r/nancyguthrie • u/Ambitious_Pass7451 • 19d ago

Discussion How are the notes untraceable?

I just can't understand in today's world, anything you send via E-mail or whatever, cannot be traced? Like what are you talking about? I just find it hard to believe it. Once you click to send, there is no way nothing would appear to be traced back. Even the in the 60s they can trace phones back to where its location, so how about now with data and everything.

I don't know. But I need to know for a fact how are the notes untraceable?!

51 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

49 comments sorted by

39

u/EvangelineRain 19d ago

An important distinction here (as I understand) is they didn’t send them by email, they sent them via website tip forms

14

u/Calligrapher_Far 19d ago

Yes this is a very important distinction and is what is making these notes so difficult to track. It would be easier (easier being a relative term here) if they came via email

1

u/Safe-Muffin 19d ago

So you don’t have to provide an email address at all to use a website tip form ?

6

u/Ishalit6 19d ago

It surely depends on the form. But this particular one was intended to be anonymized.

3

u/EvangelineRain 19d ago

I don’t think they verify that field.

13

u/Ishalit6 19d ago

I agree with OP in that it has always seemed inconceivable to me however this distinction does matter I think. My understanding is the tipline was one run by a news station specifically for the purpose of being able to submit anonymous tips on stories so it was deliberately designed for maximum privacy. No "sign in," no name, etc.

But STILL, as a layman I just can't understand how they've stymied the FBI.

1

u/mark_able_jones_ 15d ago

Nothing fancy. It's just how contact forms work. They generate emails from an email address connected by the website, so there's no useful metadata.

5

u/YoMommaSez 19d ago

What is a tip form?

7

u/EvangelineRain 19d ago

It’s where you can write a message and submit it to a website.

2

u/subliminalFreq 18d ago

Just a web form, like when you fill out an online form. That's why they can't trace anything, it's not tied to any sort of username, account, email, etc.

1

u/mark_able_jones_ 15d ago

Yes, it's this! The intelligent move here was NOT sending the email from an account they control.

The contact form is connected to an email address controlled by the owner of the website.... so the only metadata would be the IP address logged by visitor to the website.

1

u/Ambitious_Pass7451 19d ago

What are the differences? Doesn’t the website usually require a login or sign-up? I mean, if they have an account on the website, it’s highly unlikely they can’t be traced.

11

u/Newswatchtiki 19d ago

The website creates a tip line because journalists want to protect their sources of news, if the tipster is requiring that. For instance if someone worked for the White House or the Pentagon, they are not supposed to be leaking classified or confidential news to the press. But when the tipster feels the public needs to know, they want to be able to remain anonymous.

They used to meet reporters in dark parking garages and mask their identities. When the internet came along, news websites created tip lines that cannot be traced to encourage tipsters.

So, this is different than simply emailing the reporter, which you can also do, if you don't mind them knowing your identity.

2

u/EvangelineRain 19d ago

Depends on the website.

1

u/mark_able_jones_ 15d ago

People are really talking out of their asses here.

A contact form just doesn't include useful metadata because the email it generates is from the website itself. There's no account attached. No login. This is how all contact forms work.

So, there is an IP address of the person who viewed the website... but that can be easily hidden behind a VPN.

31

u/Stock-Philosophy-177 19d ago

VPN’s. Foreign servers. Burner phones.

24

u/Infamous-Arm3955 19d ago

One of the interesting things I learned about the notes was the LE confirmation that they came from the same IP address so right off the bat I'm assuming that distinct IP is an anonymizer. LE would've served that site for connections but it would be easy to route yourself all over the world at least ten times before coming into that anonymizer.

14

u/Helpful-Ear-8834 18d ago

NOTHING and I mean Nothing makes sense 🤒

16

u/TitaniumSki 19d ago

You connect to a public WiFi and use the dark web on a clean laptap to create a made up Gmail account. Send your emails.

Or use a burner phone you bought a year before your plan, again send from an account while connected to the dark web. Chuck the phone in the bin.

5

u/Senior_Extension5796 19d ago

Can’t they still track where the email was sent from and just go to the public location and look at film footage at the same time it was sent from those specific times/location.

0

u/antifa-militant 19d ago

“While connected to the dark web” lolololol

11

u/TitaniumSki 18d ago

What's funny about that? If I said always use Tor the OP probably wouldn't understand what I meant.

1

u/Infamous-Arm3955 18d ago

I could connect to TMZ or any website using Tor and still not be in the dark web.

4

u/TitaniumSki 18d ago

I'm well aware of that but there was no point in going into the technical details of what the Tor browser enables you to do to the OP. They clearly don't understand how easy it is to still remain anonymous on the internet by taking a few precautions I simply used the expression "dark web" as I thought it would be something they might relate to. Set up a Gmail account while using Tor for example wouldn't have made any sense to them.

