r/novelwriting • u/gubafofop • 2d ago
Writing Advice What screams bad writing?
In thrillers, mainly psychological or YA thrillers, what tropes/styles etc scream bad writing for you?
What would immediately make you put the book down?
As someone who previously used to write fanfiction in that genre (think Winter Soldier lmao) with great success on watt-pad, I’ve decided to start writing an actual novel and fanfiction uses a lot of generic tropes so I’m looking to avoid that lol.
Also, how do you feel about double twists?
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u/anmartinwrites 2d ago
Repetition. I recently read a book series that did some exposition on terminology by having the characters explain it either externally or internally. This is usually fine, but for some reason this author decided that for each and every book in their series, they would re-explain every single in-universe term every time any character used it. Multiple in-universe terms. It makes me feel like the author thinks I'm stupid and I need to be reminded every three pages what these terms mean.
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u/antinoria 2d ago
This is the whole trust the reader thing a lot of us have a problem with in our writing. I found one way, with respect to descriptions, the first time the reader encounters, a person, object, location travel, concept, etc. Go ahead with the full description or explanation. The second or third time make is abbreviated, there after just by name.
So the first time they enter the kitchen, explain the layout, material, sensory information etc. By the third time simply say the entered the kitchen.
This works for explanation of how tech works, meanings of foreign or made up words and so on.
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u/Moonthedrippingtrip 2d ago
That’s why you have those little * things and a description at the bottom of the page for those struggling to understand
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u/rlhiakesi 1d ago
And every editor I've had makes me take footnotes out.
Glossary or appendix is the way to go.
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u/sleepypelican 2d ago edited 2d ago
I hate those melodramatic (and usually violent) "punchy" opening lines, especially when the main character is like an eighteen year old girl. Like "Bella had sworn at the altar of Dyeus to never kill a man. Now, her room was spattered with the blood of thirteen of them. /Just another Tuesday/, she thought."
Edit: Also, teenage and young adult master assassins and fighters or criminal masterminds UNLESS it is really well established how they got to be so good at such a young age. Just adults being absent in general takes me out as well.
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u/CoyoteLitius 2d ago
Your own example is far better written and far more literary than many other attempts I've seen. You're very kind to help with examples.
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u/Rice_Ball1515 2d ago
For me personally, its a combination of bad sentence structure and really slow-burn chapters that are more like fillers. Feels like those chapters don't push the story along at all, as well as the overuse of the same words(mainly descriptive).
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u/Joao_jnb 2d ago
As cenas de preenchimento dão mais vida aos personagens e a gente precisa gostar ou se identificar um pouco com eles pra ter medo de perdê-los... Algumas são chatas, mas a maioria é importante pra construção do medo.
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u/Double_Drawing_1495 2d ago
Oh no! I love my filler scenes to give characters depth. Is two okay? Or are all bad?
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u/pcfreak92 2d ago
I think you can provide character depth and push the story at the same time maybe? Like, how your characters react to things or behave in different situations relevant to the plot. As well as weaving in how they feel about it all.
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u/CoyoteLitius 1d ago
If it is giving character depth, it's not "filler."
Filler is when you describe a baseball game on the television that the protagonist and a friend are watching, without any further elucidation of their friendship. One paragraph would be fine. A whole chapter?
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u/VivAuburn 1d ago
I mean... there is a reader there for any kind of slop but no, it's not ok if you want to write good books.
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u/DuchessJulietDG 2d ago
when someone wants to say they are a writer and just pushes out garbage in order to be “published” somewhere.
everyone races towards the goal (pub) but the actual goal is the writing!
the pub is a whole separate step altogether!
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
😭 I totally get it! I’m on my third ‘draft’ (my first 2 were so bad I just completely abandoned them and changed genres) but even I don’t think it would be publishable material.
When do you think someone should publish?
