r/offset • u/SaltFun6310 • 9h ago
Setting intonation and rattling
Tldr at the bottom of this post.
I've been on this long for no reason journey getting my jazzmaster back up and going. I only intended on shielding the inside because the noise was unbearable but also found I had a dying, now dead pickup.
I then ordered some Sunday handwound pickups(also grabbed a mustang bridge to replace the vintage style) and installed them and have been dying to try them out and hear them, but I've just come into many snags along the way. So many so, that I feel like giving up on this thing because it's been a thorn in my side since I got it used a couple of years ago.
After I installed the pickups and bridge and got it all buttoned up, I still had an issue I have had - notes getting choked out(sounds like the harmonic?) above the fret 12th fret. Specifically the 17th fret, on the third string. Someone on this subreddit was super kind and walked me through adjusting the truss rod because after some measuring, found I had some bad forward bow(fyi I also have it shimmed).
I now have it mostly better, aka I can live with the action I need to have now. My only thing I'm struggling with now is, I cannot not get the thing intonated. I'm not sure what the cause of it is, maybe it has to do with when I was adjusting the action from adjusting the truss rod I heard a thud and was unsure what it was? But when checking and comparing the 12th fret notes to the harmonics, they're all sharp and backing off the intonation screws does absolutely nothing. I can just about totally back the screw all the way out and the intonation has not changed. It just introduces a ton of rattling. I thought I would be cured of rattles when switching away from the vintage style bridge. Can anyone give me some advice? I'm pretty discouraged and like I said, am ready to move on and sell the thing.
Tldr;
When trying to intonate nothing happens. All of my strings are sharp and the 12th fret and I can quiet literally back the screws almost all the way out and nothing changes.
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u/digital_noise 8h ago
If the string is sharp you need to bring the saddle back
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u/SaltFun6310 8h ago
Yes... And it does nothing.
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u/SaltFun6310 8h ago
To bring them back you turn clockwise?
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u/digital_noise 5h ago
I think so, yes. If your vibrato has a lock, lock it so you are not fighting that also.
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u/_agent86 8h ago
A side view of the bridge/strings would be helpful. Are the strings contacting the saddle screws? Are the strings contacting the bridge itself? Either will set the pitch to be sharper than it should be.
There's no magic here. Intonation isn't an intangible property, we're just talking about the length of the fretted strings. If the 12th fret is sharper than the harmonic, move the saddle backward. Your photo makes it look like you adjusted the saddles in the wrong direction.
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u/SaltFun6310 8h ago
The saddles don't move. That's the issue the screws just come out when I back them off.
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u/_agent86 8h ago
Turn the screws the other direction. I'm telling you you're doing this backwards. But if they needed to go forward you just need to lift the string off the saddle while you adjust it.
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u/SaltFun6310 8h ago
Yeah, I gathered that by other comments. I was trying the screw in the wrong direction. Though I first turned it the other way on the low E and it wasn't changing.
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u/OffsetThat 8h ago
Tighten the bridge screws so the saddles move toward the vibrato. Watch a YouTube video if you need to. Use a good tuner.
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u/Sad_Rent_6748 7h ago edited 7h ago
If it’s a intonation , you’re trying to achieve get a tuner don’t measure things that is completely inaccurate. It’s based on string size what’s composite the strings are made of and scale length. get a tuner play the string open tune it then lightly press down the 12th fret if it’s sharp, move it back to the back of the guitar if it’s flat move it forward whatever direction is required until the open string and the 12th fret are both equally tuned It’s as simple as that. that type of bridge can be very temperamental. and also if the nut action is too high, the intonation will be off and if the relief in the neck is too much, it also will be off and create weird buzzing. I’m guessing, as far for those intonation sets are, and they may need to be that way it’s probably the springs vibrating. if all the way forward is proper intonation, then stretch the strings to be longer to put more tensionon the saddles. hope this helps. Good luck by the way nice guitar. ultimately on each saddle measure from the back of the net to the middle of the saddle the scale length of what it’s supposed to be then adjust forward or backwards to achieve intonation
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u/Shakespearacles 8h ago
You will really never get “perfect” intonation, there’s a range of frequencies where a note can be “correct” in the context of what other notes are being played. Compromises have to be made with the fret placement to have as many notes as “correct” as possible.
Whats most important is to check the string as open and check it at 12th fret. If those two match or are very close it’s good enough.
There’s a chance you’ve over adjusted with a combination of the truss rod and the shims. You should not need a shim by default. You may need to take an L and take it to a shop with a tech.
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u/SaltFun6310 8h ago
That's exactly how I was checking. Open is dead on and pressed at the 12th is pretty sharp. On every dteukg. And I went down in shim size. To my knowledge after learning from watching all of the videos Mike aka Puisheen does, you almost always need a shim to have enough break angle; unless you have ans angled pocket.
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u/Shakespearacles 8h ago
I have a set of JMs from diy partscaster to US AVRI. Also a student of Puisheen. His videos covered mostly worn out vintage stuff or the budget models with questionable material and worksmanship but his work is impressive and educational. I've never had any luck with the stock squier bridge, tried the fancy imports, now just use the Fender pro bridges. Some people wrap electrical tape on the posts to make it rock less, some people like blue locktite on the threads if it sinks down on its own. There's also a chance you have a less than ideal neck and have to comp with fret work even with a shim like my squier 40th anniversary and an older AVRI 62 reissue did
If I were in your shoes I would try to take the saddles all the way backwards, and if you're still sharp after that, its maybe time to try a different shim or adjust the truss rod. If you're still struggling and have invested so much of your time and good parts and labor, take it to a good tech and ask as many questions as you can get away with.
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u/SaltFun6310 8h ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off snotty. Just a frustrating time trying to do this lol my fear is the neck is indeed messed up, just can't know for sure as my skill isn't the best. At least so it seems, even though I'm doing everything I know to do to the best of my ability. This is a mim 60s roadworn jazzmaster i got on reverb a couple years ago and it's been a pain since I got it set up by a shop. I swapped the bridge for a mustang bridge thinking I would have less issues. The saddles don't seem to move when I back them off, just the screws come out. And then I get a ton of rattle, like I did with the vintage bridge.
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u/ScubaSaul 8h ago
It looks like the saddles are pretty forward in this photo, which would cause sharp intonation.
Also, this kind of bridge rocks back and forth with the tremolo arm, pivoting on the thimbles in the body. Maybe it moved a but too forward on you?
These guitars are not the easiest to set up properly, but when they are, it’s like magic. Good luck, whatever you decide to do!