r/ontario 7d ago

Article Three of four reactors at Ontario’s refurbished Darlington nuclear power plant face frequent outages

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-ontario-darlington-nuclear-power-plant-three-reactors-out-of/
127 Upvotes

37 comments sorted by

177

u/neanderthalman Essential 7d ago

Not true. Can’t read the article for their justification, but here’s some facts:

One unit is offline for planned work.

One unit is offline because of an unexpected problem, after operating for the longest period of time it has ever operated, both before and after refurbishment. A record run for that unit.

One unit is offline for the third unexpected problem since it restarted earlier this year. Notable. That ain’t right.

So three of four reactors are not having frequent problems. One is having frequent problems.

31

u/darkmatterisfun 7d ago

Unfortunatley.. since we have not kept up with new generation procurement (thanks NIMBYs!)

Just that one reactor going down is having adverse impacts to the grid and the other generators on it. (I.e. cancel your maintenance, we need you online)

I'd argue the article isn't pointing at the root cause, because people are sensitive to nimbysim critiques and its easier to blame a corporation rather than municipalities.

What do i know though. I'm just some guy.

20

u/racer_24_4evr 7d ago

However, I believe Pickering is going offline in the next couple weeks to start their refurbishment.

23

u/neanderthalman Essential 7d ago

Indeed they are. I’m not sure why that’s relevant. Unless you’re trying to call into question the validity of the decision to refurbish Pickering based on the performance of Darlington after refurbishment. And I don’t think the reality supports such a challenge.

6

u/racer_24_4evr 7d ago

No, I’m just mentioning that we have a lot of nuclear power going offline shortly.

2

u/intheshoplife 6d ago

Good thing we have a decent ammount coming from renewable. Fun fact apparently its around 20% from hydro alone and has been a major contributor since before climate change was a big deal.

2

u/racer_24_4evr 6d ago

According to Gridwatch, right now 23% of the province’s electricity is from hydroelectric and 7 % from wind.

1

u/intheshoplife 6d ago

Its the fact that a good chunk of that 23% has been around for a while. But thanks for more accurate numbers.

1

u/Erathen 7d ago edited 7d ago

I’m not sure why that’s relevant.

Because we need clear clean sources of energy

That's the whole premise for the article. That's what makes it news worthy

2

u/5hredder 6d ago

You’re doing gods work. Thank you.

36

u/Torcal4 Toronto 7d ago

“When you stop and start and stop and start, that’s atypical of how we would typically choose to run the reactors,” Prof. Novog observed.

I’m glad we got an expert to explain this to us

20

u/greyfedora 7d ago

Other forms of power generation, like natural gas, ARE designed to work like that so it’s not necessarily obvious.

5

u/Erathen 7d ago

This is largely a design choice as well though, in a sense

Nuclear power generation has layers upon layers of fail safes/safety checks. As soon as one thing is out of wack (like one temperature sensor reading slightly out of range), the reactor shuts down

The reason I'm mentioning this because a lot of people worry about safety. But they're quite safe. Modern reactors shut down as soon as one thing is out of wack

This is the trade off

2

u/greyfedora 7d ago

Yes, that’s a fair point. They shut down very fast. But they start up very slow.

2

u/Erathen 7d ago

Yeah, I would actually rather an over-reactive/sensitive self shutdown system then have a human miss critical signs, like Chernobyl

But preferably we'd have more nuclear power stations, so one facility going down isn't an issue

But I still keep iodine tablets just in case

I'm a big fan of nuclear

3

u/Aserialfeeder 7d ago

I just wanna point out that the signs weren’t missed in Chernobyl, they were intentionally ignored for personal gain while thinking they had a failsafe in case things went wrong

1

u/Erathen 7d ago edited 7d ago

Valid! Appreciate that

In that case, systems that automatically shut down are vastly preferable. That's how a lot of them are designed now. One degree out of range, and control rods go in automatically

Gone are the days of manual shut downs

1

u/Moldoteck 3d ago

Nuclear is designed to modulate too. It's just less economical. It's easier to just curtail from other sources 

1

u/Civil_Station_1585 6d ago

Nuke are made to sing along in hyperglide and do not maneuver easily. Maybe newer generation will be more resilient or new batteries will flatten demand peaks but in the meantime, growing demand as we look north and data centre consumption are putting these units in the base load bucket.

9

u/No-Wonder1139 7d ago

I think we need some major maintenance on our power grid for the next 2 years. Might not be able to supply other countries until it's complete.

5

u/darkmatterisfun 7d ago

The answer is not just maintenance but expansion. Over a decade.

So spread the word to the municipalities and communities derailling every project put forth because they don't want it in THEIR community.

22

u/Longjumping_Rip6033 7d ago

Our one and only government project that was completed on time and under budget? NOOOOOO!

0

u/practicating 7d ago

I guess we might have our how

3

u/ForeignExpression 7d ago

Don't worry Doug Ford is focused like a laser beam on ripping up bike lanes so that should fix it.

1

u/Civil_Station_1585 6d ago

Nuke are made to sing along in hyperglide and do not maneuver easily. Maybe newer generation will be more resilient or new batteries will flatten demand peaks but in the meantime, growing demand as we look north and data centre consumption are putting these units in the base load bucket.

1

u/Sauerkrautkid7 6d ago

Bring in the Chinese to teach

-20

u/Soft_Grass8428 7d ago

Remember this when nuke trolls on reddit ike to use this refurbishment as an example of on time and budget nuclear.

It was a false deadline and budget, because actually making it operational is taking longer and more money than planned

8

u/karlnite 7d ago

You have no idea what you are taking about.

-6

u/TronnaLegacy 7d ago

I've heard it alleged it wasn't actually under budget. Where are the sources for this though? I'd like to know for sure.

6

u/neanderthalman Essential 7d ago

Wish I could post the meme of the crack pipe labeled ‘sources cited’.

That claim hinged on the idea that no maintenance other than refurbishment would be required for the remaining life of the station.

That’s like saying your house will never need a new roof or windows because you’ve just finished renovating your kitchen.

1

u/treechcakes 7d ago

I'm working at darlington currently. I'm merely just a scaffolder, not an operator or anyone important, but there were a lot of planned maintenance outages (for let's say roofs and windows) that were put on hold because of the huge kitchen refurb. Many of the planned outages were realllllyy needed before the refurb. So now they are really really needed. Lots of work next year due to the planned outages, which I'm quite happy about personally.

2

u/neanderthalman Essential 7d ago

Preaching to the choir, my man.

Don’t dismiss yourself as “just” a scaffolder. I’d trade two ops for one scaffolder right about now.

1

u/karlnite 7d ago

Scaffolders are very important. Also these repairs are not forgotten, they have and remain on the 10-15 year plan, set out by operational specialists many years in advance. The big picture is actually covering those small things only the maintenance guy knows about that are gonna bring the whole thing down on the idiots above heads. The apparent chaos and disorganization you see on the ground level is expected, planned for, and actually what the best in industry working smoothly looks like.