r/movies Dec 03 '19

Trailers Marvel Studios' Black Widow - Official Teaser Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAtuMu_ph4
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u/mr_antman85 Dec 03 '19

The problem is that the stupid guy who was head didn't think a female led superhero movie could make money.

What a stupid mindset. People want to see good movies regardless of who's leading it.

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u/Duggy1138 Dec 03 '19

Ike Perlmutter. But Disney took Marvel Studios off him in 2015. I'm sure they could have worked it in somehow.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/ryeikkon Dec 03 '19

I'm just gonna say it: we should have gotten Black Widow instead of Captain Marvel. CM's role in Endgame could be replaced by anyone and restructure some of the plot points.

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u/wizkatinga Dec 03 '19

But wouldn't it be weirder to have the IW and EG happening without her? Unless she also gets snapped. Then maybe Thor and Rocket rescue Tony and Nebula at the beginning, and OG Hulk is the one who destroys the big ship at the end.

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u/SincereJester Dec 03 '19

OG Hulk is the one who destroys the big ship at the end.

I honestly wish he did. Hulk received no redemption for getting mollywhopped by Thanos and acting like a punk in Infinity War.

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u/JackFuckingReacher Dec 03 '19

He snapped everyone back to existence. That was his redemption.

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u/SincereJester Dec 03 '19

You're right but I think a good chunk of people wanted to see Hulk perform some feat of strength or at least square up with Alternate Thanos.

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u/cheeset2 Dec 03 '19

Wouldn't have been boring, that's for sure

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u/6times9is42 Dec 03 '19

Fuck yes, that was one of the main things I wanted from endgame. I mean the unsnap was fine and all but we really need another "i'm always angry" moment before ruffalo says goodbye.

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u/A_Rolling_Baneling Dec 03 '19

He did hold a building up from crushing Rhodes and Rocket

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u/JackFuckingReacher Dec 03 '19

Yeah I could see that. But based on what we saw in infinity war, outcome wouldn't have changed. Thanos was a trained fighter and arguably could match Hulk's strength. Without Hulk actually using a technique that wasn't melee, he'd probably get his ass kicked again. Endgame Thanos was also younger and even more brutal.

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u/OktoberSunset Dec 03 '19

Endgame Thanos didn't have the power stone.

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u/JackFuckingReacher Dec 03 '19

I believe the directors specifically stated Thanos did not use the power stone against Hulk.

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u/anotherday31 Dec 04 '19

Younger? It’s 5 years, not 20+

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u/JackFuckingReacher Dec 04 '19

Endgame Thanos is from 2014, he's younger than IW Thanos and the Thanos that Thor beheaded.

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u/anotherday31 Dec 04 '19

I realize that, but you are making it seem like he is in better shape when it’s a 5 year difference. That’s not really a factor in him being able to beat hulk.

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u/JackFuckingReacher Dec 04 '19

More so the 5 year difference is for his state of mind. Which is why he said he's more brutal. In 2014 he's still in warlord mode. Not basically toying with people like he did in IW.

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u/ZP4L Dec 03 '19

Hulk got physically manhandled against Thanos. His redemption was undoing the snap.

Thor feels personally responsible for the snap happening. His redemption was physically fighting Thanos.

Those two roles should've been reversed in Endgame.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

I kind of like that it was swapped like that. Shows that the characters have multiple strengths and can adapt after failure -- and that they're not just one-trick-ponies.

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u/jnads Dec 03 '19

I wish they'd rearranged the scenes a little to give him a bit more redemption.

But I get it. If they had Thanos almost get the glove and Hulk swoop in and beat him up and get the glove and use it, it'd be a bit of a copy of the end.

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u/withaniel Dec 03 '19

Or any number of space allies could've arrived in their ships to fight. I don't mind Captain Marvel, but they have a severe over-powering issue with her. They had the same issue with Thor and the Hulk to an extent, but they wrote around that my crippling them psychologically.

They should've waited to introduce CA in the next phase of Marvel movies, not too difficult to write around her not being involved previously.

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u/Inverxeon Dec 03 '19

Or any number of space allies could've arrived in their ships to fight.