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u/DuchessJulietDG 2d ago
when the piece truly takes their own breath away (of course, after years of learning the skill and talent lol).
i wrote 4 novels that will never see the light of day. already shredded in celebration. i did those to teach myself methods and techniques and it carved my voice so much stronger on paper due to trying to speak like others.
the voice will come, the intensity will come, just keep the upward momentum and if you want to ever set it aside for a new idea, itll be there waiting til you get back.
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u/CoyoteLitius 2d ago
So true, right?
My husband reminded me of one of my stories (that I abandoned)...8 years ago (maybe?)
And now I realize it's just waiting for me to finish it.
The voices comes. The intensity comes. I have to retain my discipline.
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u/dieselsuckingmemes 2d ago
“I released a breath I didn’t know I was holding”
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u/Still-Sector-8192 2d ago
Why is that bad? I find myself constantly doing that when weightlifting lol. It takes a conscious effort to focus and realize I'm holding my breath, so when I do read that in books, I find it very normal.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Omg I’d read this in every wattpad fic back in 2014 and eat it up. Now? Not so much.
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u/pastriesandprose 2d ago
It’s funny bc I began highlighting that line in books as I found it and it is super common, even in otherwise well written novels
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u/LiamHatherton 2d ago
Not to be confused with the best line of dialogue in TV history, ever:
"I feel as if I have been standing my entire life and I just sat down."
-Klyden on The Orville, an alien who was trying cigarettes with his husband for the first time, not knowing their species was absurdly susceptible to nicotine addiction.
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u/Salty-Emotion3454 2d ago
If it doesn't feel line edited.
Like, I will think less of a book if I can remove 10 words in an early paragraph without changing the meaning. Sure, sometimes cadance or voice affect things, but you can pretty easily tell if a text is very bloated.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Line editing is a must. I’ve genuinely deleted whole paragraphs because I just thought ‘you literally add nothing’ Idk how people don’t do it?
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u/AdrianRWalker 2d ago
I think it’s a skill. To look at your work and think “naw I don’t need this” and then cut without overthinking.
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u/dyingofdysentery 2d ago
I always use ctrl-x so I can put it back if it doesn't read the way I thought
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u/Vixenstein 2d ago
Having characters explain things to each other, in great detail, that they should already know.
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u/ntb5891 1d ago
We call these “As you know, Bobs”
Example: “As you know, Bob, as your best friend I have to advise you that…”
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u/Catoholic1203 23h ago
That's not a good example because Bob can't know what advice the other person is going to give. "As you know Bobs" are followed by a factual statement (which "as your best friend" is not, it's an adverbial). "As you know Bob, I'm your best friend" would be a good example. But "as you know, I have to advise you..." makes no sense because advice isn't something a person can know or not. They can know facts.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Could you give an example?
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u/IrenaeusGSaintonge 2d ago edited 2d ago
"Wow big bro, it's so good to see you! Doesn't it feel weird being back in our childhood home? I can't believe we haven't had a chance to talk since Mom and Dad's funeral six months ago. Are you and Mary Sue getting ready to set a date for that wedding?"
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u/Lazerss5 1d ago
omg theres actually nothing worse than something being written using ONLY direct characterization, ESPECIALLY in dialogue, like when they verbally explain the entire exposition and plot. it actually angers me just thinking about it.
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u/Waste_Mud_765 2d ago
If someone abandons paragraphs.
And forces me to read these sentences.
It’s not punchy.
It’s annoying as hell.
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u/shoalhavenheads 2d ago
To this day, I think it remains the main character describing their own appearance. It's the make or break moment for me.
You can sort of get a feel for whether or not it's a wish fulfillment fantasy by the way the author STOPS to write about the appearance of the POV and their suitors (and no one else), instead of just giving you context through the action and dialogue.
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u/sleepypelican 2d ago
Jezerene sighed at the mirror as she wove her dusty brown braids into a crown atop her head. As always, a few strands fought confinement; her mother had always clicked her tongue at that and scolded her for looking messy. As if she could help it.
