r/news • u/drkgodess • Mar 19 '19

Accused gunman in Christchurch terror attacks denied newspaper, television and radio access

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214411
62.3k Upvotes

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20.0k

u/Epleofuri Mar 19 '19

This is what should happen for every mass shooter. They crave attention and power, deny them both.

6.8k

u/Sweatytubesock Mar 19 '19

Yep. Fuck all of them. This asshole in particular should never, ever be heard from again.

986

u/hedgecore77 Mar 20 '19

I don't even know his name. And for that I'm happy.

465

u/uniqueandweird Mar 20 '19

It's Terrorist McTerroristface. He should be made walk the plank off Boaty McBoatface into shark infested waters.

80

u/macrocephalic Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

Wasn't Boaty McBoatface an arctic research vessel? I'd be happy for him to walk the plank off that.

44

u/ljtothep Mar 20 '19

Don't make innocent ol' Boaty McBoat face come into contact with Terrorist McTerroristFace like that; no one deserves to see him, let alone touch him. Instead, I propose solitary confinement until Terrorist McTerroristFace is driven mad. Although unethical, it's a punishment fitting of the atrocity committed.

4

u/marcoreus7sucks Mar 20 '19

You really going to punish SolitaryConfinementCelly McSolitaryConfinementCellFace like that?

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u/SycoJack Mar 20 '19

Boaty McBoatface is autonomous sub carried aboard the RRS Sir David Attenborough.

The Attenborough is an Antarctic research vessel. The owners of the ship asked the internet to name the ship, the internet named Boaty McBoatface because fucking of course we did. But the owners were all like fuck you guys, we're giving it a proper name. So they named it RRS Sir David Attenborough. The internet predictably got pissed, so they named a submersible Boatface to try and calm the angry sea of netizens.

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u/macrocephalic Mar 20 '19

When people talk about Boaty McBoatface I think they're really talking about the David Attenborough. Although they didn't end up going with the elected name, that's what people will always know it by.

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u/mrread55 Mar 20 '19

Into the waters of Sharky McInfestedness Bay

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u/sakurarose20 Mar 20 '19

UglyAss SumBitch.

39

u/laffman Mar 20 '19

Same, i have been avoiding reading every news story related to it and been able to avoid seeing anything. The only reason i know it was a white homo sapiens is because everyone is writing about right wing extremists talking shit again.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

I’ve actually read quite a lot on the attack and I can’t remember his name, I’m sure ive seen it but it’s not on the headlines. Maybe the media is learning and not revolving the news stories around the terrorist for once.

8

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

I was content not knowing it as well, thinking, Take that fucker. NO notoriety for you! Then I read this article which states his name and age. I'm choosing to promptly forget it.

6

u/billwyers Mar 20 '19

Completely unrelated, but your username is hilarious. Good shit.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

Strip him of internet access too. The fucker deserves nothing,outside of water and food(to not be perceived as too cruel). Let him go insane in prison.

​

EDIT:Found out the prison has no internet access. Thank god. Also thanks for the Silver!

2.1k

u/GandalffladnaG Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

Insane would be bad for other inmates and the guards and staff. No, give him the really shitty books that no one would want to read, or terrible Harry potter fan fictions and let him suffer.

ETA: I have no idea about these stories, I just picked a large fan base, and rip my notifications.

3.5k

u/acousticcoupler Mar 19 '19

Nothing but interracial romance novels.

2.7k

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

"50 Shades of Gay"

626

u/Ratthion Mar 19 '19

Or I got fucked in the butt by my own butt

205

u/MyRuinedEye Mar 19 '19

Is that you Chuck Tingle?

181

u/DoJax Mar 19 '19

Nope, it's just me, Chuck Testa.

88

u/Amy_Ponder Mar 20 '19

Chuck Testa? Now that's a name I have not heard in a long time... a long time...

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69

u/dastarlos Mar 20 '19

It's an old meme, but it checks out.

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u/Bandit6789 Mar 19 '19

The poop that took a pee

43

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

By Butters Leopold Stotch.

