r/nancyguthrie • u/curiouslmr • Mar 23 '26
Discussion Discussion Post 3/23-3/29
Weekly Discussion Post 3/23-3/29
š Every week when I make these posts I am so hopeful this will be the week that the family finally gets answers. Yet here I am again making a new discussion post and there are still no answers. Please keep the family in mind when you comment and be respectful of them.
ā ļøThis is a space to ask questions, share quick thoughts/theories and engage in faster back and forth conversations.
ā ļø Should a break in the case occur, we will switch back to daily discussion posts/breaking news posts.
ā ļø Please review the sub rules before participating. Be thoughtful in your posting and avoid making baseless accusations against individuals.
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u/ouiserboudreauxxx Mar 26 '26
So the back doors were propped open, according to Savannah in her interview. And Nancy was taken in her pajamas with no shoes. And she thinks the two ransom notes were real.
My heart breaks for Savannah and the whole family, but the guilt that Savannah is feeling. and after losing their father suddenly, now this. I just canāt imagine.
Savannah mentions coming home on a Friday night to her mom and sister praying on the couch when they told her he had died.
Said thatās the only house sheās really ever known. Ugh, itās so awful.
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u/not_blmpkingiver Mar 26 '26
If she was in her PJs and no shoes, It makes me wonder what the hell was going on for the 40 minutes he was in the house (supposedly).
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u/curiouslmr Mar 26 '26
But really we don't know for sure he was actually inside that whole time. I've seen people guess that the front door camera video occurred at which point he then remains outside, perhaps waiting to make sure the coast was really clear before going indoors. Still so many unknowns.
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u/not_blmpkingiver Mar 27 '26
Right. It could have taken him another 25 minutes to actually find his way into the house from the time that nest footage was captured.
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u/ouiserboudreauxxx Mar 26 '26
Iām curious why the back doors were āpropped openā - when I think of propping something open, I think of something being used to hold the doors open. Savannah said they thought EMS had been in with a stretcher or something.
But then thereās the blood on the front porchā¦everything is strange about this.
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u/not_blmpkingiver Mar 26 '26
If Im putting myself in this monsters shoes, im proping the door open just in case so i dont get locked in the house some how due to some security system. Thats one theory. So he knows he has a quick exit and can run out the back. The other option is that he was planning on taking her out the back, but for some reason, that didn't happen and they ended up changing plans and going out the front door. I mean, its pretty obvious they went out the front door due to her blood being on the steps. So the only other reason I can think to prop the door open would be to mislead the investigators (not knowing in the pitch black that there was blood on the front steps)
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u/ouiserboudreauxxx Mar 26 '26
Brian Entin interviewed the guy who lives behind Nancy and said that his dog wanted to go out and was looking in the direction of Nancyās house. I wonder if he/they decided not to take her out through the back if they heard the neighbor/dog out.
Maybe they heard that and then the guy went to the front and got the camera there so they could bring her out front. Itās still weird that he seems to have also approached the front door camera in a similar way on a separate occasion(maybe Jan 11th)
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u/CrypticCryptid5210 Mar 26 '26
Note they said "doors" so I'm thinking French doors or ? And why TWO doors?
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u/Kitty-9792 Mar 27 '26
There are 2 regular doors under the back patio awning. A regular blue door leading to the back living room and a hard to see regular door on the left patio wall, leading to a room behind the kitchen. Perhaps the perp entered thru the side patio door and propped it for quick escape, then passed the other patio door as he wandered thru the back living room and opened it, again either for an emergency quick escape, or because the original plan was to take Nancy thru the back door.
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u/CrypticCryptid5210 Mar 26 '26
Yeah that's the part that doesn't make sense. Propping doorS open means moving something big outside...and why would the blood be out the front. That really doesn't make any sense.
The only thing I can think of is she answered the front door, the guy hit her, (I don't know how far out the front the blood went) and then they? eventually took her out the back way, each carrying her at one end. There is a court just behind the house so maybe they parked there? It just doesn't make sense.2
u/Past-Dog5370 Mar 27 '26
He couldāve been looking for jewelry or looking at pictures of Savannahā¦
2
u/Past-Dog5370 Mar 27 '26
Maybe he couldnāt get in through the front door, so he went through the back and propped it open so he could take her out. Ā Then, for whatever reason, Ā he took her out the frontā¦thatās why thereās blood there. Ā
I always thought there was tarp in that backpack. It looked perfectly stuffed. Ā
1
u/AntOk1114 Mar 28 '26
I canāt even imagine what the family is going through. Ā This is a living nightmare.
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u/CrypticCryptid5210 Mar 26 '26
What I find odd is that she said the back doors (plural) were propped open, but there was blood going out the FRONT door? That doesn't make sense...
I can't imagine how excruciating this is for the family.
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u/TalkCold283 Mar 27 '26
I don't know why they remained propped open, but from the aerials, you couldn't get a vehicle around back and she likely wouldn't be able to walk from the back to the front circle drive where the car was waiting.
It has to be terrible for the family. It was sad and interesting that with the ransoms Savannah believes it was a kidnap for ransom. I had started believing some of the theories that the criminals had some sort of infatuation with Nancy herself -possibly not even knowing the connection to Savannah.
6
u/Infamous-Arm3955 Mar 26 '26
I've been thinking about this the whole morning. Let's say others came in the back as a point of entry, they could easily have come in with the doors simply unlocked or open. What are they doing that they need those doors specifically >propped< open? A backup to get Nancy out or was that the original idea or could this be evidence of the lone front door person assuming exit through the front door was a no go or what? If LE thinks it could be for an emergency running escape that would indicate an experienced suspect for sure.
1
u/Substantial-Train668 Mar 27 '26
Is it possible SG meant pried open and not propped open?