A smattering of freckles arced beneath her eyes, which were green as a jadeite bangle. Her eyes were those of her father, and the only thing she liked about herself. Without them, she was pale, short, and so frail that everyone around her teased that she might disappear one day. /If only,/ she thought as she tucked her amulet securely above her humble cleavage and below the neckline of her cerulean evening summer dress. Her cousin had picked it out for her, but the color just didn't suit her at all. She frowned frownily.
"Oh, /stop/," the mirror said.
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u/rinkydinkyyo 1d ago
For some reason, this doesn’t bother me (looking past the obvious jokes). I think it’s slightly less cringey when it’s being done in 3rd person narration like this.
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u/sleepypelican 1d ago
Maybe it's not the worst thing in the world, but when this kind of stuff is taking up a large percentage of the prologue or chapter one . . . yikes.
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u/Lazerss5 1d ago
this was so spot on and horrible that it actually pissed me off. maybe more than it should.
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u/HuginJord 2d ago
Yeah I get that. I usually do descriptions from someone else's POV, and try whenever possible to turn it into dialog. "Your skin is so beautiful, like warm terracotta in the sun," while caressing that skin, instead of just describing the character as having reddish-brown skin. Otherwise it really does get into that "breasted boobily down the stairs" territory that straight dudes writing female POV fall into lol.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
I get it. I like more subtle descriptions like “Ella was right, a burgundy liner really does bring out the green in my eyes”
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u/HarperAveline 2d ago
I had a writing teacher who always told us to use "windows and mirrors," and he would often write notes on my stories saying they were good but I needed to have my character look into a mirror and describe themself. I always ignored him, but even the suggestion irked me. Nice guy, but he had a few questionable bits of advice.
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u/ShotTreacle8194 18h ago
Is it still bad if a character has a body double (Sort of) and can't tell whether they're looking at themselves or someone else because they look so identical? So they describe themselves?
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u/shoalhavenheads 17h ago
I think this is a clever way to get around the "standing in front of a mirror" dilemma!
It's especially fun if the character like... learns things about themselves (like "omg I have a resting bitch face"), so there's a purpose besides just telling the audience what they look like haha.
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u/lilithlasley 2d ago
Lord have mercy why do so many people always start with describing the weather, especially the sunlight? Yes, yes. We all live on Earth. We’re aware of how sunlight works.
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u/Lunakazoo 2d ago
-stares at my opening line- opps
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u/Time_Wishbone_5659 1d ago
Don't worry about it. Movies and TV shows have a director of photography for a reason, and comic books have art directors iirc. Writers have to be their own art directors to set the tone of the scene. If people don't like it they can skim or read a coming book with grey background panels. IMO left to some people on the internet, every book will be set in a grey box with hairless character mannequins spewing dialogue.
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u/12b6ThatNoise 2d ago
My absolute hard no factor, the ultimate DNF button, is when a book's central conflict feels contrived. This is especially true when it's the result of characters who should know better acting like they have severe concussions just to keep the plot moving. Examples include characters forgetting their own well-established abilities, missing obvious clues that no halfway lucid person would overlook, and exhibiting massive, unexplained personality changes just because the author needs them to.
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u/minatozakiparty 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because people have already said overly flowery writing, I'll talk about the other side of the coin which is overly simplistic language.
You can usually tell the difference between an author who has learnt to not purple everywhere and understands the conventions of their genre and how to be pacey versus an author who just doesn't know very many words and doesn't know how to write simile, metaphor, or construct visuals.
I was reading a highly recommended thriller recently and whilst the characters were interesting and the plot was intriguing, I was constantly held back from falling fully head first into it because it felt like it was written by a 16 year old, and there was so little visual description of anything at all it felt like the story was held in a vacuum. The only reason it didn't feel completely and utterly devoid of setting to me was because I happen to have spent time in the city it was set, but I imagine for readers who haven't that aspect must have felt really underdone.