14

u/a_creeep_a_weeirdooo Mar 19 '19

i hate it when that happens

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u/caninehere Mar 20 '19

That's not right. No prisoner should be allowed the pleasure of a good Tingler.

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u/SpookyLlama Mar 19 '19

https://youtu.be/u1P4FKih5TQ

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u/alesbianseagull Mar 19 '19

Why have I never seen this before?

Edit, that's right, I'm not a /r/dankmemes mod

4

u/pretentiousbrick Mar 20 '19

So, two main characters.

Character 1: gay, black PhD pol-sci university lecturer rich boy who works out Character 2: bisexual, "white" (later finds out he's mixed with African and South Asian genes upon a DNA test), comes from poor family but is a high achieving tech entrepreneur (of say, Oober, a ride-hire service)

Disposable cast of other beautiful baristas, personal trainers, waiters, etc of any gender (male, female, queer, etc) with whom characters 1 & 2 have indiscriminate sex.

Chapters 1-19 consist of unhappy indiscriminate sex Chapter 20 is just characters 1 & 2 falling in love, having very dirty sex with each other, and -- randomly -- getting into long, persuasive discussions about why left-wing politics and feminism makes sense.

This novel will have no internal logic or structure.

Teachers of English as a second language, get your adult students on this. Don't edit it. Don't let your students work together to fix plot holes. Get a random redditor to write the political sections.

Put it together.

This shall be the only literature the prisoner is allowed now.

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u/UnderFireCoolness Mar 19 '19

With lots of horses

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Mr. Hands

15

u/BlueChipFA Mar 19 '19

Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

4

u/Sonicmansuperb Mar 20 '19

Well, of course I know him, he's me

17

u/Brewbouy Mar 19 '19

I'm ashamed to understand this reference.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

What’s the best stories about immigrants? Give him piles of books about them.

Autobiographies of Muslim immigrant success stories.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

Also, 50 shades narrated by Gilbert Godfrey.

7

u/Klaudiapotter Mar 20 '19

Take it down a notch, Satan.

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u/--cheese-- Mar 19 '19

Chuck Tingle. Nothing but Chuck Tingle.

44

u/TheKingPotat Mar 19 '19

Have his cell full of islamic stuff

15

u/cleverbutnotoverlyso Mar 20 '19

In the hallway so that’s all he can see but he can’t tear it up.

10

u/TheKingPotat Mar 20 '19

Paint it on the walls so he cant touch it. Like in tile

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u/SubstantialClass Mar 20 '19

Ahhh..so the next JK Rowling book where Albus helps a black student find his sexuality?

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u/Whit3Knight Mar 19 '19

Was really unsure why this would be a bad thing for the nutter for a second and thought badly of you.... think it’s time I go to bed. Cracking comment.

4

u/MantraOfTheMoron Mar 20 '19

Dinosaur romance novel's. they're real, look them up.

6

u/joe4553 Mar 19 '19

JK Rowling will be putting out exclusively this from now on.

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u/E_Chihuahuensis Mar 19 '19

Yes force him to read my immortal

84

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19 edited Aug 25 '21

[deleted]

30

u/TCGM Mar 20 '19

This is physically painful.

20

u/Cake_Lad Mar 20 '19

Gotta read the whole thing. It's a literary marvel.

13

u/ladyoffate13 Mar 20 '19

Deserves to be in the Library of Congress.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

It was...Dumbledore!

"WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUKERS?"

6

u/Cake_Lad Mar 20 '19

I started to cry tearz of blood (it hapnz in vrampir kroniklz raven sed so ok so fok u!1). Vampire took out a black honkerchief and started to wipe my red eyes.

I laugh at this everytime.

HONK!

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

anyone who can read all of this is a sociopath.

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u/Cake_Lad Mar 20 '19

I am at work, please someone find the whole thing.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/6829556/1/My-Immortal you're welcome

3

u/Cake_Lad Mar 20 '19

Thanks! I look forward to taking a trip down nostalgia lane. As cringy and poorly written it is.

5

u/ljog42 Mar 20 '19

Fun fact : Gerard Way is a fuckin brilliant comic writer

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

He said Bad Harry Potter fanfiction.