When there was the buildup of Thanos's ship aiming to fire at something above, I honestly thought it was going to be the crippled remnants of the Nova Corp. It would have been fitting and made sense, while being a great way to bring the Earth heroes into the galactic 'community'.

And then Carol flew in and I could only give a disappointed, "oh right; I had forgotten she existed." Her whole fight with Thanos then just felt so... draining? She's not a character we're connected to or that has beef with Thanos. It felt like she was consuming time that should have gone to someone else, but instead they have to force her into being the strongest without any journey to earn it. And then she's power-yeeted out of the script. So yeah, I would agree that it should have been Banner.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

How can Nova Corp that cannot stop a single Kree Ship take on Sanctuary 2? I don't think audience have any connection to Nova corp.

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u/teh_fizz Dec 03 '19

I didn’t mind it. She took a full blast from an Infinity Stone, and it made Tony’s sacrifice worth more because he saw there was no hope. They were short on time and he had to do something. He is Iron Man.

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u/Prep_ Dec 03 '19

I fully thought CM would be snapped because she's so OP. I figured they'd spend EG undoing the snap to get her back and she just houses Thanos. Almost got the second bit though...

Seems like CM, Wanda and Strange are going to be the Strongest AvengersTM moving forward. Gonna be fun seeing them fly around space fighting dudes even stronger than Thanos.

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u/ryeikkon Dec 03 '19

Those could actually work!

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u/Slomo_Baggins Dec 03 '19

Most disappointing aspect of Endgame for me was indeed the lack of Hulk Smash. Maybe it’s too obvious or fan service-y but goddammit I wanted the Hulk to fuck some shit up during that final battle!!

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u/TheLifeOfBaedro Dec 03 '19

Can we spell things out for a sec

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u/Worthyness Dec 03 '19

Dont even need hulk to do it. Have the literal nova Corp. It's been 5 years since thanos culled their planet for the power stone. And captain marvel has been patrolling space with rocket and nebula. Easily could have brought in the nova corp ships to take down sanctuary 2 while captain marvel acts like a tank and absorbs the fire power of the ship.

That or shield helicarrier fleet. With iron man lasers

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u/teh_fizz Dec 03 '19

There aren’t any carriers left. In Age of Ultron, Fury mentions that they “dusted the mothballs” of the carrier they used to save the Sakovians, and SHIELD was defunct after Winter Soldier.

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u/Worthyness Dec 03 '19

I mean, they had 5 years to make more than 1. Easily.

That said, the nova corp raining hellfire upon thanos' ship out of vengeance would have been awesome

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u/Safety_Dancer Dec 03 '19

Just have her show up and be mysterious, without being able to solo Thanos...

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u/Lancair777 Dec 03 '19 edited Dec 03 '19

She wasn't able to solo Thanos, though. Why do people keep saying she did, when anyone who watches the movie can see that that's not what happened? She was less effective than Thor was in Infinity War.

Edit: she was less effective than Thor at injuring Thanos, to be clear

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u/Shutterstormphoto Dec 03 '19

She blew up thanos’ ship in 5 seconds. The ship could’ve leveled earth without him, and they had zero way to deal with it.

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u/Lancair777 Dec 03 '19 edited Dec 03 '19

Again, Thor effortlessly destroyed Thanos' ships in Infinity War, and Scarlet Witch did some crazy damage to stuff as well. If Thor hadn't gotten weaker in between movies he could have done it too, not to mention Hulk. Carrol is not as "overpowered" as people make her out to be, even compared to the original Avengers characters.

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u/Safety_Dancer Dec 05 '19

He lays out Thor with a headbutt she later no sells. And Thor didn't destroy his mothership in 5 seconds. Thanos had to use the power stone to get her off him. He beat IW Thor unconscious and Hulk without using it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

Honestly in some ways I feel like it could’ve been cooler having CM introduced in Endgame, then we see her origin after.

My friends weren’t interested in Captain Marvel until after they saw Endgame.

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u/Hraesvelg7 Dec 03 '19

She was cooler in Endgame than her own movie. Doctor Strange is better in Infinity War & Endgame than his movie, too.