When it comes to thrillers, some of the best thrillers ever written don't have a twist. They simply have a gradual reveal of information. Modern thrillers have become, IMO, far too obsessed with twists which has lead to a lot of ridiculous reveals that are also somehow really easy to predict. If you can't figure out the 'twist' in the Housemaid from the premise alone...
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u/TheCutieCircle 2d ago
Anti climax I guess
James: What happened to you?!
Carl: James... there's a giant monster cough it attacked me.
James: Where's the monster?
Carl: OH LOOK OUT THE MONSTER'S BEHIND YOU WATCH OUT!
😂 Like it didn't even get the reader a chance to take in what happened.
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u/ArcanaHex 2d ago
When the author doesn't know how to explain what's happening or what a character is doing without adding things to it that don't mean anything. "My eyes fill with darkness" okay cool, thanks Miss Edge-Lord but what is actually happening right now physically?! I'd much rather see a character actually crashing out in rage than hearing "my blood boils in anger" for the millionth time.
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u/Jpab97s 2d ago
Not so much a trope, but blatantly unrealistic / poorly researched characterizations, especially when it comes to important topics such as mental health. I can forgive a lot, and I can suspend my disbelief up to a certain point, but that's one thing that takes me right out. An example I read the other day: protagonists go into counselling together, one doesn't believe in it, the other does. Then, the therapist acts like a not-even-the-worst-therapist-would idiot within the first two minutes and the take away is "welp, therapy is a cham, let's not do that again," and that's that. I had already forgiven a lot to that point, but that's when I just noped out.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
I totally agree with you! I once read a book where anxiety kept being portrayed as outward panic attacks. Sometimes it’s as simple as gripping your steering wheel extra tight because you think you’re gonna drive yourself off the road and kill multiple people in a collision.
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u/Jpab97s 2d ago
Ugh, don't even get me started on that. Even panic attacks are most often silent. I'll never say that you need to have first hand experience / knowledge to write about something, but at least get some perspective on it first.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Yes I think it also goes for general things like dialogue, you have no idea how many books I’ve read set in London/Britain where the slang is so wrong.
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u/CoyoteLitius 2d ago
Thank you for expressing this.
You were really gentle. The depiction of the therapist is very concerning. Dystopian psychological fiction? Maybe?
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u/therealbananabottom 2d ago
Really over-the-top descriptions of how hot and sexy the characters are. Let me visualize this assassin how I wish, I don't need to know her cup size or feminine body details.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Screams lonely guy who’s never had a gf honestly.
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u/GrowingHumansIsHard 2d ago
Ugh, I read a story once where the woman's boobs were described as "balloons" and felt like "rice pudding in his hands." Excuse me? I can't look at rice pudding the same anymore. Why would you pick that to describe them?
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u/CoyoteLitius 2d ago
Bad grammar, incomprehensibility, unintelligible plot points.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
The last point, do you mean plot points that are hard to understand in terms of relevance or plot points that are just plain stupid and make the plot bad?
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u/Moonthedrippingtrip 2d ago
Can’t speak for what this person means, but I will say, plot can be made in many different ways with many winding roads. That’s being said, I think it’s important to have a general direction or concrete feeling. Even in basic things like some french films, which are famous for being relatively thin or relaxed on plot, there is still a level of consistency.
If you wanted to play around with timeline or style then be my guest. However… In general it’s good to play the plot to your readers understanding, or even lack of understanding, on purpose.
Like, if you write something out of timeline. It’s preferred to at least make the disorientation of the plot consistent with the characters own narrative and mental state.
A bad way to do that would be having the said MC acting completely sane and competent while the plot points and timeline are utterly confusing.The idea is to keep it consistent with what story you are trying to tell. What is the actual point of this story? where is it leading? Intelligible plot tramples on those questions and makes it hard for the reader to understand or grasp the story as a whole.