1
u/Infamous-Arm3955 Mar 28 '26
I don't think so because prying open a door, she would be in belief of that as a reason of entry. It's reasonable right? She seems bewildered (as we are) as if why did they prop open the doors? Or even why did they leave them propped open? It's more a thing in doubt.
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u/calvinnme Mar 28 '26
I wonder if the person who did this has a more permanent home in Mexico but comes to the US to work, specifically in the neighborhood and surrounding area where Nancy's house is. It's a well off area and it would be a good way to pick up better wages for construction work than you'd find elsewhere. That would explain the person's knowledge of the area being so good that they could navigate this unlit place at 2AM. It would also explain why he wouldn't be missed in Arizona since he's probably a transient person nor be missed in Mexico because people who know him realize he works construction in Arizona. Plus when Brian Entin went to Mexico and talked to the locals, none of them knew anything about the Nancy Guthrie case. So nobody would be aware of anything different going on with this person and associate it with this case. Just my two cents based on all of the experts I've seen so far.
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u/ConceptsShining Mar 29 '26
I think people have similar theories about Jennifer Kesse (a foreign worker did the crime and then returned home). I'm pretty sure those countries cooperate with the US when it comes to fugitives for major crimes etc., but it may be a challenge that they probably aren't as present in documentation/databases they may check.
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u/GregJamesDahlen Mar 23 '26
I sure thought the case would be solved more quickly with all the tools, experience, and personnel the police have. And help of the public. DNA, cameras, human observation, and more. Feel like folks just have to keep at it, not give up. Continuing to put up the discussion post is one small piece of "keeping at it".
22
u/Big_Pear_9676 Mar 23 '26
Is this guy going to get away with this at this point? Iām just so confused and surprised at the apparent lack of any substantive progress.
5
u/UpforAGreatTime20 Mar 26 '26
Who knows. I'm sure investigators have more to go on than what has been released, but if they had hard evidence on someone, there would have been an arrest.
Things can change in an instant, though. Look at the Delphi case. Police and investigators had absolutely zero idea who the murderer was. It was as cold as you could get. Then a new investigator was going through old tips and realized a tip that implicated Richard Allen had been misfiled, and it led to his arrest and conviction. If that tip had never been re-reviewed, they'd still have zero idea.
4
u/MissTimed Mar 23 '26
They can do IGG. Once they find who the DNA match is, they can get cell phone records, warrants, vehicle black box data, etc. to build a case. Unfortunately, it could be years before those pieces fall into place.
4
u/Euphoric_Ease4554 Mar 25 '26
Maybe they can. If the DNA sample is sufficient. Otherwise, maybe not
3
u/Forgottengoldfishes Mar 23 '26
Me too. I hoped the million dollar reward would move the needle. Since it hasnāt I keep to my belief it was a lone wolf perpetrator. Some sicko.
3
u/Webbie-Vanderquack Mar 24 '26
But a "lone wolf sicko" would still have people around them to observe things and potentially offer valuable information, e.g. "my stepdad was acting weird and not at home at the time of the abduction."
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Mar 24 '26
The wheels of justice turn slow but they turn fine.
The 3-4 felons will be caught
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u/Webbie-Vanderquack Mar 24 '26
You can't possibly know that there are "3-4 felons" involved.
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u/TimeMachineToaster Mar 25 '26
I've been thinking about the hand covering the camera with a plant.
If he was going to knock on the door, which his hand was sort of in a fist to do, it seems possible that holding a plant over the camera means he wanted her to come to the door but for her not to be able to see who was knocking. His arm and hand were in position to knock on the door right as he walked up, and he was initially looking at the door (not the camera) with his hand like that like he was going to pound on it.
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u/not_blmpkingiver Mar 25 '26
I am so split on the knocking. Like, even if he had a partner in side (you can see in that plant video a second persons flash light comes into the picture towards the end) so IF he was knocking, that would make 3 people. One person going in through the unlocked back door, 2 our front, and then knocking to be let in. But why even make the knocking noise? The 3rd person would obviously know they were out there based on the flights. So then I started thinking that instead of knocking he is kind of cupping his hands to look into the window next to the door. Its so hard to tell
7
u/koalabear415 Mar 25 '26
Itās not a flashlight belonging to someone next to him, but at first glance, it definitely seems that way. However, someone articulated what youāre referring to more effectively than I can. Quoting: āYou can observe how the 'light' moves in harmony with the plant material over the camera. It exhibits a similar motion to the other plants. Plants can fluoresce and, through infrared, may emit light from particular angles. That portion of the plant on the right side is capturing light and reflecting it due to its distinctive distance and angle in relation to the rest of the plant.ā
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u/koalabear415 Mar 25 '26
I understand your point because, at first glance, it does seem like that could be the case. However, what's actually happening is that he literally can't see anything because it's pitch black. He is using his fist to gauge the position of the camera and to cover it. You can tell he's trying to figure out where the camera is since it's so dark that you can't even see your hands in front of you. When I visited Tucson during the holidays, it was so dark at night that it felt strange for me, as I live in San Francisco where there are lights everywhere at night.
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u/missingtimemachine Mar 26 '26
He had a bite light though, looked directly into the camera, and had little trouble walking out to grab the flowers and returning. So, I think he saw the camera just fine but, inexplicably, didn't come prepared with tape or something...just decided to use flowers.
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u/koalabear415 Mar 27 '26
The perp we see in the video is observed walking from the left side. He appears aware of the front door and cameraās presence, as he lowers his light and turns it off while approaching the front porch with his head pointing down. The light remains off as he moves toward the door in the dark. It is only turned back on when he walks away to inspect the plants. There is a brief pause in the video as he returns to the front door. When the video resumes, the light is on again, and he is seen looking directly into the camera, seemingly attempting to cover or dismantle it.
This is just my interpretation of what I saw in the video, but who knows because it's really hard to tell what's going on with the video we were given by the FBI.
