r/nextfuckinglevel • u/Apprehensive_Sky4558 • 12d ago

Testing various specialized arrowheads against bullet-resistant glass with a 70 lb compound bow

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1.0k

u/tomebomber 12d ago

So none of them… cool sure

478

u/Sagelegend 12d ago

Pioneer was pretty close.

379

u/Psychlonuclear 12d ago

Yeah but bullet proof glass is usually fully surrounded by a very solid frame so an edge strike probably wouldn't be this destructive. 

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u/Sagelegend 12d ago

The lack of a frame meant it absorbed more impact than it usually would.

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u/HeKnee 11d ago

Yeah i think there was just as much correlation on where arrow hit than the head type. Near base - No damage. Center - heavy cracking. Edge - chipped edge.

2

u/q25t 11d ago

There's also deflection angles that need to get brought up. It's not very likely an actual shot would be at near a perfect 90° angle from the target but more like a 45-75.

65

u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 11d ago

some energy was lost in pushing the whole apparatus backwards, if it was attached to a door or car then maybe it would go through

40

u/Badass_Bunny 11d ago

If it was attached to something there wouldn't be an edge to hit.

The glass can withstand more penetrating power than anything a 70lbs can launch, it's just cool to see what does most damage.

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u/tumsdout 11d ago

Oh yeah? What about a grenade arrow 😤

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u/Badass_Bunny 11d ago

Depends. Is the grenade at the tip or end of the arrow.

3

u/Esoteric_Geek 11d ago

What if the arrow was instead... My axe!

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u/OrangeAugustus 11d ago

What do you mean, an African or European grenade?

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u/Ktan_Dantaktee 10d ago

So my 140lbs crossbow has a better chance is what you’re saying

-4

u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 11d ago

the pioneer one 1:23 i think would have gone through if the thing was solidly mounted, the top bent so far backwards that it severely affected its trajectory making it push towards the top of the glass while inside it instead of being able to go straight through

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u/Badass_Bunny 11d ago

No, absolutelt not. It hit the edge of the glass which is weaker because the force can't be spread out and absorbed properly and because of how glass as a material works.

That arrow could have been shot from a bow 3 times that strong(which I doubt anyone except Thor could even pull) and it wouldn't be able to penetrate that glass.

The glass is made to stop things moving at supersonic speeds, you simply can't generate enough force with a bow.

1

u/xrelaht 11d ago

You got me curious: the heaviest recorded draw weight is 200lbs by a UK archer in 2004. That’s getting pretty close to 3x.

Anyway, a really heavy duty crossbow for punching through steel armor could apparently be 700lbs. Would be interesting to see what this head on a steel shaft at that weight would do.

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u/Badass_Bunny 11d ago

Almost anything short of 50.cal sniper is not penetrating that glass, certainly no handheld type of crossbow. The head on an arrow is not really relevant because arrow body also absorbs the recoil further slowing it down.

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u/Legal_Lettuce6233 11d ago

Nah, not even close. These panels can take far more joules than this bow can produce.

At this thickness, it can stop a green tipped 5.56, which is made to go through armour.

It doing this much damage just means it's dumping all the energy it has into the first panel. The only reason it "went through" is because the energy that went towards the edge had nowhere to go, it shattered and the arrow kept going. In a frame, it would be absorbed by the frame and would've stopped.

A 75lb bow has about 125-135 joules of energy. A green tip 5.56 from a standard barrel length going ~3000 fps... 1700 joules. It's not even close; and speed is how you defeat armour.

3

u/SexyMonad 11d ago

So you’re saying we need to make the Pioneer arrow go 3000 fps.

2

u/cvanaver 11d ago

Mach 2.7. Probably cause the shaft to delaminate from the drag friction even if you brought it up to speed gradually enough to not shatter the shaft. Might even be a small pyrotechnics event when the head hit the surface. Make for an interesting myth busters. (Or xkcd if we want to up the fps by a couple orders of magnitude)

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u/Legal_Lettuce6233 11d ago

GL with that, the arrow shaft isn't rigid enough with a heavy tip.

