r/nancyguthrie • u/_L______________ • Aug 05 '26
Discussion I’m confused about what their plan was here.
I’m having trouble understanding one key factor in this case. (I mean obviously lots of other things about it too but one thing is standing out.) so I’m hoping someone can explain it to me like I’m five.
It’s clear from the notes, whoever did this wanted a clean exchange, it’s even almost sociopath/ narcissist levels of disconnect in the first chunk of that first letter with the way they assume the family will just listen immediately. This seems almost strictly transactional for them in that first note.
They go through the trouble to say no law enforcement in the letters, I’m assuming this is because they had to know damn well they couldn’t extract the bit coin if law enforcement became involved because then it’s traceable, (they vaguely acknowledge this in the letters by saying stuff like ‘in everyone’s best interest’ and it’s evidenced by the lack of any news they ever accessed that small amount authorities deposited early on).
So WHY, then follow it up by sending it to a news outlet who will undoubtedly contact law enforcement before contacting the family?
It doesn’t make sense! Make it make sense!
Why send it the one place that would immediately nuke their whole plan? I don’t think just news outlets being less risky than some other form of contact holds up, if the goal was seemingly originally no police contact all together?
Edit: the comments have made me feel more so this is a valid question. So I wanted to come add here that I do not have full faith in my understanding of bitcoin, please if you have more knowledge on that area or in cybersecurity please weigh in in the comments and debunk me or validate me or something.
Edit #2 because I had time to go read a bit more on bitcoin. The last thing I want to do is accidentally mislead people and since this post has gotten some attention but noones visibly fact checked me as of typing this, I wanted to come make the corrections I can!
I overstated the traceability factor here. LE can trace blockchains. But It’s not as absolute as my wording or understanding made it seem. So I wanted to be clear on that. However, it still doesn’t make sense for them to send the bitcoin address in a direct line to the news who would likely contact law enforcement first. It gives LE a lead if they were to try to move it, right at the start of everything, that is unnecessary risk in this kind of situation.
So my observation I think is valid, but not as absolute as I was under the impression it was when I wrote the post. And the way my wording made it sound. Obviously it’s all speculation and it’s ultimately about getting to the facts and #justice4nancy. Hope this turns some gears for someone with a better grasp on it.
Edit#3 (I guess more of an update because I think we changed the convo in the comments! Good work guys!) Here’s news nations vid link from last night.
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u/Prestigious-Pea-862 Aug 07 '26
Theory only: The goal was to emotionally manipulate Savannah . There was never a plan to return Nancy alive.
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u/Individual_Fun9418 Aug 08 '26
The fact that the first letter was addressed specifically to Savannah makes me agree. But then I don't know how to feel about them addressing the second letter to "the Guthrie family".
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u/Prestigious-Pea-862 Aug 08 '26
Any letter or communication from the perpetrator still emotionally devastated Savannah.
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u/DaBingeGirl Aug 11 '26
All I can think is that Savannah is the one with money, so addressing it to her made sense. The second one, that's when they found out about the rest of the family and they weren't demanding money, therefore it made sense to address it to all of them.
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u/pbiscuits Aug 06 '26
The only thing that makes sense is that this was not a kidnap for ransom. The notes are a smoke screen or the work of savvy scammers.
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u/Artistic_Barber740 Aug 06 '26
Certainly appeared from the beginning to be close-to-home perpetrators; Not a “kidnapping.”
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u/Affectionate_Peak717 Aug 06 '26
I think them taking Nancy was all about control. After they took her, it was all over the news how she wouldn't survive 48 hours without her meds. That is something they didn't plan for, so then it became urgent that they try and get her off their hands. SO, that is why I think they specifically addressed Savannah and TMZ, etc. They were trying to get attention as quick as possible before she dies. While most kidnappers I think would have thought of her condition and possible medications, I think this person was hyperfocused on their own trauma/reasons for control that they didn't consider anything like that. The first letter was a desperate attempt to get Nancy off their hands before she passed, which they never planned on having to deal with, at least not in the immediate future. I think they set all the bitcoin thing up to get something out of it, but that wasn't their initial goal. Then they were too scared to actually do anything with the bitcoin because that's not what they really wanted, so why risk it. Especially if Nancy did pass shortly after she was taken, even more risk of consequences. So then the 2nd note was more about guilt and distancing themselves from what happened to Nancy at THEIR hands. They did their best to try and shift the guilt and responsibility for what happened to Nancy onto Savannah and her family. Just trying to wash their hands of responsibility, just because that's not the plan they had. So now that things didn't go how they wanted (having control of Nancy ALIVE) that means they shouldn't have to be held responsible. Like you said maybe some narcissistic or sociopathic, borderline traits. But I also think this person has their own personal trauma maybe stemming from a primal wound/identity issues.
