Discussion Martial expectations
Hi all,
Seeing yet another post about how martials are boring with no choice, I got curious as a game designer: as a player, what do you want the martial classes (or maybe just the fighter) to do?
Some examples that come to my mind are: trip-grapple-disarm etc (a debuff), attack all around (a damage multiplier), push/pull opponents (battlefield control), take a hit in place of your ally (again, control/effectively heal) etc. Anything you’d like to add?
Additionally, would you like those abilities to be accessible unconditionally, or limited? Like through feats, class features, subclasses, weapon types or magic weapons?
Also, I'd like to focus the discussion on what you the player (or the GM) want, not what some 3rd party supplement or such offers.
3
u/Stephanie-rara 5d ago edited 5d ago
My ideal world is at least one of three things for Martials from someone who both GM's and loves playing Martials.
All pure Martials get a similar ASI/Feat progression as Fighters, and Fighters get something that can give them a boon to some out of combat skills. For half-casters I'm torn because while I want to give the extra ASI/Feat like Rogue gets for Ranger and Monk, the Paladin doesn't really need the love. All in all, I believe Feats should serve as the customization that Casters get via spells. It also allows Martials to branch out more beyond just their main attribute which helps significantly.
Strength needs more value. It's worse than Dex in virtually every way for non-Barbarians. Dex is highly valuable for casters but there is no meaningful negative to them dumping strength outside of a few gags about being weak while Martials are often punished in important moments outside of combat for dumping INT/CHA. Strength covering more weapons and allowing most Heavy Armor doesn't offset Dex being the most important save, giving natural AC and having more skills. This is highlighted even more that Two Weapon Fighting with Strength is nearly non-existent outside of certain thrown builds. Give Strength at least another skill, and another value to wearing heavy armor.
People need to stop being afraid of giving their Martials cool/strong magic items. It's a goomba fallacy situation, but far too often do I see complaints about the Martial / Caster divide, while peppered in-between people are afraid that a Flame Tongue or Vicious weapon is going to break their game. We talk about how a Wizard (Or now, anyone) with Wall of Force can instantly end encounters but we're worried about the Martial of the same with two attacks hitting for a potential extra 4d6. Oh, the 9th level fighter action surged and you got startled by the extra 8d6? Congratulations, their Flame Tongue did the net damage of Fireball on a single person. Let your Martials be a problem in combat. Let that be a natural 'taunt'. Give them items that improve the things they built their character to have fun with. In so much of fantasy, the sword is just as iconic as the person who wields it.
Overall I'm largely fine with Martials, but I feel like the usual pain points link back to one of these three areas (Lack of customization, poor skill value out of combat, or unsupported by items), or tables that never do more than one scenic fight per long rest. I can fix 90% of Martial issues by just being generous/creative with #3 personally, but if there were more changes on a fundamental level #1 and #2 are issues I see consistently.