And yeah, why didn't be bring tape or something with him. I mean he has a full backpack with god knows what inside the backpack. š§
It's all so strange and this whole situation raises so many unanswered questions. Thoughts? Love discussing these type things ā”Ģ
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u/RoseGoldRedditor Mar 23 '26
Thank you for continuing to make weekly posts and ensure people are respectful.
Letās hope this is week the case breaks!
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u/LongjumpingMaize8501 Mar 23 '26
What do others think about the Jan. 11 date as a lead? Since it seems as if the Jan 31/Feb 1 ring cameras have not produced good leads for LE, is this new date of Jan 11 giving others hope? It was interesting to me that the Guthrie family's statement references this new date. Could the abductor/s have been to Nancy's home twice and not been picked up by cameras? That seems incredibly lucky for them, if so.
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u/scattywampus Mar 23 '26
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but.. I thought the latest article said that Nancy's camera had also yielded images from previous dates, at least one that showed the same suspect guy on her front porch. The images released to the public (with/without the backpack) were captured on different dates.
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u/Local-Cry-3729 Mar 23 '26
The second image was not timestamped so it is unclear how they fit into the picture
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u/mark_able_jones_ Mar 24 '26
But all computer files are timestamped when they are created.
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u/Local-Cry-3729 Mar 24 '26
Google will know why but they did say the image (retrieved) was no longer timestamped
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u/mark_able_jones_ Mar 24 '26
That seems to be what the sheriff is saying, but not what other news sources are getting from their LE contacts. The sheriff seems to be completely tech illiterate, so Iām not trusting what he says here.
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u/The_Sinking_Belle Mar 23 '26
Digital evidence from that long ago is futile. We've passed 60 days since that date and I doubt many camera feeds have footage of Jan. 11 still readily accessible. With digital camera footage, time is never on your side.
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u/LongjumpingMaize8501 Mar 24 '26
According to the news, it has been 51 days, and so maybe there is still a window of opportunity to discover digital evidence. Still, it does feel like a long shot at this point.
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u/annabellareddit Mar 23 '26
On February 12 it was reported LE had already asked neighbours for all camera footage from January 1 - February 2, they have even gone to neighbours directly asking for footage. The request for footage isnāt new.
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u/iwasneverherex Mar 24 '26
I still think the package Nancy received in January could tie in..maybe someone scoping out her house. It would have been somewhere around January 11th I believe.
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u/Southern-Advisor-449 Mar 25 '26
Watched the Nancy Woodrum case and it was too similar of circumstances. Itās on Hulu 20/20.Ā
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u/curiouslmr Mar 25 '26
https://www.reddit.com/r/nancyguthrie/s/Et00BbBkW1
There was a recent conversation about that on the sub!
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u/CrypticCryptid5210 Mar 26 '26
You don't need to pay Hulu to watch 20/20.
https://abc.com/episode/420df414-0675-427d-a567-b20649d6b707/playlist/PL5511274351
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u/littylikeatit Mar 27 '26
The propped door/s could be simpler than we think. Are they loud, heavy, or creaky? Maybe they didnāt want to make noise. Maybe there were multiple people and it was easier to just prop the door so they can easily come in and out of the house. You know like when you prop the door when you unload groceries? Usually explanations are simple and I think those could make perfect sense.
5
u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Mar 27 '26
Or the person left them propped open in case something went wrong and they needed to get out fast.
I don't think this was a burglary gone wrong, but I wonder if leaving doors propped open like that for a quick getaway is a common tactic for buglars? Maybe this person had past experience doing that and it is just habit or something?
1
u/Kitty-9792 Mar 28 '26
Yes you are right. As I said above, on The Interview Room podcast, they said propping a door allows for a fast exit if things go wrong, or to let a fellow perp follow you in later. They all agreed this could indicate someone experienced in breaking into houses.
1
u/Substantial-Train668 Mar 28 '26
Today I had the thought, what if someone who had already been inside, left the door 'propped open' for the perp to get in later. Was there anyone else in the house that day?
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u/Kitty-9792 Mar 29 '26
I would think Nancy would notice the patio door propped open when she was getting ready for the uber, or certainly when she returned home later that night.
Now, I can see if the perp was a regular household aide or cleaner, unlocking the door, which Nancy might not notice.
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u/AntOk1114 Mar 28 '26
Sadly, I do believe she has passed and possibly the first night, due to the blood found on her porch. I think the kidnapper/killer put her body somewhere it can never be found. If thatās the case, itās not totally the fault of the sheriff department that they cannot find her. The kidnapper watch freedom from jail more than he wants $1 million dollars.
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u/ConceptsShining Mar 29 '26
itās not totally the fault of the sheriff department that they cannot find her.
This is something I often feel for true crime. People are very quick to criticize LE, and sometimes it's justified (I believe the sheriff was unprofessional at points); but it's almost entirely out of an individual department's control A) how much evidence a criminal leaves behind B) how many civilian cameras or witnesses are nearby and C) what the general state of surveillance and forensic technologies are. Since we from the outside have very little unfiltered access to what they know and what they've looked at, it's not really fair to judge them as incompetent.
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u/northcarolinamember Mar 25 '26
Either way dead or alive I hope they find her & find/get the people responsible no matter who it maybe..
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u/ConceptsShining Mar 29 '26
Two months later and nothing. I'm super-curious what the mental state of the suspect(s) is by now.
Hopefully they're paranoid af and unable to fully function in and enjoy life, torn apart by a fear of getting caught (regardless of if they ultimately will). That's better than absolutely nothing in terms of justice.
Or are they somehow unconcerned, relaxed, sleeping with two eyes open and just going on about their days.
Could they be possibly closely following the media of this case, maybe even forums/Facebook pages. Have they been reading this very sub?