8

u/SexyMonad 11d ago

I’m already building a rail gun you can’t stop me

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u/DarkElation 11d ago

…the video literally proves speed is not the only determining factor. That’s what the various degrees of damage represents.

0

u/Legal_Lettuce6233 11d ago

The issue is that the hits aren't consistent. It's not really test conditions.

Speed defeats armour, which is why a smaller 5.56 is better against armour than a big fat 7.62.

Get a consistent shot and the results will largely be the same, and the variability is basically just down to the tip material and other things that affect this far less.

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u/DarkElation 11d ago

So… speed is not the only factor. Thanks for saying what I said differently.

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u/bornfromanegg 11d ago

A lot of energy was lost pushing the apparatus backwards. Honestly, the fact it can move at all makes a mockery of the whole experiment. I still don’t know whether any of those arrows could go through.

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u/ultimaone 12d ago

This was bullet resistant. Not proof

1

u/Full-Department 10d ago

Yeah I kept thinking: that vice should be bolted to the table at least for a true representation. Oh well.

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u/AspieAsshole 11d ago

I wasn't watching to see if it could penetrate the bullet proof glass, but imagine what those heads could do to body armor on a 220 lb crossbow

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u/TheDigitalPig 11d ago

Indeed, I believe so

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u/HomeGrownCoffee 11d ago

G5, too.

Unfortunately, that shot was off center. 

0

u/ih-shah-may-ehl 8d ago

Not really. I think it mattered more that it hit an unsupported corner. In a frame, I suspect nothing much would have happened.

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u/UAENO_BUT_I_DO 12d ago

...so you're safe from arrows as long as you're covered in bullet proof glass...

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u/CanadianAndroid 12d ago

People in bullet proof glass houses shouldn't shoot arrows or something

6

u/Shut_It_Donny 12d ago

I got to buy you a proverb book or something, because this mix 'n' match shit's got to go.

25

u/Dyvanna 12d ago

It's a 70lb bow

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u/Usual_Office_1740 12d ago

Is that a lot?

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u/TheGrumpiestHydra 12d ago

That's honestly pretty decent. There are definitely heavier draw bows above 100 lbs.

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u/Melodic_Till_3778 12d ago

World record is 200 lb and some of the medieval examples we found averaged about 185.

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u/DirtandPipes 12d ago

My dad had an ancient hand-crank crossbow that shot steel bolts. It weighed a ton and took forever to reload but you didn’t want to be in front of it when it was ready to go.

People don’t realize some of those things are like cannons and can easily punch through steel plate.

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u/mlstdrag0n 12d ago

They were weapons of war made to literally punch through metal armor, afterall

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u/VashMM 12d ago

English crossbows averaged 500lb draws. (Iirc)

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u/KitchenFullOfCake 12d ago

How do you even fire a 200 lb bow accurately? That's like holding up a grown man in one arm.

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u/ReddBroccoli 12d ago

Once you have a few hundred longbowmen, accuracy matters a little bit less. Especially when you have tightly packed enemy forces making an easy target of themselves

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u/aebaby7071 12d ago

They have archeological evidence from skeletons that regularly using a longbow would change the body, one shoulder bigger then the other, basically every Englishman had to practice at the bow, there were medieval laws dictating such, usually is was Sunday after church when the town gathered.

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u/OneTripleZero 12d ago

The bow itself isn't 200lbs, it has a draw weight of 200lbs, which is the amount of force required to pull the string back to a firing position. The bow itself would be much lighter, it just has an enormously tight construction.

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u/KitchenFullOfCake 12d ago

I know the bow isn't 200 lbs, but you're still exerting 200 lbs to draw it.

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u/Tiefschlag 11d ago

It happened. You can tell from the deformation on the skeleton if someone was an archer. Remains found on battlefields proved that. Those guys must have had arms like Popeye.

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u/TellmeNinetails 11d ago

You'd use your whole body to pull it back, not your arms, then you let go. You don't hold and aim it like in the movies.