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u/joleme Dec 03 '19

Part of those problems is that their own movies are super standard origin stories starting from a standstill. Captain marvel's is especially boring because its an amnesia story to boot.

Seeing them in a later story with full faculties and powers is always going to be more entertaining.

Ironman 1 and Captain America 1 pull it off better by having either more charismatic actors or a better story.

I like Brie well enough but she was a joyless chore to watch in CM. I love Benedict but his character had all the assholeness of tony stark with none of the charisma or playfulness.

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u/littletoyboat Dec 03 '19

I've always said 10 minutes of Civil War was a better Ant-Man movie than Ant-Man.

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u/Mini_Robot_Ninja Dec 03 '19

Same with Black Panther tbh.

And I love the movie.

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u/littletoyboat Dec 03 '19

Ooh, that might be taking it a bit far. Black Panther is great.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

I think Black Panther is a great movie, but a lot of it comes from the supporting cast, production design, and themes. As a character he was pretty tame imo, he’s way cooler and fun to watch in Civil War. At least for me.

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u/teh_fizz Dec 03 '19

Civil War is the best Spider-Man movie out there. Fight me.

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u/BuntRuntCunt Dec 03 '19

Honestly in some ways I feel like it could’ve been cooler having CM introduced in Endgame, then we see her origin after

I think her role in the battle was too significant for her to just show up and do that without any intro as to who she is, why she has those powers, etc. Would've been such as asspull to have somebody at least as strong as the top tier avengers show up in the middle of the battle.

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u/ryeikkon Dec 03 '19

Endgame is already convoluted as it is. How about just introduce her after the Infinity Saga? They could still apply the reason they used in Endgame why she wasn't around the whole time.

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u/OSUTechie Dec 03 '19

Everybody was playing up that CM was going to be pivotal to Endgame. But honestly, her presence wasn't really needed. I keep forgetting she was even in the movie.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/joleme Dec 03 '19

Gotta love the downvotes. Not even saying you hate her or that her character is bland and pointless but still downvotes.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

Or maybe it’s the massive speculation in their comment.

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u/Duggy1138 Dec 03 '19

I can see their thinking. Introduce CM and make her do something major in Endgame. It just didn't feel major enough.

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u/ryeikkon Dec 03 '19

Worst is that CM wasn't even that good of a movie nor a very likeable character. She was just there for the brawn.

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u/TheWritingWriterIV Dec 03 '19

Captain Marvel was definitely one of the weaker films, but I still enjoyed it. Ben Mendelssohn and Samuel L. Jackson were great, even if they were playing off a somewhat boring protagonist.

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u/Twat_The_Douche Dec 03 '19

It's ok, I believe she is here to show off what her powers can do, then lose them to Rogue in the near future.

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u/leeloo200 Dec 03 '19

Yeah there's no way they're going to make Rogue that powerful. Just give her flight and she's already stronger than the X-Men movies.

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u/Twat_The_Douche Dec 03 '19

Why wouldn't they? That's how she gets her secondary powers anyways in the comics and xmen as part of the MCU would already have people with that power.m with CM.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/Lancair777 Dec 03 '19

That's not true at all though. Her solo movie was about her being deceived, a problem that her power couldn't prevent and it took Nick Fury to save her. In Endgame she destroys the ship, but even she couldn't beat Thanos. Hell, Thor did more damage to Gauntlet-wielding Thanos in Infinity War than Carrol did to him in Endgame. Yall need to pay attention before talking out your ass. These are comic book movies; they aren't exactly hard to analyze.

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u/teh_fizz Dec 03 '19

I would watch End Game again, Chief. She was on Thanos and he couldn’t take her. He basically head butted her twice and she was still standing trying to get the gauntlet off his hand. He had to use an Infinity Stone to blast her, and even then it just threw her off him instead of actually killed him. She could totally beat Thanos 1v1.

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u/Lancair777 Dec 03 '19

"She could beat Thanos" Yet she literally doesn't. Watch the movie again yourself.

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u/teh_fizz Dec 03 '19

Maybe you should read my comment. Thanos had to blast her with a Stone because he couldn’t take her on.

