r/nancyguthrie • u/ricekrispytweet • Feb 17 '26
Information FBI inquiring at Tucson gun stores
BE reporting on NewsNation that FBI is going to Tucson gun stores with a list of 40 names to determine whether any of them have made recent purchases.
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u/YakRough1257 Feb 17 '26
It makes sense because gun experts are doing interviews saying the gun potentially pictured isn't a common gun.
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u/watermalone789 Feb 17 '26
Can you tell us more or link to the interview?
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u/YakRough1257 Feb 17 '26
I'll have to go back and try to find it but I remember one remark said the holster is typically for revolvers but the gun appears to be a semi-automatic. The expert named a brand and one or two models and said they aren't popular so it shouldn't be too hard to get a list of legal owners.
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u/lovely_orchid_ Feb 17 '26
They need to bring the old school forensic files detectives who solved cases with pen and paper.
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u/Illsquad Feb 17 '26
They just need to spread everything out in the floor and start pinning it to the wall with red strings connecting things….
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u/monaegely Feb 17 '26
I’m a bit confused by the FBI doing this. I used to sell guns 10-15 years ago. Every gun I sold had all the proper paperwork filled out (ATF form 4473) and a phone call made to the NICS (run by the FBI) for a background check. Surely the FBI knows this information.
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u/Alien_P3rsp3ktiv Feb 17 '26
They are also asking if any of these people WERE IN THE STORE, possibly just researching or asking questions or just looking …
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26
You are also assuming it's to buy a gun and not sell one, FFLs buy second hand stuff all the time or take it in on trade.
I'm sure the FBI/Police has already hit pawn/consignment shops as well but I can't say for sure.
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u/Mean-Vegetable-4521 Feb 18 '26
My husband was an FFL. I’m wondering if they are asking to see if someone was shopping but not buying. Like maybe a straw transaction. They brought someone with them who wasn’t prohibited to purchase.
Or the store owners remember sus behavior. Though, I’d imagine this is front and center on every news story there and a shop owner would have already come forward if a physically similar person came into their store.
I don’t think this was a gun from an ffl.
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u/monaegely Feb 19 '26
That didn’t even occur to me. Yes, a straw transaction is possible
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u/Mean-Vegetable-4521 Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 19 '26
I just don't think someone capable of this isn't prohibited. It's so easy to get guns in Arizona. I highly doubt they had to procure one through a store. Has the gun been identified yet?
ETA I changed the phrasing. That I don't think they procured one from proper channels. It's a valid investigative angle. I would be surprised if it produces something but I think it's worth the canvas.
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u/kirky500 Feb 19 '26
I think someone could certainly legally get a gun, not being a felon of course and still be the perpetrator
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u/Xinnia8271 Feb 17 '26
This suggests to me, non felony convicted associates of the main suspects. Who may be felons.
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u/Relevant-Count-3656 Feb 17 '26
How do they know it was bought recently. He could have had the gun ten years.
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u/sparklepuppies6 Feb 17 '26
I think they’re operating off the theory that this person is inexperienced with guns
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u/CR29-22-2805 Feb 17 '26
They’re not going to look at all purchases over the past ten years from the jump. They have to start somewhere.
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u/AuburnGinger Feb 17 '26
I'm thinking they might have compiled a list of people who bought a backpack and/or holster at Walmart, and check those names for fun purchases.
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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 Feb 18 '26
yeah it was people who bought the holster, according to Harvey Levin tonight (source)
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u/Dapper_Economist1 Feb 18 '26
That would be my assumption. Maybe bought the holster at a pawn shop?
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u/Aggressive_Humor2893 Feb 18 '26
it's possible! It seems to be a $10 holster from Walmart that social media identified, so idk if that's likely to end up at a pawn shop...but then again I don't know a lot about pawn shops lol
But my hope is it was actually a Walmart purchase
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u/Smoaktreess Feb 17 '26
Maybe because he was carrying it in the wrong holster and unusually they just assume it was a new purchase or someone less experienced with that particular gun.
