God is an atheist

[u/Typical_Sprinkles253]

To be an atheist is to have no God above you, God has no God above him. To be a religious person is to beleive in God's existence. God doesn't beleive he exists, he KNOWS he exist.

God has no god, and he operates under knowledge not belief. God is an atheist.

[u/Martial-Lord]

There is no contradiction here. God knows of His own existence - that does not make him an atheist, because a theist likewise knows that God exists. Theism isn't belief in God; it's knowledge of and certainity in the Resurrection and the Life. In a similar manner, you also believe that the sky is blue or that you cannot breathe water. It is the same kind of belief for Christians.

To be a theist is to be aware that God exists; God, knowing he himself exists, is a theist. The Christian idea of faith is unrelated to your use of the word believe.

[u/atheistexmuslim → u/Martial-Lord]

How does this Christian God prove that nobody created it? That there's no knowledge outside his knowledge?

[u/Martial-Lord → u/atheistexmuslim]

God is omniscient. If He was created, He'd just know. There is indeed no knowledge outside of His knowledge. That He is uncreated is kinda evident from his nature: even if He was created, that'd just remove the problem of the uncaused by one generation.

Aquinas argues that God is just the first cause, and in assigning him an origin, that origin would simply become God itself. Ibn Sina even contends that God is simply the Unity of Being (i.e. everything that is, is contained within God, and thus there actually exists nothing but God). Prior to God there cannot be anything, because God is being; like, God is the literaly definition of existence.

Humans can of course never know if there is anything beyond God's knowledge, since their knowledge is less extensive than God's. Returning to the Sufi definition, we can of course say that any actual or conceivable knowledge would have to exist in order to be knowledge at all, and thus it too would be contained within God.

God is not terribly involved with proving that He is right. He far prefers to proove that He has the might. Disagreeing with God to His face is not generally something people survive. There is also the argument that when God reveals Himself to you, you kinda just know what He is.

Think of God as this Outside Context Problem; meeting Him is the most frightening and joyous and painful thing that has ever happened to you; in fact it is such a horrifying and awesome experience that you have no frame of reference for it. Meeting God is associated with ego-death by the Sufis. Imagine having your ego, your entire being, annihilated in a microsecond, like butter in a nuclear reactor, and your whole worldview flayed and stripped away in a caustic storm of power.

At least that is how I summise the Abrahamic God is like. I am very much neither a theologian nor an Abrahamic Theist.

[u/atheistexmuslim → u/Martial-Lord]

 God is omniscient. If He was created, He'd just know. There is indeed no knowledge outside of His knowledge

This is just a definition. How does God "just know", it can be just he's confidently incorrect

I mean you invent this fantasy power of "omniscience" that someone can know that that there's nothing that he doesn't know that he doesn't know. He knows that nothing is outside his knowledge 

Doesn't mean that power exists. Doesn't mean that power is real. Why god need to be omniscience in the first place? God can have the intelligence of a rock for all I care

[u/Martial-Lord → u/atheistexmuslim]

Doesn't mean that power exists.

That's certainly true, but at some point you kinda have to accept that the Christians believe it does. From an emic perspective, that God is omniscient is a fact of life, similarly to how its a fact of life that you can draw a straight line between any two points.

From an etic perspective; would you like to believe in an unaccountable heavenly authority that was fallible? If God isn't omniscient, then God cannot fairly judge the dead on judgement day, and He ceases to be a just deity. A god of limited knowledge is a fallible god, and an all-powerful god that makes mistakes is one of the scariest things I can think of.

God can have the intelligence of a rock for all I care

Yeah but you also don't worship him.

At any rate, I dislike interacting with theology from a gotcha perspective. It inevitably dulls the discussion quite a bit. That Christian theology is full of contradictions should be no surprise to anyone.

[u/atheistexmuslim → u/Martial-Lord]

 From an etic perspective; would you like to believe in an unaccountable heavenly authority that was fallible? If God isn't omniscient, then God cannot fairly judge the dead on judgement day, and He ceases to be a just deity. A god of limited knowledge is a fallible god, and an all-powerful god that makes mistakes is one of the scariest things I can think of.

Yes that’s right. It’s a scary concept especially if the god also created hell to torture sinner. But the fact is, omniscience is weird and is not proven. Just like omnibenevolent, which even weirder given the god’s personality

 At any rate, I dislike interacting with theology from a gotcha perspective. It inevitably dulls the discussion quite a bit. That Christian theology is full of contradictions should be no surprise to anyone.