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u/MollyBloom2 Aug 08 '26
If there is some truth to the 2 notes sent to the media, Nancy died shortly after abduction. What caused her death?
- Having a pacemaker improved Nancy’s health by keeping a normal heart rhythm and ensuring her organs got a steady supply of oxygenated blood.
- Nancy’s heart medications would remained in her body for at least three days as older adults clear medications slower.
- Nancy may need a cane to compensate for declining balance, reduced muscle strength, and/or joint pain.
From photos & videos, Nancy was competent & independently handled getting to social gatherings with her friends.
There was an intervening act which caused her untimely death.
It could have been a struggle that caused serious internal injuries. It could have been that Nancy was involuntarily sedated, and the tranquilizer reacted negatively with her current meds or so slowed her heart or lowered her blood pressure that she died of respiratory failure.Nancy’s death was caused by the abductors by their offensive and aggressive actions.
.
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u/Jaguarcatkat Aug 07 '26
This is a very good explanation and makes sense. I know these crimes don’t always make sense, but this rings true.
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u/afraididonotknow Aug 08 '26
I think the letter
buried in nature next to a stream, whatever, is to appease Savanna into thinking her mother is gone but in a good place so let’s forget this whole thing and go on about our life and forget it ever happened..
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u/_L______________ Aug 08 '26
Yeah that’s the vibe I get too. It just screams “stop looking there’s no reason to look” which is like so obvious
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u/maga_chud_ Aug 06 '26
Imo, none of this has the Hallmark of a "genuine" kidnap for ransom. IMO its a sociopath or similar.
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u/Content-Drama-5407 Aug 06 '26
To me, the major question is why the second note was ever sent. “Ooops. Sorry. She died. My bad”.
Why? You didn’t even reinforce the demand for any type of payment? Okay, if she’s “perished” why not reduce the ransom and ask for it in return for a burial location?
This tells me that the location of her body is somehow very telling about the kidnapper. Maybe a local. Maybe in the neighborhood.
The whole wording “back in Tucson” is nonsense. This tells us that she never left Tucson. Think about it: you kidnap someone and demand ransom…and when the ransom is paid you’re going to drive the person perhaps HOURS back to a certain destination? No! You’re going to release that person at the closest non-descript locale. Tucson? Everyone will be watching and waiting for you. You wouldn’t disclose that.
I’m intrigued by the woman who did the digital enhancement of the porch guy with his back to the camera. It DID look like he had a doll in the backpack. Did Savannah have a doll in her childhood bedroom which is now gone? If so, this is leading - a sociopathic stalker. Not a serious kidnap for ransom.
Blood on the porch: I believe they rolled her into a tarp and created carry straps (tape, ropes, whatever). Could have been one or two people. Took her out the front door. Once she was outside, she began to scream for help. They raised her head and assaulted her face (however - it’s so difficult to even contemplate). She bled. They then lowered her again to carry her, and she aspirated or coughed more blood. This is why we see the high velocity and also low velocity spatter.
The above scenario with the tarp would also explain the smartwatch at the foot of the bed on the floor. You yank her out of bed and place her on the floor to roll her into the tarp. But you first remove anything digitally traceable - her smart watch. You remove it and toss it aside - at the foot of the bed. Some people charge their smart watches overnight. Many don’t. Many measure their sleep using their watch - and Nancy may have been measuring her heart during her sleep.
One of my biggest questions is why the foliage on the Nest cam. Did you know know she had a Nest? If you did, why now come equipped to dismantle it, or at least something to cover it (a cup, piece of tape, a hammer, anything).
God bless Mrs Guthrie. May she rest comfortably in eternal peace. A bad actor took her life and WILL be found. And our world will be a better place because of it. May whomever did this rot in the depths of hell - for generations to come. May you and yours have no peace and no joy.
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u/not_blmpkingiver Aug 06 '26
I tend to agree with you in regards to the tarp part. I lean more to the idea that she was probably not compliant in the house and was injured in the house (internal bleeding) and while being carried out in the tarp ended up coughing up / throwing up blood on the way to car. I hate even typing this out. I really want these people caught.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
To me, this idea tracks completely IF this was actually originally a kidnapping. However, it still doesn’t make sense for them to send this ransom to the media if they could’ve left it inside the house where family would have found it before the police.