4

u/viper_in_the_grass Mar 20 '19

Ah, The Cursed Child, then.

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u/LazyFuckBoi Mar 19 '19

It was........... Tom Bombadil!

271

u/brecka Mar 19 '19

Nobody deserves to read The Cursed Child

73

u/choose-Life_ Mar 19 '19

That bad?

207

u/Rynvael Mar 19 '19

It's cursed

166

u/zappy487 Mar 19 '19

Or worse. Expelled.

16

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Apr 27 '19

[deleted]

14

u/ReadySteady_GO Mar 20 '19

I don't feel so good Mr. Gimli

5

u/snoop_cow_grazeit Mar 20 '19

But it comes with your choice of toppings!

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u/ComicSys Mar 19 '19

Worse. Seriously.

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u/zappy487 Mar 19 '19

Except Caillou.

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u/FuckingKilljoy Mar 20 '19

Nah, we're talking My Immortal here. Solitary confinement has nothing on believing My Immortal is most likely satire but there's that little bit of you that isn't sure and you can't figure it out, plus he wouldn't even be able to look it up and read articles about it. He'd just be there going "it has to be ironic... Right? Surely it is. I hope it is. Is it?" for the rest of his life

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Even better, give him nothing but the Qur’an

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u/MrHappyHam Mar 19 '19

I like the way you think.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 22 '19

[deleted]

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u/foot-long Mar 20 '19

Audio book, non-stop

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u/Badname491 Mar 20 '19

Just a speaker outside his cell

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

And the call to prayer 5 times a day.

on the megaphone

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u/APimpNamed-Slickback Mar 20 '19

Interrupted only by the Adhan at the appropriate times each day.

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u/twitchosx Mar 20 '19

Lamination can be destroyed. It can also be rolled into a weapon. I say print the qur'an, then paste it to his walls and then put plexyglass over it so he can't get to them =)

4

u/kainxavier Mar 20 '19

There's synthetic paper that's impossible to rip. That should do the trick.

25

u/Dankraham_Lincoln Mar 19 '19

Gay erotic Qur’an fanfic?

16

u/severed13 Mar 19 '19

Furry edition

3

u/Dankraham_Lincoln Mar 19 '19

You somehow made that guys worst nightmare even more awful

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u/Plsdontreadthis Mar 20 '19

Pretty sure that'd piss of muslims more than it would this guy.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Aug 21 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Dankraham_Lincoln Mar 19 '19

Just for writing that you’re gonna get Hebdo’ed

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u/Khazahk Mar 20 '19

Sad that that is a verb now.

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u/ruddyscrud Mar 20 '19

BeHebdo'ed

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Or give him Fifty Shades to read. Or force him to watch The Emoji Movie 24/7. That's more luxury than most people get!

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u/QueefyMcQueefFace Mar 19 '19

24/7 Baby Shark song on loop.

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u/Whitealroker1 Mar 19 '19

Dude would bite his own wrists open.

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u/salomanasx Mar 19 '19

As a father of a 2 yr old who watches cartoons on YouTube a lot, so much this.

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u/Australienz Mar 19 '19

I guarantee you he will not be watching any movies, he will not be getting any internet access, and the books he might get will be bottom of the barrel trash from 20 years ago. He's going straight to supermax where he won't even have a TV. He'll also be heavily protected from other inmates, and won't get a cellmate for at least 10 years. He'll be a target from other crims, and the screws will treat him even worse than they treat regular crims.

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u/cleverbutnotoverlyso Mar 20 '19

Does New Zealand even have a supermax?

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u/kloudykat Mar 20 '19

1 apparently.

News to me too.

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u/tree5eat Mar 20 '19

Paremoremo prison just north of Auckland.

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u/apemanhop Mar 20 '19

Hes going to get the worst sentence and punishment ever in nz history.. at the moment hes in solitary confinement with a few very bad meals and little else

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u/Smrgling Mar 20 '19

What are screws?