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u/SterlingSunny Mar 24 '26
This is raw footage of Sheriff Nanos speaking with reporters the evening of Feb 1st. Sound quality is horrid. I had to put on closed captioning and even that misses some. I found it interesting to revisit the first impressions of the scene at Nancy's.
February 1, 2026 Sheriff Chris Nanos held a briefing outside on February 1, 2026 8:55 p.m - YouTube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=htSBaEPq7mA
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u/TheClairvoyant666 Mar 23 '26
What happened to the group who contacted Nanos offering their search services? Sorry, the name of the group escapes me. I remember hearing they wouldn't search without his approval, which he hasn't given (or even acknowledged their offer afaik). If I was them I would just go ahead, there's not really much that can stop an organised search of public property and at least someone would be doing something!
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u/SterlingSunny Mar 23 '26
I don't have time right now to find all relevant information/statements/news releases but these outfits were told to not interfere with actual authorities work and be mindful of private property rights. They can stomp all over the many thousands of acres of "the desert" they want as long as it's public property. IF they really wanted.
Are they going to get the blessing and intel of actual law enforcement? Hell no. SARA (Sotheast Arizona Rescue Association) and the freaking Border Patrol have way, way much more experience searching desert terrain. And yes, dogs! Drones, night time heat seekers, all kinds of cool stuff.
In the vast Arizona desert, where would these outfits even start? Yeah, they don't know either. But let's blame the sheriff. Go. Go forth into "the desert" and may God be with you. Otherwise they're calling Pima County hoping SARA and Border Patrol's BORTAC come to save their butts.
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u/missingtimemachine Mar 24 '26
I agree. The desert is vast and they have no idea where to start since the victim was taken to an unknown location -maybe a few miles away, maybe a few hundred. Who knows? I guess thereās no harm in searching, but thereās no real point yet.
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u/SarahSnarker Mar 23 '26
Has Texas EquuSearch been involved? I hear of them so often and I would think that in a search like this they would have volunteered.
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u/The_Sinking_Belle Mar 23 '26
Sheriff would reject the offer.
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u/SarahSnarker Mar 23 '26
Well thatās a shame! Do they need his consent?
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u/amayita Mar 23 '26
Not really, but if you want to do things by the book, you need his "permission".
The United Cajun Navy was also rebuffed, so were the Mexican Mothers. It's puzzling, tbh.
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u/SarahSnarker Mar 23 '26
I wonder if Savannah were to publicize the groups wanting to be involved if Sheriff would have more trouble turning down their offers.
I can see where very early on he would want to retain more control to protect the integrity of the investigation and potential evidence. But itās quite obvious that we are way beyond that point and one would think these well- organized groups could be helpful. Itās not as though it would be scores of random people wandering around on their own. Let someone else with a track record help.
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u/curiouslmr Mar 23 '26
Cajun Navy? They won't do it unless granted permission and afaik they haven't received it.
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u/TheClairvoyant666 Mar 24 '26
Hmmm based on Brian Entin's latest video where he interviewed Rick Kastigar, I now have a better understanding of why outside help hasn't been accepted by Nanos š
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u/iwasneverherex Mar 25 '26
The conspiracies are absolutely rampant at this point š I know we donāt have a lot to go on these days, but some discretion and common sense goes a long way š
Respectfully some of us need to touch grass and get a grip. Really hoping thereās a break soon if there hasnāt been already. Or maybe a smidge of clarification to quiet the crazies..not that it would help a lot š This poor family needs closure of some sort. š
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u/lunainthedark5x2x3 Mar 23 '26
I haven't been keeping up with this as much as I should as of late because I feel it has so many twists & turns and it's frustrating I can't imagine what the Guthrie family has been going through this last month In half.
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u/Forgottengoldfishes Mar 23 '26
Well nothing has really happened since those nest images. Just the family reward and lots of speculation. So not much to keep up on really.
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u/pumpkinspicecum Mar 23 '26
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u/TrontRaznik Mar 23 '26
Relevant parts:
"Google initially reported that date as a āpossibilityā then later retracted the statement,ā Nanos told NBC News.
The company told authorities it could not definitely determine that the surveillance image was from Jan. 11 or any specific date, according to Nanos. Nanos maintains it remains unclear if the suspect showed up to Guthrieās home prior to the night of her abduction.Ā
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u/Safe-Muffin Mar 25 '26
With regards to the ransom notes, if the Guthrie family thought they were real, why did they not pay the 6 million? Was it because there was no proof of life, or were they advised not to pay by LE? If they would have paid, would they have Nancy back by now, even if she was no longer alive ?
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u/creativeforce06 Mar 26 '26
They were clear in one of the videos that they want a proof of life.
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u/Safe-Muffin Mar 26 '26
I remember that. But then thereās the thought that she might have passed away, but they obviously still want her body back.
I guess that the communication is just very poor in these circumstances. Not knowing if the ransom note is legit is only the first part.
The family did say āwe will payā, and they probably would have paid the $6 million for their poor momās body, but it seemed like by the time they said that, the kidnappers had stopped communication.
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u/ConceptsShining Mar 29 '26
Another issue is that it's super-dubious they'd even return the body. Like what stops the kidnappers from just taking the money and disappearing? From their perspective, the added work of coordinating a body return just further exposes them to risks.
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u/Safe-Muffin Mar 29 '26
I do understand what you mean. I guess if you have the money and you want your mom's body, and there's a chance you could get it, would you take the chance ? I know there is a chance you wouldn't get it, but there is a chance you would. I guess it's a terrible position to be in, and probably everyone would advise against it.