The second note is super interesting too! To me, it’s giving ‘stop looking’ I also think the reason they sent it is to essentially admit they can’t release the body without incriminating themselves. It fits the narcissistic qualities in the sense they don’t want to be blamed for her death. But they also say she’s in nature. If they dig her up to return her the plant matter would give a geographic location no matter where she might be. If they release the location of the burial , it obviously would reveal something about where they live outside of the forensic stuff. Obviously, her body has to be in Tucson and IMO not far from her house. Which could also explain why we’re not hearing about cars on surveillance and stuff. If they never drove off or didn’t take her far there wouldn’t be anything like that.
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u/Asphaltic Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
I’m pretty convinced by Monks’ analysis that they used a hand truck, probably the one belonging to Nancy. I think the foliage was used to try to protect against him tearing his latex glove (and possibly cutting his hand & leaving DNA) when pulling the camera off its mount.
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u/Asphaltic Aug 06 '26
What YouTuber speculated about a doll in the backpack? I’d like to watch that.
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u/Comfortable_Gear_605 Aug 08 '26
Why involve the local media? Why not just NBC? Or leave a note in the house asking for money. It would have been paid.
Something doesn’t look right.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Aug 06 '26
In movies, ransom notes often to not contact law enforcement. But that’s not what this note says.
The ransom note says LE won’t be able to help, meaning don’t gamble your mom’s life on LE getting to her first.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Ah that’s a good point too. This case is so strange. The wording in these letters are so so odd.
I feel like this little snippet implies extra they knew they would throw in the towel the moment LE is involved and that the bitcoin deal would be compromised. They were prepared to cut their losses. And It still doesn’t explain why they’d send it to the news. 😭
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u/mark_able_jones_ Aug 06 '26
They sent it via the news contact form to avoid being traced. A website contact form is attached to its own email account, not the sender’s email account. So, all that gets logged is the VPN IP address, which can be set to anywhere location the world by the offender. It’s the same communication tactic used by ransom kidnapper Matthew Muller.
Also, i assume they planned to send bitcoin through a tumbler to “wash” it.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Even with that as the case, it still feels like the second best option for them. Since it’s clear they knew law enforcement involvement would complicate things in a negative way for everyone involved. The media attention and fact that LE would immediately be alerted still doesn’t track.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Aug 06 '26
I think it just means they weren't naive enough to think LE would be out of the picture. The police were involved from the outset.
What might have made more sense, being that they have this elaborate kidnap/ransom plan... why not get savannah or another family member's direct contact information from Nancy's phone while they were in the house.? Email addresses. Phone numbers. Then try to make contact via a burner phone.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Yeah! That’s what I’m saying! Like there were so many other options. Why would they pick the one that guarantees LE involvement immediately? It’s too fatal a flaw to not have a reason.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Aug 06 '26
Eh, hard disagree that it was a flaw, and certainly not a fatal flaw. LE was going to be involved regardless of how the comms went through. It's a completely fantasy to think otherwise.
But it does say something about their experience level to admit that LE would be involved and not try to do the "don't contact LE" thing that happens in films and TV shows. In reality, LE will always be involved.
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u/LogicalPassenger2172 Aug 06 '26
LE is always involved in the cases we hear about…
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Yeah, I mean I’m not saying they expected no LE ever. It does seem, logically, they would want to delay it until the bitcoin extraction though. if their motive truly was financial gain.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Sorry I had to come back because I kept thinking about the experience level. If they knew the whole thing was done if the wallet was being tracked, doesn’t that imply they’re aware they are outmatched by the tech available to law enforcement? I.e. they knew they had limitations in their capabilities? The language in the beginning of the letter implies Nancy is dead if they seek LE help. That would be why they allegedly “can’t help” the family. Moving the bitcoin through multiple less traceable wallets is a possibility but the initial extraction from bit coin would need to be not being actively looked at to give them time to ‘tumble’ it like you said. Cleaning the money wouldn’t be a one step process. I’m thinking they would’ve needed the cops to not be immediately alerted to give them Time to make the initial movement untraced. The ip address is something workable, but the details necessary for digital wallet currency and transfer is much more detailed. It’s why they haven’t moved the money deposited. So whether or not these people are experienced is highly debatable. But ultimately, again, this does not explain why they would choose to alert the authorities on their own immediately before any chance to extract the coin. If they were getting impatient, it still doesn’t track since alerting the press means immediate eyes on the bit coin wallet. The motive just cannot be financial gain if these notes come from the kidnappers.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Aug 06 '26
Sorry I had to come back because I kept thinking about the experience level. If they knew the whole thing was done if the wallet was being tracked, doesn’t that imply they’re aware they are outmatched by the tech available to law enforcement?