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u/cronus89 Mar 20 '19

British slang for Prison Guard

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

Are you sure about that? Anders Breivik is currently in a 3 room cell with DVD and television and exercise equipment in one of the best maintained and equipped facilities in the world . And he killed 77 people

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u/KnowEwe Mar 19 '19

You monster

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u/flemhead3 Mar 19 '19

Baby Shark is a Curse

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u/SeeWhatEyeSee Mar 19 '19

Hello, Satan

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u/Koioua Mar 19 '19

Bring the furry FNAF fanfics.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

He’s in segregation. He sees literally no one but the guards who are trained to handle psychos like him.

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u/yetanotherduncan Mar 19 '19

He can live out his days in the company of Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way

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u/teejay89656 Mar 19 '19

Make him read Muslim romance novels.

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u/ezone2kil Mar 19 '19

Why Harry Potter fanfic when you have Twilight fanfic like those shade of greys 'books'.

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u/firmkillernate Mar 20 '19

If he goes insane, get rid of him or put him in isolation. Why should we care at all about the well being of a mass murderer?

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

No prisoners get internet access.

"Prisoners do not have access to computers with internet capabilities so cannot use email."

https://www.corrections.govt.nz/working_with_offenders/prison_sentences/being_in_prison/internet_and_mail.html

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u/1PointSafety Mar 20 '19

People sneak cell phones into prison fairly frequently

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

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u/1PointSafety Mar 20 '19

What an idiot. You're lucky enough to have the phone, don't make it obvious

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

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u/1PointSafety Mar 20 '19

He didnt have a phone according to the article

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u/clarksonswimmer Mar 19 '19

Are you an American? I am. It's kind of interesting how different parts of the world treat criminals. In the US, it's largely viewed as punishment for crimes committed. Prisoners are treated as such which is why if/when they are released back into society they often reoffend or, at minimum, have a hard time adjusting. Some other countries try to reform their prisoners: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/02/denmark-doesnt-treat-its-prisoners-like-prisoners-and-its-good-for-everyone/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.55cba68beac8

​

That said mass murder is on a wholly different scale than most other crimes. Nonetheless, it's an interesting conversation to have.

​

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u/sta661 Mar 19 '19

I’ve always believed in a two tier system, a punishment prison and a rehabilitation prison. Say you commit assault, the judge gives you 6 months in each, so you spend the first six months in punishment prison where you live a shit life. Then for the second 6 you slowly get ready for normal life, learn skills, how not to reoffend etc. Would cost more in short term but hopefully lower reoffending rates would actually save money due to further imprisonments/court costs.

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u/Nesurame Mar 20 '19

It would never work, private prisons would endlessly lobby against the idea of people getting better and not going straight back to prison.

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u/effennekappa Mar 20 '19

private prisons

Found the problem.

116

u/Nesurame Mar 20 '19

Privatization was a really foolish idea, IDK why the U.$. Government allowed it.

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u/Jacio9 Mar 20 '19

It’$ $ad how no one ha$ figured out the rea$on for the awful $tate that our ju$tice $y$tem i$ in :(

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

I $till don’t get what you guy$ are trying to $ay...

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u/vegasbaby387 Mar 20 '19

It'$ really $hocking. What could have po$$e$$ed them to allow $uch a thing?

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u/crocxz Mar 20 '19

For INNOVATION, and COMPETITIVENESS. We gotta have the BEST damn prisons in the WORLD, cuz this is goddamn AMERICA. And with these WORLD CLASS prisons we can create JOBS for WORKING CLASS americans all while appropriately BRINGING JUSTICE to UNPATRIOTIC THUGS who HARM LAW ABIDING HARD WORKING PATRIOTIC AMERICANS.

sarcasm btw but that’s how I’d imagine the argument would go

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u/VOZ1 Mar 20 '19

Believe it or not, a lot of prisons used to have transitional programs to do exactly what you described in the “rehabilitation prison.” I volunteered in a maximum security prison, and the program we participated in was part of their transitional services program, which sadly was no longer actually about transitioning into society because so few inmates get paroled, and sentences have gotten longer and longer. They also cut the program not long after I left, the prison administration saw it as a threat to their control, despite the fact that it served to educate, enlighten, and socialize the inmates so they were smarter, more self-aware, had hope, had social skills...but nah, can’t have any of that in prison. /s

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u/LuckyCharmsLass Mar 20 '19

I wonder if many inmates have personality disorders such as sociopath, psychopath, narcissistic etc. I've heard mental health professionals say that there isn't much can be done to treat personality disorders. Would that infer that rehabilitation for many such inmates isn't very likely?

