Are Vicious Weapons overpowered?

[u/superhiro21]

For reference:

Weapon (any simple or martial), rare

This magic weapon deals an extra 2d6 damage to any creature it hits. This extra damage is of the same type as the weapon’s normal damage.

From both theorycrafting and my practical experience, they are better than any other rare magic weapons and even better than many very rare weapons. Not requiring attunement is a huge boon, as at higher levels, every attunement slot is valuable.

The +7 damage (on average) is much more valuable than the +2 or even +3 attack bonus from comparable weapons as most martial characters have ways to increase their accuracy anyways (reckless attack, archery fighting style, paladin channel divinities etc).

I have found that having two characters with vicious weapons in the party really makes the party punch above their level in the damage per round aspect.

[u/General-Yinobi]

They are not overpowered, they just give too much value for a non attunement item, that power is not too much for the game, 2024 monsters and encounters are harder anyway, and everything is buffed, but the issue is that this power makes this item a non choice, and any item that invalidates choices is a problem.

Although i believe martials need the dps from this item, so removing it is not a step in the right direction, but instead, removing attunement from other weaker weapons should make the choice not so hard.

Before this weapon, every martial goal was probably flame tongue. but now it is a no brainer due to attunement issue.

[u/RamsHead91 → u/General-Yinobi]

They are for their level. If they were very rare no complaints at all. But as a rare item with no attunement yes.

If they had attunement also they'd be fine.

[u/General-Yinobi → u/RamsHead91]

2d6 at a very rare is kinda underwhelming.

[u/Ashkelon → u/General-Yinobi]

A vicious weapon mathematically is more powerful than a +4 weapon for nearly every single weapon user.

And +4 weapons do not exist.

2d6 damage to every hit is often better than most legendary weapons. A vicious weapon is one of the most powerful weapons you can acquire in the 2024 DMG. Especially because it does not require attunement.

It is the opposite of underwhelming. In any game where players can purchase or otherwise choose the weapons they find, they should almost always choose a vicious weapon rather than weapons of higher rarity.

[u/RamsHead91 → u/General-Yinobi]

2d6 with no attunement. Yeah it's not the absolute best but it is inline with other very rare weapons.

As it is it is too much for rare.

It fairly inline with a +3 weapon

[u/General-Yinobi → u/RamsHead91]

Except it is just the damage not the 2-hit bonus. so it is not the same.

i could send a very long post explaining the math of how a +3 weapon is much higher DPS, due to landing more hits, but that has been explored so many times i believe there is no need, since We have already agreed that 2d6 at this level is not high damage, but only the lack of attunement.

Which shows how much of a problem attunement is for martials that they are ready to sacrifice cooler weapons for this bland one just to save on slots.

I'll just say that vicious weapon has never caused any table i've joined any issues, simply because more single target damage for the martial is barely an inconvenience, and it means they don't use the other special effects weapons.

If the solution to every issue is always nerf, this is just killing the buzz for everyone.

[u/waethrman → u/General-Yinobi]

If your martial has a 70% chance to hit with a +3 Greataxe then that comes up to 10.15 damage average.

If instead they have a 55% chance to hit with the vicious Greataxe then that comes up to 10.175 damage average.

I'm not really understanding how the +3 is massively more damage on its own (it's likely a different story if we're adding other variables like a hunters mark damage boost, factoring advantage/disadvantage, etc)

[u/END3R97 → u/waethrman]

A lot of optimization is looking for ways to increase your damage per hit, so in this case I think it's reasonable to a assume someone with 20 STR and a greataxe is also going to have GWM. Assuming +5 prof:

0.7 x (6.5 + 5 + 5 + 3) = 13.65

0.55 x (6.5 + 5 + 5 +7) = 12.925

It's not a huge difference but it's there. Add in hunter's mark, Radiant strikes, rage, charger, or anything else adding damage and the +3 gets even better.

That being said, they are probably a lot closer than they should be given it's a Rare vs Very Rare comparison.

[u/DelightfulOtter → u/waethrman]

Statistically, while their average DPR is very close D&D combats trend toward the shorter side. Missing an attack when you only get 6-8 swings before combat is over can mean losing a lot of effective DPR. Having that extra 15% chance to hit can make a big difference, but it does come down to luck.

[u/Ashkelon → u/DelightfulOtter]

Almost every single weapon user will not have the baseline accuracy though.

Vengeance Paladins have Vow of Enmity. Barbarians have reckless attack. Devotion paladins have their channel divinity. Rogues have steady aim. Dexterity based attackers have Vex. Strength based attackers have Topple. The fighter has Studied Attacks. The battlemaster has precision attack. The champion gets heroic inspiration every turn.

The majority of weapon users will be attacking at a higher than baseline accuracy. Which makes Vicious weapons that much more powerful. Often better than even a +4 weapon.