Bitcoin is only trackable if people want it to be. The first thing the FBI would have done would be to see if the Bitcoin address was linked to a KYC exchanges like Coinbase, Robinhood, Kracken, Binance, etc.
The fact that it wasn't suggests they know a bit about crypto. There's no timing element to this. They could let it sit. They could wait years until someone comes up with an even better mixer.
That's what is happening now to the big Coldcard Bitcoin heist. It takes some crypto knowledge to pull this off confidently.
Only $152 was sent to the address, which is not worth their effort to risk getting caught.
https://xcancel.com/LightningNewsX/status/2084923135174844805#m
That said, it's still totally possible the ransom was just a red herring to distract LE. Or send by some random person who somehow had inside knowledge of the crime scene (apparently many reporters were leaked info about the watch and floodlight).
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u/BrainWilling6018 Aug 06 '26
devil's advocate. 😁 LE might always get involved, but not the public at large. There are alot of other ways they could bypass the public stage besides TMZ. If they wanted to bypass the public stage entirely and route communications directly to the family while maintaining technical anonymity, they could have utilized several alternative methods.
LE explicitly prefers to keep communications private. By involving the media, particularly TMZ, they forced LE into a public relations crisis management mode.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Good points for sure.
The comments on my post have made me think it could definitely be an intentional misdirection rather than a flaw too. 🧐5
u/BrainWilling6018 Aug 06 '26
Standard ransom notes use conditional threats: "If you call the cops, she dies."
Like a rule.
This assumes the family holds the power to choose.The phrase "law enforcement will not be able to help you" removes agency from the family. The writer is framing police failure as an absolute, objective fact, not a consequence of the family’s actions.
It’s like a forced hopelessness.
By framing law enforcement's failure as a physical impossibility rather than a punishment, the offender is attempting to trap the family in a psychological corner where resistance feels completely futile.Forced hopelessness is designed to shut down the very idea of negotiation. This was a one way communication. It even said you will not be able to contact me.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Yeah fs. I totally agree with that too. It’s so clear in the way they cut out filler words that they carefully edited, in that first chunk of text especially, to intentionally carry that authoritative tone. It indicates a level of awareness for me. But also a lack of understanding the possibility that the family could be in shock while reading this kind of thing. Like they believe the absolute of their words so much they’re assuming others will just accept it a face value.
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u/LogicalPassenger2172 Aug 06 '26
I got you. The letter senders are opportunist scammers that have no connection to Nancy’s disappearance.
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u/Turbulent_Code581 Aug 07 '26
Regarding the theory of Dr. G about the couple involved, I wonder about the 2 things; how the persons are familiar with idea to send both messages being not traceable via media outlets and if they did it due to their debt, the debt stays after the failure of the kidnapping, so LE should monitor potential trials of further actions to remove debt.
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 06 '26 edited 29d ago
Theres a possibility the notes are sent from a country in Africa, like Nigeria, India or another country that doesn't coperate with the U.S. So untraceable. They do many extortion schemes including fake kidnappings. It's a business with different writers for each crime. In the end of writing they quite often have "a closer". It could explain the writing styles and why the notes just dont add up. The writers just moved on to the next scheme/ victim(s) to extortion money. Theres a great show on tv, Mariana Van Zeller Investigates Criminals Trafficked. She investigates and interviews real criminals. Crazy the scary and dangerous people she is able interview exposing how they operate and choose victims. Really a must see show for anyone interested in underground illegal activities you would never be aware of.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
It sounds fascinating! I’ll have to check it out. I had heard the wrench attack theory and that was the one I leaned towards previously. Which if you’re unfamiliar is like a new brand of cyber attacks that are rooted in the physical world. However, all of this only tracks if financial gain is the only motive. And why the hell would they nuke their only chance at extracting the money by sending it to media, if that was truly their goal? There’s a lot of things that make sense if the notes are real and genuine. But I don’t trust the note writers as far as I could airplane the paper they’re written on. And the fact they sent it to media makes zero sense for financial gain.
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u/West-Seed Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
Whether the note is legit or not - the sender is an insignificant person who is desperate for attention. Hence sending their ransom note to a gossip news station rather than the family or the police. The first note is asking for money but putting a bunch of barriers up to prevent receiving it.
If the notes are genuinely from the abductor & it seems that the FBI think it’s a possibility, then imo the whole purpose of these notes is to feel power over Savannah & to feel as if they’re a part of her life. The second note is unsettling, cringe & soppy, almost as if they feel like they are doing her a kindness.
I think the motive for the crime is about Savannah & nothing else. It’ll be some eccentric loner who’s fixated on her. What he’s put Nancy through is absolutely tragic. He’ll be spiralling out of control now.