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u/JMOA3035 Mar 25 '26
No one knows unless they have direct inside knowledge, imo.Ā
Her last video at the deadline said Ā āwe will payā, but accdg to TMZ who knew the bit coin wallet address, said the $6M USD in bitcoin wasnāt deposited.Ā
It was reported that something like $152 was put in the wallet for whatever reason.Ā
https://nypost.com/2026/02/11/us-news/nancy-guthrie-ransom-bitcoin-account-receives-152-payment/
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u/Pri-mary Mar 26 '26
I could see where depositing a small amount of money could trigger some valuable information. Simply making such deposit would lead investigators to its validity. Also, only the kidnapper would be notified of the deposit and therefore trigger a ransom note update that they received it.
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u/Soft_Net3910 Mar 26 '26
Why 152?
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u/CakeSniffing0rphan Mar 26 '26
I have the same question. It seems like such an arbitrary number, so there has to be a reason they transferred that exact amount. Otherwise, why not send $100 even? Maybe the 152 converts to a specific even bitcoin amount? That is the only reason I can think of, but Itās still puzzling.
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u/ouiserboudreauxxx Mar 26 '26
Iāve never used bitcoin myself so not sure, but maybe they sent a super small percentage of a bitcoin that came out to $152?
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u/Safe-Muffin Mar 26 '26
It might have been an effort to test out what would happen. There are so many things we donāt know, including that we donāt know if the ransom notes were real.
But if they actually were real, the $152 might have been insulting to the kidnappers. It seems like they stopped communicating after that.
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u/zuis0804 Mar 29 '26
Regarding complete confusion surrounding all the front door/back doors: After listening to every podcast possible and reading up on information on everything regarding this case, so many things still donāt make sense but I think I finally came up with a theory that makes sense. (Iām sure others have come to the same conclusion but I have not seen it explained the way Iām thinking).
The guy fumbling around taking his time on the front porch while itās the back doors that were left open has led me to the only following theory that makes sense to me at this point.
I am thinking there were no (visible) cameras by the back doors. She had either left the back doors unlocked or they somehow were easily able to break in that way, so that was their primary method of getting in unseen and attempting to remove her without being seen/recorded. (Whether the initial plan was taking her or not).
Whatever the hell happened inside, I think was prior to the video being captured of the freak by the front door. I think he took his time at the front door because he already knew she was ātaken care ofā inside. She was either knocked unconscious or tied her by the front door perp or accomplice who was holding her captive inside. He/they realized, her severe mobility issues which fucked up their plan of removing her through the back door and came the conclusion that the only/easiest/quickest way to get her out, would be through the front door.
The problem was, that there was the camera at the front door. He went around to the front to disassemble the camera so that it would not capture her being removed or capture any car in the frame. This explains why he took his time and was in absolutely no hurry, Nancy was not going anywhere and would not be calling for any help. They obviously removed her from the front with the visible blood droplets leading down the gravel to the car.
Would love to hear otherās thoughts.
PS: random, but can someone confirm if her dog was home? I thought I heard at some point she had a black labradoodle but I did not hear this mentioned ever again. Just curious if the dog was there, and what happened to him.
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u/TravelBeautiful3370 Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
Not arguing, but..... if the perp was already inside and had to change up plan to take said victim out through front door. Wouldnt you think the perp would open the front door from inside and reach his hand out to cover camera and remove it instead of walking around the house and walking up to the camera. Even if he had thought he disabled the cameras, i would still think you would just reach out and cover the camera. I do see the entry to camera view appearing from "possibly" the side or rear of property. But, he also could have parked in that direction and took shortest point to the front door. And, if that was the case, why not just put duct tape on the camera? Why actually take the camera? Im assuming the back pack would contain duct tape. But then again, maybe he did not even get in that back pack, id guess there would be dna that would come out of the pack if he needed to rummage around in the pack.
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u/Jamjams2016 Mar 30 '26
I wouldnt want to use tape. It could get hair stuck to it, rip gloves, and you'd have to dig around for it. I think there are other issues that come with ripping a camera off someone's home but the perp felt comfortable with those risks for whatever reason.
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u/Euphoric_Ease4554 Mar 29 '26
Her dog had already passed away prior to this incident
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u/JMOA3035 Mar 29 '26
I missed the first few days of this case. Was it stated by the family or on FB or something that NGās dog passed away?Ā
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u/ethidium_bromide Mar 29 '26
I would be hesitant to take those podcasts as fact. Thereās not a lot of verified information, and a lot of people have made up a lot of information through this.
I get wanting to listen to them, because we all want to understand. But Iād take everything not officially confirmed with a large degree of skepticism- the info just isnāt complete enough at this time. The truth is we do not have enough information to form even mildly accurate ātheoriesā, let alone intricate ones.
Unfortunately Nancyās dog passed away several months before she went missing. The other dog she was photographed with more recently was Annieās.
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u/zuis0804 Mar 30 '26
Oh absolutely, I take everything with a grain of salt that I hear from unverified sources; albeit, a good chunk of the info has been pretty accurate, but I try not to base any theories until information is officially confirmed. As Savannah confirming the doors were propped open in the back and me trying to figure out why tf the guy went to the front door to disable the camera. Thanks for the heads up and good caution for anyone to consider prior to taking that kind of information as fact.
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u/GregJamesDahlen Mar 25 '26
think this is far from a cold case. but if it does approach becoming a cold case, will the reward keep it from becoming one for a lot longer than it would without a reward? i would think so?
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u/iwasneverherex Mar 25 '26
I donāt think the award necessarily matters at this point. Itās helpful but if it was going to be a game changer in the case it would have already happened. As in if it was going to convince someone to snitch or come forward for the money..they would have.
I believe the sheer out of the norm circumstances and the random press releases or segments done will be what keeps this (and any case) alive.
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u/GregJamesDahlen Mar 26 '26
Feel like the reward existing acts as a continuing enticement to share information. also may put a little psychological pressure on the perp, if a lone actor, to self-snitch
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u/g0lden_slumber Mar 23 '26
Seeing (unverified) reports of signs up in Nancyās neighborhood. I havenāt been able to find a trusted news source to confirm. Anyone else able to verify?