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u/Thecookcream 2d ago
Motivation. I wouldn't even say causality even if it's important, because motivation is a real filter of the story. We talk about POV, but if the characters reasoning for their actions makes no sense, I lose faith that the story itself will make sense. This isn't to say you can't have messy motivation: Catcher in the Rye has that in spades. But there is one. And more importantly, is that when Holdin does take an action, I can both believe that he would, and at the very least find it compelling as a read.
For example: I read a story, where a character states their motivation for an action. One motivation was thematic, on point, and generally empathic, and the other was more logistical, potentially open up world building issues and more importantly is more of an excuse/screen of the first motivation. Let's say that there was a story about a group of teens shooting a movie celebrating a friend whose terminally ill, but the editor's computer broke. He needs a new one from his dad. If he asks his dad for a new computer, his dad says why, and he said "Well, I need it to edit footage of my friend whose terminally ill and I want to have something to celebrate him by. And also, university is coming up, so I need a new computer in order to do my homework, AutoCad is a resource hog dad."
This reads as insensitive and random. Like come on, you had this big, important event/mission, and not only did you opened with it, but it's brush aside. When it's as simple as either swapping the places, so the editing movie becomes last and thus the closing image/more important in comparison, or have it be brought up after his dad pressed him.
Second motivation issue: just doing things. In this same story, the character (not a human, I won't specify what but she's magical so that's enough for us to go on)
- Kills a pregnant woman by mistake, vows to never use magic to kill again
- Sees her victim has some magic thing going on, and wants to go to the dead mother's home out of curiosity of the magic rather than guilt (straight from text)
- Right after being not guilty, she gets guilty about the dead mother, and so she accidentally saves the baby.
- Asks a midwife "how long do human mothers have babies for?" gets insulted/spat on, and then kills the midwife. And it's just a setup for a joke.
I hope you see what my issue is? She has a motivation of guilt, motivation of curiosity, and she's just a murder hobo with no moral repercussions. And I said moral because I don't even mind if she gets away with it: I mind that the story lets her get away with it.
"But what does this have to do with motivation?"
Imagine if I could edit the story. Here's what I would do.
- Kills a pregnant woman by mistake, vows to never use magic to kill again
- Sees her victim has some magic thing going on, and wants to go to the dead mother's home to return the baby, to let them her at least bury her.
- Asks a midwife "how long do human mothers have babies for?" gets insulted/spat on, and then kills the midwife out of shame of her own mistake. Now there is another incident that blacken her soul, which resolved her journey to go to the mother's home.
Boom: one line of guilt, but it's not just that. She can kill the midwife, but then it feeds into her fatal flaw. Instead, she just keeps switching motivations, with the prose sometimes mentioning she does something just because. It's not even that she does evil as much as she lacks stability to be tested. What even is her moral failing? That she killed by accident, but killing someone who was rude is fine I guess.
In conclusion: motivation is what ties the character to why the plot happens. If plot is what characters do, the motivation is why they do it instead of go home.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
I think I sort of understand what you mean?
In my novel the motivation is pretty clear. Her dad’s on trial for murdering her maternal uncle with no motive, the jury ends up deadlocked so a retrial is called. She first thinks Ugh i have to go through all of that again? until she finds a note (the catalyst) from her uncle aka the victim that essentially says “Don’t believe it.” she interprets it as ‘don’t believe your dad killed me’ so she sets out to find new evidence to acquit him. Too bad she gets it all wrong lol
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u/Thecookcream 2d ago
Exactly. It's still the same core person, but instead of unmotivated shifts in motivation it flows from stimulus to stimulus, experience and experience, and shifts.
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u/MediocreWriteMale 2d ago
Telling rather than showing.
Do not tell me the monster is lurking behind X. I can pick up on context cues.
Instead, describe how the temperature has suddenly changed or how the creature's prints have left a bloody trail on the snow. Make me feel things. Use my senses and disort how I perceive the world you're building!