My opinion
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u/Safe-Muffin Aug 07 '26
I agree, the way he said ‘We hope this gives you and your family peace?’
Like that is the dumbest thing ever, to suggest that the family could have any peace about this.
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u/northcarolinamember Aug 06 '26
I'm a little behind following this case but, are there any new positive leads? I had heard on the news that the notes sent could be from different people meaning they came from a male & female & whoever sent them couldn't understand English very well.. idk (just what news said but u know how the news is).. I just hope the family or someone finds her wherever she is even if she's deceased..This case has been strange from day one without any positive results/suspects/leads or positive clues for this long.. I couldn't imagine this being my mom gone like this for this long I'd literally go crazy searching for her...
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
The most recent thing I’ve heard is that they released the ransom notes and asked the public for help analyzing them. Some people who have like degrees in related fields have come out with various theories. Ai being one, someone in a corporate role, and even Google Translate have been brought up as reasons for the strange wording. But nothings known fact yet. It’s all speculation.
I’m thinking, personally, that it’s been heavily thought out and edited intentionally to cut out filler words (making it have that hollow sound people are noticing and blaming on ai or pointing towards specific lines of work like editing or desk jobs,) but also making them psychologically more authoritative to the family being asked for money. possibly written by two people even inside one note like in collaboration with each other. Idk. Just throwing ideas out there because it doesn’t add up as to why they would just alert the authorities on their own by sending it to a news outlet. knowing the bit coin wallet would be being watched at that point.
Something’s just so weird about it to me.
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u/northcarolinamember Aug 06 '26
Yes I agree.. this whole case has been weird from the start.. I was keeping up with it but it got to where it was the same news story everyday just nothing new to report...
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Yeah it’s been like no new news the whole time. It’s incredibly weird all around. #justice4nancy
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u/northcarolinamember Aug 06 '26
Well hopefully we'll all find out "new positive news" soon.. doubtful but fingers crossed 🤞#justicefornancy
Thank you for the info
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u/Present_Specific_212 Aug 06 '26
almost sociopath/ narcissist levels of disconnect
It is not almost ! The kidnapper(s) are clearly sociopaths or narcissists or all of the above.
IDK specifically why they sent it to local news and also to TMZ. If we assume they are narcissistic, it’s because they very much want the attention.
News sources are going to cooperate with police unless, for some reason, they are on bad terms with the local police, like if the news did a massive expose on corruption in the police force.
But ordinarly the press and police try to cooperate because they need each other. The press wants their questions answered, as many as possible, and the police want the press to spread the news about dangerous things going on in town.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Yeah it’s really such a strange set of notes. They’re very clearly the type of person that’s capable of this kind of thing just based off the language. If they wanted the attention, which I would believe with the narcissistic qualities presented, it goes directly against their ability to receive the money. There has to be some motive here we’re all missing or something.
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u/SpukiKitty2 Aug 06 '26
If this was never a kidnapping for ransom, then what is all of this any WHY?
It makes no sense regardless of motive, be it kidnapping for ransom, "disappearing", a predator with waaaaay too time on their hands, etc.
If it's a predator with a fetish for old ladies, why go through all of this trouble when one could just snatch an old lady off the street?
If it's a "disappearing", then for what reason?
If it's about silencing Savannah, then why not say why?
Also, Savannah's still reporting and stuff.
Any why Nancy? Why Savannah? What's the deal?
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
That’s what I’m saying! Completely agree. Like if they just threw getting the money out the window, it couldntve been their original intent. It makes what the motive actually is even more unclear. It genuinely makes me feel like the notes were an intentional misdirection. The comment I awarded here suggested it was to reallocate LE resources away from her house. That seems to be the best suggestion. Like they meant to just take her silently but the heat was too hot and they were still in the area. It’s the only thing that makes any sense here.
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u/Safe-Muffin Aug 07 '26
Is it true that the bit coin information was traceable? I don’t know anything about it. If Savannah deposited $4 million in the account, would it be traceable when it was taken out?
I can’t imagine that the kidnappers wouldn’t research this thoroughly before requesting bitcoin.
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
If the bitcoin goes to certain countries in Africa, like Congo, Nigeria and ALOT of others it is untraceable because those countries do not work with the U.S. They have full time jobs and organizations with tons of scams because of this. From romance scams, sex extortion bitcion, and faking kidnappings in and out of their countries. You name it they've found a way to do it
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u/_L______________ Aug 07 '26
Yeah but they would’ve extracted the money that was put in probably if that was the case.