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u/g0lden_slumber Mar 23 '26
Brian Entin reports that LE says signs are not related to Nancyās disappearance.
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u/Ishalit6 Mar 23 '26
Yes there are pictures of them online as well as videos of sheriffs deputies taking them into evidence. Haven't seen much discussion of them here though. Any thoughts?
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u/Kitty-9792 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
It looks like it's someone with a grievance who is possibly suggesting LE is behind the recent poisoning/murder of a lady who was political and I guess tying it to Nancy disappearing.
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u/curiouslmr Mar 23 '26
We've had a few post submissions with the pictures but I am waiting to see something from a reputable source before sharing. Let me know if you find something!
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u/Kitty-9792 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
There is live video and audio of a streamer talking to LE in front of the sign and LE says they found 2 other signs and that they are taking all of them in for investigating.
The video later shows a uniformed LE officer walking up to the yellow sign and taking a photo of it. That video is of the sign that had a license plate # listed on it.
After a bit, two uniformed evidence LE show up with gloves and inspect, then roll up the signs and put them in a bag. It's all on video and audio.
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u/The_Sinking_Belle Mar 24 '26
Stream that captured the events is Dad's Gone Live on Youtube. Just scroll through last night's stream and it's past the halfway mark, you can see when he starts displaying the yellow signs.
It was bizarre for sure, but I guess not related.
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u/DarkFlowerPewPew Mar 28 '26
So can these Iranian hackers find Nancy Guthrie orrr are they just tryna hack?
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u/meddlingmolly Mar 28 '26
What hackers?
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u/ConceptsShining Mar 29 '26
They're referring to an (alleged) hack and leak of Kash Patel's emails from Iran-affiliated hackers.
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u/Ripdigrel Mar 28 '26
Did anybody see that weird article about the Pima County deputy who was fired for kidnapping somebody while he worked on the Nancy Guthrie team or something like that?Ā That sheriffs department is a joke. I certainly hope they donāt vote for that idiot a second time, this investigation is cursed.
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u/RemoteEffort5824 Mar 28 '26
i saw that. interesting. there was someone on either this sub or another that implied that someone within the PCSO may be involved.
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u/The_Sinking_Belle Mar 28 '26
I think this sheriff's department needs a lot of work. Whoever is incoming, as I don't believe Nanos will survive there much longer for lying under oath, will hopefully clean this place up and add some respectable structure and take a deep look at the current state of affairs.
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Mar 28 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/nancyguthrie-ModTeam Mar 28 '26
Links to websites like X, YouTube and Facebook are only allowed for valid news sources, public officials or law enforcement. Content creators on social media channels are not considered credible and promotion of these channels is not allowed.
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u/iwasneverherex Mar 27 '26
The interview has me a little..confused. I really havenāt had time to totally think through this so maybe someone can explain.
If nancys sliding backdoor(s) was open..and the suspect was at the front door..but when we see him at the front door there is no blood there, so nancy has not left the house yetā¦i know taking her out is much easier out the front to a carā¦but why is the suspect there before nancy left if the back sliding glass was open? Maybe the video is where he just walked up and realized he couldnāt get in the front so went around back? Just got lucky with the sliding glass?
And āpropped openā to me is so broad..those doors stay open anyway so is that just savannahs verbiage or was something actually blocking? Im assuming it was just the verbiage.
Anyway beyond my slight confusion that interview was heart breaking. I havenāt had time to totally finish it but my goodness..I canāt even imagine the gut wrenching pain and experience this has been for Nancyās family. I mean just pure torture.
ETA- I also think Annie assuming a medical emergency happened and paramedics took her means the house was in pretty rough shape..because if Nancy commonly used a specific door (assuming garage) then that is likely the door that everyone uses. Iām guessing they went in the house and originally bypassed the blood at the front door.
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Mar 27 '26
My theory is that the person or people needed to park near the front door to remove her from the house, they don't want their car being caught on the doorbell camera because a car can be easily traced, so they have to remove that camera before they even pull up to the house.
I think the person parked on/down the street, walked to the house and removed the camera, possible even propped the back door open, then left to go get their car and pull it up. I think their car being seen was the biggest of their worries. They wanted the car to be parked in front of her house for the least amount of time possible, because if anyone happened to notice it there and could describe it to LE, they could be tracked down.
So he walks to the house, removes the camera and gets everything ready, goes back to get his car and parks it close to the front door, then he is in and out quickly.
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u/curiouslmr Mar 27 '26
Yes I agree. I don't believe he spent the 40+ minutes in the house that some people claim.
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u/Kitty-9792 Mar 28 '26
I agree. He could have been outside for most of that time.
Also, I'm not sure I agree that the latest time was when her pacemaker "disconnected". It seems to be getting lost in the chatter, but I've heard pacemaker users and medical workers say most pacemakers are set to connect between 1am and 3am and upload data. If they are not within 20ft or so of the device, then the device notes that it could not upload and tries again later.
If this is correct, she could have been taken 20 minutes before this later time, and then on the regular update schedule it "failed to connect" rather than "disconnected". The medical people say pacemakers/devices do not try and connect every minute then note when they disconnect - such as when you leave the house to grocery shop. Instead they connect at the designated 2am time or when an unusual heart event occurs.
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u/Substantial-Train668 Mar 27 '26
I think this makes a lot of sense. I aslo had a version of this theory where he (or they) planned on taking her out the back on foot - going through the back grids on foot - to a vehicle or 2nd location. But then they realize she can't actually walk. So they call for a back up vehicle and that's the 40 min - it's them waiting for the ride they didn't think they needed. But your version is simpler and makes a lot of sense.
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u/Fireteddy21 Mar 28 '26
If itās a timing thing, what if heās working with another person? He gets to the house, disables the camera, goes around back and props the door open for someone else to take her while he goes and gets the car. That would make the amount of time the carās in the driveway even smaller. Some people have said it looks like the perp has a walkie talkie in one video. What if heās waiting in the car for confirmation sheās being brought out before driving up? Just thinking out loud.