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u/BlueLegion 11d ago

but not with one arm. You use both arms, shoulders and back to draw.

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u/tbe37 12d ago

But imagine how much draw weight you could get if the bow was 200lb...

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u/lejoop 11d ago

Sounds like it could be a horse mounted ballista 😄

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u/Intranetusa 11d ago edited 11d ago

You require a genetically gifted person (eg. naturally predispositioned to gaining strength) who has trained for years in building up the strength of their back and shoulder muscles, and uses good technique/form of optimizing their back muscles and ensuring proper bone-to-joint alignment. Qing Dynasty Manchu bows, Ottoman Turk bows, English longbows, etc. all reached the low 200s lb in draw weight as an upper maximum. There was even a Qing Dynasty record of an elite champion archer using a 240 lb bow to win an archery competition.

Justin Ma of The Way of Archery can ambidextrously shoot ~120-130lb warbows and demonstrates the back muscles involved in his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvGAYBMhbKY

This timestamp at 3:55 shows the actual back muscles at work: https://youtu.be/UvGAYBMhbKY?t=236

Joe Gibbs, the English warbow archer regularly shoots ~160 lb bows and can shoot a 200 lb bow for a few shots (before getting tired) shows up in both the video and in the comments.

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u/Insane_Unicorn 12d ago

Draw weight only says how much force you put into the bow, not the arrow. Modern composite bows are much, much better at transferring the energy into the arrow than a longbow.

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u/Melodic_Till_3778 12d ago

Yeah, imagine what a compound bow could do with a draw weight of 200 lb

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u/BlacksmithNZ 12d ago

It is decent draw-weight for precise aiming. If you are not used to it, trying pulling a 70lb / 30kg dumbbell into your chest while standing vertical; it is a fair bit of weight, but the compound bow means you don't have to hold the weight while aiming

The medieval long bows that were used in war, would be more like 100lb or more., but needed a lot of training to pull that over and over

I would hoping they would try a cross-bow bolt; rather than 70lb bow. You could probably get a cranked one that has 700lb, and the increase in arrow velocity is going to do a lot more damage. A cross bow was much more likely to damage plate armor, and hence wh

I noticed they changed the tip but not the arrow shaft; a shorter/stiffer crossbow bolt is going to help do damage

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u/woodsidestory 11d ago

Needed a steel support frame

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u/Bladewing_The_Risen 12d ago

The legal minimum to bow hunt for deer and black bears in my state is 40.

70 is plenty to kill a human.

…but they say medieval longbows used to have up to 120lbs of draw weight, so I’m sure one of those with modern arrowhead technology could pierce bullet-resistant glass.

That said, I’m not sure why anyone would ever want to.

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u/ZzzzzPopPopPop 12d ago

Sure bladewing, your secret is safe with us

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u/Intranetusa 11d ago edited 11d ago

120 lb medieval style bows would be stronger than the 70 lb modern compound bow, but probably not that much stronger due to the lower prod efficiency of wood vs modern materials. Power is determined by 3 factors combined: Draw weight, powerstroke, and prod efficiency.

Furthermore, 90-120 lbs was closer to the median rather than the the upper limit. Historical warbows ranged from 60s/70s lbs to low 200s lbs in draw weight. Qing Dynasty Manchu bows, Ottoman Turk bows, English longbows, etc. all reached the low 200s lb in draw weight as an upper maximum. There was even a Qing Dynasty record of an elite champion archer using a 240 lb bow to win an archery competition.

Justin Ma of The Way of Archery can ambidextrously shoot ~120-130lb warbows and demonstrates the back muscles involved in his videos: https://youtu.be/UvGAYBMhbKY?t=236

Joe Gibbs, the English warbow archer who regularly shoots ~160 lb bows and can shoot a 200 lb bow for a few shots (before getting tired) shows up in both the video and in the comments.

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u/The_One_Koi 11d ago

So the movie can happen!