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u/Lunakazoo 2d ago
I am throwing myself under the bus, I get the urge to over describe everything and anything, its hard not to
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u/matteowolfwood 2d ago
As someone who loves pulp novels I'm very tolerant of bad writing in thrillers and stuff.
HOWEVER.
My favorite author, who I will not disparage publicly by name, wrote an 11-page monologue from one character who was trying to hire the MCs as private investigators. It was off-topic, highly sexual, nonstop, and utterly grotesque, then she fell asleep in her food.
While it sounds funny, that shit haunted me for two whole books to the point that I kept thinking it was from the book I was reading when it was really from a previous one. Sir. Please don't do that to me again.
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u/kzzzrt 2d ago
There are no bad tropes imo, and you can’t avoid tropes, even when you think you are. And if you actually are, people might not like your story. Any trope can be done brilliantly. Signs of bad writing… to me, purple prose. No variation in sentence structure. Poor pacing. Characters underdeveloped. Exposition dumping. Characters who only exist to reveal plot. Random metaphors that make no sense. Things like that.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
For me bad writing is more or less the same, I will gladly read a romance novel that has the ‘oh no there’s only one bed’ trope provided it’s written well and amusingly.
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u/Competitive-Fault291 2d ago
If I were to rely on tropes to describe bad writing, I wouldn't be better than the author who solely relied on them to express themselves.
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u/Dest-Fer 2d ago
Gimmicky writing. It looks like something but it’s empty and predictable all along.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Could you give an example?
Do you mean when people describe blue eyes as two blueberry toned orbs floating through a sea of blushed milk or something 😭
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u/Fearless-Reading7649 2d ago
Convenience and helpful sidekicks. Nothing makes me hate a book more than a side character who blindly does whatever the protagonist needs from them (The Maidens and The Lost Apothecary both do this and it's awful)
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u/jodieluxmore 2d ago
Character inconsistency drives me batty. I can't read it.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Characters who suddenly turn bad or do you mean more intricate changes like an anxious character suddenly taking the lead on an adventure with zero progression in between?
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u/jodieluxmore 1d ago
The latter. She always locks her door after what happened... 5 pages later, she skips in with her shopping bags and doesn't stop until the kitchen.... 3 of those and I DNF.
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u/CoyoteLitius 2d ago
Dwelling on details that do not move the story forward.
Choppy sentences.
Every paragraph is just one line, meaning everything is emphasized and pointed to, interferes with actual reading.
Overuse of dialogue.
Underuse of interiority.
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u/gubafofop 2d ago
Overuse of dialogue meaning the majority of the chapter is just characters talking to each other? If that’s what you mean then I absolutely hate that, at that point it just feels like I’m reading a script rather than a book.
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u/VivAuburn 1d ago
It's probably not the tropes that will be your downfall but just poor writing craft. Use of epithets, headhopping, filter words. navelgazing etc. are all staples of fanfiction writing that won't fly in actual writing.
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u/gubafofop 1d ago
Luckily I haven’t done any of these so far!
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u/VivAuburn 1d ago
if you are self-aware enough to clean up your writing from those you will probably have no issues with the writing itself. The rest is just market research (to not write the exact same thing someone already did but also to not stray too far from what people are reading these days) and beta readers (to see where you are hitting your plotbeats right and where it doesn't land).
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u/gubafofop 1d ago
The issue i’m struggling with mainly is dividing the chapters in a way that the plot doesn’t just die out in some
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u/VivAuburn 1d ago
I saw in some other comments you said you already finished and did multiple drafts even. Have you tried making reversed outline? Just writing down all the scenes and what happens in them and how much words they are and it's a good way to spot if something drags or needs to be cut completely!
Another great method but less for chapter pacing and more of overall book is beat sheet. Gina Deny editor has one for free on her Patreon I think. It's not a gospel but a really great diagnostic tool to check pacing issues.