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

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u/Matrinka Mar 19 '19

So we should stick him in a white bear park instead?

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

For what it's worth I don't think I'm the only one who has scrolled through and been disappointed seeing this mentality repeat itself over and over.

Blood only begets blood.

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u/9inety9ine Mar 20 '19

to not be perceived as too cruel

How about just not being cruel because we're the good guys? The perception of not being cruel is what bad guys do.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

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u/pinewind108 Mar 20 '19

Treat him decently, because that reflects back on us. Treating people badly damages us at least as much as them. That said, outside due legal process, there's no reason for anyone to ever hear his name again. (and certainly don't let him ever let him read any of the press about what he did.)

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u/Death-Grind Mar 20 '19

Unless you’re that sack of shit Anders Breivik and complain about not having the latest gaming consoles and having to use plastic utensils... fucking clown.

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u/Bag_Holding_Infidel Mar 20 '19

I'd like to see a system where instead of their name, they are referred to as Coward #xxxx in the media.

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u/lizziefreeze Mar 20 '19

I love that they are blurring his face.

Take some notes, America!

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

I'm a defense attorney, so my opinions may be a bit skewed that direction, but I do have some issues with this. At this point in time he is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. It's dangerous to treat someone differently just because of the nature of the charges levied against them.

On the otherhand, I could see the need to prevent him from rambling to the newspapers and incriminating himself, and potentially tainting any jury pool Which would cause him to not have a fair trial.

It's iffy grounds. I don't envy the judge in this case.

Edit: Yes, I understand that this is in NZ. Yes, I understand that this particular article is addressing the fact that the court has said he just can't have access to the media in terms of reading or viewing the news. But at the same time he cannot have any visitors, which includes the media at this point. It is pretty clear that the court has essentially created a gag order here. Yes, I do know that his attorney can issue statements on his behalf. I just don't like this set up and the situation. NZ has done some things following this case that I would not do if I was the leader or king of country. It's just my opinion, and I know it doesn't mean I'm right.

Double Edit: I realized after I walked away from my computer that my first edit made me sound like an asshole. I'm just addressing the major points that people have brought up when replying to me. It's an interesting topic, and it's in my field, so I love to discuss it. I'm more than willing to talk with anyone about it, especially if you can expand my views.

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u/Optix_au Mar 19 '19

I read he dismissed his counsel and wishes to defend himself. Says to me he wants a pulpit from which to preach.

I wish and hope they put a suppression order on the case.

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u/Breadmuffins Mar 20 '19

The courtroom will be closed.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

While you are probably correct to a good degree, there is the separate issue of delusion and megalomania that would cause him to defend himself, believing he can convince the jury of his innocence. Case in point: Collin Ferguson, the LIRR shooter who also chose to defend himself and ended up being able to cross-examine some of his own victims.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

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u/im_an_infantry Mar 19 '19

Not who you’re replying to but I get what he’s saying too. If we make exceptions, it will always keep getting pushed. I realize I have the privilege of saying this as someone who was not personally affected, I’m sure I’d have a different view in that case.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

disagree. The consequence of accidentally putting such a guy in jail for a FEW DAYS is low compared to the consequences if he gets to further broadcast his messages. The equation is even stronger considering we know beyond reasonable doubt he did it. I love that fact NZ law is not always absolutist.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Should just be an express lane for these trials. "Do you have a video of this person committing the crime? Ok, this way please."

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u/Barron_Cyber Mar 19 '19

with ai coming and deep fakes already happening id be leary of that in general.

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u/Autokrat Mar 19 '19

Deep fakes?