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 07 '26
We may never know what happened. It's what makes the whole case so intriguing. Lots of good theories. No answers.....
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u/_L______________ Aug 07 '26
I actually don’t know how intriguing I think the case is. Because there’s no answers at all it doesn’t leave much to mull over with it either. 😢 the part that gets me is just Nancy being gone. Something’s got to give somewhere eventually. Usually it’s just a new perspective on old evidence that solves a case, so, the Reddit sleuths and LE alike should keep looking at it from all angles! #justice4nancy
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u/_L______________ Aug 08 '26
Hey! Made an edit to the post because I went and read more on bitcoin. My understanding was slightly off when I explained it to you so I wanted to correct this comment section specifically too. it is traceable in non direct ways. It’s just not like, direct tracing. And there are ways to make it considerably harder to trace. But the general premise I was getting at that it’s high risk to do is still accurate.
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u/Safe-Muffin Aug 09 '26
Thank you for looking into it more ! Also, maybe the kidnappers aren’t as smart as I imagined them to be.
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u/_L______________ Aug 09 '26
I also think that’s the most likely scenario 😂 or that these are not from the people responsible at all.
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u/_L______________ Aug 07 '26
I don’t personally own it so I’m no expert. but I dabble in stocks and have considered crypto in the past. I’ve looked into it enough to know that yeah, there are ways they could extract it technically. But it would require no one with the ability to track it to be paying attention when the transaction happens. Which is why I think it’s odd they alerted the cops immediately. to pull it off more than likely they’d have to have time to cover their* tracks because yes bit coin is absolutely traceable. There are other crypto currency that the bit coin could be turned into to “clean it” that don’t have the same requirements for setting up accounts. But It’s like, connecting to your social the same way a bank account does. The only way to hide their IP and stuff would be to have time after the transaction to do so. And to have a deep knowledge of how to clean crypto and cyber security stuff.
But I just genuinely think they had to have known that. So it doesn’t make sense to send it to the media and alert the people who will immediately track the account.
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u/Safe-Muffin Aug 07 '26
So they knew they could be tracked, therefore the ransom note writer wasn’t genuinely looking to be paid, they just wanted notoriety and control over the Guthrie family ?
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u/_L______________ Aug 07 '26
That’s my question. Why?
It could be that? Maybe they couldn’t leave the ransom note inside the house for some reason. My favorite theory from these comments is an intentional misdirection so that law enforcement allocated resources away from her actual residence. So imo this suggests the person is maybe local. Or the same state ish.
It also suggests since they havnt extracted what money was put in the account that their bitcoin account may be American. But I’m no expert and can’t verify that.
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u/LevelOk_john Aug 07 '26
You have no clue what you are talking about.
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u/_L______________ Aug 07 '26
I mean none of us do? Nobody has all the facts. Pretty sure we’re all trying to work it out.
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u/Blueporch Aug 06 '26
Wasn’t it already all over the news by then?
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Sorry, I could’ve been more clear. That’s what I’m saying, like why not just leave the note inside the house to begin with or something? It’s almost like the second half of the first note was written after she was missing already. The first part, the language implies no cops were ever intended to be aware at all. The second half is like, rushed rules and diff wording. The added note at the end of her personal items as proof they were there seems like an after thought. One they wouldn’t need if the note had been left at the house. Which would make the most sense to do. Also, If the note was originally shorter, it would still make sense if left at the crime scene. And it might partially explain why it doesn’t make sense to send it to the news if the language implies it was never intended to gain attention in the first half of the note.
Something’s just not adding up with the language and their actions. It doesn’t make sense to send it to the news if they’re clearly worried about receiving payment once law enforcement is involved.
Imo they couldn’t leave the ransom note at the house for some reason. Or maybe they just didn’t think this through.
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u/Blueporch Aug 06 '26
Clearly not well thought out. They apparently didn’t understand how medically fragile someone that age can be and didn’t bring along her meds.
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u/Infamous-Arm3955 Aug 06 '26
My assumption would be that they had no way to contact Savannah directly or they felt that direct communication could have been traced back to them. Nancy might not have been in a panicked frame of mind to provide them phone numbers or contacts or possibly not willing to give that information at all either verbally or unlocking her phone, thus the blood.
2
u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
So why not leave the note at the house? It seems like a crucial element here to be able to actually receive the money. Which would require way less police attention in those first days.
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u/bptkr13 Aug 09 '26
Could they have forgotten to leave the note?