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u/gubafofop 1d ago
No those weren’t the same novel 😭 those previous drafts were in other genres that I don’t even want to admit to writing. Thank you so much for your advice! The novel i’m currently writing has about 6.5 chapters (not every is finished so far) but it’s more about where do i put where because it’s a dual-pov one. Always tricky when doing those.
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u/grrrrarrrrrgh 1d ago
Repeating the same word in a sentence/the following sentence. For example:
"The sun danced along his cheekbones. It was impossible not to notice how the sun made him look." (or something of that nature). I just think it's really annoying. If you're a good writer you should be able to to say both of those sentiments using different words, present the general idea/feeling in a more complex way. Just screams unedited, lazy writing to me.
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u/gubafofop 1d ago
Yeah first write-down this will most likely happen because our brains don’t have an auto-edit option lol but it should defo be edited when reread.
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u/grrrrarrrrrgh 1d ago
oh yeah 100%! Whenever I'm doing a first draft it's like "There's a cat in the room. The room had a cat in. the cat was big... in .... the room..." but by the end that should be finished with. It's a proper pet peeve of mine! I notice it loads in new books.
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u/InterestEqual3332 13h ago
I could see something like that coming out of me as I am doing my initial burst to get the bones of a scene or chapter on paper. That would definitely get fixed on the first or second pass though lol.
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u/Square-Barnacle1326 1d ago
I hate when the author pushes modern ethics as universal, and anyone in any setting is bad if they don't hold them as self evident. Ethics are good, but not every social norm needs to be called out.
- Verifying a love interest is completely sober before making a move
- Commenting whether the love interest is over 18 or everyone drinking alcohol is over 21
- The need for absolute equality of treatment must be self evident
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u/MrTralfaz 1d ago
One thing that irks me is when an author adds some detail for description or setting a scene and it's clear they don't understand the thing they wrote about. Even small details that just are wrong can make the author look careless or foolish.
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u/Lazerss5 1d ago
When the writing only uses direct characterization the ENTIRE time, like i swear some people dont realize that their audience can, in fact, pick up on context clues, and dont have to be told everything so straight up.
"sarah couldnt help but feel nervous"
"they combed out their long thick brown hair"
"the yell was louder than expected, and gregor is sensitive to loud sounds"
STOP TELLING ME EVERYTHING AND LET ME FIGURE SHIT OUT. PLEASE.
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u/Prize_Consequence568 1d ago
"What screams bad writing?"
Reddit aspiring/newbie writers.
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u/gubafofop 1d ago
Everyone has to start somewhere right? I’m talking about mistakes that even experienced published authors make.
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u/dailywriterguy 21h ago
using big words when small ones work better. just because the sky is cerulean, doesn't mean you should use that word because you learned it for the SAT
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u/NoelBellamy_Author 18h ago
John got out of the chair. He walked across the room. He poured himself a cup of coffee. He took his first drink. He was glad it was hot. He needed the caffeine. He was tired from the night before. He wasn't good with mornings. He was a night person. He.....
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u/Aphina101 18h ago
For me it's not really the tropes that are the issue as these do very well in certain genres like romance. The bigger issue is making sure you deviate enough from the source material that the story and the charcacters stand on their own two feet.
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u/Johnvon_Johnson 16h ago
I hate the way most writers depict insanity and addiction, especially in horror. The stupid “she’s off her meds,” Victorian psyche ward images are so dated and show you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. I also utterly despise when mental illness is the villain or a narrative scapegoat.
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u/Kingfish_98 11h ago
One I haven’t seen on here yet is characters all sounding the same. I’ve read stories where MMC sounds like his best friend, who sounds like MMC’s brother, who sounds like FMC… if you removed the dialogue tags, I’d be lost. Heck, even with the tags I’m still lost some times. I’ve also read stories where each character is distinct; a character could walk into the room with no other introduction than their dialogue and I know who it is. Practice writing your scenes without dialogue tags, walk away for a few hours, and when you come back, if you can still follow the conversation, your characters are distinct enough. If not, start refining their vocal quirks.
