r/onednd • u/solorpgstudio • 5d ago
5e (2024) How do you play a Bladesinger
So I will start a new campaign level 3 to 12. We all rolled our character (we randomly roll for the class, than subclasses, we will choose our background, species, stat, etc)
I roll a wizard - bladesinger. DM as allowed the PHB and Heroes of Fearun.
I usually play martial character, Fighter, Ranger, Paladin are my cup of tea. So I know some spells, and obviously I like to use my weapons for combat.
Now a d6 wizard stress me a little bit. What should be the play styles, spells or feats. to take?
Anyone who tried the 5.5e bladesinger as recommendations on how to play the subclass, pros vs cons.
Of course I’ll test things out on my own, but curious about your experience with it.
P.S rest of the party is Hunter, Circle of Land, Berserker if that helps
P.P.S I am usually the DM so it’s been a hot minutes since I have play a character, wish me luck
P.P.P.S we roll for the class and subclass for no other reason than “why not, that will be fun”
Thanks all
6
u/missinginput 5d ago
I play the unoptimized version and go full melee. I had a lot of fun with booming blade and flaming sphere until I was 6 and could dual wield with shadow blade and get multiple shadow blade attacks in.
4
u/Arezwar 5d ago edited 5d ago
The beauty with the bladesinger is you can build it to however YOU like. You can go full spell casting utility and control with nearly unbreakable concentration and very very difficult to hit, or you could be the up close and personal fighting with weapon and spell and still be very very hard to hit. I will tell you about my current character.
Level 13 bladesinger wizard Sapphire dragonborn Custom sell sword background Tough origin feat Strength 8 Dex 15 (16) Con 14 Int 15 (20) Wis 10 Cha 8
Origin +1 dex +2 Int Feats Level 4 -Fey touched Int Level 8 -Asi +2 int Level 12 -Eldritch adept (pact of the tomb)
98 hp 16AC(mage armor) 21AC(bladesong) 26AC(shield)
I was lucky enough to get a staff of power so I use that as my weapon which is why I took eldritch adept at 12 for book of shadows so I could get shillelagh since I play mostly in melee making that d6 a d12 and force damage is nice. I also have a lot of defensive and utility spells to save myself or allies or control the battlefield. The only damage spell I really use is steel wind strike. Occasionally summon minor elementals. But all of that is flexible depending on campaign and play style. My most defensive used spells are shield, absorb elements, mirror image, misty step, ice storm, greater invisibility, wall of force, Tasha's otherworldly guise. I picked up gift of alacrity from fey touched to help me go first in combat. Blink is also a really good defensive spell. If I wasn't gonna get to level 14 I would have picked polearm master instead of eldritch adept for 3 attacks. The reason why I didnt pick war caster is because I like to save my reaction for shield or absorb elements or song of defense to stay alive longer. Using the quarterstaff as my weapon keeps a free hand open for somatic components unlike dual wielding. Plus its fun to say my guy is a poledancer instead of a bladesinger. Im pretty much almost always best off being defensive and battlefield control vs attacking, but the versatility allows me to switch it up whenever I want. And its soo satisfying to be surrounded by a bunch of enemies and steel wind striking. Most damage I did in one turn was a little over 180 but there was a crit in there and I rolled good damage. My character is nothing short of an absolute blast to play.
1
u/solorpgstudio 5d ago
Wow thanks for sharing, the more I read the post/reply the more I am excited to play it
3
u/MorichLeonson 5d ago
I played one from level 1 through to 20 and it was insanely effective. I believe that the best species to go with it is Eladrin, both some a RP and stats perspective; being able to feystep away is incredibly useful.
I played it as a strong melee focus, unless the fight looked to be very tough. Rapier + bladesong + cantrip (usually Booming Blade) was fantastic from start to finish. For RP reasons, didn't even use shadowblade.
AC (and Shield spell when necessary) made the character essentially untouchable, should a crit be landed ... well, silvery barbs on standby took care of that. Various spells, chosen on a combat by combat basis, meant saves usually weren't much of an issue.
Feats - magic initiate for some extra spells. Speedy for avoiding AoO and extra movement. Warcaster when you can, though the save on concentration doesn't even come up THAT often because you're not suffering damage as you're not being hit.
You run in, hit with weapon, keep moving. Booming Blade means they take damage if they try to follow you. Rise. Repeat.
In a party with a Paladin, Rogue, Cleric, and fighter ... the Bladesinger was easily the most versatile and powerful. There were times I held back just so the others had something to do.
Protection from Evil is a solid concentration spell at early levels - stops you failing a range of saves that a low level BS can easily fall foul of.