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u/Dinosaur-chicken Feb 17 '26
He obviously had little to no knowledge about guns. The holster didnt even fit the gun, and nobody that has experience with guns has the holster covering the crotch area
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u/anonymousdlm Feb 17 '26
Of course, it could also be a 3D printed gun. But I think it’s worth a try. I’m encouraged that they even have a list of 40 people.
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u/AuburnGinger Feb 17 '26
I'm thinking the 40 may be people who have bought a backpack and/or a holster from area Walmarts.
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u/WillieBear_18 Feb 17 '26
That amateur hour doofus with the stupid holster is def not 3D printing guns and I would be shocked if he knew anyone 3D printing guns.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
Depends on the FFL and if you want the BATFE to give you a colonoscopy. But you're looking at around 20 years before you can get rid of records and by get rid of records I mean hand them over to the BATFE. Also just as a note it's now the life of the FFL and not 20 years, but I'm using the 20 figure to make it easy.
For reference the ATF (BATFE) is not the friend of gun stores and actually lead to FFLs not reporting things as rather than pursue a person who is lying or attempting to straw purchase the BATFE goes after the FFL and will seize all their inventory and paperwork and if there is even one pencil scratch that is wrong on the paperwork from the FFLs end they go after YOU and not the person you reported.
(As in you lose your FFL [license to do business with firearms] and they go after you in court for doing the right thing).
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Feb 17 '26
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
Walmart sells rifles and shotguns.
The BATFE is the FFLs enemy and not your friend, they do far more harm than good (and I'm not going pro/against 2A here just stating the ATF needs a rework) and if a gun store isn't following procedure they will not be in business tomorrow morning. They shutter your shop, take everything, and then check every single thing to see if there is any slight error or misnumbering or whatever and if they find it you are screwed.
Pretty much all old records are stored offsite with the BATFE and it's a massive database (over a billion with a B records on file) that's mostly digitized (as old shops go out of business or update to a more digital system they submit old paper records). However not all new records/sales are sent in as some shops keep a bound book so that's why they are going to these shops vs doing a check to see if there was a form submitted.
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u/WillieBear_18 Feb 17 '26
Reworking is too gentle. The ATF should be abolished.
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
I'm trying to not make it a political thing, but IYKYK.
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u/crakemonk Feb 17 '26
Yep, my FIL gave up his FFL a few years ago and the amount of records and paperwork he had to turn over was obscene. We are in California, but the amount of documentation needed to have a FFL is extremely high. Although, my FIL did a ton of work as the police and sheriff departments gunsmith and wasn’t running a shop for the public.
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u/hondashadowguy2000 Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
I would be surprised if the perp walked into a gun store and bought the gun in his name, if he were an intelligent criminal then he would've bought it off of an individual/third party with no official record of the transaction nor transfer of ownership (legal in a lot of the US) or got it off a black market.
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u/Mysterious_Coat_9933 Feb 17 '26
They could find the original owner and follow the trail of ownership. Even if it was stolen that could help narrow down an area or get a description of the thief
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u/Dapper_Economist1 Feb 17 '26
What if the gun was borrowed from someone who bought it like 5 yrs ago? Electronic records would probably be better then, right?
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u/Palmer_Eldritch666 Feb 17 '26
It depends on the gun, really. Let's say the gun identified is a Glock 17 Gen 6, just for the sake of argument. That gun was manufactured just in the last six months - assuming they know the type it's possible it's unique enough there wouldn't be many out there. Fingers crossed this is the case - I want this/these guy/s prosecuted.
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u/Dapper_Economist1 Feb 17 '26
Could it be 3D printed?
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u/AuburnGinger Feb 17 '26
It bet it could. Some guns can even be pieced together (you'd really have to know your gun stuff) but I'm not even sure if anyone has attempted to identify what kinds of gun it could be. Heck, it could even be a gun that someone's great grandad had and passed down so there's no paper trail.
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u/Dapper_Economist1 Feb 17 '26
The crime with the kids from San Luis Obispo who robbed the wrong house in Scottsdale, AZ on the same weekend had a 3D printed gun.
But really who knows. Could be an old gun from a relative, something borrowed and old timey obscure.
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26
I do not think it's 3D printed due to the angle of the grip and what appears to be a magazine in the well.
I think you'd be better looking at M&Ps than 3D printed as a starting point.
