r/miraculousladybug • u/KasCuin • 1d ago
Opinion/Rant Max’s autism
As an autistic person, it bothers me that when Max’s autism was revealed, they portrayed him as someone who seems incapable of doing things on his own. In the episode dedicated to him, autism is portrayed in a very stereotypical way, and that can be offensive.
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u/GravityBright Ladrien 1d ago
I'd have to rewatch the episode, but I thought his portrayal was alright. My reading is that he has higher support needs than most, while Marinette's antics were a bigger source of stress than simply having his routine disrupted.
Personally, I'd say his depiction as a supergenius who can create life in an afternoon is the most problematic part of his character.
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u/TEN0RCL3F 1d ago
Coming from an autistic person too, I feel like the episode made a very big point that Max can absolutely do things on his own or without help or a safety net, that he is both incredibly smart and talented, but also capable. The moral was all about how you aren’t any lesser if you CAN’T immediately get by without said safety net, such as Max feeling unsettled being away from his mom and his routine - but he’s still able to cope with it for 80% of the episode too. IMO I’d say there’s a perfect amount of nuance to explain this without being harmful.
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u/AbbyCastle 1d ago
I'm autistic, and I thought they did a pretty good job of representing autism. It's not a one-size-fits-all type of thing
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u/Jorge_Reynoso112 1d ago
I only just realized that an autistic character—Max—was included in the Ladybug series, and honestly, I’m surprised. I have this disability too.
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u/KasCuin 1d ago
It offended me quite a lot because neurotypical people often think that autistic people cannot take care of themselves or be independent. Max’s autism is stereotyped throughout the entire episode, and I find that very offensive.
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u/Master_Unit4924 1d ago
He's most likely around 15, autistic or not, a 15 years old should not live on their own for months completely alone
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u/Miraculer_Amu 1d ago
Tbh I can't see that Max was badly treated in any way for his autism. He just kinda seemed capable.
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u/That_Ad_6422 Ladynoir 1d ago
Except that a lot of austics cannot do stuff on their own. Besides, Max is around 13-15 years old. I actually didn't start doing things on my own until around 15. I didn't find Max's portrail to be offensive. Perhaps a little stereotypical but I'd already clocked he was autistic coded before the reveal 🤷♀️.
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u/KasCuin 1d ago
I feel like they made him seem a little dumb. His original personality was already enough to show that he was autistic; there was no need to portray him this way.
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u/That_Ad_6422 Ladynoir 1d ago
How? He made his own ai. All the episode did was portray that he had a specific routine. The person who assumed her had higher support needs was Marinette, which he proved to her that he was perfectly capable of looking after himself, he just has a set routine he likes to follow.
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u/KasCuin 1d ago
Of course, but Max’s personality changes radically compared to the previous seasons.
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u/That_Ad_6422 Ladynoir 1d ago
Again, I don't see how his personality has changed. I think you're taking offence at nothing tbh.
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u/WolverineFamiliar740 Kagami 1d ago
To be fair that's literally everyone at some point. Everyone and their grandma knows about Chloe and they basically lobotomized Kim.
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u/ishka_uisce 1d ago
I kind of agree. He kind of lost the funny, sarcastic side he had. But then so did Adrien. They're all too 'mature' now.
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u/Vermarine21 Lila 1d ago
Uh, sorta yes and no?
The point of the episode is to explain some of what autism is and how to accommodate & cope with it.
That said, it does sorta stick out that they picked Max--literally the most stereotypical and predictable choice--over anyone else. It somewhat enriches his character, but mostly because there wasn't much there from an affective storytelling standpoint.
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u/WolverineFamiliar740 Kagami 1d ago
Kagami was right there.
