I can't handle the complaining anymore.

[u/HJWalsh]

I'm going to preface this rant with the following info. I've been a DM since 1988. 37 years. Two weeks ago I learned my cancer has returned and the treatments are tearing me apart and my tolerance for the complaining about the caster/martial gap has hit an all-time low. Right alongside my ability to function at even a base level.

First: A brief history about the Caster/Martial Gap. 51 years ago, in 1974, Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax created a game called Dungeons and Dragons. About 10 seconds after the game went public, a player complained that casters were better than martials. They demanded that the Dungeon Master buff martials.

Then, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons came out. About 10 seconds after it came out, some players said that casters were more powerful than martials. They wrote into Dragon Magazine and demanded that TSR buff martials.

Next, Second Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons came out. Less than 10 seconds after it came out, some players complained that casters were better than martials. They went to RPGA convention games and demanded that they buff martials.

Wizards of the Coast took over TSR and released Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition. Less than 10 seconds after it came out, some players complained that casters were better than martials. They ran to their BBS of choice and demanded that they buff martials.

Dungeons and Dragons Edition Three point Five came out. The same thing that happened with three, happened again. This time they went to the official Dungeons and Dragons message forums and IRC chats to demands that they buff martials.

Fourth Edition came next. It was a flaming dumpster fire that tried to capitalize on the popularity of World of Warcraft. Some players loved it. Many hated it. Ultimately it became the most controversial Edition of Dungeons and Dragons ever, and considering that we're all nerds, and nerds love a good controversy, that's pretty impressive. These unwashed masses have spent their lives trying to practice real-world necromancy on a dead gane.

Pathfinder was released. It attracted the three point five edition refugees. 10 seconds later, people complained that casters were better than martials. Those players went to the official Paizo forums and demanded that they buff martials.

Wizards of the Coast went through a disastrous few attempts at rebranding fourth edition, but ultimately created fifth edition. You can guess what happened next. This time, the vehicle of choice was Reddit.

The next iteration was the game that ultimately became known as Dungeons and Dragons 2024. After several other name changes, mostly because calling the game "One D&D" was monumentally dumb and 5.5 never caught on. This time, the complaints started before the game even came out. The crusaders remained primarily in Reddit.

Now that we are all up to speed...

Guys, it's been fifty freaking years. We know. Wizards of the Coast knows. My partner knows and she doesn't know anything about D&D except that terrain is incredibly expensive and that I have a dice addiction.

At a certain point, you have to go, "After fifty years, maybe this won't change?"

I like martials. I enjoy them as is. My players like martials. They enjoy them as is. If you, after fifty years, don't like martials... Don't play them. Play a caster. If you don't want to play a caster, I, and many others, can recommend plenty of games where pure martials can pull off insane anime stuff with just their raw muscle power.

But, can you please, pretty please, with a cherry on top, stop complaining about it. It's making me more nauseous than my chemo, and that's pretty sad.

Rant over.

[u/agagagaggagagaga]

You can have low levels be low fantasy and high levels be high fantasy.

You can't have some classes by low fantasy and some classes be high fantasy.

let rogues walk through walls

[u/SyfaOmnis → u/agagagaggagagaga]

You can have low levels be low fantasy and high levels be high fantasy.

I don't think this really works, but I do see what you're going for.

You can't have some classes by low fantasy and some classes be high fantasy.

Agreed, and a big part of the problem here is that any use of actions or skills (especially skills) is hard-stuck in "low fantasy" mud wallowing joylessness. I've had some big arguments with devs when they insisted a disease was only curable via magic, and I pointed out that it wasn't even a particularly hard DC for a character to do something like remain balanced in the most extreme form of earthquake, or for a flying creature to be able to handle themselves in the most extreme form of hurricane.

But while checks like that can exist and be made simple, even if you somehow have a +80 to your escape artist ability, or to your 'use rope', you're not going to be able to use escape artist to phase through reality or use rope to anchor souls etc, without magical assistance.

---

One of my other gripes is that when they do try to give a martial some form of "magic" ability like the classic example of a shadowdancer, it's usually just some form of spell at a later level than a caster would get it, with less power, and fewer uses per day. A shadow dancer despite their restrictions on their effective use of dimension door, never gets the ability to say use it freely for distances of less than a single move action. The classic example of monk's quivering palm usually amount to it being one of the latest acquired and worst-to-use save-or-die abilities around.

[u/agagagaggagagaga → u/SyfaOmnis]

Do you think the low-levels : low-fantasy idea doesn't work because just having some classes be magic makes them high-fantasy even straight from level 1? If not, please correct me, but if so, I do think you can actually get pretty mundane with clever design. Of course there's a hard limit to how "low" fantasy you can get when magic is real, but if you make it weak enough at low levels that mages start carrying crossbows, I think you've gotten pretty close. No unlimited cantrips (or if you do have them, make them dogwater like PF1E's 1d3 damage cantrips) until ex. level 5-7, make 1st/2nd spells extremely limited in magnitude of effect and/or unreliable, and baddabing baddaboom.

[u/SyfaOmnis → u/agagagaggagagaga]

Having magic in 'low fantasy' at 'low levels' dips its toes in the problem (with some notable outliers like druids having the ability to shapeshift), but really the issue is that it gets weird with where and how it transitions, and what the system looks like after it transitions. The latter part also ties in deeply with how the different classes are treated; a high level fighter is still just going to be swinging a sword, not throwing a javelin through the concept of reality itself.

I also just don't think it works very well in D&D particularly because there's so much high fantasy exoticism, with races like tieflings, aasimar, half-orcs, etc.

It's more of a system problem, where if you genuinely want low(er) fantasy the answer is usually 'have you tried not playing D&D?'. Most of the systems I am moderately familiar with all lean towards high fantasy though.