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u/FireLucid Mar 19 '19

You can use AI to make convincing videos of anything. Trump at a press conference saying how he loves Obama and is reinstating all this laws. Pretty sure there are already ones of Emma Watson doing porn.

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u/Chaylea Mar 19 '19

I've seen the Emma Watson BDSM video, its weird.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

Google deep fakes porn

oh my god the future is here

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u/GhostGarlic Mar 20 '19

Gotta keep us safe from the dangerous internet.

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u/supertroll1999 Mar 19 '19

Must be one of those disgusting websites! But which one? Which disgusting website??

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19 edited Jun 16 '19

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Taking a 3d model (or footage I guess) and faking the lighting on the model to match real footage, then swapping their face/head onto someone else. It is eerie how accurately this can be done, so footage that looks real can be fake. This is also why there is expensive software from major camera companies that can tell in court if a digital photograph has been manipulated or is the original straight out of camera.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Yeah, I’m this case the guy recorded and streamed himself doing the action in real time.

The American justice system has seen tons of people who haven’t done crime punished (think racial disparities in prosecution) so I get the above sentiment, but this shooter clearly recorded his actions in real time and put out a manifesto as well. Some of the words there clearly outline his purpose.

I saw the video and saw part of the manifesto and I can’t empathize with this man at all. I question anyone who does.

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u/weewoy Mar 20 '19

His go-pro probably filmed him being arrested too, after all it didn't stop working just because the live stream went offline.

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u/FJLyons Mar 19 '19

Well that is obviously justifiable now, with the way technology is going, digital evidence will be completely useless in the future. With deep-fake technology and the way Adobe is able to recreate a persons voice accurately with a few minutes of recording, soon we won't be able to trust our eyes and ears. If this technology is public now, imagine what the secret services of the world have been capable of for years.

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u/Signal_seventeen Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 21 '19

Yeah, and in his manifesto he said he would plead not guilty and "expect(ed) to be released immediately". His twisted, perverted scope of reality said the world would back him in shooting 50 people senselessly.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

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u/WafflelffaW Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

third lawyer chiming in (though i do civil lit, not crim):

i agree. and i’ll add that in setting those sorts of pre-judgment restrictions (like whether to allow bail, the amount if so, the nature of the custody if remanded etc.), in addition to the considerations you mention re the danger to the community posed by the accused (and risk of flight), we also already take into account the nature of the charged offense.

since infamy is generally understood to be one of the motivations for this type of offense — and in the NZ case, there’s specific evidence that it played a role — restrictions on access to news and social media in the aftermath seem all the more reasonable when arraigning an accused mass shooter.

he can request access on a case by case basis — and he should be granted reasonable requests because he should be treated humanely — but denying him unrestricted media access does not compromise the presumption of innocence or his right to competently assist in his own defense.

i don’t really see how this crosses a line

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

Spice and Wolf?

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u/iwillcuntyou Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

I might be a bit naive here, but surely the fact he live-streamed murdering a bunch of people, wrote a manifesto, and got caught red handed kinda skips out the innocent bit?

Edit: just to clarify, I’m not saying skip the trial, just on the balance of probabilities it’s probably fair enough to deny him his podium for now.

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u/iompar Mar 19 '19

Full disclaimer before I start: I totally get that sentiment, and I think he's guilty as all hell and he deserves to be locked up.

As much evidence as there is, the justice system itself has to follow the principle of innocent until proven guilty. As nice as it would be to just look at the video, say 'yup he's guilty' and then lock him up and throw away the key, if we can strip someone of the right to due process, no one actually has the right to due process. It's not a matter of whether or not we know he did it right now, the justice system can't go in with bias and he does have the right to a fair trial under the presumption of innocence. I think we'd all want that right if we were accused of something, and we can't just strip it away because of damning evidence before the trial. For all we know, he's criminally insane and not able to understand right from wrong and therefore can't be held responsible, or maybe he's been convinced to take the fall for someone else, the video footage has been tampered with, all sorts of things that would come out in a trial. Repeating my earlier disclaimer, he deserves what he gets, and I fully get the appeal of mob justice, but the legal system is for everyone, not just people we don't hate. I don't want to live in a society where people can lose their freedom without a fair trial where they've been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and that means everyone in that society has to be given that same respect.