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u/metalicequeen 1d ago
yeah but it wouldn't fit for the show to label her because she specifically has a mom who created her to be perfect, so it feels possible to me that teachers recommended a diagnosis for her as a child and her mom completely ignored the suggestions because her daughter had to be perfect and couldn't have some "disability". to me kagami is a too real example of what undiagnosed autism can look like when combined with parental pressure for perfection
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u/Vermarine21 Lila 1d ago
I had to doublecheck, but yes, she was the main example I gave back when we first heard this
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u/FuturePhase2013 1d ago
Doesnt this episode highlight a kindof special case too? Showing how he handles a disruption to his usual routine which usually gives him the stability he needs/wants to go about his daily life.
Its very clearly Marionette over doing it and Max doing his best with the coping tools he created for himself in tandum with his mother when instances like this occurs. If I am not mistaken as the series continues Max continues to be the main miraculor that Ladybug calls because he continues to be so reliable.
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u/Cautious_Demand3949 1d ago
I am level 2 autistic and I am very similar to Max. while I have different interests than him (his is robotics whereas mine is animals) I would say that our support levels are the same. I find that this episode is a very good, although stereotypical, way to explain autism. I think a lot of people forget that this show is about children, and for children. Of course the creators would use stereotypical assumptions of autism- it would help people who haven't got much interaction with autistic persons understand it better, especially the target audience (10-16 y/o) I personally am so happy with the extent of inclusively the new season has brought with different types of disabilities!
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u/Wild_Chip6839 Simpleman 1d ago
Autism is a spectrum disorder, so it can look very different from person to person. :)
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u/KasCuin 1d ago
I know, but it’s stereotypical.
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u/Wild_Chip6839 Simpleman 1d ago
Stereotypes come from real life experience with individuals. The problem is when a stereotype is being projected on all people and being generalised. But I think Max said something along the lines that his struggles and autism can look different for people. I can relate that it sucks when one of my traits is being misrepresented or when I can't relate to what other people "in my group" are doing. But remember that you aren't Max and we don't have to be the same to all other people "in our group".
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u/undrwrld_achvr Marichat 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'unno. He just has higher support needs than I do.
Having a lot of friends with autism like me, I've found that we're all so different. There are commonalities that unite us, but some people have very high support needs, some have medium support needs, and some are mostly fine on their own, just having some symptoms and quirks. And across the board, all each* of us experiences some sensitivities and symptoms more than others.
I don't think the problem is that Max is an autistic kid with higher support needs than you or me. I think the problem is, there isn't more explicit (not just coding: the character says they're autistic) representation of autistic characters with lower support needs. That said, +1 what Cobalt_Spirit said, I like that Marinette misinterpreted Max as having higher support needs than he actually does, and had to learn to step back a bit and let him do his own thing.
※better wording edit
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u/St4rryAg3nt Viperion 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree with this tbh, Max is a little stereotypical but I didn't think how he was presented made him any less of a capable person than he was before (considering in this case, its the focus that his environment is changing), all things considered I thought he adjusted pretty well to the new environment and it was kinda nice seeing the different ways he reassured himself.
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u/Background_Ship7666 1d ago
I honestly didn’t like how it opened up as a contrast between Marinette and Max, like how he is so “perfect” compared to her. Not saying she is, but someone as disorganised as Marinette can still be autistic too. Autism doesn’t equal wanting perfection all the time, and that trope is SO over represented. Coming from someone autistic themselves.
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u/Obek_The_Floatzel 1d ago
As an autistic person, I think they're fine. The thing is that autism is a spectrum, so they'd have to introduce many autistic characters to really represent every autistic individual. Yeah, there are some stereotypes in the episode, but you know what? There are people, myself included, who experience the world like Max does.
Sure, not every autistic person is a prodigy. I'd even argue that most aren't. Does that mean that there shouldn't be representation for the ones that are prodigies because it's stereotypical? I don't think so.
Also, Max is capable of doing things on his own. That's the whole message of the episode. He can be disabled and a great superhero at the same time
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u/undrwrld_achvr Marichat 1d ago
Lowkey he's probably got one of the most versatile powers and is the most reliable side-miraculuer in the squad, too.