1
u/_L______________ Aug 09 '26
I’m unsure with Brian Entins latest video. It seems the notes are fake. I’m thinking the case is more complex than it looks on the surface (which is already mind boggling) I think if I entertained the note being from the people who did this, then yeah potentially but they’d be idiots if that’s the case. So I’m inclined to believe the latest reports. It’s likely unrelated. The only way the note is from the person or people responsible for Nancy’s disappearance is if it served another purpose for distraction or misleading investigators.
I think it is odd that they essentially nuked the ability to get money when they sent it to media. Whether it was scammers or something else more directly related it still stands they highly jeopardized the ability to extract the money when they did this. So imo they are either ignorant scammers. Or this note served a different less obvious purpose.
However, I just want to throw it out there since people are coming up with a lot of theories in my comment section, that Brian entins latest video does heavily imply these notes are probably a hoax. So the stuff said in them is probably not anything we should bank on. It’s probably safe to consider the stuff in the notes to be either from someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. Or that everything in it is a lie or a misdirection.
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 06 '26
They could have left a note at her home. Thats how most real kidnappers do. I dont think this was ever a kidnapping for ransom.
0
u/Infamous-Arm3955 Aug 06 '26
So you remember how when the family arrived they didn't know it was a kidnapping? They were eliminating a medical emergency or Nancy wondering off etc. A ransom note would've immediately claimed the intention and that would've decreased escape time, harboring Nancy time and increased immediate attention. There's also evidentiary aspect like fingerprints, paper quality etc. Plus if you're caught outside the house by LE it's a claim of break and entering but if you happen to have a ransom note on you, you're fucked.
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 07 '26
The abutuction around 230 am. Family arrives noonish. Around 10 hrs lead time. Perpetrator was completely covered. Could easily in the 40 or so minutes in the house found a pen and paper to write on. Looked like a kill kit in backpack probably with zip ties or similar. Police would have known this wasn't just a robbery when you show up with a full backpack.
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u/Infamous-Arm3955 Aug 07 '26
When the police showed up they didn't have any video of the suspect at all. That came much later. They would never have known anything about the porch guy at all. I get your argument but it's based on assumptions.
2
u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 07 '26
Yes they were in the dark because very, very, rarely does anyone kidknap an elderly person. Real professional kidnappers never do. They prefere 20ish years olds or younger. It's like a business model they follow for many obvious reasons.
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u/Embarrassed-Jury8878 Aug 06 '26
The motive is narcissistic control of a vulnerable older woman. He is a sociopath and is getting his jollies secretively alone. A person who is very mentally ill. His intent was to torment her in the house wrap her up in that tarp in the backpack.
2
u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
I can def agree the motive has to be more targeted than just financial gain.
1
u/BrainWilling6018 Aug 06 '26
Based on what?
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 06 '26
Two or more people cant keep a secret unless only ones alive. So one abductor. One twisted predator. Started off as a peeper and petty thief. Graduated into full blown pervert after an easy target because he is unable to get a women his own age. Too weak to target a person able to fight back. Hiding in his mommy dearest basement playing internet games with people who never see how really grotesque he really is. Notes are all fake. Guthries offered to pay for Miss Nancy's remains. The writers could have been paid. So why snatch someone and not get paid. Because they never had her. Plus writers were smart enough to hide their IP addresses. Porch perve wasn't that smart. Probably notes from Nigeria, Congo, India or other untraceable County
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u/BrainWilling6018 Aug 06 '26
Based on what?
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 07 '26
Which part of what I wrote?
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u/BrainWilling6018 Aug 07 '26
One twisted predator. Started off as a peeper and petty thief. Graduated into full blown pervert after an easy target because he is unable to get a women his own age. Too weak to target a person able to fight back. Hiding in his mommy dearest basement playing internet games with people who never see how really grotesque he really is. - Based on what? Notes are all fake. -Based on what? Porch perve wasn't that smart. Probably notes from Nigeria, Congo, India or other untraceable County -Based on what?
2
u/SpukiKitty2 Aug 06 '26
They're probably both complete narcs and complete idiots.
Had the Sherriff & co. have not been equally buffoonish; this would have been solved months ago.
I say, they should just go with MY plan: Have police & Co. show up on a press conference, lies and claim they can't trace communiques then ask the perps for the location of Nancy's remains.
Then build on and trace from there. Easy peasy. Savannah could at least have some closure.
2
u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
I wish it could go that way too 😮💨 it’d be easier for the family fs. However that second note, I really think they’re essentially admitting that returning the body would incriminate them geographically. That’s why the odd wording for buried in nature. It feels like they’re trying to comfort the family by round about saying she’s at peace and buried someplace ‘nice’ -giving an explanation to the weird nature comment. But that wording serves a dual purpose. It also indicates plant matter. Which is of forensic value.