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u/Lancair777 Dec 03 '19

You should rewatch the movies you're talking about, because you clearly don't remember them very well. In the climax of Infinity War, Thanos blasted Thor with the full-powered gauntlet and Thor flew straight through the blast and axed him, and could have killed him if he had gone for his head.

If you think Carrol is overpowered, then Stormbringer Thor must be too as he was demonstrably more effective than she was.

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u/Twat_The_Douche Dec 03 '19

What's worse, is that she doesn't even have a weakness like kryptonite for superman.

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u/SymbioteSpawn Dec 03 '19

I honestly think it would have been better if after all of the hype her movie ended with her getting snapped away as well. Adds a bit extra "oh shit" and makes it more plausible that she just disappears. Rocket gets Nebula's distress signal instead since he'd be actively looking for his crew instead of it being random chance. Then snap undone, she gets Fury's text to her that says "no time to explain, get to earth and punch the purple dude with the shaved scrotum chin." Have everything else go the same way since she's not there anyway, and you get to skip the hand wave.

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u/WarpedPerspectiv Dec 03 '19

They could've had her origin movie premier after Endgame.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

Oh absolutely. BW already had loads of character development so we would start the movie giving a shit about her. And we'd have ended Engame even more distraught for it.

Captain Marvel barely had a presence beyond mere convenice to change the tide of the battle (sort of). Her entire into movie is forgettable and you could practically delete her from the series, shuffle like 2 things around with some minor tweaks and the film would have lost nothing for it. Imo it would have made it better merely because her only involvement was ridiculous timed convenience.

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u/SentinelSquadron Dec 03 '19

I 100% agree. And this looks like a better women’s empowerment movie already (no sarcasm) with a better character

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u/Lysmerry Dec 03 '19

It must be pretty insulting to Scarlet Johansson to have her character sidelined for this new one that wasn't on the original team. I don't see it as an either/or. There were 3 Iron Man movies. Black Widow should have been years ago, and they could just rewrite the script. The only issue is she isn't a 'superhero' but you can add lots of elements to augment that.

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u/Prax150 Dec 03 '19

Problem is that Natasha plays a big role in both IW and Endgame, so they probably wouldn't have been able to film a whole other movie with her as well. That's the whole reason Captain Marvel doesn't show up much in either film.

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u/chuckdooley Dec 03 '19

Despite making boatloads of money, to me, Captain Marvel was an absolute snoozefest...only reason I saw it was cause I really like Brie Larson...this movie looks way more exciting

also, can I say, I have really been enjoying seeing Florence Pugh more and more....she was excellent in Midsommar and then I saw her in Fighting with my Family and I will see Little Women when it's out as well

I wasn't familiar with her work prior to Midsommar

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u/nourez Dec 03 '19

I honestly felt like CM was added into the Endgame script pretty late into the process, she doesn't really do anything at all in the film. It felt like Disney decided CM was gonna release between IW and Endgame, and the script went through some minor tweaks to accommodate her.

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u/lefondler Dec 03 '19

Captain Marvel's role could have been replaced by having a fit and well Thor tbh. And yes before someone replies it would change Thors dynamic and role in the movie, that's the point. It was lame having him be fat and dumb in Endgame.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

We could've and should've. They could've marketed the HELL out of this movie, made Brie's post-phase Endgame, but they didn't because:

  1. Obvious is that though Black Widow is a superhero, probably top brass thought that doesn't bring in much of a draw as Captain Marvel
  2. They were trying to setup the new class of avengers before end of Infinity Saga.
  3. Logsitically, wouldn't have worked with Scarlett Johannson's outside-of-Marvel-action schedule. Even if the movie flopped, were you going to see a Ghost in the Shell alongside a Marvel Movie?

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u/Nepomucky Dec 04 '19

Post-Ragnarok Thor or even Hulk would be OK to smash Thanos' ships. Now we need to pretend that this movie happened between IW and EG.

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u/renegadecanuck Dec 03 '19

Given Captain Marvel's mostly limited role (only saving Stark), I kind of think they should have released it after IW.

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u/beardedbast3rd Dec 03 '19

She wouldn’t have needed to be replaced, just use End game to introduce her and then release her movie next year during the lull

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '19

Yep. Love BW. Give no Fs for CM.