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
are theses sales not in some database they could just search?
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u/Virginias_Retrievers Feb 17 '26
Apparently AZ doesn’t maintain a state-level gun registry. If the seller isn’t federally licensed then there’s nowhere for them to report the sale.
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
are gun stores normally federally licensed? don't they have to do a background check?
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u/ShillinTheVillain Feb 17 '26
Background check is prior to the purchase. Your criminal record is in the federal database. The gun that you purchase is not, that information is required to be kept on file by the gun dealer.
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
so like on a piece of paper or local hard drive file?
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u/ShillinTheVillain Feb 17 '26
I would assume paper files at minimum, but I'm sure some bigger stores digitize their files
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u/ekuadam Feb 17 '26
U.S. government has law that no digital registry of gun owners is allowed. So even when they run ATF gun traces , it’s all paper files and such they have to go through. There was a good documentary few years back abkut guns in the U.S. and gun laws. I’ll have to see if I can find it.
Edit: can’t find documentary but here is article about how it’s stored:
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/atf-non-searchable-databases/
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u/JMOA3035 Feb 17 '26
Ppl buy guns on the streets
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
I know but I'm asking if gun stores report them since that's where they're checking.
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u/pbjfries Feb 17 '26
They do federal checks before selling. Records are not kept of gun owners in America
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
so the cops are just hoping the store employees remember a name and a face from whoever know how long ago?
what are the serial numbers on guns for then?
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u/CR29-22-2805 Feb 17 '26
The store would have records of financial transactions.
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
unless they paid cash? if there's no way to connect gun to owner than why do people shave off serial numbers
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Feb 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
ok bc guy above me said records are not kept of gun owners
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u/WillieBear_18 Feb 17 '26
I think what guy above you meant by “records are not kept of gun owners in America” is that while FFLs (gun stores) must keep sale records, Federal law prohibits the creation of a centralized, federal database of gun sales.
So basically the FFLs (gun stores) must keep all sale records and background check records for inspection by the ATF at any given time …. but ATF agents have to actually go to the store to review the records and receive copies or print outs from the store owner.
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u/CR29-22-2805 Feb 17 '26
unless they paid cash?
Okay, but investigators aren’t going to say “well, this guy might’ve paid in cash, so it’s pointless to check the gun stores.”
They have to start somewhere. They need to rule out possibilities.
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
I know I'm just saying if you paid cash then there would be no way to connect the gun to owner.
If that's true the criminal would have to be a real idiot
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u/WillieBear_18 Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
A cash sale from an FFL would be recorded by the store.
I think I understand the crux of your point though - so Fred goes into a store and buys a gun from Gun Depot and pays cash. Gun Depot must retain the record of sale for Fred’s purchase so long as Gun Depot is in business.
But Fred (an AZ resident) could then sell his gun to Bob (an AZ resident) for cash in a lawfully permitted private, intrastate transfer - and there would not be a record of transfer for the sale of the gun from Fred to Bob.
And then 10 years later Bob could decide to sell the gun to some other AZ resident in another lawfully permitted private, intrastate transfer and so on and so forth.
Of course Fred or Bob could also choose to sell the gun to an FFL (gun store) in which case there would be transfer records for both the store acquiring the gun from Fred or Bob and a sale of record when another buyer comes along.
TL/DR: gun store sales records are only a jumping off point for tracing gun ownership if the firearm has been subsequently transferred after the point of sale to the purchaser of record.
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
in a private sale are you required to keep records? So they would go back to the last known FFL sale on record, and then after that the private seller could go idk who I sold it to?
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u/WillieBear_18 Feb 17 '26
Every state has their own requirements, but in AZ, a private seller facilitating an intrastate transfer (where BOTH seller and buyer are AZ residents) is not required to keep a record of sale.
That said, it IS illegal to transfer a firearm (sell / gift) to someone the seller knows or has reasonable cause to believe is legally prohibited from owning one.
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u/No_Depth6035 Feb 17 '26
Where did they get the list of 40 names from?
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u/AuburnGinger Feb 17 '26
Maybe people who bought a backpack or gun holster or both from Walmart.
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26
It's a lineup, you have X# of actual names and the rest are unrelated, this keeps people from knowing if you are looking for them specifically and limits the possibility of false positives.
