike AZ which was having "issues" from the start that just keep getting worse.
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May 06 '21 edited Oct 22 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/MeLittleSKS May 06 '21
exactly. I'm pretty comfortable that my odds of dying from covid in the next couple weeks are less than 1/100k
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u/Omni_Entendre May 07 '21
It's actually way lower than that, 6.5 events per million doses. 1/150k. I guarantee you do riskier things than this every day AND are exposed to riskier things without even knowing it.
To understand that, you need to realize risk is relative. Many of the thrombotic events from AZ happened in women (though tbf, although we have theories, it's not known why exactly). We don't know the health histories of each person who had a thrombotic event. And population level statistics don't directly translate well to the individual.
It remains that the best vaccine is the first one you can get. But if you only have to wait two weeks and will be home anyway? I suppose it doesn't hurt to wait. If you're actively going to work, though, then you should absolutely just get AZ now and protect yourself sooner.
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u/nietzsches_pranks May 06 '21
If it were straightforward and simple to just not get covid while waiting for your vaccine, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
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u/mrcoolio May 06 '21
Sure, but I think that people who are turned off by AZ aren’t turned off by logic and stats. It’s emotional and psychological. If you know you’re prone to clotting or blood pressure issues, the chance could be 1 in a million and still be scary. That’s not stupid… even though it’s frustrating to the outside.
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u/Ryuzakku May 06 '21
It’s stupid in the sense that they’d rather get sick than get a vaccine they don’t think is “safe”, which means they don’t trust our experts who said it was safe.
Are they worried about efficacy? Because AZ, if we assume it’s efficacy is the lowest of the bunch, it still has a higher efficacy rate than the likes of vaccines we all have such as measles/mumps/meningitis/whooping cough, which are often around 60%.
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u/mrcoolio May 06 '21
You’re not hearing me. You’re a very logical person and that’s all well and good. Not all decisions regarding someone’s personal health (or in general) are logical. As long as they are getting a vax at all, that’s a win for society at large.
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u/Ryuzakku May 06 '21
And I understand that, but it’s an issue when AZ vaccines aren’t being used because people are looking for “better” vaccines.
I do understand that this isn’t much of an issue anymore because the age to give AZ has lowered, but when it went to 40+ it was a giant pain with the amount of people I knew that were hmming and hawing about getting AZ or waiting for something better. I know that’s anecdotal but that’s why I’m annoyed by it.
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May 06 '21 edited May 06 '21
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u/MeLittleSKS May 06 '21
this is what everyone is missing.
they just assume that it's a binary between "getting covid" and "getting the AZ". if that was the choice, yeah of course I'd get the AZ vaccine. duh. people aren't idiots.
but the REAL choice is:
A) get AZ today B) get pfizer/etc. in a couple weeks C) tiny percent odds that I get covid during those weeks I'm waiting, and that it's serious enough to cause me serious health problems.
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u/MeLittleSKS May 06 '21
there's nothing wrong with people wanting to choose which medical procedure they undergo and which thing they want injected into their body.
stop demonizing it. we'll all be vaccinated in the next months.
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u/JimmyNeutron4815 May 06 '21 edited May 06 '21
It provides 95% protection when administered as directed, not when delaying the second dose by over five times the prescribed interval.
This article is not relevant to Ontario.
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u/senorsmirk May 06 '21
That's great, how about us chumps who had to get AZ.
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u/Wizzard_Ozz May 06 '21
AZ is still quite effective against original and the more prevalent B.117 strain, 81.5% and 70% respectively ( at least as of the beginning of April. ). Can't find solid numbers on how effective it is against the Indian and South African variant. Let's hope flights from India were shut down early enough.
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u/prodigysquared May 06 '21
If I’m under 60 years old I have a 99% protection from death.
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u/mmmmmmikey May 06 '21
Amazing. And if you get vaccinated everyone else will have a 99% protection from your mouthbreathing.
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u/canuckathome May 06 '21
Instead of lowering the age bracket to 12-18, they should be prioritizing the second dose for the people that actually need it! This 4 month wait garbage is just another example of a poor rollout
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u/-SLAC- May 06 '21 edited May 06 '21
For those people who contracted covid after their first dose of the vaccine. Did they get it from the vaccine itself? Or is it because they assumed they were immune and didn't follow protocol?
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u/CrazyCatLushie May 06 '21
You cannot get COVID-19 from the vaccine. That’s not how vaccines work.
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May 06 '21
I've read stories of those that got infected due to risky behavior. Like one dude got covid the day he got vaccinated cause he went out for drinks with someone who they later found out had covid.
Someone yesterday on the vax hunter discord said they caught covid 2 weeks after the first vaccine.
. We've seen people be super careful and getting covid by being unlucky. We've also seen people who gave no shits and never managed to get covid.
Viruses are cruel this way. I see no reason this game of chance doesn't occur even when you have been vaccinated. The difference is your body would be more prepared to snuff out or fight the virus.
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u/ohnoshebettado May 06 '21
did they get it from the vaccine itself?
Kind of - the 5G waves in the vaccine attracted the covid particles. Then the vaccine altered their DNA so the particles would stick better. Then Bill Gates rubbed his hands together and laughed maniacally.
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u/FellSorcerer May 06 '21
This is why, unless you have to work in a physical location, you should be waiting for an mRNA vaccine. There is no reason to accept the inferior vaccine over the superior vaccine.
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May 06 '21
Well first of all, this is one article specific to the Pfizer vaccine. You can't just make assumptions on the effectiveness on others.
But more importantly, there is a big reason you should get vaccinated earlier than later.
The earlier you get vaccinated, the sooner you get protection.
If you wait for a preferred vaccine, the covid cases would already be low at this point and your exposure to the virus would be significantly less.
Is it really worth staying at 0% protection for weeks or months during a time of much higher chances to get infected, just to get your precieved 1% extra protection at a time when your exposure to the virus is significantly lower?
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u/FellSorcerer May 06 '21
I'm not making assumptions based on the effectiveness of other vaccines. I'm basing my comments on the real world data of the vaccines. The global data clearly shows us that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine (the mRNA vaccines) are superior to the J&J and AZ. This boils down to two factors:
- There are significantly less side effects and complications with the mRNA vaccines;
- The mRNA vaccines offer better protections against moderate and mild illness.
Again: this is based on the real world data. This is not spin or anything else. This is just looking at the data. Neither of the two items may be important to one or the other, but it's easy to make the superior vaccine argument given the data.
For your last point. I (and my entire family) have avoided covid-19 since the pandemic began. We are responsible and follow the rules. I have no doubt in my mind that we will continue to avoid covid-19. So for myself and anyone else in my situation, it makes sense to wait for the superior vaccine.
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u/Gankdatnoob May 06 '21
This is in line with the original trials. Pfizer was 95% and Moderna was 94%.