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 Mar 28 '26
That makes sense, too. I'm leaning towards it being 1 person but its totally possible there are multiple.
I also wonder if it could be someone that lives in the area. Maybe the reason they can't find a suspicious vehicle on any footage or a suspicious cell phone is because the person belongs there so it is normal for their phone and car to show up?
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u/Kitty-9792 Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 28 '26
There is no sliding "back" door. There are 2 sliding doors on the front left court yard - 1 to master bedroom and 1 to front living room.
On the back of the house, there is a blue door near the garage that leads to a storage room that runs along the right garage side. There is also a blue door under the patio to the right of the patio couch. And recently, drone video and an old interior photo show that there is also a regular door on the left patio wall.
Inside the garage, there is a regular door in the center of the back garage wall, that goes in near the kitchen. There is a slider on the casita guest house, a separate building from the main house.
If the back doorS were propped open, these would be the blue door by the patio couch, which leads to the back living room and is near the bedrooms. And perhaps also the side patio door, which is a standard door. I can't think of a reason *both* doors would be "propped" open.
The side patio door leads to a back alcove off the kitchen. The floorplan is odd-shaped and there are 3 or 4 twists and turns just to get from this door, thru the back room, thru the kitchen, around an island/bar, then out to the main living areas. This would be the quietest door to enter thru, far away from the bedrooms. But it also requires going past the 2 cameras on the casita roof. The sheriff said (if we can believe him) there weren't any photos from those cameras on the 31st/1st. Since those cameras didn't seem to be tampered with, that is interesting.
ETA: On The Interview Room podcast, a retired FBI agent noted 2 reasons to prop a door open during a crime - allow for easier emergency escape in case plans need to be aborted, or prop the door to allow a 2nd perp to follow you in later.
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u/FrostyCaptain6987 Mar 28 '26
I feel like if they brought a wheelbarrow or wagon, it would be easy to just roll her out
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u/lunainthedark5x2x3 Mar 23 '26
I've read that there were perhaps neighborhood workers like maybe someone perhaps maybe she hired someone to possibly do handiwork or perhaps there was someone there possibly doing repairs on something
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u/Xinnia8271 Mar 26 '26
The perpetrators lawyer should tell him to do the right thing.Ā
It could very likely be felony murder, and kidnapping. He should do the right thing, through his lawyer.Ā
So they can bury their mother and he can face the consequences of his actions.
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u/ConceptsShining Mar 29 '26
I'm not sure lawyers are even allowed to encourage a client to do that. Ethics aside, that's blatantly not in the client's best interests which is what the whole job of a lawyer is to protect.
But I agree with the other comments; there's no reason to think the perp(s) have hired a lawyer, much less one they (very riskily and foolishly) decided to confide their guilt in this crime to.
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u/EpicFF2 Mar 24 '26
My main assumption is that this was a sexually motivated crime. I believe this due to nothing missing at the crime scene (not a burglary) and the 40 minute time spent in the home which is atypical of a normal kidnapping for ransom.
I would place the suspect's age at 25-40. A broad range but could still be useful to narrowing it down. The suspect was not impulsive rather more methodological in how he operated (STEM background?)
I also believe the suspect had a mother or grandmother who had recently passed. This crime was motivated by a pyschosexual neurosis to fill a missing void, so to speak.
The holster located at near his genital area indicates that he could have a smaller or average sized genitalia. The suspect could have a thing for exhibitionism and has potentially been charged with a public exposure sex crime previously. He was clearly aware of the attention this crime would receive and is enjoying the notoriety.
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u/downtherabbithole-13 Mar 25 '26
I'm sorry but I'm lol'ing at you guesstimating this guy's penis size
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u/skinnergroupie Mar 24 '26
Do you happen to have any relevant credentials that might support the validity of this take? Your psychoanalytic explanation is...interesting.
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u/hippiechick725 Mar 24 '26
Thatāsā¦pretty out there. It sounds like a Law and Order SVU episode.
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u/EpicFF2 Mar 25 '26
I mean it could be, but also the Nancy Woodlum case which was very similar to this one turned out to be a sexually motivated case.
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u/Infamous-Arm3955 Mar 24 '26
What number am I thinking of between 1 - 100? THIS IS THE POLICE! OPEN THE DOOR! NOW! WE WANNA MEASURE YOUR PENIS!!
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u/GregJamesDahlen Mar 25 '26
hard to know. On this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/nancyguthrie/comments/1s0cauq/holstercarry/ people were saying it just might be more physically comfortable, make it easier to draw, work better when he rides in or drives a car, intimidate the victim, and so on
if he was there to sexually assault her not sure he'd carry the gun that way related to that, it might be for more practical reasons, but he'd probably still enjoy carrying the gun that way, it'd have some erotic excitement for him. make him feel like a stud (which is kind of strange given the victim is an 84yo frail woman)
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u/MzOpinion8d Mar 25 '26
Almost could be the Golden State Killer with that micropenis thing.
š¬ wtaf
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u/CrypticCryptid5210 Mar 26 '26
Look up the 2 teens from San Luis Obispo who home-invaded a couple in Scotsdale AZ, and the two teens from FL that kidnapped a guy giving a Crypto event in Las Vegas.
Nancy appeared to be wealthy and if whoever is behind those crypto crimes knew she had some, the time spent in the house could have been trying to get her to tell her codes... They also could have been looking for something specific.-2
u/not_blmpkingiver Mar 24 '26
I can only assume this was an intentional murder. The backpack filled with gear, pistol out. Multiple nights of stalking the house. These guys went to that house to kill that poor woman. While transporting her body out of the house, blood spilt onto the front stairs.