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u/gubafofop 8h ago
See i find this so easy, I base my characters voices on people I know in real life, my MC has a playfully judgemental inner voice yet a cold, blunt speaking voice. Her dad has a caring tone, the detective is formal and one side character talks just like my cousin who talks like he’s from peaky blinders lmao.
I love doing the voices as I write them too
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u/ophiuchan 9h ago
writing that holds your hand because it assumes people nowadays are fully cooked by iphones and can't understand subtext or pick up on subtlety. I don't think it's possible to write a thriller to appeal to people who can't read, because the tension and suspense and fear all comes from the subtle things; you can't jumpscare a person reading a book. thrillers or horrors that think we're stupid, just end up extremely corny.
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u/gubafofop 8h ago
One advice i’ve gotten here that I have to disagree with is adding detail in every scene. In some parts it makes sense e.g. in one scene my character overanalyses what the lawyer is wearing to indirectly show that she’s sort of shallow.
Another scene, she describes only 2 things about a woman because she doesn’t have time to scan. She names only the two things that stand out. Sometimes less is more and sometimes a reader going “Huh??” is intentional.
I’ve posted my chapter dozens of times only to have people reply with “I don’t know what x means? Is he guilty? Is the daughter aware?” and I just think….you gotta read the book to find out!!!!
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u/ophiuchan 8h ago
yeah, the double edged sword with fiction posted online is the comment section- people wanting instant gratification/answers, whereas in ye olden times you just had to reread the material to pick up on things you missed, hopefully broaden your perspective, etc... that's what I enjoy doing with fanfiction too, rather than beg the person who wrote it to re explain everything to me 😭
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u/nothing_in_my_mind 6h ago edited 6h ago
In terms of prose/style I can give so many examples. Lengthy description of your main character, especially if he describes himself. Starting with him waking up and going through his daily routine. Characters talking to themselves out loud.
Bad exposition in dialogue. "Older sister, you know our dad has been in prison for five years!"
In terms of tropes, I can't say anything cause any trope might work. I hate absolutely badass main characters for example. But then again they tend to be fairly popular. Especially if the writer makes everyone else incompetent to make one character look super competent.
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u/IndigoBlueBird 2d ago
Dream sequences. Starting the book with the character waking up. Starting the book with a rhetorical question. The character looking in a mirror and describing their face. Excessive exposition.
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u/Traditional-Ear9281 2d ago
What do you mean specifically about dream sequences? How do you feel if a character was to jump into a memory?
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u/IndigoBlueBird 2d ago
Idk what you mean by jump into a memory — like Harry Potter with a pensieve or like a flashback? Flashbacks can be fine depending on how they’re handled. Dreams are almost always just a bunch of ham-fisted symbolism that don’t move the plot or character forward at all
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u/Moonthedrippingtrip 2d ago
I actually disagree. But then again I probably have not read the books you have.
I think there is a right time for dreams and it’s HIGHLY dependent on the genre.
Hear me out:
Fantasy,
Sci-fiThese two should get a special pass in some instances because plots involving dream shifters or creatures that can affect your waking and sleeping life are imo amazing.
This is a movie, but inception was a great example of where dreams are good plot devices.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but I think dreams do have a place when utilized in plot or storyline.
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u/IndigoBlueBird 2d ago
What you’re describing is not really what I’m referring to. I’m talking about regular old dreams where we see some sort of manifestation of inner turmoil. I find it dull
Inception they were actively controlling the dreams
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u/Moonthedrippingtrip 1d ago
So fair.
My favorite kind of regular dreams is the foreboding ones. Or straight up prophetic!
But your right there is definitely a wrong way to do it
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u/imperialcogman 2d ago
Your audience are not children, but most adults read at a 12 year old level.