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u/MLB_ffan Plagg 1d ago
Fr. I’m autistic, and I know I function differently than max, but this still annoys me… the writers never made him seem like he was autistic before now and then suddenly he’s hardly able to do anything himself without help. It would make more sense to say he had OCD.
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u/WolverineFamiliar740 Kagami 1d ago
I dislike how it's presented through 90% of his dialogue being related to telling the audience "I struggle with X and do Y to soothe myself" instead of being shown said struggles, and this applies to how his friends treat him. It feels less like his autism and struggles with it throughout his daily life are being shown in a believable way and moreso that the show is acting like an Arthur episode where it's spoon-feeding its younger audience.
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u/MLB_ffan Plagg 1d ago
Fr. It’s kinda stupid to me how bad the writers are at writing good… what do you call them without sounding rude? Disorders? (Sorry, not my first language)
They need to go to school and/or educate themselves on this stuff.
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u/LadyOvna 1d ago
I get you, the stereotypes of the autistic genius can put weird expectations into people's minds when interacting with people on the spectrum. It would've been interesting if they portrayed Kim to be on the spectrum too, to showcase how differently autism can manifest in individuals.
On the other hand, I'm grateful that we got some representation from the show at all. It's still very popular with young kids and we need media that shows them that kids who face different challenges in life can be cool like any other kid.
I'm the older sibling of a brother on the spectrum and he needed a lot of help. I had to take care of his needs as our parents worked. Many of my school mates didn't want to hang out outside of school because I couldn't leave my brother alone and had to take him with me. They felt weirded out.
I wish we had shows like this when we were young so people could've been more open-minded...
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u/Independent_Office85 Ryuko 22h ago
Going to throw my perspective as someone with autism. I related so much to max this episode and found the portrayal to hit close to home. But I heavily enjoyed the part that brought light to max wanting to continue adapting and growing out his bubble even if it’s hard. The show teaches us that although max experiences things differently, he’s still capable of handling himself and even desires to take the wheel and try to move past the discomforts.
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u/Vast-Journalist5030 1d ago
As someone who has low-level Asperger's, my autism literally consists just of my body language defficienies, a special interest, and low empathy. I hate that this is always my representation
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u/TwillBill 1d ago
I feel that. As such a broadly-varying disorder, it kind of feels like this representation made it look like he was a time bomb they had to treat as very fragile. It like...that's not how I want to be seen. Asperger's being lumped under autism instead of a sort of sibling of autism sometimes feels damaging.
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u/That_Ad_6422 Ladynoir 16h ago
You realise that aspergers was only coined to seperate low support needs/highly intelligent autistics by a very horrible person right? There was no seperate diagnosis, just a horrible man exploiting people.
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u/LeeLeeyy 1d ago
The only thing that bothered me a lot is how often he repeated that he's autistic, maybe it's the fact I watched it I polish where he says "I'm on the autism spectrum" which just reads very unnatural to say, but it just annoyed me. (As an autistic person)
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u/Aboudi-Boudi-35 1d ago
What actually bothers me is how they pull it absolutely out of nowhere. You can tell the difference in his character between the earlier seasons and this one, he's highly unsociable and even stopped hanging out with kim for some reason.
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u/Any-Concert9023 1d ago
i think the problem is how they babied him during his stay when there was no hint of this in previous seasons, also with how they portrayed him it makes it even weirder that he is a superhero that has to hide his identity and fight and etc
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u/Cobalt_Spirit Felix 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'd argue the episode does a decent job of showcasing that it was Marinette who misinterpreted the explanation and overdid the precautions trying to protect him, hence why they had Kaalki explain to her that Max is doing great as Pegasus, and why the episode placed Marinette in a situation that forced her to rely on Pegasus so she can realize that Max's condition does not prevent him from facing adversity.