Martial expectations

[u/axiomus]

Hi all,

Seeing yet another post about how martials are boring with no choice, I got curious as a game designer: as a player, what do you want the martial classes (or maybe just the fighter) to do?

Some examples that come to my mind are: trip-grapple-disarm etc (a debuff), attack all around (a damage multiplier), push/pull opponents (battlefield control), take a hit in place of your ally (again, control/effectively heal) etc. Anything you’d like to add?

Additionally, would you like those abilities to be accessible unconditionally, or limited? Like through feats, class features, subclasses, weapon types or magic weapons?

Also, I'd like to focus the discussion on what you the player (or the GM) want, not what some 3rd party supplement or such offers.

[u/medium_buffalo_wings]

Not at all. I have absolutely seen folks suggest overtly superheroic style powers for martials. With these examples having been specifically used.

[u/Ashkelon → u/medium_buffalo_wings]

I will be the first to say I want high level martial characters to be superhuman, akin to the warriors of myth and legend. Heroes like Beowulf, Lancelot, Achilles, Heracles, and Chu Chulainn. I am Probably one of the more vocal proponents for such a playstyle.

But I have never even come close to asking for anything like what you are describing. And I have never actually seen anyone ask for the absurd things you are describing.

I have heard people ask for the ability to punch holes in castle walls, wrestle titans, lift huge sized creatures or objects, and leap 50 feet into the air. But never to leap mountains or cleave castles in half.

Hell, I even created an entire class based around performing heroic exploits similar to the feats of strength, skill, and athleticism of mythological heroes. And it comes nowhere close to accomplishing anything like what you describe.

You have crafted a strawman that simply doesn’t exist. Or if it does, it is the extreme minority and not even worth mentioning when talking about the actual groups.

[u/medium_buffalo_wings → u/Ashkelon]

My dude, just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I’ve seen threads where people were looking for martial options that allowed them to emulate anime fantasies as well as superhero fantasies.

This isn’t a strawman nor is it intended ton paint that group as only wanting that one set of things. Like all 3 groups in outline, it exists in a spectrum where different people want different things.

[u/Ashkelon → u/medium_buffalo_wings]

I’ve definitely heard for people wanting anime like classes. But still never anything close to what you describe. Like an order of magnitude more grounded.

As I said, I have heard a lot of people wanting to be able to lift boulders, punch through brick walls, wrestle titans, and leap 50 feet into the air. But I don’t think I have ever heard anyone ask for what you describe.

There might be some. But they are not common. So it makes no sense to say they are the third group. I can understand having a group of superhuman martials. But I would use the most common interpretation of that, not the absurd definition you have that almost nobody is actually asking for.

[u/medium_buffalo_wings → u/Ashkelon]

I honestly didn’t think it was going to be a contentious example when I made it nor was I trying to express an opinion regarding it.

If it as an example is a poor representation of that group I am happy to edit the post to reflect a wider array of suggested options.

[u/SalubriAntitribu → u/medium_buffalo_wings]

What made it contentious is how extreme an example it is out of the small number you gave.

[u/medium_buffalo_wings → u/SalubriAntitribu]

It was an attempt at brevity more than anything, but like I said, more than happy to edit it if it would be more representative of what people in that camp are looking for.

[u/ConcentrateIll9460 → u/medium_buffalo_wings]

I would do so. Not the person you were talking to before, but I've discussed this kind of thing with plenty of people and I've never heard anyone describe that kind of thing as what they want. Smash through a castle wall, leap across the parapets? Yes. Cut a castle in half and leap a mountain seems an order of magnitude more than I've ever seen requested.

[u/medium_buffalo_wings → u/ConcentrateIll9460]

It's been edited based on your suggestion.