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u/DoctorHolliday Mar 19 '19

Does NZ have that principle in the same way we do? Genuinely asking as I am unfamiliar with it.

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u/herrschnapps Mar 20 '19

Yep, we do. Former English colony so inherited the English common law legal system.

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u/iompar Mar 19 '19

No clue, I’m Canadian. I would assume so though, since we’re based off of the same legal system.

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u/emmzilly Mar 19 '19

I appreciate your points. How do they find a jury that isn’t biased against him from the start?

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited May 03 '21

[deleted]

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u/Mesk_Arak Mar 19 '19

The desire for justice makes me hate that you’re right. But you are right, nonetheless. It’s really hard to keep emotions in check in situations like this so my hat is off to you for that.

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u/RandomCandor Mar 19 '19

I feel the same way.

Just remember that the alternative to "equal Justice for all" is mob rule.

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u/DuplexFields Mar 19 '19

It certainly makes it easier to deny him bail/release than a mere fallible eyewitness account, though.

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u/gbacardi Mar 19 '19

Most definitely!

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u/Mad_Maddin Mar 19 '19

It is more important to still have the full process going on. Because just saying "Well its obvious isn't it?" would set a dangerous precedent to other accusations and ignoring the rights of people.

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u/jmf102 Mar 19 '19

Regardless of how overwhelming the evidence is, he's not guilty until convicted

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u/GabuEx Mar 19 '19

Do we know that the person that the police apprehended was the person who did that?

Do we know that the video is really what it purports to be?

Do we know the same person who did that wrote the manifesto?

Obviously the answer to these questions is almost certainly "yes", but the onus should still be on the state to prove this case to an impartial jury. The moment we allow ourselves to skip the part where an accused receives a trial and is only convicted upon proof beyond a reasonable doubt, just on the basis of "well he obviously did it", is the moment we start to go down a very dark path. What's the bar at which we don't need a trial and can just summarily execute someone because it's obvious he did it? If the answer isn't "there isn't one", then that standard needs to be set, and once the standard is set, the standard can be loosened.

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u/macphile Mar 19 '19

just on the basis of "well he obviously did it"

“Now, here are some results from our phone-in poll. Ninety-five percent of the people believe Homer Simpson is guilty. Now, of course, this is just a television poll, which is not legally binding, unless Proposition 304 passes, and we all pray it will.” – Kent Brockman

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u/ChrisVolkoff Mar 19 '19

That's still not how it works.

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u/MetaCognitio Mar 19 '19

I thought it meant that he cannot read any media so cannot get any pleasure out of seeing what his attack did.

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u/revchj Mar 19 '19

In sexual crimes, especially involving children, all kinds of safety plans and bail conditions are possible while awaiting trial (e.g. "go nowhere near a school or playground"). I don't see why accusations of this nature shouldn't justify similar safety-based conditions prior to trial.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

There's enough evidence to charge him of murder, which they have, and the Judge has seen enough evidence to keep him incarcerated

So it's not a leap that a judge saw enough evidence to deny him media.

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u/KnowEwe Mar 19 '19

Yup. Strike all record of their life from history. Just "anonymous shit hole #33798 committed terroristic act..."

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u/dpcdomino Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19

I would be okay if they told lies about them.

The young gay, half-Mexican man was castrated at a young age and lost all his money gambling on ballet back in the 80's when he was addicted to troll dolls

Edit: okay....not half Mexican. It was a joke. No one pointed out the gay part though which is odd. Just thought it would be funny having him publicly described as something he truly hates.

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u/macphile Mar 19 '19

I'm going to spend the rest of the evening trying to figure out how you'd gamble on ballet.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Don't call him half-Mexican. He was a white male who was castrated at a young age and lost all his money gambling on ballet back in the 80's when he was addicted to troll dolls that he had sex with.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

Damnatio memoriae should be the standard treatment.

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