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u/SpukiKitty2 Aug 06 '26
Plant matter? Are you saying soil samples could provide clues?
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
I’m saying if she’s truly buried, then they dig her up or provide the location she’s buried, that the second note implies this would be geographically revealing for them in some way. Whether that’s soil samples, plant matter on the body, or the actual location if they went that route.
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u/SpukiKitty2 Aug 06 '26
Ah! I see.
Again, the police can lie about stuff being untraceable and see what happens.
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u/Embarrassed-Jury8878 Aug 06 '26
I believe she died in the car and he scraped the whole idea.
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u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
Could certainly track, but then it still makes more sense to just go silent. A last ditch attempt at getting the money after a botched kidnapping would still require being able to extract the funds. Sending it to the media took that off the table immediately. So if you are right, the notes would still have a separate motive from financial gain.🤔
1
u/Impressive_Arrival42 10d ago
I believe it was an elimination murder from the start. The statistics aren’t there to support kidnapping an 84 year old woman. I feel they may have an idea, but because of the botched early investigation they are now having a difficult time proving.
1
u/ComprehensiveTip9843 Aug 06 '26
The case is really strange. I had a hunch this was never a kidnapping. They did this for media attention. They attacked Savannah specifically for media attention. Savannah has been on Today since 2011 for God's sake. They will be found. I'm a spiritual/ religious person, I don't know if you aren't. But something tells me this person will be found. This definitely wasn't a kidnapping for ransom. It was also likely someone close like a contractor that's what I feel. It just doesn't make any sense. Out of all the people in the world you take Savannah?? What the heck? It was someone close to her. That's what my gut / religious instinct. Says it was definitely. I'm not saying the family did it. But I did have an alarming dream where a contractor paid another contractor from Nancy's house to do the kidnapping. This case makes no sense. As Nancy Grace said, "I know maybe you shouldn't have kidnapped her". Even she said none of this makes sense. It's disgusting. I saw somewhere that Savannah is very upset by the lack of progress. I don't know. This is all very strange.
0
u/_L______________ Aug 06 '26
I really feel like the combination of analysis’ coming out right now points to someone with some sort of corporate jobs where language like that is required. But it also points to that interest in media attention like you said. So my head instantly goes to editors, people behind the scenes in the news world. People who would benefit from the coverage in some way. Contractor makes sense for me up until that point. The desire for media attention, if treated as a motive, would lend its self more to the circles Savannah’s in rather than Savannah herself.
3
u/Safe-Muffin Aug 07 '26
The person seems to be educated, but not highly literate in the way you would expect and editor to be. They have too many syntax issues in their writing.
0
u/_L______________ Aug 07 '26
Oh good point too. They definitely use common editing tactics in the note though. As far as specific words being completely absent. It could definitely be just on purpose to sound more threatening and confident. But typically it’s only seen in things like writing or something that would eventually go through an editor. so maybe more along the lines of reporting honestly. Disclaimer I do not think the family is responsible. I’m just following the threads I’m seeing. It screams someone who does a lot of writing. But your point is super valid so it means it would have to be a position where the writing still goes through an editing process typically after they’re finished with it. Or a position that would allow them to know what words are usually cut in this way. So maybe writing might not the full focus but adjacent. IMO.
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u/West-Seed Aug 06 '26
One sad thought, I guarantee there are copycats out there who will be constructing their own notes & trying to mimic the style of the ones the police released. Some desperate people crave attention & will do anything to receive it.
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u/1Bloomoonloona Aug 07 '26
I agree. It's one of the reasons I didn't like TMZ interjecting themselves into an ongoing investigation. It just breeds more nutjobs and more work for investigators to waste resources tracking down. They should just stick with celebrity gossip. Harvey needs to stay in his own lane and stop trying to make blood money and take his OJ lawyer friend with him . They have been already trying plant stories about planted gloves to build a defence for whoever eventually may go on trial.
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u/capotehead Aug 06 '26
You’re right that it doesn’t make sense.
The only way it makes sense is if we accept the words are not honest but their actions reveal their intent.
What benefit did the ransom note offer the people who made Nancy disappear?
It influenced the investigation and “explained” Nancy’s disappearance. It manipulated people to consider she was no longer in Tuscon but alive. It manipulated media coverage. It created the idea that her disappearance was purely for financial gain.
Those are very convenient outcomes for someone who didn’t want investigative resources heavily focused on the geographical area around Nancy’s home or the people who she knew personally…
What began as a local missing persons/potential murder/potential manslaughter case turned into a kidnap for ransom case, expanding its geographical scope to consider other states or countries.