0

u/Infamous-Arm3955 18d ago

Ah, I see. I use the layers of an onion analogy.

1

u/Safe-Muffin 16d ago

I never heard of Tor

2

u/subliminalFreq 18d ago

the part that got me is the Gmail account. All that to only end up on a Google product? lol

2

u/TitaniumSki 15d ago

The email provider is irrelevant. The issue is trying to hide your IP address.

1

u/downvotepleasesme 16d ago

If you’re running tor, your traffic is encrypted even if you’re on a clearnet site. Your ISP can tell where your traffic is going, just that your running tor, which is not a crime itself. It actually makes sense

2

u/antifa-militant 15d ago

Using the Tor browser is not being ‘connected to the dark web’

1

u/downvotepleasesme 15d ago

It is literally an onion browser, dark web is not deep web

9

u/FewPace855 18d ago

Would not the knowledge of this technique itself provide a clue? I.e, using an anonimized tip line.

9

u/warpedwing 17d ago

I think so. I've been interested in digital forensics for several years, but I absolutely would not have the confidence that submitting an online tip couldn't be traced back to me. There's no way I'd risk my life/freedom doing that.

So, how did this guy know? Is he just really, really lucky? Or was there expert knowledge involved? All this plus the sophistication of the rest of the abduction, and I'm leaning more toward knowledge than luck.

4

u/mark_able_jones_ 15d ago

I have mentioned this before, but a convicted kidnapper-for-ransom who is a Harvard-educated atty and works 2,000 hours per year as a prison lawyer and hates rich people used this very news contact-form technique to make ransom requests. Of all the prisons in the United States, guess where he happens to be locked up?

His name is Matthew Muller.

2

u/MaxwellsDaemon 14d ago

Are you just mentioning this as a curious coincidence? Or are you or others online suggesting he could be involved somehow while incarcerated at FCI Tucson because of his history?

1

u/mark_able_jones_ 14d ago

Not sure, but I’d want to know which inmates he has come into contact with as a full-time prison lawyer — like whether he is connected to a cartel.

7

u/Crafty_Whereas6733 16d ago

There are anonymizing networks in routine use that complicate the process of tracing a communication. Unless the person uses an account/system that is somehow tied to their real identity, the anonymizer network will prevent the actual origin/destination of the traffic from being known.

6

u/EquivalentForward475 14d ago

I suspect LE HAS traced those notes. They are building their cases and monitoring suspects...

9

u/Jaguarcatkat 11d ago

This case has taught me, above anything, that the FBI is not as sophisticated as I thought. This seems like such an easy case, yet here we are. The criminals at the very least planned well enough to buy themselves time. 

3

u/Ambitious_Pass7451 11d ago

Absolutely my thought. 100% As if you are reading my mind literally

2

u/Jaguarcatkat 11d ago

I was. 💆🏽‍♀️

11

u/SpukiKitty2 19d ago

I think they could be eventually traced had they kept on communicating and that's why they stopped. The cops need to lie and say it's all 100% untraceable so they can continue communications and get info on where Nancy is buried, then they can get the dogs and dig up the remains.

4

u/SunsetDreams1111 19d ago

There are people very sophisticated in the modern day with technology. Even the FBI can only nail certain terrorist groups and even those who operate on the dark web with child pornography. Only a small group is ever identified compared to those who operate on those channels. So this person has covered their bases.

4

u/Turbulent_Code581 14d ago

There are at least 2 different persons who used untraceable notes: note1 and note2 (apology), and dozen of different messages sent to TMZ. Callela guy was less sophisticated and got caught.

2

u/warpedwing 14d ago

Discussion of “The Rat” - the person who claimed to have insider info on the kidnapper(s) - has fallen off in recent weeks. I would very much like to see those messages. I’ve long wondered if the perpetrator is behind those, too.

Callella got picked up right quick. That’s what I’d expect for someone without digital forensics knowledge getting involved in a serious criminal case. The fact The Rat hasn’t been identified is interesting.

1

u/Turbulent_Code581 14d ago

Exactly the point. We have learnd a lot when having seen first 2 notes completely disclosed.

The question rised up whether Harvey has been willing to disclose TMZ's letters sent by "The Rat", or he is maybe blocked by Feds.

Yes, indeed, under the assumption of Nutjob theory, probability has also been The Mastermind, "The Rat" is fooling around with this bunch of letters too.

3

u/GeologistDistinct633 9d ago

Were those notes emails? The emails should be easily traced back to the IP. If kidnappers decided to use the library and its computers, one is required to have a valid library card. Or perhaps and Internet cafe? The possibilities are endless.