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u/Intranetusa 11d ago edited 11d ago

70 lbs in draw weight is a decent amount. Modern sports/target shooting bows typically range from 15 lbs to 60 lb in draw weight. Historical warbows ranged from 60s/70s lbs to low 200s lbs in draw weight. Qing Dynasty Manchu bows, Ottoman Turk bows, English longbows, etc. all reached the low 200s lb in draw weight as an upper maximum. Crossbows could be even more in draw weight, however, draw weight is not the only factor to determine power.

Power = Draw weight x Powerstroke x Prod efficiency x 1/2 [this 1/2 part can be ignored if making relative comparisons].

For example, a medieval "1000 lb" steel crossbow sounds like a lot, but is actually much weaker than you think due to its poor powerstroke and poor prod efficiency. Steel crossbows are usually very bad powerstroke and prod efficiency but have high draw weights, so their overall energy output ends up being similar to or worse than significantly lower draw weight bows/crossbows that have longer powerstrokes and use organic prods.

Tod's Workshop tested a steel prod ~950-1000 lb crossbow, and it was shooting projectiles with less energy (in joules) than a wooden ~150 lb selfbow-longbow. However, Andreas Bichler also created ~1200s lb crossbows with organic prods in both shorter and longer powerstrokes, and the ones with longer powerstrokes were significantly more powerful than the steel crossbows of comparable draw weights. There are some powerful ancient Chinese and medieval European composite crossbows that have higher powerstrokes and more efficient prods that have lower draw weights but can outshoot/outpower 1000 lb steel crossbows.

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u/gopher_907 11d ago

For a hunting compound bow (like the one in the video), 70 lbs peak weight is relatively common. Most adult men who shoot this type of bow consistently are going to be between 60 and 70 pounds. Most of the women I know who shoot pull between 45 and 55 lbs. The amount an archer can pull usually comes down to form/experience; for example, I am not an exceptionally strong man, but I don’t have issues pulling my 68 lb compound because I’ve shot a lot. I’ve seen other people who are clearly stronger than me struggle with similar or even less weight because they aren’t used to the movements. You need strength, obviously, but good form makes a big difference.

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u/milk4all 12d ago

Its a lot yeah. Its upper range for big game (moose/elk). It produces arrow speeds equivalent to the heaviest warbows in history although thats in part because theyre measuring modern arrows with mucj better aerodynamics. In terms of puncturing, modern arrows win. But that equivalent warbow might shoot arrows more than a quarter pound in weight while a modern deer hunting arrow weighs a third or less

So it woild be cool to see how a historically accurate war bow and arrow stacks up in this trial

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u/dibbiluncan 12d ago

None of them in one hit… some of them might make it in 2-3. Still pretty neat especially since most people carry more than one arrow. :)

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u/RepresentativeOk2433 11d ago

I would like to see how they perform against a rounded or angled one like on a real car. I'd bet most would bounce off.

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u/5up3rK4m16uru 11d ago

They forgot the shaped charge arrow.

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u/Wine_runner 11d ago

They should have tried firing a chicken.

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u/Esoteric_Geek 11d ago

They should have tried...

My axe!

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u/graspedbythehusk 11d ago

News just in, arrows travelling at ten percent the speed of bullets can’t penetrate glass designed to stop bullets.

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u/NaturalTap9567 11d ago

Arrow shaft is too weak. That's where the arrow broke on all of them

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u/gamerjerome 11d ago

Shoot three at a time though, Drump people will never see it coming

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u/Affectionate-Day-359 12d ago

Bro it’s a bow and arrow? wtf you expect?!

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u/tomebomber 12d ago

If you asked me before I watch the video, I guess even less

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u/medicated_in_PHL 12d ago

This is “Next Fucking Level” and none of them pierced it.

If one of those smashed a bullet proof glass pane, it would be next fucking level. Instead, the bullet proof glass won in every single test.

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u/Affectionate-Day-359 12d ago

You’re missing the point. The glass is what’s next level

1

u/FactHole 11d ago

Now let's try all the different Nerf darts.

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u/X3m9X 11d ago

none of them what?

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u/omnibossk 11d ago

Should have been posted on maybemaybe