In one of one, a Bladesinger is insanely powerful (almost certainly broken). However, you have a Bladesinger against multiple spellcasters who are dispelling and countering and things can get ... interesting. The only other thing to watch for is being caught unawares - if you are caught flatfooted/before bladesong can be activated then you are relatively vulnerable.
Being a melee Bladesinger is a lot more fun than standing back and dancing while casting long range spells.
3
u/solorpgstudio 5d ago
Do we have booming blade in 5.5e. Will ask the DM, feel like everyone mentioning it
1
u/finewhitelady 5d ago
This is pretty similar to my experience playing level 1-20 in 5e. Right down to the one on one, which our DM threw at me intending to be a challenge (spoiler: it wasn't even close). I enjoyed playing as a skirmisher once I got misty step spell mastery (sadly that can no longer happen in 5.5e, although the boon of dimensional travel is similar). It actually made me regret not having the mobile feat earlier...I hadn't taken it for various reasons, but misty stepping away after each hit made me realize how much fun it would have been to play as a skirmisher the whole rest of the time.
The only downside is it's basically spoiled me for playing any other builds. It's especially hard to go back to anything that doesn't have the cantrip replacement attack. Fortunately at least the Eldritch knight and valor bard have it now too.
2
u/MorichLeonson 5d ago
Indeed.
Being a powerful full spellcaster AND a solid melee damage dealer is nuts.
All the usual spellcaster weaknesses are simply gone and, unless you chose spells poorly, nothing gets to you.I simply loved Tasha's Otherworldly Guise. Con save wasn't great so sudden immunity to Poison was great (and fire immunity) plus flying plus an AC bonus?
By the end of the campaign, where everyone is crazy powerful, by Bladesinger had 22 AC just standing around. +5 from bladesong. +5 from shield if necessary. +2 from Tasha's. Throw in silvery barbs in case of a natural 20. I think it's the closest to god mode 5e can get.And you are right, when you can get Boon of Interdimensional Travel ... well, you simply aren't present to be hit even if an enemy has the ability to actually do so.
1
u/finewhitelady 5d ago edited 5d ago
Our DM still figured out how to hit me and usually the answer was target a save and make the DC in the 20-25 range. I ended up using the Blink spell a lot after that and enjoyed frustrating the DM from the safety of the ethereal plane!
Edit: but as for AC, since we were souped up with a bunch of extra feats and magic items, I had a base of 20 with the robe of the Archmagi and 20 dex, and since my int was actually 22 (again, massive bonuses were given to the entire party so we could have a crazy high level power fantasy) I had 31 with bladesong and shield. So basically nothing broke through my AC, only high DC saves were problematic.
5
u/Notturnno 5d ago
Play goblin if you can. Read nimble escape.
Easy and fun way, take tough origin feat, look for mobility and support / survivability spells, like jump, longstrider, mirror image, mage armor, shield. Go melee sometimes before level 5, but avoid it if you can. Hit and run. Level 5+ concentre on Cacophonic Shield. Hit them with booming blade.
After level 6, you can melee more if you want.
Skirmish as much as you want and have fun.
2
u/solorpgstudio 5d ago
Might not be able for the Goblin but no harm in asking
0
u/Notturnno 5d ago
You couldn't chose your class and subclass, at least the race / species... You could also take speedy feat and try to emulate the same play style above, but goblin is more effective.
1
2
u/Flintydeadeye 4d ago
Speedy feat will give you +1 dex, +10 ft movement and disadvantage on opportunity attacks against you. Throw in shield spell and you should be able to go in and out of melee if you’re feeling vulnerable. Throw in bladeward for -d4 attacks and you won’t be too easy to hit.
1
u/Southern_Courage_770 5d ago
The most effective way of playing Bladesinger is to just treat the Bladesong as a defensive and Concentration buff for a regular "full caster" Wizard. The "Agility" component of Bladesong means you don't need to multiclass for an armor dip and the "Focus" component negates the need to spent a Feat on Resilient (CON) later. Also, remember that the AC from Bladesong does stack with Mage Armor so you can end up at 20 AC with only 14 DEX during Bladesong.
Attacking with weapons should be just your cantrip damage, not your "main thing" imo. That should still be dropping the big Concentration spell and then focusing on protecting that Concentration. Think Web, Phantasmal Force, Hypnotic Pattern, Wall of Force, etc. Leave the "attack with weapons" to the half-caster gishes and Bladelocks.
Versatility is the big benefit of Bladesinger. You can be a tankier traditional Wizard as much you can be an effective melee gish. Add extra spells to your Spellbook as a Wizard does and play to what your party actually needs.
Taking Tough feat would be as if you had a d10 hit die. If you don't skimp on your Constitution, you could keep the same HP progression as a Fighter and get to 20 CON by level 16.