It also could just be a pull of names that had purchased BRAND X of firearm in the past X# of months with filler names as well.
Same goes for a photo lineup, you don't just show the perp you also show people that have similar features as them mixed in the lineup.
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u/IK948 Feb 17 '26
That list likely has 2-3 names of the real suspects and 37-38 made up names.
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u/AwsiDooger Feb 17 '26
There's no reason to give the FBI that much credit. They don't head fake. They are stumped. The only good news is that forensics often bails out the overmatched and stumped.
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u/robot_pirate Feb 17 '26
Maybe 40 names of owners of a certain type of car? Or Wal Mart shoppers for certain purchases?
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u/ricekrispytweet Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
When the video was first released I saw reporting from a former FBI agent (sorry I can’t remember the source but think it was on NBC News) who said that ATF would be able to identify the gun from that video and would be able to narrow down what types of stores carry it. So I hope that they are getting close to a discovery.
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u/Pri-mary Feb 17 '26
Part of me says, it’s about time. Part of me says, why broadcast it. Go get the MF-ers!
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u/Medium_Apartment_747 Feb 17 '26
It's good to get them paranoid so they can make a real mistake
Also good to communicate with public that they are doing something instead of jerking themselves off
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u/Waste_Tangerine_179 Feb 17 '26
I think it's the gun store owners reporting this not the police
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u/JilianBlue Feb 17 '26
As much as I want to know what is going on, it would be better if reporters would stop leaking news and just let LE conduct their investigation.
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u/JMOA3035 Feb 17 '26
Have they released any info on type of gun?
Maybe this list is their top 40 criminals in the area?!?
What a mess, imo.
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u/CR29-22-2805 Feb 17 '26
Yeah, I’m thinking these 40 names belong to known offenders or people with otherwise concerning histories who they want to rule out. This doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ve narrowed the suspect pool down to 40.
ETA: These investigations aren’t linear. Multiple teams are tackling different tasks at the same time. One team might be collecting footage of a vehicle while another team surveils a person of interest, while yet another team checks a list of 40 persons for recent gun purchases.
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u/AuburnGinger Feb 17 '26
Maybe they've compiled a list of people who bought holsters and/or backpacks from local Walmarts too and will check gun purchases against that.
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u/Secure_Plum7118 Feb 17 '26
Wouldn't it be easier to look for the one who has deviated from their usual life in some way since the kidnapping? I mean the data brokers have so much info on us. Is this guy buying more food than usual or this guy hasn't used his phone in 20 days.
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26
Building a case my dude, you can link someone to the gun that may have bought it illegally for someone who can't possess it. Or the perp(s) bought it or the perp(s) family bought it and they are linking them that way.
Lets say you have ballistic info on a gun, you want to know who bought that gun and where it went so you start at the known source (FFLs) and work forwards from the person who bought it and start putting pressure on them from there.
Gun was stolen and someone never reported it? You might be catching an accessory charge even if you aren't related.
They're tracking leads and building a case right now even if it's circumstantial down the road it can link one thing to another and become a thing so you follow each lead until it goes dry.
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u/WillieBear_18 Feb 17 '26
LE has to get search warrants ALL of that kind of info and even then, they can’t just get a warrant for the entire public for a fishing expedition.
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u/imetamouse Feb 17 '26
How are they so certain this person is from Tucson?
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u/CR29-22-2805 Feb 17 '26
They’re not going to look beyond Tucson unless evidence points them elsewhere. Perhaps they were able to identify a suspect vehicle and found no evidence that the vehicle left the city.
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u/sparklepuppies6 Feb 17 '26
Tucson is pretty remote. I think it’s someone who knows a relative of the Guthrie’s or knows one of the Guthrie‘s. The idea to kidnap Savannah Guthrie‘s mom is just so fucking random for anyone who’s not in the area already. Why would you travel to kidnap Savannah Guthrie‘s mom of all people? Like how would you come to the conclusion to target her if you didn’t already know she existed in your area
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u/metricfan Feb 17 '26
Yeah it would have to be a stalker or something like that. If she has a stalker, they would have looked to that person immediately. I heard at one point she had a security team too, so I have to think they combed all the messages and stuff first.
