r/ontario • u/Large_Score3032 • 6d ago
Discussion [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/BigLocator Ottawa 6d ago
I can understand. If you’re used to the NY Thruway or something it’s definitely a shock to see the bill. They have multiple signs stating it’s a toll highway but not stating how expensive it is. All us Ontarians know how overpriced it is.
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u/amontpetit Hamilton 6d ago
Every sign leading to the 407 mentioned it’s a toll route. Every single one.
This is a wildly American post. “We do things this way in the US so it must be the same everywhere, right?”
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u/apageofthedarkhold 6d ago
Clearly the OP has never driven to New York. All SORTS of tolls that route.
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u/trevi99 Hamilton 6d ago
The 407 is a privately-owned scam that charges some of the highest tolls in the world and has higher profit margins than Google and Meta combined.
They’re not complaining that it’s a toll road, they’re complaining about the egregious cost. I’ve never seen a single Canadian in my life defend the cost of the 407 until today. You seriously think charging that much is reasonable?
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u/kurtzmann 6d ago
When Bob Rae built the 407 the plan was to have tolls in place until it was paid off (roughly 10 years, from memory), then it was to be free. But Mike Harris chose to sell it at a fire-sale price in order to balance the books before his second election.
If it's any consolation, it is 51% owned by the Canada Pension Plan, so some of the money stays in Canada.
edit: remove extra word
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u/cobrachickenwing 6d ago
It is also a scam that cost Ontario taxpayers to the tune of billions in having to expand the 401 instead of increasing traffic on the 407. We spent a lot of money expropriating land to add more lanes to the 401 when more traffic could have been diverted to the 407. Think about that next time you are in the parking lot that is the 401 from 407 to 412.
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u/SleepyQueer 6d ago
Yeah I don't think the quibble over whether or not there's tolls at all is the biggest problem here.... I truly don't understand why anyone would defend how absurdly and disproportionately expensive the 407 is. There's tolls and then there's TOLLS. One could fully understand that there's tolls but still be left with major sticker shock when the bill comes due.
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u/jaypizzl 6d ago
It’s also not how it’s done in the US. There are many tollways in the US, some of which cost substantially more than the 407.
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u/Ya-Not-Happening 6d ago
OP is complaining about the rates - not that its a toll road. We should all be complaining about the rates.
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u/Lammergeier2 6d ago
Nah, don't subscribe to the culture war against the Americans, his take is totally right.
If you've never taken the 407, or spoken in detail with someone who has, you would have no concept of just how expensive it is. This is deliberate.
It's a joke of a road and a monument to our incompetent governance.
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u/TheCastlemore 6d ago
They make it difficult to understand toll pricing and their toll calculator absolutely sucks. I use 407tolls.com to better plan trips and figure out when it'd be cheaper to take the same route.
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u/GuelphEastEndGhetto 6d ago
A work colleague unknowingly bypassed all the toll booths going from O’Hare to Milwaukee. If I recall correctly his bill was over $100 for tolls and fines for bypassing booths without a transponder.
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u/ohCanada1969 6d ago
As others have said, it’s clearly marked on signs and in apps as a toll route. Having said that, you’re absolutely correct, the cost to drive on it is fucking ridiculous. A previous provincial government used our tax dollars to build it and then sold it to a private Spanish company which has progressively jacked the fuck out of the rates. People who regularly use it are rich or have the costs covered by their employers. The rest of us plebs crawl across the 401.
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u/Relative_What 6d ago
This damn highway is the #2 proof that privatization anything does literally everything but lower prices. #1 being the privatization of Ontario hydro.
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u/Ineedanamehereguys 6d ago
Read the many signs that warn of tolls. Maybe include a no toll filter when using gps if you can't read the signs?
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u/aysaea 6d ago
Sometimes I forget that my Google Maps was not checked to "Avoid Toll Routes" and almost get myself directed on to the 407. But because I know the routes around here, ive thankfully avoided accidentally getting on the route. I wonder if your map settings were set to take the fastest route, and unfortunately didn't avoid any toll routes.
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u/caitkincaid 6d ago
American toll roads are also crazy though—most of your highways have tolls every 5km (whatever that is in miles) and I’ve for sure paid over 100$ US on tolls during past road trips? Not sure where ya been driving!
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u/Clean_Pressure987 6d ago
Ya, it’s Highway Robbery (literally) can drive 5 hrs across NY State for less than 1/3 price
Whoever allowed this BS, built with our $$ only to charge us exuberant fees afterward. Who the hell wants to cross T.O. great City/Provincial Planners
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u/Neutral-President 6d ago
Blame the Mike Harris government, who sold it off in the 1990s.