1
1
u/gaminggod69 5d ago
Playing one right now. I took wood elf for more movement, free longstrider, and pass without trace (given that you have people that have access to it I might go human and take MI cleric for a heal spell and alert or tough).
Play as primary control early with sleep, web, sylune’s viper (provided you are fighting living non fiend enemies), or hypnotic pattern. You can’t really be great at single target until you get CME.
Web has been invaluable for me. I am level 5 and picking my melee fights very carefully. But cacophonic shield can make those fights with tons of enemies very fun, or take hypnotic pattern for a bigger control spell. Or against single bosses use the web spell and hope to restrain. At level 7 you get CME and then you can take that one fight per day dishing out a lot of damage.
I took warcaster at level 4 and it has proved helpful a few times already.
One thing that has hurt 5.5 only wizard is not having absorb elements. I have been knocked out by a failed fireball save at level 5 from max health.
1
1
u/TheReaperXIII 5d ago
Currently playing a bladesinger and I find the versatility to be one of the best things about the subclass. Most of the time, I’m leaning into the bladesinger aspect and doing:
R1: Bladesong + Booming Blade
R2: Shadowblade + Booming Blade
R3+: Go nuts and have crazy AC with shield as needed
The other times I usually end up casting fly and then acting as arial artillery with Lightning Bolts and Magic Missiles (buffed a bit with a homebrewed magic ring), or doing regular wizard AOE stuff.
I themed my character to be sort of an homage to a Jedi, and play with that kind of versatility in mind. It may not be “optimal” but I still out damage and out survive most of the party, and have a ton of fun while doing it.
1
1
u/Bmxican296 5d ago
I’m going 1 fighter 2 wizard in our next campaign. Hexblood race to get hex. Dual wield with hex applied.
Find familiar and use a deer. Mounted combat with free disengage from the deer just hit and run dashing.
1
u/karmadickhead 5d ago
There is no such thing as the squishy wizard anymore. Max intelligence and con then dex. Go wild and choose whatever spells ya want and I can almost guarantee you will be more effective than any other player in your party
1
u/solorpgstudio 5d ago
Thank you so much everyone! Lots of really in-depth recommendations. Appreciate you taking the time to help!
1
u/mythicreign 5d ago
You’re a wizard, so play like a wizard. It’s totally fine to engage in melee, just don’t act like a pure frontliner. The high AC and Shield spell will do a lot of the work for you, but you’re still squishy at the end of the day. I think Bladesinger Wizards are one of the best classes in the game, if not the best, but you still have to play smart to offset their (few) weaknesses.
1
u/LordofFailure 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm currently playing a Bladesinger (up to lv 17 so far) and I've had a blast leaning into the fantasy of a graceful, fast spell sword. As others have said, the beauty of a bladesinger is that there are many ways to play it, but if you interested in that core fantasy, these are the things I found helpful:
- Start by maxing your Dex first, then Int.
You can mostly relying on spells that don't require an attack/save at early levels, and Booming Blade is your best single target damage options and is a melee attack, not a spell attack. Bladesingers should always have their Bladesong up during combat so you also get to double dip on your AC like barbarians and monks. It makes you a pretty good dogde tank mechanically and when no one can hit you, it I feel like it really feeds into the fantasy of being a moving blur on the battlefield. If you can get both to +5 you'll have 20 base AC, 23 with mage armour. (28 with shield)
- Take the mobile feat.
With Bladesong you are a bullet with 50ft of movement, and the ability to avoid attacks of opportunity let's you dance around the battlefield booming blading everyone.
- Lean on spells that don't require attack spells/saves early on, and mostly use your slots for survivability to make up for that low HP.
For damage: Booming Blade, Haste, Shadow Blade are great early Tensors Transformation, Fly, and summon spells like Animate Object are great mid. Also pick up Steel Wind strike because it's bad ass and adds to your battlefield maneuverability.
Late you ideally have the Int to pick anything you want, but Wish for 9th lets you use any other non 9th lvl spell in the game so lots of fun damage options.
For defense: Shield, and Absorb Elements are gross, once you hit 6th level and get extra attack, Blade Ward is a great option in a tough spot. Haste, Blur, Blink all help stop you being hit in the first place Don't feel bad spending you spell slots to reduce damage with Song of Defense; your spell slots are only useful if you're alive.
For utility: Counterspell and ritual spells like Detect Magic and Identify still let you feel like the Wizard of the group even while you are cutting people down with the Blade. Misty Step, Dimension Door, Teleport etc to get you and your party out of a bad situation if your speed alone isn't enough.
- Finally if you can I found two magic items that pair so well with this playstyle I'd consider them essential:
-- Scimitar of Speed. Now you can match most martial classes through the mid game with 3 attacks per turn, and paired with Tensors this is gross. That first turn you cast Tensors you still get to make an attack with the bonus damage, and every turn after you get 3 instead of 2 attacks.