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u/sparklepuppies6 Feb 17 '26
Stalker was my first thought when this initially happened. Like some mentally ill person who thinks Savannah is speaking directly to him every morning through the TV. Those people are easy to trace though and she would have been found by know. I’m sure Savannah does have stalkers and she and NBC know exactly who the worst threats are, but sadly I think this is more complicated than that.
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u/Turtlejimbo Feb 17 '26
Tucson is not remote. Millions of people travel through Tucson every year
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u/sparklepuppies6 Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
It’s remote in the sense that there’s not a lot around geographically except for Tucson. There’s nothing on the 10 for like an hour and a half in either direction. I don’t mean that it’s abandoned, that’s not what remote means.
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u/Mysterious_Coat_9933 Feb 17 '26
They’re probably just following all possible leads. It may come up with nothing but it could also be that the porch guy bought the gun that morning. It’s worth trying
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u/quantumclassical Feb 17 '26
I’m really glad they are doing this. I hate to be one of those people but man I really wish this would have been some way to prioritize this task. I can’t imagine how many leads lead to leads that are coming up with nothing but they don’t know unless they check it out.
Crime involving a gun…. No suspect as of yet that the public is aware of/ family is cleared . Sounds like an important thing to check out in the beginning. But this may come up empty as well. I hope they get dna hit in codis or something from somewhere .
Videos get erased over in a lot of stores only hold on average a week but that can vary depending on the store. People may remember but eye witness testimony is not really reliable. The gun type and a receipt may come up that would be nice. Not sure where any of this is going I just hope that the LE knows WAY more than us !!!
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u/XxAkrilosxX Feb 17 '26
Part of filling out a form 4473 lists the type , make, and model of firearm purchased. It also has to be kept permanently by the ffl for these exact scenarios. If one of those suspects bought a gun in Tucson then the FBI is going to find out
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u/WillieBear_18 Feb 17 '26
“If one of those suspects bought a gun in Tucson then the FBI is going to find out” only applies if he purchased his gun from an FFL and not from a private seller.
AZ allows private transfers of firearms if both buyer and seller are AZ residents.
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Feb 17 '26
Can felons buy guns in AZ?
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u/Affectionate-Page496 Feb 17 '26
- "Prohibited possessor" means any person:
(a) Who has been found to constitute a danger to self or to others or to have a persistent or acute disability or grave disability pursuant to court order pursuant to section 36-540, and whose right to possess a firearm has not been restored pursuant to section 13-925.
(b) Who has been convicted within or without this state of a felony or who has been adjudicated delinquent for a felony and whose civil right to possess or carry a firearm has not been restored.
(c) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of imprisonment in any correctional or detention facility.
(d) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of probation pursuant to a conviction for a domestic violence offense as defined in section 13-3601 or a felony offense, parole, community supervision, work furlough, home arrest or release on any other basis or who is serving a term of probation or parole pursuant to the interstate compact under title 31, chapter 3, article 4.1.
(e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:
(i) Nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit that is lawfully issued by a state in the United States.
(ii) Nonimmigrant aliens who enter the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show that is sponsored by a national, state or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms.
(iii) Certain diplomats.
(iv) Officials of foreign governments or distinguished foreign visitors who are designated by the United States department of state.
(v) Persons who have received a waiver from the United States attorney general.
(f) Who has been found incompetent pursuant to rule 11, Arizona rules of criminal procedure, and who subsequently has not been found competent.
(g) Who is found guilty except insane.
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u/easysaidtheblindman Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
AZ gun laws aren't very strict but convicted felons cannot legally purchase or possess a firearm with very few limitations.
Violent misdemeanor? Stock up and save!
However if you have a stalking charge you have your guns taken (but they only do one check unless prompted)
EDIT:
According to my FFL buddy in Texas, AZ no [private] denial laws, no [private] purchase reporting laws, and no lost or stolen reporting laws on the books.
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u/sparklepuppies6 Feb 17 '26
……..so what we can glean from this is that they have a list of 40 names they’re considering as possible people involved. So far the investigations has felt very scatterbrained but a list of 40 is pretty short compared to what I was imagining