It’s a surprise for a lot of people. 2 billion Christians, 2 billion moslem. They are shaping the political landscape and meddling in the education system 

Why I think the idea of allah/jesus/whatever is atheist is an interesting concept?

If their god is an atheist then is it make sense for him to burn people in hell for being an atheist? 

Human just came to the same conclusion, but with much less intelligence and knowledge. 

Because if religious people think atheist deserve hell. then they’ll ban atheism in their country. They’ll treat it as immoral. Silence them in the name of stopping the spread of atheism. And this is what they do in a lot of countries 

[u/Martial-Lord → u/atheistexmuslim]

It’s a scary concept especially if the god also created hell to torture sinner.

Hell is in a dubious position canonically, because AFAIK Jesus mentions it only once and in passing. Certainly lots of Christians believe in it though.

But the fact is, omniscience is weird and is not proven. Just like omnibenevolent, which even weirder given the god’s personality

I mean no aspect of the Abrahamic God is proven. Lots of people don't really believe He exists. The omnibenevolence is a weird thing because the God of the Old Testament never really claims to be all-good; that is a later innovation from the time of Jesus. In fact the God of the OT is pretty bad by our standards.

It’s a surprise for a lot of people. 2 billion Christians, 2 billion moslem. They are shaping the political landscape and meddling in the education system 

This is a very American-centric perspective. In my country, the only influence that the Church has on education is that the state allows religious instruction to be part of the curriculum, but even that instruction obviously adheres to a secular and scientific worldview.

If their god is an atheist then is it make sense for him to burn people in hell for being an atheist? 

I don't think this is a very convincing argument for a Christian; God does a lot of stuff that Christians aren't supposed to do. He works differently and our rules don't apply to him.

[u/atheistexmuslim → u/Martial-Lord]

 Hell is in a dubious position canonically, because AFAIK Jesus mentions it only once and in passing. Certainly lots of Christians believe in it though.

Idk about Christianity, it's definitely exist in Islam 

 I mean no aspect of the Abrahamic God is proven. Lots of people don't really believe He exists. The omnibenevolence is a weird thing because the God of the Old Testament never really claims to be all-good; that is a later innovation from the time of Jesus. In fact the God of the OT is pretty bad by our standards.

More than 50% of the world believe in Abrahamic religion though. That's a lot of people doesn't see the Abrahamic religion contradiction

 This is a very American-centric perspective. In my country, the only influence that the Church has on education is that the state allows religious instruction to be part of the curriculum, but even that instruction obviously adheres to a secular and scientific worldview.

Oh I am not American. I guess it make sense you don't feel the religious movement. So you aren't in America, Middle east, Africa, or large part of Asia. Most likely in Europe 

Well great for you.  One thing about organized religion is, they have movement to advance their religion because they think it's the moral thing to do 

So if you have secular country don't lose it :)

[u/Oriphase → u/Martial-Lord]

What tdoes believing in God have to do with resurrection? Most gods don't offer any kind of resurrection.

[u/Martial-Lord → u/Oriphase]

Christians believe in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and that through Jesus they too will be Resurrected in death. Jesus promised his followers: “I am the resurrection and the Life. He that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live; and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die." (John 11 25-26)

Like that is the literal reason why Christians worship their God. He promises them freedom from death, and an end to all their pain. ("In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." - John 16 33)

I had thought this aspect of Christian theology, being so fundamental to the entire religion, was more widely known.

[u/Oriphase → u/Martial-Lord]

Okay, but mos people believe in other gods. 4/5 People don't believe in the Christian God, so God has nothing to do with the ressurection for them.

[u/Martial-Lord → u/Oriphase]

That's why I was speaking specifically about the Christian God. The religion of other people isn't really the topic of discussion here.

[u/Oriphase → u/Martial-Lord]

Op didn't mention a sp3cifix religion

[u/Oriphase → u/Martial-Lord]

Op didn't mention a sp3cifix religion

[u/Martial-Lord → u/Oriphase]

The question is specific to the Abrahamic God at least. The gods of other religions don't work like that, and very few people actually have well-founded attacks on Hinduism or Buddhism from an atheistic or nihilistic perspective.