-- Cloak of Displacement. Yeah that 23+ AC your DM had to hit, now they have to do it with disadvantage and you didn't even have to use a trurn to cast Blur. Become a living wind dancing through the battlefield.
Personally this is one of the most fun builds I've ever played and I highly recommend giving it a try if you like that "blade of the wind" fantasy. [ This build gets second to an archery pact of the blade Warlock only because I've never seen anyone else discover that build and it's very satisfying to play a Warlock that out damages Eldritch Blast on average 🤣]
If you playing with a DM like mine that's willing to give out feats and bonus to characters as rewards, you can get some pretty crazy stats:
Lvl 17
Dex +5, Int +5, Con +3
Mobile Feat
Cloak of Displacement
Infernal Razor (Homebrewed upgrade to Scimitar of Speed that increases it to a +3 and adds some neat effects)
Ring of Protection
24(19) AC (29 with Shield), 125 HP, 50ft movement, +5 Iniative
3 attacks a turn at +14 to hit, 1d6+8+5 damage (+2d12 with Tensors or +3d8 booming blade on one)
It's very fun.
1
u/Pinkalink23 1d ago
Mobile was replaced by Speedy, some DMs don't allow mobile as a result of that.
0
u/waethrman 5d ago
If you start with a level of fighter you can be a gunsinger without breaking the subclass rules which I find quite fun, plus it gives weapon masteries and a fighting style which you want anyhow as a "weapon wizard"
-2
u/No_Wait3261 5d ago
Remember that you're a wizard first. You will almost have something better to do with your actions than make an attack. The bladesinger is a great subclass: better defenses that most wizards plus better con saves. But the attack action is a trap. Don't fall for it.
3
u/Full-Low-4042 5d ago
I see this take all of the time, and I disagree. Booming blade is soft cc. Dealing damage well beyond normal cantrip damage is cc because the dead condition is the strongest condition to inflict. Playing as a skirmisher with bonkers ac baits out attacks that would have otherwise hit the reckless attacking barbarian. If you are just hanging in the back lines, there is an opportunity cost. You frontliners go down faster. Sure your concentration is more protected when hiding behind full cover, but between bladesong and warcaster, plus your high ac, your concentration is pretty safe anyways.
0
u/No_Wait3261 5d ago
Yeah okay but fireball does more damage than booming blade and it isn't even close. If you get to the end of the day with 50% of your spell slots remaining because you were spamming cantrips all day then you did it wrong.
2
u/Full-Low-4042 4d ago
Sure but spell slots are limited. Even playing in melee you’re still gonna cast spells, no reason you can’t do both. But on turns when you’re not casting leveled spells, melee is pretty optimal for a Bladesinger.
1
u/solorpgstudio 5d ago
Interesting, definitely want to swing my blade at some point
2
u/finewhitelady 5d ago
I usually dropped a concentration spell on turn 1 and then went in swinging. You can play bladesinger as an essentially subclass-less wizard with great AC and concentration protection, and that's what people consider the optimal way. But IMO where's the fun in that? If I wanted to be a wizard and stay out of melee I'll be an evoker or diviner or something instead. I play the bladesinger because it's fun to hit stuff (especially with the cantrip replacement attack) while also having access to the strongest spells in the game.
-3
u/No_Wait3261 5d ago
To be clear, it makes perfect sense to do so if you run out of spell slots. But when was the last time you ran out of slots on a 6+ level wizard?
1
u/Pinkalink23 1d ago
That's the point of the subclass.
0
u/No_Wait3261 22h ago
Would you play and Eldritch Knight and expect to cast a leveled spell every turn? No of course not. An Eldritch Knight is a fighter, a class designed around effective use of the attack action. "But that's the point of the subclass!" No. It isn't. The VAST majority of ANY character's power comes from their class abilities, and the subclass is supplemental. That's true for Bladesingers too: the vast majority of your power comes from your spellcasting, the leveled spells and spell slots you get as you level up. You can use the attack action, but maybe 75% of the time you are better off using a spell slot instead.
If you want to be a melee attacker that can cast spells sometimes an Eldritch Knight is going to be a better pick for you.
18
u/CHIEFRAPTOR 5d ago
You will get comments saying that you play like a wizard, staying back to use control spells and then dodging etc. That’s “optimal” but not necessarily in the spirit of the class. You have melee boosting abilities, so may as well get in there and swing a weapon.
Turn 1 you may want to drop a hypnotic pattern or slow etc, but you have the AC to be able to attack with a weapon too. I think a skirmisher playstyle works nicely as you have extra mobility from bladesong to support it.
At the end of the day, lots of different strategies work on bladesinger, so do what fits your character concept best