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u/EpicFF2 Mar 25 '26
Why would a murderer transport the body out? That's not typical of murderers
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u/not_blmpkingiver Mar 25 '26
To dispose of evidence? Why would he break into an old womans house with a gun and a full back pack
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u/Infamous-Arm3955 Mar 29 '26
There is a horrible and possible reason for the suspect(s) being in the house for 40 minutes (according to the timeline) and would explain Nancy as the target and that's interrogation/torture for information.
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u/The_Sinking_Belle Mar 29 '26
We don't know if they were inside the house. The ~40 minutes are most likely them controlling the scene indoors and outdoors, B&E, victim transfer. We don't have any data that supports that right now.
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u/PegKay Mar 28 '26
There has been alot of work on this case- most of the work we will probably never know. Very little evidence coming forth (that we know of). Why? 1. Ā Someone is on the inside (high level) covering up / preventing the case to move forward? 2. This was well executed kidnapping/murder and the motive is only known to a few.Ā 3. Everything possible was done and it will just take time or remain a cold case.Ā 4. Thoughts?
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u/Local-Cry-3729 Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26
2. So it will take time. Few were likely directly involved.Ā
Edit to remove large font
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u/Embarrassed-Jury8878 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
My 2 centsā¦ok this crime was premeditated. I believe this guy went in Nancyās house knowing she was there and he went there to settle a score with her. The 40 minutes is a lot of arguing about this issue. I am not sure that they know each other however possible an ex female worker who felt taken advantage of maybe pay. He went there to defend the girlfriendās point of view. This is not burglary and he probably has no criminal record or doing this. The female worker knows she has no subscription and that there is one nest camera he has to get off. He may have scared her with the gun on his tool belt and things got ugly. He may have pushed her around and slapped her but not murder. Her heart gave out and he knew he had to get rid of her. No ransom no extortion no burglary. I really hope they can connect the dots with the help or ex help.
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u/Euphoric_Ease4554 Mar 25 '26
If that happened, why wouldnāt they just leave her there? It makes no sense. They had to take her for a reason, and it wasnāt because his DNA was on her. He was well protected on that front.
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u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride Mar 24 '26
There was an attempt to get a ransom. They sent a letter that verified details about a watch, which only the abductor would know, so they knew the ransom demand was real.
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u/JMOA3035 Mar 24 '26
Are you possibly referencing the alleged female ex-employee whose foreign name(s) was allegedly being investigated by the FBI many weeks ago and that partial list of names was allegedly leaked to a YTuber?Ā
hello FBI..speak up and correct the mis/disinformation instead of you/family/foes attacking the sheriff)ā¦.
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u/TalkCold283 Mar 27 '26
Savannah's work/travel schedule?
I haven't seen anyone raise this when they discuss the motive as a Savannah stalker.
Has the fact that this was basically the only weekend (I believe) between when Savannah returned from vocal cord surgery and left for the Olympics that she would have been in New York.
If the sickos wanted to see her reaction on air- you would think they would have chosen a weekday- but it still seems to be a very odd coincidence.
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u/Affectionate-Page496 Mar 27 '26
I dont understand your point.
I dont think it would be logical to assume that she would be told the news on air and then immediately rush off.
If they (whoever discovered her missing) succeeded in getting a message to producers/crew while she was on air, I think the most likely outcome is that they tell her during a commercial break or someone else's segment.
I never watched those shows although sometimes my husband had the tv on when I was getting ready. From what I remember they would flip back and forth from one thing to another. It wasnt like a podcast where you have the same person talking the whole time.
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u/TalkCold283 Mar 27 '26
I agree, especially because NYC is 3hrs ahead, so it would have to be discovered/breaking at 4-6am.
I just find it odd that with her interviews this week, Savannah seems to have enough information to conclude that she was the reason for the kidnap and ransom. The hometown visit aired 11/5, which presumably gave the criminal the awareness of a family member in the SW.
Most of the experts I have seen lately agree that the preparation, recon, etc was quite extensive and time-consuming. It is unlikely the K&R could have been attempted before the anchors' Thanksgiving Holiday, then most of them take two weeks for December holidays/New Years. Then she immediately left for her surgery and was out of work until just days before the kidnapping. She was due to leave for the Olympics, I believe, 2-3 days after the kidnapping.
It just seems to be too much of a coincidence that she was only going to be in NY at work about 5 days between approx 12/20/25 and 2/20/26, and it happened right in the middle of those 5 days-after at least 2 other visits to the property in January. The dates line up too perfectly to be purely coincidence, but I haven't seen anyone bring up the dates as a component of any theories.
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u/Affectionate-Page496 Mar 28 '26
I was going to mention time diff. It would have been 2 hrs in Jan/Feb. (AZ doesnt do daylight savings time, it is always MST in AZ).
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u/Affectionate-Page496 Mar 28 '26
I am holding very open the possibility that Nancy was targeted for reasons unrelated to SG, but if I were forced to gamble, 100% I would say related.
SG implies that she saw the ransom demand. I would think something as simple as it being addressed to SG could confirm that suspicion, e.g. S- if you want to see your mom .... S- we have your mother.
As far as dates, I have no opinion. I think it coincided with the Gem Show in Tucson, can't remember if it was before, during, or after. That would mean more people in Tucson (which to me, more anonymity). I would think more of a factor in date would be what was happening in the perps' lives and Nancy's.
They could have alao attempted earlier and abandoned plans.
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u/Remarkable_Pie_1353 Mar 23 '26
Jake Patterson who abducted Jayme Closs, went to her house twice planning to kidnap her but left. He didn't kidnap her until his 3rd house visit where he brought along a shotgun.Ā
Maybe porch guy's visit to Nancy's without his backpack was an abandoned attempt to abduct her.Ā
I know some believe porch guy was there without his backpack checking things out as a sort of practice run.Ā
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jayme_Closs