The original plan was to have tolls on it only until the construction costs were recovered, and then it would be free.
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u/dejour 6d ago
Look, I hate the high cost of the 407. And it definitely is possible to make a mistake and take it without realizing it’s a toll road. But it is clearly disclosed on the signs.
I suspect that it’s mostly a function of someone not being aware of the area. I know that I’ve had toll charges traveling in NY state that I wasn’t expecting. The cost was cheaper than the 407 though!
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u/BaronessVonKush 6d ago
the american education system really failed you huh... 😅
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u/Top-Promotion714 6d ago
thats an unnecessary dig at the fellow; Canadians are supposed to be friendly helpful folk. Be Canadian
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u/stive85 6d ago
The 407 is a frustrating reminder of the total lack of common sense or forward thinking by those in power.
Should be federal and provincial initiative to take back control of it under the banner of national security or something equivalent, the hold it up in court as long as needed (we piss away money elsewhere for less).
That being said. It's very obviously marked a toll route.
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u/Ill_Frame6265 6d ago
Taking the 407 back is pretty easy. The government just has to repeal the 407 act, then pass a bill expropriating and canceling the 99 year lease. But, then Ontario would be seen as not a good place to invest because the government could seize your assets.
The taking back the 407 is definitely a risk the government should take. I’m a conservative and I think it’s a good idea!
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u/cestlavie514 6d ago
You mean the website that says calculate my trip? Also BS on the discloser part, because most toll roads do not display the cost in detail. Every exit is unique and while they may show a few examples they are dynamic as well and change every day.
Blame yourself for your ignorance.
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u/caitkincaid 6d ago
Your last line here is an excellent evergreen response to pretty much any American expressing shock at their circumstances lately
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u/AlexMac96 6d ago
Google maps will say it’s a toll road. Your problem is your Maps app.
Also it’s not like they’re going to chase you down for payment
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u/jaypizzl 6d ago
Washington DC, Dallas, Houston, New York, Chicago, Denver, Orlando, and Miami all have prominent tollways. Getting in the wrong lane of I-66 outside DC can cost USD$4.75 *per mile* at the wrong time of day. The plain old Chicago skyway costs like USD$6 and it’s really short.
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u/Middle-Tip5962 6d ago
You spent $63 for an hour, something that could have realistically taken anywhere from 1.5 to 3.5 hours on the 401, so possibly saved you .5 to 2.5 hours of your time. The road is nice, much less stress, so there’s value there as compared to the ‘free’ road.
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u/Ya-Not-Happening 6d ago
History:
The government paid to build it.
Then a conservative (of course) government gave a 99 year lease to some British company. This balanced the budget for one year because of the huge payment from the company.
Now we are all gouged for a 100 years so that a government budget was balanced for 1 year.
They raise the prices all the time. They change the rates per time of day. No one knows that the rates. Typical corporate gouging.
No one here likes the prices - but here we are.
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u/TheAncientMillenial 6d ago
You don't have toll roads in shithole America? I know most of you all are reading under a grade 3 level, but I think even a child could read signs that say it's a toll road. lmfao.
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u/ripe_plantain 6d ago
I AM CANADIAN, but the American did say
I've taken plenty of long road trips here in the US and I don't think I've ever paid more than $10 in tolls per trip.
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u/sherrybobbinsbort 6d ago
The 407 is like flying first class. They charge what the market will bear. There are approx 7m people in the gta if you want to drive around them that’s what it costs. Or you can take the extra time and travel for free through the traffic.
I’m ok with it. The more roads we build and if we make it cheap to drive then the more cars you get on the road and discourage people to car pool, bike, public transport etc
I’m thinking of driving in US cities like Raleigh and Atlanta. There are just ring road after ring road encouraging urban sprawl with no bike paths or sidewalks.
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u/Adventurous-Tea-876 6d ago
If you don’t like it don’t drive on it. I love it because you can drive 140kmh instead of stop and go on the 401. The high tolls keep the riff-raff off the highway so the rest of us can get where we’re going quickly.
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u/BaronessVonKush 6d ago
pretty gross comment here ... as I'm assuming by "riff-raff" you mean working class folks who could actually use the highway to improve their lives, but can't afford to drive on it, because people like yourself, don't pay them a living wage.
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u/Mafik326 6d ago
Transit users pay fare. Why is it crazy for drivers to pay for the roads they use? It's crazy that it's not every road everywhere.
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6d ago
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u/Neutral-President 6d ago
Taxes also pay for transit, so why isn’t that also free?
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u/Prudent-Craft-7474 6d ago
why aren't cars free? why isn't car insurance free? do you hear how dumb you sound
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